History of a Different Kind

re: History of a Different Kind

nyfalcon — Thu, 27 May 2010 18:24:25 GMT

the king of ny racing will get it with Ice box..

re: History of a Different Kind

Will W — Thu, 27 May 2010 02:07:30 GMT

Ted from LA: Ask Lindsay. I saw her at the track the other day deep in thought and pouring over the DRF. When I asked her what she was doing as the behavior seemed so uncharacteristic, she told me she was trying to cultivate and hone up her ability to analyze and discern. Claimed she was bored stiff confining her gambling to the slots. It was all too mindless, and she was out in the most determined way to shake off her image as an empty-headed party girl.

re: History of a Different Kind

Pedigree Shelly — Wed, 26 May 2010 23:35:56 GMT

I remember several years ago , I was reading an interview in the BH with Wayne Lukas and even HE was taling about shortening the TC races !!!! I was astounded ! Then , I thought well , he used to be a Quarters trainer ! Enough talk ! Please !!! Leave the TC races alone ! About 3 months ago I had fractured my ankle , so I had plenty of reading time on the couch ! I was going through last years Keeneland Nov. sales catalogues and came over a horse named Trailer Trash ! Is The Jockey Club asleep at the wheel when it comes to approving names or what ?? That name is an insult to the breed or to any horse for that matter ! Jason , sorry to go off the subject , no more espresso for me :)

re: History of a Different Kind

LAZMANNICK — Wed, 26 May 2010 16:32:43 GMT

The more I see of these two Canadian fillies, Biofuel and Embur's Song, the more I like. I said the CCA for Biofuel. I meant the Mother Goose. Success there and then she'll go to the CCA......Now that the BC Lady's is going to be under the lights I wonder when these two will start racing on Woodbine's Wednesday night programs (under the lights). LOL

re: History of a Different Kind

tara s — Wed, 26 May 2010 14:33:31 GMT

ok i agree with berth the belmont song should go back to sidewalks of new york i love the song new york new york but i also think the history of the belmont goes with the other song. as for shortening or dismissing the belmont are you crazy the triple crown isnt supposed to be easy and the belmont is the oldest of the tc races horses should be bred for stamina too i would never ever breed a mare to giant's causeway or a big brown. giant's causeways are good for a few races the they get injured (heat seeker and eskenderaya) we need more mile and a half races the jockey club gold cup should go back to that distance lets make these horses tougher not faster and injury prone

re: History of a Different Kind

PomDeTerre — Wed, 26 May 2010 13:06:10 GMT

NYRA- a mismanaged joke. While - esp since I live here- I want racing to continue at a high level in NYS, something;s gotta give. The politos keep arguing about the VLTs- yes they are needed- with a stipulation that the $$$ goes to the tracks in pures and improvements- not for building a hotel- as is being done here- with the profits. And until we start questioning why the 3rd guy at the top makes 2x more than the U.S. pres- we have to insure this money doesn't get siphoned off for salaries for the org. Too much graft, and provisions need to be made to stop the greedy from lining their purses and make sure this money gets used for racing. These salaries, travel expenses and other write offs are ridiculous, and something needs to be done about that or this bailout wil only serve to make the rich get richer at a cost to the sport.

re: History of a Different Kind

s lee — Tue, 25 May 2010 23:48:24 GMT

Hi -

while I agree that I wouldn't mess around with the TC races (I'd prefer to train the horses differently), let's remember that they haven't always been this way.

If we take the Triple Crown as starting in 1919, when Sir Barton won it, that's sort of tricky because that set of 3 races didn't even have the name "Triple Crown" until the 1930's. When people looked back at the combination of races as something special, they discovered Sir Barton had done it. The locations of the races, the timing, the distances, have ALL changed since 1919. Heck, for a few years the Derby and Preakness were on the same day, and, for a while, the Belmont wasn't even on a Saturday!

Up to and including Man O'War's 3 year old year, the Belmont was run the British way - counter-clockwise. And until 1925 or 1926 it was 1 and 3/8's miles, not 1 1/2.

The Derby has been at its current distance the longest, I think, since sometime in the 1890's.

The Preakness has been a lot of different distances, but it's been set at 1 3/16 since sometime in the 1920's.

Changes don't diminish the Triple Crown - changes for the wrong reasons do!

re: History of a Different Kind

jayjay — Tue, 25 May 2010 21:24:47 GMT

Between slewbaby's use of multiple question marks and nmhiplains use of exclamation points, my blood pressure is way up...

I keep having to scroll to the top to remind myself what the topic of the blog is...I guess it has become "open to discuss anything" since half of us are too dumb to understand the original topic and the ones that did are probably still laughing at us LOL.

re: History of a Different Kind

mz — Tue, 25 May 2010 20:06:43 GMT

Ted: We are dumb.

(Even WillW)

re: History of a Different Kind

MonicaV — Tue, 25 May 2010 19:47:54 GMT

Slewbaby,

I'm rather appalled at your post about the triple crown and the Belmont.

It is true that breeders are breeding for speed rather than endurance but that doesn't mean that there are no horses out there capable of winning the triple crown. There have been some near misses, Smarty Jones being one of them. What we are seeing more of is horses who started at the Derby and lose, skip the Preakness and go to the Belmont. Birdstone did that and beat Smarty. Would he have beat him had he run in the Preakness? Maybe but probably not.

From my understanding, people were skeptical that Smarty could even get 10 furlongs. He had no trouble and maybe had he rated better at the Belmont, he would have won. You are right in that there are not many races at 12 furlongs. Even the JCGC used to be 12 but is now 10 furlongs.

Using Rachel Alexandra as your point was ridiculous. Her former trainer, Mr. Wiggins, felt that if she were to go in a TC race, it should be the Belmont. She is bred for distance. Yes, the infamous Woodward where she barely held on to beat that claimer was run a month after her win at Monmouth pulling away from the field and winning by six lengths in the mud. Might have taken a bit out of her but clearly, she could have run further and won because not one of her opponents was getting close.

A six furlong Belmont is insanity.

Changing anythibg about the TC is lunacy because if the distances or the timing is changed, then a TC winner under new rules cannot be considered to be equal to the former winners. No way. Changing it, diminishes it. There would be no point. When something is really difficult to achieve it makes it special, something to be rmembered. If it's made easier, it's just average and forgettable.

re: History of a Different Kind

Ted from LA — Tue, 25 May 2010 18:59:39 GMT

Would somebody please summarize for me what Will W said above? I don't get any of it and don't have time to figure it out. Discernment? What kind of high-falutin' word is that? I have to run now and watch the video of Lindsay Lohan in court. I also have to go figure out my mantra. I keep forgetting if it is "aaaaaaaaammmmmmmm" or "uuuuuummmmmmmmmm."

re: History of a Different Kind

jayjay — Tue, 25 May 2010 18:25:42 GMT

Is NYRA really the one to blame on that whole fiasco or is it the state ?? It seems the state owes NYRA 17million through that Off-Track betting corp. Both are probably at fault but just glad that they got the loan to continue operating at least until next year. Saved a lot of folks from losing their jobs.

re: History of a Different Kind

mz — Tue, 25 May 2010 15:13:41 GMT

Laz: Queen's Plate for the filly (so she can actually get the plate from Liz this year). CCA Oaks for Biofuel. Later this year: Zen, RA and the two Cdn fillies in the BC Classic. Another Year-of-the-Fillies!!

Re: Make Music for Me -- didn't his sire sire a couple of Argentinian stakes winners? Going long?

re: History of a Different Kind

Will W — Tue, 25 May 2010 13:14:35 GMT

Better luck next time, Jason. You might remember that we live in an age of impatience, thoughtlessness, and poor attention spans where reading comprehension skills have fallen off the cliff. Careful readings are rare; discernment skills sadly in decline. People today prefer to do the mindless - like pull the arm of a slot machine or scratch off a lottery ticket - rather than do a close and careful analysis of a DRF, digest it thoroughly and then subject the information gained to a patient analysis and reflection. With this contemporary bunch, you must, as the old adage goes, "keep it simple, Stupid." Having said that, I'll now tell on myself. I had to read the "nine different horses" thing several times to accurately get your drift, and, I see from your woeful laments in the blog that even some of your veteran reader/bloggers failed to discern your intended meaning.

re: History of a Different Kind

slyder — Tue, 25 May 2010 12:19:34 GMT

Just ignore Slewbaby. For anyone that says we should change The Belmont to six Furlongs and hold it at Aqueduct?, Idiotic...

Greg J. 24 May 2010 4:01 PM

Must be related to Mr. BS the nay nugget

re: History of a Different Kind

Fran Loszynski — Tue, 25 May 2010 12:11:19 GMT

Yes Nancy, Alex's kids are "feeling their oats!" so to speak. Wait till the summer and next year. We haven't seen anything yet! You'll be reading about Afleet Alex's kids someday.I was hoping Quick Ride would give a little more for Nick Zito but I'm sure Ice Box will in the Belmont. I was thinking we'll have a real shopping spree on our hands-

SUPER SAVER, LOOKING AT LUCKY (shopper) and something for your ICE BOX !!!

re: History of a Different Kind

GunBow — Tue, 25 May 2010 08:29:57 GMT

It's a little delayed, but I did want to make a few comments about this past Saturday at Hollywood Park. I thought there were 4 very intriguing performances.

1. Smiling Tiger-Gr.3 Laz Barrera:

Smiling Tiger had flashed some talent and class when he ran 3rd in both the gr.2 Best Pal and gr.1 Del Mar Futurity last year as a 2 year old. It should be mentioned that in both of those races eventual Derby 4th place horse, Make Music for Me, ran 2nd, and Eclipse champion and Preakness winner, Lookin at Lucky, ran 1st. Smiling Tiger was unfortantely sidelined for 7 months after those races, but his comeback effort, a good 3rd in the 6 furlong Harry Henson(on turf) set him up nicely for the Barrera.

The Barrera was not given to Smiling Tiger. He had to go out and run quick fractions, :22 and 2 for the first quarter and :44 and 3 for the half. At the top of the stretch, Smiling Tiger was tackled by the Baffert duo of Concord Point(on the outside) and Macias(on the inside). Yet, even though Smiling Tiger had gone 6 furlongs in a brisk 1:08 and 3,he was able to hold off both of those horses as well as Domonation and Skipshot to win by a half(Concord Point 2nd). The final time was 1:21 and 1, and earned a 98 Beyer.

Smiling Tiger is a horse of some quality. He has speed, solid back class, and is solidly built. Given this was only his 2nd start in 7 months and that he's only had 6 career starts, it would appear Smiling Tiger has some upside and might get even better. Evidently, his connections are looking to stretch him out to 8.5 furlongs in the Affirmed Cap' at Hollywood. The Barrera has a surprisingly good history of producing top level talent, however most have been sprinters(Reraise, Love that Red, Caller One, Swept Overboard, Squirtle Squirt, Captain Squire). A notable exception is Dixie Union, who went from running 2nd in the 2000 Barrera to winning the Haskell 2 starts later(ran 2nd by a neck to the then unknown Tiznow in the Affirmed between the Barrera and Haskell).

2. Rapport-6.5f Maiden:

Rapport won the 7th race, a 6.5 furlong maiden by 5.25 lengths in a strong 1:15 and 4. A 3 year old daughter of Songandaprayer, Rapport went out under Preakness hero Martin Garcia and set a blistering pace of :21 and 3 and :44 and 2. While Rapport did tire slightly, she actually kept things together quite well in the stretch to win by daylight.

Rapport is a $475,000 purchase, and is a half-sister to gr.1 winner Adieu. Rapport had started 3 times as a juvenile back East but bombed each time, prompting a switch to Baffert. Clearly, Baffert has her going the right way, and with that great speed Rapport might eventually be stakes material.

3. Uncle Don-6f Allowance(turf):

I had written about Uncle Don after he won the Grey Memo Stakes on Gold Rush day, and he didn't disappoint in his first race since. Making his first start on turf in the 6 furlong contest, Uncle Don went to the lead from the start under the emerging star, Joel Rosario, and dismissed all challenges with the greatest of ease to win by almost 3. The win was Uncle Don's 4th in a row.

What makes this strong performance sprinting on turf so interesting is that Uncle Don is out of Soviet Problem, the 94' Breeder's Cup Sprint runner-up and one of the best turf sprinters of the last 20 years. A 5 year old, Uncle Don is at the top of his game and will be tough in turf sprints, even stakes.

4. Enriched-1 mile Allowance(turf):

The 3 previous performances were nice, but this was easily the performance of the day. Personally, I had been waiting for Lava Man's little bro, Enriched, to have a breakout race(like Acclamation had in the Jim Murray). Enriched had been running well over the last 9 months, placing in some Cal bred stakes and was coming into the allowance having run a sharp 3rd three weeks earlier in the gr.3 Alysheba at Churchill on Oaks day(on dirt). Enriched appeared to have the allowance field over the barrel, but I don't know if anyone was prepared for just how fast Enriched would run.

Enriched settled just off a blistering pace set by Liberian Freighter. Those 2 went the first quarter of the one mile turf race in :22 and 2, the half in :44 and 3, and 6 furlongs in a stunning 1:08 and 2. As a point of comparison, Uncle Don's final time for his 6 furlong turf race was 1:08 and 4. By the 6th furlong, Enriched had collared Liberian Freighter while the other 3 horses were at least 8 lengths behind. Liberian Freighter understandably tired and finished 4th. Enriched had every right to back up as well, but he never did. Instead, he kept up a good clip through the stretch, hitting the wire 9.25 lengths in front, stopping the clock in 1:33 and 1. While Enriched did slow a little, his final time stands out during a meet that has typically been producing times in the 1:34-35 range.

Evidently, Team Beyer was impressed with Enriched's performance because they gave it a 110. To put it in perspective, the next best turf Beyer so far this year is a 104, about 3 lengths inferior to Enriched.

The only downside about Enriched's performance is that it came in an allowance. According to the speed figure and the raw times, the performance would have been good enough to win almost any stakes, including the gr.1 Shoemaker Mile(on turf) to be run Memorial Day. Doug O'Neil, Enriched's trainer, is known to bring horses back quickly, and has been keeping Enriched on a 2-3 week schedule. Will he come back in 9 days with Enriched for the Shoemaker Mile? O'Neil could also come back in 2 weeks and run in the gr.1 Whittingham, but that race is at 10 furlongs.

Enriched has been about a year behind Lava Man in his developmental arc. Lava Man really started getting good in May of his 4 year old year. At age 5, it appears Enriched is now ready to hit the big-time too.

re: History of a Different Kind

Matthew W — Tue, 25 May 2010 05:50:33 GMT

First Dude/Stay Put/Make Music For Me box, I'll leave out Nick for the exacta, hoping to get paid---Zito is not my idea of a good trainer to bet at low odds--always a contender, though, so a good longshot guy....I will try to beat him with the Dude-er-rino! And I, for one, think this crop is a decent enough crop, even without Esky it's good, and The Belmont still will be a good race with good horses...just like the other two this has been a very good betting Triple Crown! good races!

re: History of a Different Kind

LAZMANNICK — Tue, 25 May 2010 04:40:59 GMT

Embur's Song ran a great race a fifth of a second off the track record for 1-1/16M. Her time was 3 seconds faster than Biofule's (the next day), and she set all the pace. Biofuel defeated three horses coming off wins (2 from Keeneland) and I hear that she is going to point to the Coaching Club Oaks. Embur's Song is a Canadian Bred trained by Todd Pletcher and is coming off a win at Keeneland. She is probably aiming for the Canadian Oaks and possibly the Queen's Plate. She looks like the real deal. LOL

re: History of a Different Kind

Johar — Tue, 25 May 2010 03:16:41 GMT

Maybe going a bit off topic here, but why all the negativity about this year's Belmont? It's the best betting race the Belmont has seen in years. It's a wide open affair complete with Derby/Preakness horses, new up-and-comers, longshots, the whole lot. I think it's going to be a great race, and a lot better than most of the 6 horse fields of recent years.

It's a horse race, people. Enjoy it, live it, and let's get some new fans involved. Cut them in on your trifecta wheel tickets (and be sure to put Stay Put in there!). I think racing is killing itself by crying about "no triple crown contender". There have been many great races and racehorses that didn't involve the triple crown.

I'll take:

1 - Ice Box

2 - Stay Put

3 - Make Music For Me

re: History of a Different Kind

nmhiplains — Tue, 25 May 2010 03:14:35 GMT

Slewbaby

Lexington raced four miles in 17:19 3/4 in 1885 average of 13.75sec Furlong slowest mile in 1:52 1/4,fastest in 1:47 1/4---You will find Lexington's blood flows in most of the Thoroughbreds in the states today.

You can bet his owner probably rode him four or more miles everyday from the plantation to the tavern---TWICE A DAY

Slow gallop into town -

High gallop back ---Scarlet waited dinner for know one---Stamina is a matter of conditioning for routes.

No vehicles in 1885 YOU rode your horses they didn't stand in the stall and two or three heats of four miles with ten minutes of rest between heats was the usually challenge ---THE BELMONT would have been a SPRINT!!!!

Train for a sprint you get a sprinter. THEORY however a horse is like a five gallon bucket at 22--46 your dumping (after the first furlong SPLEEN) lactic acid into the bucket at a rate of 1 1/2 gpf. Four furlongs the buckets full and the racehorses hits the wall at the 12.5-13 sec furlong your only dumping 1 gallon and can

go futher and Fast Twitch muscle cells can be utilize some of the lactic acid (quart? or more depends on conditioning) Point is you have to condition at routes filling the bucket to the top without spilling over changing slow twitch cells into fast twitch cells

PACE makes the race

You get what you train for

The old Trainers conditioned 1/8 further than route enter in at 12.5--13 sec furlong rate

re: History of a Different Kind

nmhiplains — Tue, 25 May 2010 02:10:49 GMT

Slewbaby

Stamina is a result of conditioning for lactic acid tolerance at route distance (mile or longer 12/5-13.5 Furlong rate) and as long as trainer condition at 4-6 furlongs and their goal is the bullet work of the day we wouldn't have a Triple Crown Winner

Any possible future TCW and present winner/track record holders should get a big ASTERIX besides his name because of the juice running through his veins

LASSIX-- or Barry Bonds favorite cocktail running in their veins

steriods----ASTERIX*****

JASON

QUESTION

WAS DR FAGER's mile records broken by horses running without the benefit of LASSIX!!!

WHO was the last HOY that raced without the benefit of LASSIX!!!

re: History of a Different Kind

PomDeTerre — Mon, 24 May 2010 23:56:05 GMT

Gre and MZ-

thanks for your nice words (and everyone else I missed)

MZ- I'm in upstate ny- about 20 minutes from saratoga. But when yer screen name means "potato", I guess you can see the Idaho connection.

re: History of a Different Kind

So Cal Racer — Mon, 24 May 2010 23:55:27 GMT

2010 weird year for the TC...favorite of the KY..Lookin Lucky won at Preakness yet TR: Baffert back out on Belmont, TR: Pletcher a one time hit wonder on KY Derby back out on Belmont with SS.. just to show that trainer all care is make money...how about be part of history win or at least run on all the Triple...wasted trainer...no wonder there's no TC winner yet... will the trainer of Seatle Slew or Scretariat be reapeted? NOT if this kind trainer does not have the heart and desire to WIN or TRY winning it... money..money but you'll never be remember in history...what a shame.

re: History of a Different Kind

ETHAN — Mon, 24 May 2010 23:10:04 GMT

If they don't see which horses can run at 12 Furlongs how would they ever be able to breed genes for doing that sort of thing back in.

YOu can't breed horses for a distance unless you have racing at that distance.

Geting rid of the Belmont wouldn't really slove anything