Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Slew — Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:13:51 GMT

Tim G...while I usually find your observations quite astute...this time you knocked down every one else's ideas, but did not contribute your concepts. What will bring more fans back to horse racing?

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

jimmy redneck — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:21:03 GMT

Wow, I'm sorry I wasted my time reading this blog. Sounds like someone is trying to startup a fantasy horseplayers league. It'll never work. Back to the drawing board. Better luck next hallucination.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Tim G — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 15:04:43 GMT

Dani, actually tv threw some ideas out there.

As for sitting on the couch criticizing? I don't want to put you down because you are a diehard fan. But at this point in time? You are someone sitting on the sidelines and criticizing, throwing out ideas to a business that you have no practical experience in.

As someone said come back in 10 years and give us some ideas. Once you have your degree, some practical experience in the game and see how the racing game actually operates.

It's a myriad of complex issues particularly on the financial and business side of it.

Otherwise you're doing what you accuse others of. Just throwing ideas out that don't really have any viability in THIS particular business.

You know how you say you don't like your teachers etc telling you how to do everything? Imagine how some of us who are successful business people, successful in horse racing feel about others who have ZERO practical experience in our business, telling us how to run it. Frankly that's what has us in a mess right now. The MBA's with no experience in the sport, trying to run tracks, run organizations that set up rules and try to promote a game they know nothing about. Trying to reach a segment of the population they have no understanding of.

Apply the theory to your own life and I think you'll see you don't like it.

I can tell you from someone who has been in this business for decades? Your idea will never fly. It's an approach to make the game fun for fans. It doesn't address the real issues we have.

The main problem right now regarding the handle is the economy. The viewer numbers were up for the first two legs of the TC but even our former representation NTRA is saying they don't feel TV is the future of racing. Now I don't know if I completely agree but viewers don't increase handle or raise purses unless I'm missing something.

The issues we have regarding ADW, simulcast, purse reductions due to lower handles, increased takeout on the handle that doesn't benefit racing per se, the loss of owners, low numbers of horses, decrease in racing dates? NONE of that revolves around fans with a team to cheer for.

All the concerts, free t-shirts and so on may increase attendance but its proven that it doesn't increase the handle which like it or not is what this game is all about.

Tell me with your proposal, how many people would be interested in 'teams' that didn't include high profile horses? So the little guy will be even more forgotten than they are now?

Horse racing would be even more elitist than people think it is now.

Do you see any upper middle class or middle class people owning sports teams? No, the owners are the richest of the rich. Do you see a group of 30 average people owning one player? No, that only happens in horse racing.

The long term situation just isn't there in racing. Longevity to a racetracker is 8 years of age for a horse so theoretically 7 years on the track. Probably 3 of those in their prime. What sports star has such a short term career?

It's just a plan that doesn't work in this business and to me a waste of energy when we have so many CRITICAL issues facing us. Please believe me when I say that a team concept will not work, would not be accepted, would have no real benefit and wouldn't do anything towards resolving the issues we have.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Slew — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 13:16:40 GMT

TV Newsbadge...hmmm a business man buying a sports franchise and running it into the ground? Like Jerry Jones or George Steinbrenner? I don't think they've done badly at all.

It would appear to me that there already are teams (stables) in horse racing...like Juddmonte and Zayat. Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't. I'm afraid the concept of teams is just not a viable business measure when it's the individual horse that accomplishes the most. I do believe that what we may need to borrow from teams like the the NFL is the promotional and advertising aspects. HRTV has some great ads for racing that have yet to be telecast nationally. If you don't have HRTV, you don't even know they exist...pitiful. Let the racing commission buy some time on ESPN or ABC or NBC. "The grand slam in the bottom of the 9th...the buzzer beater..

..etc...have nothing on the photo finish" with the sight and sounds of horses thundering down the track as a backdrop. Bigger and better promotions got NASCAR nationally televised...and they started out as bootleggers outrunning the Feds.

As far as a point system...I think too many committees will simply get bogged in too many suggestions to come to any final decision of how many points to ascribe to which race.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

LDP — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 03:19:15 GMT

TV,

When you decide to come out and give me a biography on yourself and actually post something that is constructive instead of putting everything everyone posts down, then I might just tell you who this person is. The only thing you'll get right now is that they are a small business, in one of the hardest markets there is today.

A business is a business and the main thing for any business to do is to attract customers. Every sport is a business with the fans as it's customers. If you don't have customers you sink, it's that simple. Right now racing is losing customers and interest, which means sooner or later racing will die off. So please if you have any words of constructive use, please lets here them. Until then, you are only one of those people who likes to shoot down every idea thrown up, until someone actually does something that starts to work. Then you'll back it up and say "you were there from the begining." At least I'm putting something out there to be considered, I'd rather be that than the person who rest on their couch criticizing, because they have no ideas themselves.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Tim G — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 03:05:43 GMT

Horse racing is not now or will it ever be a 'team sport'. Too much money that people who share the same 'coach' are shooting at.

Horse racing people are individualists, the last of the breed, the loner. Like my trainer said, he doesn't want a 'real' job.

Also with the longevity of a horse, the cost, you really can't count on large numbers of owners being around for the decades that owners of professional sports teams are.

Choose your favorite trainer and go with him/her. That's really the only constant with great longevity.

I run an excellent, successful business in a medical field. Don't ask me to run Microsoft though. It'd be broke in a month.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Robert — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 02:52:31 GMT

You're comparing apples to oranges. The sports you are talking about are NOTHING like horse racing.

Look at how it is structured for heavens sakes, what drives and finances it.

Someone on the outside looking in has NO idea what drives the game financially and from a business perspective. Just like I don't know how a business so far removed from my own would operate.

Why do you think people have 'chosen' fields?

As for racing? Why do you think people hire racing managers or bloodstock agents or trainers?

Unless you're born into the game or have been around learning for a long time it's unlike any business I've ever known.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Alex JM — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 02:43:59 GMT

My sentiments exactly tv.

How many successful businessmen have come into racing and lost their shirts, are in bankruptcy?

The really astute ones like WT Young, Bob Lewis and that ilk are few and far between. Very difficult to transition from one business to the other.

Plus I'm not sure LDP listens to ANYONE. Get back with us in 10 years with all of these thoughts.

It's great to dream but dreams can be disastrous in this business.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

tvnewsbadge — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 02:34:21 GMT

LDP says "These ideas actually were brought to my attention by someone with business experience and owns there own business, and runs quite a successful business."

Well then, name the business so we see how relevant the model you are using is to horse racing.

Look at how many very successful businessmen buy sports teams and then run them into the ground.

Because run a successful Taco Bell does not mean he can train Secretariat.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Alex JH — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 01:36:20 GMT

Like everyone is trying to tell you LDP, you cannot compare a sport that is built on gambling to any other sport which offers gambling as a sidelight but doesn't base it's entire industry on that.

Just as a lot of people have tried to tell you racing isn't really isn't a sport in the true sense it's a business and NO two businesses are alike. Someone who is successful in one business may not make it in another. It all depends on what it takes to make THAT specific business a success, it's not one size fits all.

You're trying to tell owners and trainers that in order to succeed they have to take all of the risk and expect no reward. We'll quit first. I don't spend around $40,000 per horse per year to keep you entertained.

Romanticize it all you want but, as much as I love the beauty of racing and honor that? If we can't make money we cannot survive.

Like the guy said about the economy? That is THE singular thing which has us struggling to survive. No job, no money= no gambling. Reduced dates, reduced purses, less owners, less trainers and less horses.

In all sports you are talking about, i.e. NFL, MLB etc, you have a team owner. You have that same owner who is in charge of everything, even sometimes owning the stadium.

They own ALL the players on the team, they control the purse strings for the ENTIRE team AND for the COACH. Unless you can come up with a 'coach' for each team owner in racing? This would never work.

Each owner, trainer and jockey are their own sub-contractors. NONE of them are on a scale salary. The help may be but it's all predicated on how many horses each trainer can get or how many mounts each jock can get.

When you don't have salaried employees and when the owners can only make money from the purses or gambling? It becomes much more of a fight for our lives than NFL,NHL, MLB etc could ever be.

Want to be like NASCAR? Start charging patrons $200-1500 per race day (any race day, not just the biggies) share a cut of the gate with the horsemen. Make sure that horsemen don't have to fight for every single piece of the pie.

The take out on the handle, the simulcast issues, the need to keep our stars on the track, the need for a head of racing who isn't out for himself and who knows how to promote, sell and create uniformity? Those things are what we need to be looking at.

Not some off the wall proposal that will make racing 'fun' for kids.

It sounds very much like the BC video game the BC came out with a few years ago. You want that? Buy the game.

The only way a point system would work is for the HOY. However with the NTRA becoming so weak and less relevant every day I just don't believe the Eclipse awards will be carried forward by the DRF and NTWA. A lot of the NTWA members are either abstaining or not renewing their memberships which allows them to vote.

However, you and a number of 'fans' on here seem to place far more importance on that title than the average every day horseman.

We need more than 4 or 5 horses as our stars, we don't need people beating up on the few stars we have and for all of you saying a TC winner will fix it all? Get real.

We need to make changes, but your proposal definitely isn't one that we need to consider.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

LDP — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:13:47 GMT

Alex,

High School? I believe the NFL and NBA also are set up with teams, team owners, coaches. Yes we are 1mil miles away, from the general public and from the success those sports currently have.

These ideas actually were brought to my attention by someone with business experience and owns there own business, and runs quite a successful business. So please, if you want to insult a business that is successful then be my guest.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

LDP — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:09:17 GMT

UCLinden,

The points would be reset each year, so yes, the only points that would count towards a specific event, like the TC would be those points amassed that year. I don't like how the graded earnings system allows the earnings from the previous year come into play. A lot can happen over a year, form wise. I think if we are to have a point system or an earnings system, like now, it should only inclued the points or earnings from THAT year.

I was going to go into assigning each race points, but thought that would make the post a bit too wordy.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

LDP — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 17:27:16 GMT

TV,

I do want attention, that means people will read and then think about what other things can be done. These kinds of things get other people to think, they get the wheels in the brain to turn and click. That is the objective. I put out ideas, you can critise, tweak, put out your own ideas, that is what this blog is meant to do.

This sturcture is not just based on baseball but other sports as well. Personally I think what racing should do is look at other sports, look at what is good about each and try and impliment them, while also looking at what is bad and staying away from that.

Rachel,

I personally am interested in the horses too, but unfortuently not everyone else is. Many people who do not know or particularly care for horses, do not just care about the horse and would like to see some of the human side too.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

UCLinden — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 17:10:31 GMT

I had suggested a point system a year or so ago; someone opened a window and out flew the idea ..LOL

One thing this article did not discuss was the time period involved. My thought was the points would be accumulated from January 1 - December 31. Right now for the Triple Crown , horses qualify based on earnings.My idea was to try to eliminate early leg injuries. If you ran as a TWO year old, those points would NOT qualify towards Triple Crown,since my point system ran on a yearly basis, NO carry over of points.

Just as every horse has their birthday in January , every horse starts with ZERO points come January 1st.

I had also mentioned how I would assign points for each graded stakes race

Grade 1 Race ... 1st place 20 points , 2nd place 15 points , 3rd place 10 points , 4th place 5 points

Grade 2 Race ... 1st place 15 points. 2nd place 10 points , 3rd place 5 points , 4th place 3 points

Grade 3 Race .... 1st place 10 points, 2nd place 5 points , 3rd place 2 points, 0 points for 4th

You need an idea to start ... you build upon that idea.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

mike — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:45:00 GMT

Limiting the derby field is stupid, Mine that Bird wouldn't have made it. Its the dream to run in and maybe win the derby. The biggest problem in horse racing is marketing, and horses not running enough. Market the excitement, atmosphere and top horses, but those top horses have to run enough to stay relevant. Tracks need to cut dates to have bigger fields, occasional fans aren't going to go or get excited for a field of 5 NY bred mdns.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Alex JM — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:57:52 GMT

Can we tell this is a person with no experience in the business world let alone the horse world?

There is too much money involved, too much at stake for the investors to pander to the wishes of someone wanting to turn this into a High School Sports team.

Everyone has been told over and over this is NOT like baseball, not like football. It's a million miles away from those sports.

Work on forming a debate team in college. Leave the high finance to those who are in it.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Sharon — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:58:57 GMT

Teams? No way!

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Robin from Maryland — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 01:45:57 GMT

Limit the Derby field to fourteen, but keep everything else the same. What horse racing needs most is a TC winner. Breeding more soundness in would help - not just because one is "pretty". Just my two cents, not worth much.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

tvnewsbadge — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 01:00:27 GMT

But have you checked the status of baseball lately?

Hardly the mainstream sport it once was.

I mean this will all due repecxt, but these proposals seem to be aimed more at getting attention or as the writer puts it

" Well, last blog certainly drew a crowd; let’s see what kind of reviews I get for this one."

It certainly can't be taken seriously on any other level.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Rita — Mon, 21 Jun 2010 23:13:05 GMT

It is true a few little simple things need to be changed such as the voting on the horses at the end of the year.I think for racing as a whole not that much is wrong. The problem is the economy and advertising.If the economy gets better for regular people to go to races and bet without feeling gulity for spending the money instead of buyiny food or paying a bill would help. Also more advertising to try to get new fans in would be good. I live in Georgia and I read the county of Gwinnett paper everyday. Yesterday there was a piece in the paper about Lady Shakespear won a race in New York. I couldn't believe it. They wrote one story on the Belmont one of the Triple Crown races, very important and then they come up with this horse and race I did not even know or had I heard of this filly. There is a big failure to communicate out there. Nothing ever about Zenyatta and Rachel the two most popular horses out there today it's just wrong no promotion, no races and no fans.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

sarcsm1 — Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:39:31 GMT

Really? No. First get a National controlling board. 2nd nationalize medication rules etc. Then do what they do at football games etc. Where are the cheerleaders between races? Bands? Bring out celebs for autographs more. Theme days like beach party or black and white colors day with prizes for best etc.

Beer girls, tip girls, free picks from jockeys etc. Promote party groups for young groups. Advertize on a channel other then horseracing. Have car shows, gun shows, beerfests, etc there. How 'bout electronic shows? get apple to do a demo day? Jockey competitions? Com'on, every 20something can't thing of a new thing to do on the weekends, but bars are full. Wet t-shirt contests, beauty contests for fans, putting contests, barbeque contests, batting cages, picnic tables.

I see big empty rooms at all racetracks and people standing but no place to sit. More hightops with chairs. Seats on the apron. Days when people wanted to stand are OVER! PUT CHAIRS!!

Just a few random thoughts.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

LDP — Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:31:33 GMT

Bob,

Would you care to elaborate?

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Rachel — Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:55:08 GMT

Why must there be an equal number of 3-year-olds compared to older horses in the Distaff and Classic? what if there aren't 7 quality 3 year-olds and there are more than 7 older horses? Especially the Classic, where both sexes can potentially run...

Teams will never impress me...it's the horse and only the horse that interests me.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

David — Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:20:42 GMT

You’re correct change really does need to happen. The problem is almost every reform element is predicated on something almost impossible.

Let’s take just one example. The Triple Crown is arguably the industry’s greatest asset in terms of marketing to a non-user market. By most accounts the series is increasing vulnerable due to the reality that a TC winner is no longer in the cards. One possible solution could be to re-cast US two and three-year-olds graded stakes. Let’s say 1) graded TC prep races from May 1st through June 1st of the following year will be established by an industry committee, 2) all races will be “open”, no longer carded as restricted colt/filly events, 3) seven furlongs will be the minimum distance that grades are awarded, 4) two races at 1 1/4 will be set prior to the Derby and one slated in the two week following, 5) priority will be issued to nominated horses’ success (win, place or show) in races at a mile and one eighth or longer, 6) additional preference tie-breakers for entry into the three races will include total lifetime starts.

Fantasy you say? Yes and unfortunately, that is precisely the point. In order to affect any purposeful change in racing as we know it today – standardizing of medication, rules/regulations, betting menus, etc.; aggregation of funds to institute purposeful promotion; safety standards for surfaces, rails, whips, work-out regiments, etc.; consolidation of a trade video (television and streaming) backed by a single-purposed account wagering system; reform to an otherwise broken pricing system; etc., etc., etc. – an otherwise dysfunction, fragmented business would somehow have to be magically transformed into something else. Good luck on that one.

re: Change Needs to Happen: Part 2

Mike in SB — Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:03:28 GMT

Interesting idea about teams. There needs to be some way to get the best horses to compete on the track, today there is no structure to the schedule or incentive for the owners to race against other top horses. We need something like the old Championship Racing Series from the 1990's, a series of races leading to the Breeders Cup with points awarded for results on the track. The horse with the most points at the end of the year gets a nice bonus and is the champion.