Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Destroyer — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:15:09 GMT

Go, Pletch! The filly Devil May Care looks pretty awesome too, especially with Johnny V on board again.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Tim G — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:59:25 GMT

FA, it's been discussed why.

The US is no longer an agrarian culture. There ARE people who work at the track who ARE non-Latino or are Hispanic Americans. Most of the US citizens go on to other things in racing, climb up the ladder and become trainers or assistant trainers. That's hard to do when you aren't a citizen.

The trainers that I've had are very good to their employees are equally as demanding regardless of where their employees are from and are very fair.

Now there are people who want to work on the backside and start at the bottom, but they all want to work their way up, and can do so.

Problem is most of them haven't got a clue or tend to be know it alls or actually as demonstrated even on here? Think they can start at the top and tell others what to do.

Is it a perfect system and ideal working conditions? No. Are they working on it? Yes. Not sure if you saw it but the issue with work visas was written up a few years ago. It's definitely too complex of an issue to discuss on blog comments and even though you THINK you know the whole story, that's pretty difficult. That's like any of us in business saying we know how other unrelated businesses work. Using it to attack the training skills is kind of off track and seemed to just be not relevant.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Forbidden Apple — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 14:57:44 GMT

Jason,

Do you have a planned interview for Jeremy Noseda? It would be nice to know about the health of Awesome Act and how he came out of his last race.

Tim G,

The DOL go involved on the backstrecth in 2008 for the first time in how many years? I agree that Pletcher paid more $ in fines than any other trainer. The simple fact remains that most trainers require working 7 days a week, no day off. It is also a fact that in 2009 Zito was paying $5 per hour to walk horses in the morning. In this business there is no excuse for paying minimum wage or less! Since I was about 10 years old I have been wondering why 80% of backstretch workers are latino. I continue to make these comments because these people deserve equal rights in our society. They are mostly hard workers that deserve respect and proper wages. We also need to stop calling them aliens.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Mike Relva — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:32:52 GMT

LAZMANNICK

Thanks,I'll be waiting.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

LAZMANNICK — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 23:39:21 GMT

Mike Relva

Hey bud, glad you're back. I think my e-mail is finally working. I'll reply to yours shortly. LOL

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

LAZMANNICK — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 23:37:20 GMT

Billy's Empire

Not to argue, but quit making excuses for Rachel. She had ample time to be ready for the AB and the prep race before it. The reason she wasn't was because she left it all on the track to beat a G-2 male six months before. That's not Zen's fault. It seems to me she raced in a far tougher race in the BCC two months after Rachel's Woodward. One poster even said on one of these blogs (Mary in VT) that Rachel should have gotten a break. Zen should have been racing in the Dubhai World Cup and allow Rachel to have a race or two to be properly prepared for when they finally do meet.

This field that you think she's going to trounce next week is arguably tougher than 95% of the fields she faced last year. Like I said before, if she wins this race, she'll get my respect, but it isn't going to be a walk in the park. LOL

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

LAZMANNICK — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 23:27:39 GMT

sodapopkid

Nothing against Rachel, but I agree with you that she could never beat QR or Zen. However, I will go one step further and say from a mile up. I think that a mile is QR's best distance and I believe that Zen's finishing kick is one of the best ever and that if she ran at a mile either on dirt or even on turf she wouldn't have a problem collaring the front runners. She's just like a race car crusing along in behind waiting for the jock to flip the switch.

I too have had a feeling that Rachel will scratch from the Lady's race on Derby weekend. If she doesn't, good luck to her, but the waters will be deep because CJ will command the pace early and Zardana is well suited to track off a fast pace and then she has a great finish. Too many obstacles for Rachel. She won't really get a chance to have a breather, but if she wins, she'll get my respect.

I think that Matthew W's 21 Apr 2010 9:47 PM post says loads about the difficulty of a fop flight filly or mare winning a 1-1/4M race on dirt against OLDER G-1 males. It's one of the most difficult things in sport and as I've stated many times before, until Zen's BCC win you have to go back to Princessnesian in 1968 to see a filly/mare defeat older males in a G-1 race (or equivalent)at 1-1/4M on dirt. In that same race, Princessnesian's stablemate Gamely, one of the top fillies around at that time finished seventh with Racing Room 2nd and Quicken Tree 3rd. LOL

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

thomas — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 23:13:48 GMT

Coldfacts

LMAO come talk to me when sidney's candy hits the board. oh and eskendereya will hit traffic and run off the board as well that's why he won't win.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Tim G — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 19:33:56 GMT

Carlos, DOL's are working with trainers to clarify and educate them and THE WORKERS on how to pay hotwalkers, grooms.

"New York State's minimum wage is $7.25 per hour, and employers are required to pay overtime for weekly hours past forty at 1½ times the employee's regular pay rate."

If you care to READ their take on it, since FA was talking about Saratoga. I gave the link once.

www.labor.state.ny.us/.../July28_2009.htm

Now if you REALLY know your stuff, you know what the alternative is for these workers. Trainers have gone to bat for many of these folks, trying to help them stay in this country and so forth.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Billy's Empire — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 19:31:59 GMT

No, can you give me that with any horse? Zenyatta may run in California, or she may go to the Foster. Correct? Is that point blank accurate? NO. Rachel was at best 70% for that last race, and she should not of run. Period. On April 30th, when she lines up in the gate, she will beat Zardana and Careless Jewel, and anyone else that wants to race that day. She is full of herself, just like last year when she ran off from the lead pony and dumped Calvin in the post parade at the SPA. The better they get, the more high strung they get.Example, Quality Road in the BC. Rachel has been full of herself in the morning... this is a TC blog.

How about Calvin on Super Saver. He has a live shot to win on May 1st, AGAIN

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

sodapopkid — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:36:51 GMT

BillysEmpire:

We don't want Hypotheticals, or Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda, we want point blank accuracy.. Can you give us that?

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Billy's Empire — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:21:28 GMT

Sodapop, you have no clue what you are talking about! ZERO. Hypothetically, Rachel may face Careless Jewel and Zardana in the La Troienne then turn around and face Zenyatta in the Foster 6 weeks later. Stop being a hater. You have zero knowledge of her training or what her camp wants to do with her.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Zookeeper — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:16:48 GMT

Dr Drunkinbum,

Twas 1 2/7 week before the KD and all over the web, nobody was quiet, especially the stout tout who touts stout!

Lookin at Lucky is slowly crawling up my derby list. Love the blinkers off. Maybe he'll see his opponents if his jockey fails to do so.

Beware of unreliable weather predictions this far in advance! We'll be lucky if they get it right the day prior to D-Day.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

sodapopkid — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:05:54 GMT

Lazmannick, I read on another blog that since Asmussen has been letting RAchel run like she used to, her workouts are getting back to normal. With that being said, We now know she will not face Zenyatta or QR in a race, Moss has already said they or going for races over a mile, well , Ra cannnot run over a mile (woodward) she will exhaust herself and won't be able to hold off Zen closing kick, she will never be able to out run Zen or QR at a race over a mile if that far. I never forsee her in a race against Zenyatta........and any way , Zen came for her and she was a no show, just like all the rest of the grade 1 filles, so now its time for them to put up or shut up and run after the queen Zen.

And I promise you she(RA) won't be running to race Careless Jewel in her next start either.

Agree, Laz?

Also RA fans, Zen can race back in her home state if they want her too, she just came east and no one dared to take her on,......she is doing what she is supposed to be doing, I can't say that for the other filly.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Dr Drunkinbum — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:53:10 GMT

Forbidden Apple

That's what I always heard-5 lengths per second, 1/5 0f a second+one length.

Jason-That's what I like, succinct and to the point, and you are on the money. Anyone who picks the winner, or any other bet even before the final pps are out is asking for trouble. And I've said that before, lists are meaningless. They are basically horse to watch lists, and fun to do. I have no problem with completely changing my list at anytime. One side note-looking at replays, Noble's Promise has more talent than I previously thought, and now think it is possible for him to hit the board if he runs in the Derby. Still, I won't use him in the top two spots, and probably not the first three spots. But I can see where you were coming from on this horse now.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Mike Relva — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:38:15 GMT

COLDFACTS

Jason's correct,he DIDN'T select Odysseus as his Derby horse.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Mike Relva — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:32:53 GMT

DRAYNAY

That's alot of BS regarding your usual remarks of Zenyatta. Look at your horse,RA(unless you've dropped her) cause of your pals mishandling her last yr,she's raced ONCE THIS YEAR! You had Zenyatta finishing THIRD in the Apple B. remember? My five yr. old wouldn't pick Be Fair to beat Zenyatta like you did.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Jason Shandler — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:21:53 GMT

Coldfacts: When did I ever pick Odysseus as my Derby horse? I had him ranked No. 1 in my top 10. Means nothing. Also, the horse got injured in the Blue Grass in case you didnt know. Go ahead and rip an injured horse if it makes you feel better. I dont pick my Derby winner until the week of, and anyone that does so differenty does not know what they are doing. Including you. Vale of York and Connemara? lol. That's all we need to know from you. Hope this response wasnt too vague for you.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Householder — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:13:40 GMT

Dr Drunkinbum. Even with Lucky on the ticket the super will be nice!

Dray. Nice "elimination." Still leaves 12 horses which is too many to play with. Can you let us get through the Derby and then you can start to rag on Zenyatta again? Please.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Dr Drunkinbum — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:24:58 GMT

Ted From La

Nevermind. The weather report now says NO RAIN !!!! Woohoo. It's a miracle. Here comes the Triple Crown talk. Yakety yak, don't talk back.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

CV — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:15:05 GMT

Matthew W.,

Todd Pletcher told DRF that Devil May Care likes the longer distance.

He said, "She's had the benefit of working with some of these other good 3-year-olds in my barn this winter, and I know she can stick with them, and I'm also confident she'll like a mile and one-quarter and even a mile and one-half."

Should make the Derby even more interesting if she runs.

If she's in the Oaks, I think I'd still like Blind Luck.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Dr Drunkinbum — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:13:15 GMT

Zookeeper

Who me? I didn't tout. I said stout. Eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow The Derby may be over. Then what have we got-start looking at two year olds for next year's Derby, that's what. Tiz the season to be jolly, tralalalalalala. Do you feel lucky? Well do ya.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Forbidden Apple — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:02:29 GMT

I'll ask again, how many lengths make up one second of running time? I am just curious as to what other handicappers use as a guidline. I use five lengths per second.

I would also like to see Zenyatta on dirt against males in her next start. She is definitely not hiding from Quality Road, he is on vacation and waiting to run in the Met Mile. He wants no part of a 1 1/4 mile race against the Zenyatta train!

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Coldfacts — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:28:44 GMT

Jason,

My recent post included very little pedigree information but as usual when you are called out on certain issues you provide either very little or vague responses. Being dismissive does not eliminate the inconsistencies and hype contained in your blog. I know you do not have the time to answer all the questions I posed but I would appreciate the answer to one. How can a stable with possibly 6 Derby starters, with 4 to5 having projected odds of 15-1 to 30-1 be powerful?

At no point did advise you that Connemara was my derby pick. You got that information from Ain’’t Easy Being Good. I advised you early that I liked Yale Of York to win the derby if he made the transition to dirt. Your response was “Good Luck with your Dubai based horses” I can point you to the date and time of the exchange if you so desire.

If I recall correctly your derby pick was Odysseus. Below are extracts from a previous post in response to your hyping of this colt.

(a) I did not see Odysseus performance in his allowance victory but it must have been mine blowing for you rank this colt #1. If you were not the knowledgeable individual I regard you to be, I would think you are plum crazy. If his final time of 1:44.37 was not achieved gearing down then his #1 ranking is even more bizarre.

Your reply indicated that he was geared down in the last furlong. Do you know what was the final time for the Tampa Bay derby? 1:44.31. So much for gearing down.

(b) Are you aware that Odysseus is a January foal? With his maturity advantage and only three races on his resume, he definitely has soundness issues. When January foals have soundness issues they should never be #1 on any list.

© NB: Which of A.P Indy’s 54 plus son that have passed through the breeding shed have sired the winner of a Triple Crown race? None! Who was the last derby winner to be broodmare sire of a derby winner? Count Fleet who was dam sire of 1965 Derby winner Lucky Debonair (44 Years) Your #1 ranked horse has too many historic hurdles to cross along with his soundness issues.

re: Derby or No Derby, Pletcher Has Been Masterful

Coldfacts — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:24:31 GMT

Thomas,

It’s obvious you have been reading my posts. There have been many descriptions of my posts but “Random Babbling” is a first. I gave a lot of thoughts as to how best to respond to your misguided comment. Here goes:

At your earliest convenience I would appreciate a sample of what you consider to be “Random Babbling”

Names are proper nouns whether they are aliases no not. You should therefore make the appropriate correction to your posting name/title.

Below is a definition of Babbling extracted from the Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

There are two types of babbling. Most people are familiar with the characteristic sounds made during babbling, namely reduplicative and variegated babbling. The former consists of repeated syllables, such as /ba/ e.g. "Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba", whereas variegated babbling consists of a mix of syllables, e.g. "ka-da-bu-ba-mi-doy-doy-doy".

The consonants that babbling infants produce tend to be any of the following: /p, b, t, m, d, n, k, ɡ, s, h, w, j/. The following consonants tend to be infrequently produced during phonological development: /f, v, θ, ð, ʃ, tʃ, dʒ, l, r, ŋ/. The complex nature of sounds that developing children produce make them difficult to categorize, but the above rules tend to hold true regardless of t Random Babbling he language to which children are exposed.

It is clear you heard the term Random Babbling but failed to recall the context in which it was used. Jason’s supporters do not post audios of their comments. They posts written words. English is not my first language and consequently I would welcome your explanation as to how babbling is achieved in written words when the term is associated with sounds emanating from speaking or attempts to speak. I sincerely hope you do not fall into the category of individuals that are stuck on stupid.

I selected certain points from Jason’s post, added some comments and asked some questions. I am of the opinion that the spin he has been putting on certain issues needed to be highlighted. For example – “Eskendereya -The Star We have been Searching For” How does he justify such a conclusion when Sidney’ Candy has run the fastest 7F (1:20.91) and 9F (:48.00) of any 3YO. He like Eskendereya, has won all his 3YO races impressively; has recorded faster times and has never been headed. Eskendereya on the other hand has tracked slow fractions in all his races and has defeated sub standard opposition. Jason is entitled to his opinion but he is not entitled to the facts and the cold facts indicate that if there is a star we have been searching for, he is in CA. How does he consider Todd Pletcher’s stable to be powerful when he stated that apart from Eskendereya the other possible 4 to5 starters will be 15-1 to 30-1. Two of likely starters have not won a 3YO race and the remaining three have one 3YO win to their credit. The adjective ‘powerful’ does not apply.

If your regard the post of my assessments random babbling, I am certainly not responsible for your state of confusion regarding written and spoken words.