Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

ED — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 21:04:05 GMT

I went to Hialeah today, out of pure curiousity. It's primed and freshly painted, as if racing never left. You have to hand it to Mr. B. This could be Florida's best chance at a Breeders Cup. I stayed for only one race -- not a quarters fan. I just wanted to hear the hooves on the track. I closed my eyes and could smell the history. I think Citation winked at me as I left!

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

DonW — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:37:14 GMT

The Breeders Cut has failed utterly is its important goal of attracting new patrons to racing, which we all know is in terrible condition. TV ratings were again absymal and coverage in news media was sketchy at best. Even attendance was paltry for a region that has 20 million people within driving distance. The Cup needs to be "branded" as a major event for the general public, not just for us racing fans. So I agree with those who want one or maybe two locations only, with the main one being Churchill Downs. The two day event needs to be totally re-thought for maximum media exposure. So the BC should be one day, with at most three truly championship races: Classic, Ladies Classic and Turf. It would be a two hour TV show at most. The other races should be spread around the country during October.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

Matthew — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:37:39 GMT

I have said that the plan of having the Breeders' Cup World Championships at Del Mar is not a very good idea because it can easily lose one year without racing at the Los Angeles county Fair Meet at Fairplex and the Oak Tree Race Meet at Santa Anita. Furthermore, you can have the Breeders' Cup World Championships at Calder in 2024, but not Gulfstream Park because it does not have a fall meet. You can not have a Breeders' Cup World Championships at Tokyo Racecourse in Japan in 2015 because the Breeders' Cup is a North American International Racing Event and you can not have the Breeders' Cup World Championships at Sha Tin Racecourse in Hong Kong because Hong Kong focused a lot on Turf Racing rather racing in an All Weather Dirt Track which is called an Equitrack, and they more more stakes races including the prestigious races that are on the Turf Course at Sha Tin. Besides, they already have the Hong Kong International Races, so it is not going to work in Hong Kong. If there is a new racetrack in Las Vegas, it will cost a millions of dollars. In my opinion, we can have the 2012 Breeders' Cup at Golden Gate Fields or Fairplex Park(future sites of Hollywood Park Racing), 2015 Breeders' Cup at Belmont Park, 2020 Breeders' Cup at Churchill Downs 2024 Breeders' Cup at Oak Tree At Santa Anita, and 2025 Breeders' Cup At Fairplex.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

RobertfromBaltimore — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:36:08 GMT

I appreciated the comments with people with new ideas. If you want to be boring just make the Breeders Cup Churchill, Santa Anita and Belmont every three years. Here is a mythical dream schedule with introducing the greatest horses/athletes to different venues:

2011 Probably back at Belmont

2012 Del Mar: They could set up for a quick 4 day meet. Never been there but this gorgeous sight has to be a Breeders Cup venue at sometime!

2013 Delaware Park: Probably the most beautiful track on the East Coast behind Belmont Park. The trains run right behind the track for convenience. Delaware Park has one of the most lovely paddocks around.

2014 Keeneland Flat out the most wonderful racetrack in the country.

Already has a meet running there in late October. The track can handle 40,000 people and the overflow can go to Churchill Downs to watch the special simulcast.

2015 Japan Wow, 180,000 sometimes go to see the horse. Start the races at 8:00 A.M. their time for a 12:00 East Coast time here.

2016 Fair Grounds This track is long overdue for the Breeders Cup. A long tradition of horse racing and a place for a championship post Hurrican Katina.

2017 Hialeah Give the management of Hialeah seven years to build up this dream paradise.

2018 Woodbine Fine racing at Woodine goes onto late November. Let's go North of the Border.

2019 Arlington Park The second largest city in America and sight of some of the greatest races ever held should be here.

2020 Overseas to Hong Kong. Big crowds and probably the largest handle ever.

2021 Laurel Park, Maryland. With slots revenue from ten years, I hope this track located only fifteen miles from our nation's capital with a great race course is selected at some time.

2022 Racing in the Southwest.

Choice of Lone Star Park, Turf Paradise or Remington Park. Long legacy of horses in the Desert Southwest.

2023 Golden Gate Fields How about racing in the affluent Northern California area?

2024 Florida Racing again. How about Calder, Gulfstream or the up and coming Tampa Bay?

2025 Breeders Cup at a new Las Vegas track! Many big bettors out there. What a dream promotion!

Stay boring or be daring; you only live once! Horse Racing is a game best seen live. People fall in love at the track with the horses. I may not get the greatest of handle on my host selections but there will be maximum exposure to all the people of this country and the world.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

JB — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:06:39 GMT

This dream line up kills. Great imagination, geographic balance and stellar hosts. I'd love to include the Spa but operational challenges abound. Plus upstate NY weather in late October could spell disaster but so could another Chi-town BC. However a Breeders Cup at Saratoga would be one for the ages and provide racetrackers world-wide with an once in a life time horse lovers experience. Keep up the great work. Posts like this one will hopefully be recognized by racing chiefs as providing thoughtful feedback for racing biggest opportunity to grow the sport with mainstream sports fans.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

mz — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:46:06 GMT

Hey, Tim: did you take into account the exchange rate? Maybe that makes Woodbine number 1 in handle(less) too. Yay!

And if everyone really wants only sun and heat in November, how come no one is suggesting holding the Cup in Australia.

It`s spring into summer there and the whole country used to stop for the Melbourne Cup...they really like their horse racing down under.

p.s. Most of my picks end up fourth anyways, so I don`t care what the handle is....I usually only pay into it and never get anything back.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

Tim G — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:50:34 GMT

In a nutshell:

Nov. 4, 2006 Churchill Downs, Ky. Attendance 75,132, on track handle.

18,259,971 Simulcast handle 122,072,227. Total handle: 140,332,198

Oct. 26, 1996 Woodbine, Ontario, Canada Attendance 42,243

On Track Handle 8,706,002 simulcast Handle:61,813,421 Total handle: 70,519,423.

The worst handle in the past 20 years was at Woodbine. The lowest overall handle was Nov. 2, 1985 Aqueduct, N.Y.attendance 42,568 $8,609,132

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

Maureen — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:58:06 GMT

Arlington Park Arlington Park Arlington Park. Arlington is perhaps the best racing venue in America and I bet anyone that has been there would agree. So Arlington - on the list.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

nmh — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:29:35 GMT

can females run in the dubai race?

if so wouldn't that be a great

career finish for zenyatta?

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

Pam S. — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:58:14 GMT

I agree with the poster who said a new track should be built in Las Vegas to host the BC, chiefly because I live there. I think they should start building it now!!

But seriously, I prefer the warm-weather sites but I also believe it should be moved around to fans in different parts of the country can attend, as it has always been.

I've never been to Sam Houston. Is it too small? I have been to Del Mar and it seems a bit small. Too bad they can't put in a turf course at OP. They get pretty big crowds on their big days, don't they? Also, I think the event needs to come to some track in Florida at some point.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

Linda — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:43:35 GMT

I live near Presque Isle there is no turf track and it only holds mabey 3,000 at the most. I have been told by some of the horse people that the set up is terrible here. So count this track OUT!

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

mz — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:52:49 GMT

Ha! Tim, you're only jealous because none of your heads of state can ever wear a tiara with a straight face.

And the Breeders' Cup only dreams that it is the "Sport of Kings" until it can have a head of state with a tiara riding down the stretch in a landau behind a bunch of Mounties to open the proceedings.

Really, though, the Cup used to be in late October. Move it to the last week in October and any "northern" area is fine.

IMO to involve more than the committed southern Californians and Kentuckians and Noo Yawkers, you need to seriously consider a varied, rotating set of venues and possibly, even holding some of the races (if not all of them)outside of (even) North America. Then we can really see how good anyone's horses are in relation to anyone else's. Anyone for a True Horse of the Year?

To close: a physics question: would tundra even need synthetics?

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

Dan — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:02 GMT

I've lived outside Chicago for decades and I've visited Toronto many times. Both of these cities are in the same USDA climate zone (zone 5). Neither are as cold in early November as some on here seem to think.

It's been so long since we've had a measurable snowfall in Chicagoland in early November that I can't even remember the last time it happened. The average date for measurable snow here is early December, not November.

In fact this year on Breeders Cup weekend the daytime temps were about 10 degrees WARMER in northern Illinois than at Santa Anita. It gets kinda cold here at night in November but the races aren't at night. So IMO the weather at Arlington and Woodbine isn't as much of an issue for the BC as people are claiming.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

Geno — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:21:20 GMT

Thanks everyone for the commentary. Seems to be a couple themes here…and I will address my thought process:

1) Why are synthetics included….my list assumes they are here for the long haul.

2) Hialeah needs a lot of work – was smoking the good stuff as reader Worksoplad points out.

3) Hollywood was left off due to its impending fate

4) Too cold in the North. During BC weekend it was 65 degrees in Buffalo, NY…and believe it or not, we didn’t have any snow!

5) Why not Saratoga. Probably unrealistic.

6) Del Mar is too small and has a bad turf course – I checked some of the charts from the past meet and they drew over 30K on a few Saturdays….Monmouth did it with temporary seating…it can be done. I wasn’t aware they had a bad turf course.

7) Change racing dates. MTH proved it could hold a mini-meet of six to seven days.

Many of you make a lot of good points. Thanks for reading!

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

Tim G — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:43:47 GMT

The comment was in response to yours. Woodbine isn't a big draw for fans or handle. THAT is what horse racing relies on. THAT is what it all comes down to, the bottom line.

It needs to be financially viable.

Secondly we need the horses to be there and synthetics in the frozen tundra?

KY and all of the NE tracks have had the same complaints made about them so enough with the 'Oh Canada'.

As far as early snow here? Not going to have the BC at Wyoming Downs.

But hey, bid on it.

As far as rotation? What's new about that? It basically has been rotated through various MAJOR tracks with the exception of the last two years. A couple of ventures to some newer tracks or those not traditionally on the scope of the MAJORITY of those who fill up the Breeders Cup races.

Those of you 'involved by attending' or 'commenting' have to rely on the horsemen to 'bring' their horses to the BC to make it successful and fun to watch. Should we have more of what we've had this year as far as some of the super stars and potential super stars bypassing it? MORE in this year than any other.

Frankly? 'World Championships' have always been a bit misleading. Who are the organizations who created it and where are they based?

They throw a party and come if you like. Start gearing it to non US tracks or horses and it'll be the Euro Championships. Uhhh you guys are a constitutional monarchy with egads QEII as your head of state, right?

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

MRO — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:35:23 GMT

Looks good for starters, but I would also add some of the other, lesser known tracks. Spread the wealth around.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

Matthew — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:22:52 GMT

Gulfstream Park does not have a fall meet, if they have The Breeders' Cup World Championships there for the fourth time in 2019, it could possibly effect the Calder Race Meeting. Although Calder is not a world class racetrack like Gulfstream, but in my opinion, you can not have the Breeders' Cup World Championships at the racetrack that only has a winter race meet or a summer race meet. So the location for the Breeders' Cup can be hosted in racetracks such as Belmont Park, Aqueduct, Laurel, Keeneland, Churchill, Fair Grounds, Oak Tree, Golden Gate Fields or Fairplex Park (future site of Hollywood Park Racing).

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

davids — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:17:43 GMT

If the Cup were to go international, don't overlook the two Hong Kong tracks. Both are beautiful and crowd friendly.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

suebroux — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:17:23 GMT

Interestingly enough, everyone's "dream" seems to include perfect weather, and you don't need to be a meteorologist to know that the weather can be a little dicey in various regions in late Oct/ early Nov. Personally, I prefer not to deal with the mutuels in mittens.

I'm a homer: I sure loved the BC at Lone Star in 2004. Most cooperative weather and accessible via DFW. Fair Grounds, too, would be an intriguing locale But what about Tampa Bay? Or even Remington Park? They're tracks that don't get a lot of attention and it could provide them a tremendous opportunity to get some recognition on a big scale.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

rjppdp — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:04:27 GMT

I think it should be a rotation of the big 3 churchill,santa anita and belmont and then throw in one non tradition track.I would love to see woodbine, lone star, gulfstream, arlington, monmouth, fairgrounds. Leave the summer two out Del Mar and Saratoga are wummer dreams. Keeneland also off because they are a special time in the fall and spring.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

brady22 — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:53:24 GMT

I think the best idea is Hialeah; restored to it's past, it would be a great spot... plenty of seating compared to Gulfstream. In fact make it part of the permanent rotation.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

mz — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:40:45 GMT

I'm sorry. My head was spinning so much that I became lyrical. Please forgive me.

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

mz — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:38:17 GMT

Hey, Tim: there was an early snow in the States too -- the midwest or west, wasn't it? Following your reasoning, this obviously means that you should never run the Breeders' Cup in the "United States" because of the possible bad weather in "that" country.

(Since I live in "Canada", I am writing this using my seal oil lamp huddling in my igloo with wolves howling outside. Soon, when the northern night gets worse, I will not be able to take the sled dogs into town to watch horse racing from that fabled land to the south, where the sun always shines, men are men and Breeders' Cup races belong because they are "World" Championships and there are no other horse reacing countries in that World. Mush little doggies!)

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

carla — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:26:29 GMT

I love the idea of the rotation of tracks. I think its a way to get people to maybe get interested in horse racing that are not fans.

I got involved in the BC event since 1996 and have been going pretty much since.

I think for people who are not 100% just racing its a good way to maybe get them interested.

When we go we usually like to site see and going to the same track every year just bring in your normal racing fan which doesn't bring in the revenue to the town. Rotating also give a chance to see things around the track also. Yes there are people who just come to the race and gone the day after but there are a few of us that do like to see whats there to see.

I know the the most of the colder weather tracks bring in the horses from across the pond. But it seems that when the BC is held on a track as Santa Anita it still brings in the Euro's over.

But its the little people who support racing as fans. Fans go, bet and support the racing world.

If the races rotate maybe more people will becomes fans and support the industry more

re: Breeders' Cup Rotation Plan - A Guy Can Dream Can't He?

Tim G — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:50:43 GMT

mz, George is right. I know he's run a couple up there.

Also we all have fellow horsemen we speak with. I do know that there was an early snow in Canada this year.

Joe, you'll have a long wait.

The synthetics haven't proven to be THAT much, if any safer (note the breakdowns at Del Mar vs Saratoga or those at HP or SA before the BC) and the cost is exhorbitant to an already struggling industry.

Ann, the situation at HP is just too uncertain as far as the future.