Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

stymie — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 00:24:02 GMT

ANy body know of the record o f NY trainer Phil Bieber brother of Izzy Bieber ofthe famed Beiber-Jaobs stable and o fhis life He died in 1981

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

Rob from Bmore — Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:16:31 GMT

Any story on Hirsh Jacobs brings to my mind that a horse can improve in someone else's barn if the new horseman or woman are truly capable of understanding what makes the horse tick. It is truly sad that medications inflict questions as to whether a horse improved because of drugs or just straight-out horsemanship. I like to see the horse trainers take their time and bring out the best in competitiveness in a horse.

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

sid fernando — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:11:34 GMT

To Teresa and Horseguy:

Searching did run at 2, and the American Produce records reflects this: note that it states she raced 5 seasons, although she only won stakes at 3,4,5,6.

Searching was also a great producer: SWs Affectionately, Admiring, and Priceless Gem (dam of the great Allez France).

Searching's half-sister Allemande produced SW Marking Time, dam of SW Relaxing, dam of Easy Goer --- all of tme for Phipps.

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

marc W — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:08:49 GMT

Although this idea that I have had for a long time doesn't always hold true--------Do you notice on the whole---I know there are exceptions and that other things come into play----that horses trained by people that are unusually hot for certain periods don't do well in the breeding shed?

This topic notes that Phipps sold her----He has had arguably the best bred horses on earth for a while. The fact that she turned out a good broodmare would not be a shock. For what it is worth I doubt in her case it was drugs anyway, but I have no doubt some are taking big edges when trainers like Van Berg or other HOF inductees you look for horses to be claimed/bought off them and improve.

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

Horseguy — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:21:34 GMT

Teresa, She did not win just any stakes but some of the most important then and today. My point a bit off topic was in the amount of money she made in 5 races just by placing and not in any stakes. Shows how much stronger the purses were back then.

Wista, I think you are being a bit unrealistic if you think that performance drugs were not in use back then. In fact it would have been far easier to get away with. Cost effective and broad testing only came about in recent years.

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

Teresa at Brooklyn Backstretch — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 12:37:36 GMT

Just to be clear: I was comparing situations, not trainers, with no intention of imagining anything other than the way Searching's change in form would be discussed today.

Horseguy: Searching won multiple stakes races over several years. I didn't check the American Produce Records, but several other sources (listed above) all indicate that she did in fact run at two. I can't account for the discrepancy.

Thanks for your comments.

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

wista — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 15:11:28 GMT

Any attempt to compare Hirsch Jacobs to the"pharmacists" on today's racetracks is absurd.

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

Horseguy — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 00:04:21 GMT

Though $15,000 does not sound like much money for a filly that was second 5 times it does equate to over $118,000 in today's dollars. Though she was a half sister to several stakes winners the most notable being Bridal Flower a major stakes winning filly who unfortunately for Mr. Phipps was only able to produce a minor stakes horse from 6 foals. There were 7 other fillies out of her dam Big Hurry. Only No Fiddling a none winner became a producer of note. That being Straight Deal a major stakes winning filly and the dam of several good stakes winner and the granddam of many. I if my memory servers me I don't believe Mr. Phipps was the benefactor of any of their efforts. Interestingly Searching's placed winnings of $22,650 would equate to over $173,000 in today's dollars! I don't believe any of her placing were in stakes. Says a lot for the purses back then. For some reason the American Produce Records does not have her running at 2. So who's correct?

I would have to say that Stymie is the greatest claim of all time. $1,500 in today's money would be around $13,000. His winnings of $918.485 would be $7,253,129 in today's dollars!

The author of Seabiscuit states that he was "bought for the paltry sum of $6,500". She fails to take into account that this was at the height of the Depression and that would be the same as over $99,000 today. At the time of purchase I am sure the sellers thought that the horse was WELL sold based on his race record.

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

geober42 — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 19:34:20 GMT

Thanks for the story Teresa.

But as an oldtimer, there's no way I can allow you to mention Hirsch Jacobs and that current trainer in the same breath.

Hirsch Jacobs is one of the greatest horsemen who ever lived. To learn that, all you have to do is look at the record books -- he's the only horsemen who at one time or another during his career was the leading breeder, leading owner and leading trainer in the country.

His work with Stymie and Searching certainly stands out, but he performed similar feats with a myriad of horses through the years. He's one of our great Hall of Fame members.

As for the current group of horse-saddlers, the less said the better.

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

Teresa at Brooklyn Backstretch — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:59:52 GMT

Thanks, folks, for reading and sharing your stories. I didn't know anything about Sea Pigeon--thank you for passing it on--

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

Bellwether — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 04:22:38 GMT

WOW!!!...the stories in this great game are endless & believe me AMERICA wants to & will hear them all before we are through...Horse Racing is the best kept secret in AMERICA!!!...the REintroduction & education of T-BRED racing...HORSE RACING WON Oh! WON!!!(tm)...brought to you by BELLWETHER PRODUCTIONS of VIRGINIA...Long Live The King!!!

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

Kateinabox — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 00:43:58 GMT

Sure there are always horses make a sudden turn around...but what was the likely hood that Jacobs was juicing his horses? I have no idea when steroids and other performance altering medications started entering into the sport. I have read that even the mighty Secretariat had some meds... so at least by the early 70s. Dutrow has had too many violations and has admitted it. No matter who he trains in the future... the better they perform the more people will doubt him. That footnote will stick with him forever.

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

Abbie Knowles — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 23:59:53 GMT

Well maybe some horses just react better to a certain environment!

My all time favourite dual purpose horse Sea Pigeon(USA), was good but inconsistent for Jeremy Tree, he was seventh in the 1970 Epsom Derby won by Morston. Very good for Gordon Richards (northern English trainer not Sir Gordon Richards the jockey) but only absolutely brilliant when transferred to Peter Easterby in Yorkshire. Am sure there were many factors which led to his becoming such a pre eminent handicapper (he won the Ebor under 10 stone, 2 Chester Cups etc.)in the UK and one of the best hurdlers ever (twice winner of the Champion Hurdle at Cheltenham) but think he liked where he was trained, who he was trained by, his team and his riders! Mark Birch did a lot to help him learn to settle better!

Sea Pigeon was a fantastic horse, very intelligent and he certainly made those who called him rude names eat their words by the time he retired age 12 in 1982 as the winner of 35 races. He won a race at 2 ridden by Lester Piggott and his second Champion Hurdle aged 11 ridden by John Francome! I had the joy of being at Cheltenham to see his triumph and he knew that he had won and the crowd went wild with happiness!!!

Sea Pigeon(USA) was my favourite hurdler from age 4 onwards, which was from the moment I saw him win the Shoveller Novice Hurdle at Newcastle! As with Seattle Slew it was love at first sight and he never let me down either!

Sea Pigeon died age 30 and is buried near Peter Easterby's yard with his stable companion Night Nurse, also a dual Champion hurdle winner. Great horses both, but Sea Pigeon reigns supreme in my heart where hurdlers are concerned and always will!

I really enjoyed reading about Searching so many thanks! Enjoyed reminiscing about Sea Pigeon too!

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

re: Reversal of Fortune: Hirsch Jacobs's Searching

Tiznowbaby — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 19:11:51 GMT

You could add Seabiscuit to that list. Though he wasn't a non-winner like Searching, he did not reach his full potential until he was moved to the barn of Tom Smith.