Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Soldier Course — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 02:23:23 GMT

Doesn't Jay Robbins have the kindest face you've ever seen?

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Soldier Course — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 23:51:04 GMT

Amateurcapper:

Tiznow is just gorgeous. I have seen him four times at WinStar since 2006.

The first time we were scheduled on a horse farm van tour on the Sunday after Derby. When we arrived at the van, the tour guide told us that the rest of the people had cancelled. We had about 4 wonderful hours of a custom "private tour" thanks to the good humor and generosity of our guide.

Our most memorable stop was at WinStar to see Tiznow. He was brought out of his stall, and I gave him a kiss. He loves people and likes to watch everything that's going on. That's why he has the stall door that allows him to hang his head out. I don't think there's a more beautiful horse in Central Kentucky.

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Amateurcapper — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:33:17 GMT

Soldier Course,

Thnaks so much for your comments...I enjoy the banter.

That was a strange year for TIZNOW but champions show up on the biggest stage...he certainly did!

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Soldier Course — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 03:38:24 GMT

Amateurcapper:

Thanks for the link to the video of Jay Robbins visiting Tiznow at WinStar. This led to my viewing (for the umpteenth time!) the video of Tiznow's 2001 BC Classic, with the very moving pre-race feature with Jay Robbins. Like Tom Durkin said immediately after the race, Tiznow was the "forgotten horse" in the run-up to the Classic that year.

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Matthew W — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 03:28:22 GMT

Amatuercapper The story has been written! It was signed by the twinkle in Tiznow's eye at the finish line, 2001! The "story is written"...I just interprit what it was I saw....

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Soldier Course — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 00:35:41 GMT

Amateurcapper:

I too love the "top ..." books and lists. They are great for debates and reflection.

Funny thing, if the vote could have been taken again the very next day, I would wager a different result would have come about.

Won't belabor my point about Tiznow, but still ...

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Amateurcapper — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:10:50 GMT

MINDY C.

Alert: COLONEL JOHN is running Friday in the Wickerr S. at Del Mar, his first on turf.

Alert #2: WELL ARMED is heavily favored in the G.2 San Diego H. on Sunday at Del Mar.

AFFIRMED4EVER,

Love that handle...he's the one that hooked me back in 1978.

Check out this video (www.youtube.com/watch)...don't get too close!

MDFANOFRACING,

RAGS TO RICHES is actually by A.P. INDY, not the GIANT.

MATTHEW W.,

Wanna co-write the TIZNOW STORY?

SOLDIER COURSE,

My point was that the top 100 was just the opinion of the bloodhorse staff...while they are super-knowledgeable and my preferred source for horse racing news, their opinions of the top moments may or may not be representative of all horse racing enthusiasts. Personally, I love books like that...whether I agree or don't, it certainly gets the old brain working!

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Amateurcapper — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 06:41:41 GMT

KAYTE,

Cee's Tizzy is already 21 so his stud fee ($7,500) is probably about right. He's a California sire but I agree, he's had some national success...besides TIZNOW, he also sired GOURMET GIRL, Champion Older Female of 2001.

Note that his G.3 winning son LUCKY J. H. entered stud in '09 and may take some of the market away from his sire.

I'm gonna be watching for TIZBUD's (one of many full sibs to TIZNOW) 2y.o son TIZ BALACHI hails from a female family that produced multiple G.1 winner SEA CADET ($1.8 million), G.2 winner ON TARGET ($333k), SW/G.3 placed PAPER PRINCESS ($383k), MGSP EXETERA ($153k).

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Amateurcapper — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:03:25 GMT

MIKE S,

Great points...I believe that with all the money to be won at 2, owners/trainers rush their horses. However, I'll concede that starting a son of TIZNOW late in his/her 2y.o. season won't be too soon...but to expect that horse to be a KY Derby or KY Oaks contender may be rushin' it.

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Soldier Course — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 00:57:19 GMT

Amateurcapper:

Well, the whole book "Top 100 Moments" was an aggregate of opinions. We get that. Still, I can't fathom the #112 Honorable Mention from the panel.

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Mike S — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:06:41 GMT

I am still trying to figure out how GIANT'S CAUSEWAY has a 2.09 AEI while TIZNOW has a 1.94 AEI, according to the Jockey Club, when their average earnings are about $69,000 versus $87,000.

Even more peculiar is how their average earnings per runner was $65,000 and $73,000, respectively, just before WELL ARMED added $3.6 million to the total for TIZNOW and, at that time TIZNOW had a higher AEI than GIANT'S CAUSEWAY, and now it's reversed.

The Blood Horse, for some inexplicable reason, seems to have the numbers reflected much more accurately, as they have TIZNOW at 2.16 and GIANT'S CAUSEWAY at 2.00.

Weird stuff. Why would the Jockey Club and The Blood Horse have different AEI's?

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

MJ SMITH — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:14:59 GMT

I grew up reading my late Mother's copy of C.W. Anderson's Big Red. The first majestic illustration features Man o'War, head held high, surveying his domain [the world]. I love both Giant's Causeway [descendant of Secretariat] and the Great Tiznow, direct male line descendant of "the mostest hoss ever" [Man o'War]. The 01 BC Classic at Belmont was an unbelievable performance in the shadow of 911, which will move many of us for ever. I was fortunate to meet Tiznow Sept. '04. He took my breath away-standing in his stall, head held high, surveying his domain, the handsome dark image of his great ancestor! Thanks to Winstar for graciously hosting this high point of a lifetime for me. We are thrilled that Tiznow is becoming such a notable sire. May they both live long..

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Amateurcapper — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:33:36 GMT

ASPRADLING,

The GIANT is a cool sire to follow...RED GIANT at more than 30-1 in the Virginia Derby last year most recently SWIFT TEMPER at 7-1 in the Delaware 'Cap this year. I'm afraid those scores will be harder to find.

JEN,

Stay in the U.S., there will be a plethora of long-distance grass horses for you to adore with the synthetic tracks seeming kinder to turf horses than dirt ever was.

MZ,

No doubt that TIZNOW has accomplished a lot in the breeding shed considering the book for a $30k stallion may not be littered with as many "black type" broodmares as GIANT'S CAUSEWAY had access to these last few years. Also, his books were probably 1/2 of GC so there were less chances for him to get a top class runner.

STEVE FROM ST. LOUIS,

Looks like I've got a little assistant somewhere...the AIDAN mistake has been corrected, not by me. So I won't win a prize...but maybe WAL's comment was meant as constructive criticism ;-)! No worries. RE: ROBBINS, maybe he needs an agent...are you up to the task? His skill certainly is a terrible thing to see go to waste!

JAJ,

Great stats to prove my earlier point to MZ.

RYANMOSELEY,

Great call on GHANAATI...that I didn't include her was a gross oversight! I'll certainly be looking for her run tomorrow.

LOVETHISGAME,

Thanks for such kind words...I'm honored to share your love for this great game. These horses run for our enjoyment, it's great to read how your pulse quickens when considering a great racehorse and productive stallion like TIZNOW. Like RYANMOSELEY reminded me in his comment, watch the SUSSEX S. and GHANAATI tomorrow...you'll love the game even more!!!

JOE,

I'd love to read more about your memories at the track...I'd always hoped these posts would lead to sharing experiences and opinions with racing lovers like you.

Stop over to my blog (it has the 2000 Classic embeded and is complete with typographical errors and incorrect syntax :-)!!!). You can link to other fantastic TBA blogs for your entertainment!

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Amateurcapper — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:01:35 GMT

As always, thanks for reading to all who commented. I really enjoy these cameos, no matter how "poorly written and lamentably edited" WAL NUSSBAUM thinks it was.

JUSTINE...TIZNOW is a great sire to put your loyalty on...I believe he's ready to take off as a stallion. His stud fee went up this year from $30k to $75k. He's going to attract higher class broodmares which will level the genetic playing field between TIZNOW and GIANT'S CAUSEWAY.

MATTHEW W,

The 2001 Classic was pretty good also...reigning HOY vs. the Arc winner SAKHEE.

DA3HOSS,

Thanks. Do you recall how difficult it was for ROBBINS to train TIZNOW in '01? It was touch and go whether he could get in enough work to be fit enough for the Classic.

PAT IN FLORIDA,

Who wins the race in the breeding shed?

KAREN IN INDIANA,

MR. HOT STUFF may wind up being a really good 4y.o. and a fantastic 5y.o. Trainer HARTY has said he's not as forward as COLONEL JOHN but may be more talented physically. Big bro is notorious for not holding his flesh after a big effort but li'l bro seems like he's yet to grow into his ample frame.

SOLDIER COURSE,

Rankings are just a matter of opinion...from reading these comments, a more representative vote would rank this race much higher.

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Matthew W — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:57:28 GMT

indeed, I believe Tiznow will be remembered, in story, decades form now! I think it has taken this long to realize just what that 2nd cup meant...two horses...not 100%....fighting for all there was.....I'm talking Tiznow and NYC....

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Matthew W — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:50:19 GMT

Hey Walt, know what I said when Tiznow raised his great "dinosaur head" to beat Sahkee, who had blown past the champion, by 3/4 length, with all the momentum, the FIVE LENGTH Arc winner Sahkee...Know what I said when Tiznow battled back, all 70 % of him, with that 110% heart...know what I said?...."CA CHING"!

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

mz — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:10:12 GMT

Hey Steve from St. Louis (btw, are you related to Ted from LA?): why do it the hard way? If we can talk the Blood Horse Staff into fining DN a couple of bucks for every time he refers to the 2009 Kentucky Derby winner without using his real name, with your $2 and my $2 and the couple of hundred thousands we would get from the fines, we would be in business for the November sales for sure....or maybe even the September sales.

The only problem I can foresee is what we do when all the Giant's Causeways go up in price because Ghanaati wins the Sussex.

But let's think positive. Do we keep our mare in my garage or yours?

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

mdfanofracing — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 02:18:16 GMT

Giants Causeway IMO is one of the best looking stallions currently at stud. Ive said it before, I have never seen a bad picture of this horse. I cant wait to see how his filly out of Rags to Riches turns out. Tiznow is equally good looking, being the dark side of Giants Causeways bright shining self. He reminds me of Sunday Silence in the looks department. A lot can be said for both of these fabulous race horses who have turned into two of the top stallions standing at stud today. Hopefully, they both have many productive years left in the breeding shed.

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Affirmed4ever — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 00:59:53 GMT

I was also in NY and witnessed one of the most hard-fought stretch battles I've seen in a long time. As one other blogger put it, brings back shades of Affirmed/Alydar. If you get the chance, stop by WinStar Farm and see Tiznow. You always hear how smart these horses are, and he truly is!

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Mindy C. — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:57:03 GMT

Hey Lovesthisgame...

I totally agree with you on Mr. Hot Stuff... he is just very immature...

Tiznow rules no matter what anyone says... Love my Colonel John and God love Well Armed... awesome...

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Marianna Haun — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:48:17 GMT

Tiznow has a unique genetic pedigree. He tracks on the Y line (tail-male) to Man 'o War and he expresses Man 'o War's great heart on his X line. He has that huge front end found on Man 'o War and is a rugged terrific athlete. We measured him and he has a heartscore of 153 (this is a heart that goes to St. Simon the same as Secretariat and his heart is as large as Secretariat's.) This is the heart he gives his daughters. We have a Tiznow daughter in training that has his same heart and body and we are thrilled to have her. I love Giant's Causeway but Tiznow will always be a top recommendation from me...Marianna Haun

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Kayte — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:11:30 GMT

I have always been a massive fan of Tiznow. In fact, I remember looking his sire's (Cee's Tizzy) page on the Harris Farm website and thinking what a looker he was. Still baffles me that Cee's Tizzy's fee is still low after siring a 2 time Breeder's Cup Classic winnerl, esp one that is proving in the breeding shed.

Like GC for his looks-chestnuts are always stunning but Tiznow is proving himself better than GC is going to.

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Abbie Knowles — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 20:57:03 GMT

I adore Tiznow and The Giant equally much and their connections (teams) are great!

God Bless

All the best

Abbie

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

Mike S — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:59:08 GMT

GIANT'S CAUSEWAY has sired 67 stakes winners and 7 millionaires from 1,141 foals of racing age, with total progeny earnings of $51,943,984. That's an average of $68,983 per runner, for an AEI of 2.11 (comparable index 3.35).

TIZNOW has sired 21 stakes winners and 3 millionaires from 453 foals of racing age, with total progeny earnings of $23,575,510. That's an average of $87,316 per runner, for an AEI of 1.94 (comparable index 2.09).

Right before WELL ARMED won the Dubai World Cup TIZNOW's AEI was hovering around 2.13 according to Jockey Club statistics. After WELL ARMED won the big race, adding $3.6 million to TIZNOW's total the AEI went down to 1.94, according to the Jockey Club. The average earnings per runner went from about $73,000 to $90,000 at the time and the AEI went down. I wrote to the Jockey Club about this, but they said their statistics are correct. I pointed out that such a drastic change in average earnings per runner was likely to make the AEI go up, not down, but that didn't do any good. Interestingly, the Blood Horse issue of July 11th shows TIZNOW's AEI as 2.16, which I think is more like it, but I don't know why their AEI figures are different (from the Jockey Club).

TIZNOW, it seems to me, sires late-maturing horses, for the most part. WELL ARMED, INFORMED, TIZZY'S TUNE, THOR'S DAUGHTER and BULLSBAY won their first stakes race at the age of 5. TIZFIZ, LADY CHACE, TIZAQUEENA and MERCHANT MARINE won their first stakes at 4. Others have won at 2 and at 3 years of age as well. But I do think that, for the most part, TIZNOW's offspring are big, fast horses who need time to develop, and the people who allow them this important development period are more likely to be rewarded than those who rush them into 5 furlong "baby races" at 2.

re: Giant's Causeway and Tiznow

da3hoss — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:53:00 GMT

ryanmoseley, please don't make excuses for such a great champion...he doesn't need them and it takes away from his greatness. It was one of the greatest races ever run, with a technical winner, but no loser.