The Polls Are In!

re: The Polls Are In!

Eloise — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:16:24 GMT

I fully agree that Point Given was the best! I watched him closely for every race. But when the horses came out from the barn for the Kentucky Derby, I saw how distracted he was by the helicopters and banners and all the stuff in the sky that he hadn't had to contend with during races before. That's where he lost the race.

re: The Polls Are In!

Shannon — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:57:05 GMT

I Have to agree that Spectacular Bid was the best, But I also agree that Afleet Alex should be in there

re: The Polls Are In!

Amateurcapper — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:14:37 GMT

SPECTACULAR BID!!! The big gray was the closest thing to a superhorse I've ever seen. He beats them all...Alysheba, Smarty Jones, Sunday Silence and Point Given are the others in order of preference.

re: The Polls Are In!

Johnny — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:57:47 GMT

Jim, if you look at the Timeform ratings, the horses are very close. Sea-Bird tops the list with a rating of 145, followed by Secretariat at 144. Ribot was third, can't remember the fourth horse off-hand, but know it wasn't an American. My all-time favorite horse, the immortal Citation, is 5th overall with a 142, and "Big Cy's" damsire Hyperion might have been next. Spectacular Bid had a 141, so the numbers confuse me a little, because, as you said, he was ninth overall, and Citation was 5th at 142.

The great Sea-Bird raced only 8 times in his career, and won 7 of those. His win in the 1965 Prix de l' Arc de Triomphe was the most impressive single race performance I've ever seen. I didn't see the race live, but have watched it many times on the Internet.

I do take issue with the Timeform ratings however, because Man o'War was put too low, and I don't know where Kelso and Dr. Fager rank on it.

re: The Polls Are In!

Jessica H. — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:39:20 GMT

Spectacular Bid in a runaway. Alysheba and Sunday Silence in second and third. Silver Charm fourth.

re: The Polls Are In!

Paul — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:32:52 GMT

Afleet Alex?

re: The Polls Are In!

Mr. Freeze — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:05:35 GMT

How about a poll on the best horse to finish last in the Derby?

re: The Polls Are In!

Jim — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 01:42:04 GMT

Spectacular Bid, a "no doubt about it" answer. Timeform rated him #9 in the world for the 20th Century and #3 in the U.S. He went off at 1-20 eight times; was a champion at 2,3,&4; he set 8 track records; he set the world record for a 1 1/4 miles on dirt, which may still stand; he carried 130 lbs or more 5 times; he had the only Walkover in 60 years when nobody showed to race him in the Woodward; according to Shoemaker, he was the best he ever rode; numerous experts have named him the best they've ever seen. In short, he was the best horse by the meanest stallion in US racing history.

re: The Polls Are In!

wilson prince — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 12:49:24 GMT

Silver Charm, in my book. He never had the blowaway margins that some of the others had, but he was the most game, and when he was at his best, I'd take him over any of the others considered here.

re: The Polls Are In!

Matthew W — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 08:51:20 GMT

On a cool windy day in Feb 1980, my brother and I went to Santa Anita to see 'The Bid vs three in the 'Strub....I watched Bud Delp and his horse as they walked to the saddling barn, Bud was in his loud plaid suit, he was classic, I saw greatness in the man, yes I did.....The Bid was rather leggy and not overly muscular, and when Flying Paster walked out of the saddling area to the vast, open walking ring of Santa Anita, there were "ohhs/ahhs" over his beautiful look---he was a very good horse----Valdez, the Travers winner, was a beautiful Chestnut trained by Laz Barrera (the GREAT Laz Barrera--- Relaunch, the big grey turfer was majestic----The Bid was rather ordinary looking to me----my brother and I were stationed at the "Clockers Corner", at the top of the SA stretch---they broke in front of us, as they ran by us, a guy yells "attaboy Eddie"---refering to Eddie D, as he gunned Relaunch into a suicide pace---Shoe took The Bid into the race early, making an amazing clubhouse turn move reminicent of Secretariat's Preakness----the fractions are like 1:32 with Bid in front and 'Paster coming---at the Clockers Corner you can see horses tiring on the turn--they lose their lean as they lose their strength----I'll never forget Spectacular Bid into a full lean on that turn, after those fractions, thats where I saw the greatness--in that fleeting moment, coming off the turn in full flight----GREATNESS! Everyone has their favorites, having seen him only that one time in person, I woundn't bet on any horse to beat Spectacular Bid!!!!

re: The Polls Are In!

Johnny — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 04:13:16 GMT

Although this discussion is about horses that raced in the Triple Crown, comments were made about Ghostzapper being "overrated," and having a "soft Breeders Cup." I'd like to respond to those comments.

When Smarty Jones wasn't voted Horse of the Year, I was at first disappointed; that is, until I learned more about Ghostzapper and watched his races. If Ghostzapper didn't deserve to be HOY, then in my opinion, no horse did.

In the 2004 Breeders' Cup Classic, Ghostzapper beat a previous Horse of the Year, a previous BC Classic/Dubai World Cup winner, a future DWC winner, and another horse that had earned $4 million. He won by 3 lengths in a record clocking of 1.59:02. Prior to the BC, he defeated the following year's BC Classic winner and eventual HOY, in the Woodward.

In his career, Ghostzapper had Beyer figures in the 120s four times. He was unbelievably fast, and could win at any distance from 6 furlongs to 1 1/4 miles. A truly brilliant racehorse.

re: The Polls Are In!

Billy D. — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 22:28:49 GMT

On this Point I agree, however the question was who was the best horse to fall one leg short of the triple crown. Up to the Belmont I'd Argue Sunday Silence was every bit as good as the 'Bid.' Also 'Bid' had no great rival like Easy Goer to make it more interesting, unless you count Flying Paster, whom I believe to be an imitation of Run Dusty Run. Overall the Bid had a monster 4 yr. old season.

re: The Polls Are In!

Matthew W — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:17:07 GMT

I saw 'Bid at Santa Anita win the 'Strub, and was the best horse I ever saw, and I saw Affirmed and Seattle Slew.....but Smarty Jones was a beast, certainly the best horse to not win "horse of year"---that went to the overated Ghostzapper and his soft Breeders Cup where Roses In May was content to finish second and they set a slow pace---but you can't go wrong with Spectacular Bid---he had it all....

re: The Polls Are In!

Rivercitysmitty — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 14:33:04 GMT

I have to go with Risen Star whose trainer didn`t realize the horse had a lot of natural speed. The next two legs were runaways when he was kept closer to the pace.

re: The Polls Are In!

Johnny — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 01:31:39 GMT

If you look at the entire body of work, no other horse in this poll touches Spectacular Bid.

re: The Polls Are In!

Householder — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 00:17:33 GMT

I loved Sunday Silence...saw him win the San Felipe and Santa Anita Derby over D Wayne Lukas' highly touted 2 million dollar Houston. But what also sticks in my mind is Easy Goer's walk around Belmont (of course breeding wins this). Had it been closer...Sunday Silence.

re: The Polls Are In!

Lori U — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:55:12 GMT

Affirmed and Spectacular Bid only raced against each other once, and of course, like all his races he needed the rail to win. He only beat The Bid like by a half length or something. One meeting decides who is best, I don't think so. But you can't deny the fact that he had to have that rail to win. Take a look at the 1978 Travers Stakes and what they did to Alydar in a desparate attempt to get to that RAIL, they nearly killed him. I wonder what would have happened if Affirmed had gone outside Alydar like he should have. He would not have won, that's what would have happened. Alydar clearly had the rail position in that race, take a look at the tape. It was a desperation move to push Alydar into the rail to get his needed position in order to win because he was unable to win races going around other horses, HE NEEDED THAT RAIL.

re: The Polls Are In!

Lori — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:38:23 GMT

I can tell you, in one simple answer, why those two jockeys teamed up against Smarty Jones in Belmont Stakes, it is because they were jealous that Stewart Elliot would become the jockey of the 12th Triple Crown winner and not them. They wanted to be riding the Triple Crown winner. In horseracing, it's all about jealousy, plain and simple. Also, the only reason Marylou Whitney & Nick Zito entered Birdstone in the Belmont was because they were jealous and wanted to do their part to ruin any chance of Smarty winning. If Birdstone was really a classic contender he would not have skipped the Preakness. This happens all the time, it's sickening the amount of raw jealousy floating around in this sport. I believe it was Jerry Baily on Edington and Gary Stevens on Rock Hard Ten. TRUST ME, there was no way Jerry Baily and Gary Stevens were going to allow a nobody like Steward Elliot to get what they SO BADLY wanted in their careers, a triple crown winner. As far as Marylou Whitney goes, Birdstone's owner, she is another jealous individual of anyone who has something her wealthy family doesn't. I'll tell you one thing though, the Whitney's will never breed anything good enough to win a derby. Remember her comments after Birdstone won the Belmont, they were and I quote "I'm sorry my horse won". She wasn't sorry about anything, she and Nick Zito accomplished exactly what they wanted to accomplish, make sure that Smarty horse doesn't win. Because Birdstone didn't win the 3 year old championship that, Smarty did, and if they were trying to win the top 3 year old award they would have run him in the Preakness.

re: The Polls Are In!

Davetg — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:35:33 GMT

There are certainly a lot of great ones that fell short of the Triple Crown, but Bid is apart from all of them. He is likely one of the top 5 all-time anyway, and that Belmont is the only thing that keeps many from arguing he may have been the best.

re: The Polls Are In!

Billy D. — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:09:42 GMT

I say it's Sunday Silence by a nose over the 'Bid' simply because 'Silence' not only beat a great rival in Easy Goer 3 out of four, and a stellar cast of older horses as something Spectacular Bid failed to do (see the 1979 JC Gold Cup)as according to Barrera alluding to 'Bid' after the '79 JC gold Cup, "he got the weight (advantage), the Shoe and got beat"! 'Nuff said.

re: The Polls Are In!

TH — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:20:40 GMT

AFLEET ALEX HOW HE DIDNT WIN THE DERBY STILL AMAZES ME. GIACAMO PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK. LUCKIEST HORSE TO WIN DERBY OF ALL TIME

re: The Polls Are In!

Cappinstud — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:24:42 GMT

All very good comments. Thanks for the poll. Bid wins this match up. Afleet Alex and Point Given could also have won this. Point Given showed up and won virtually every important race in his career outside of the Derby. Losing the first leg still counts as a TC near miss doesn't it? Point Given and Afleet Alex definitely merit consideration in this.

re: The Polls Are In!

Castle — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:26:00 GMT

I saw all of these horses race in person, and while the Bid was indeed spectacular, Smarty should and would have won the crown if the other riders had not decided to team-tag him all away around the track. It was a shocking thing to behold from the grandstand, and while much discussed since then, I've always wondered why the owners of the horses who were sent after Smarty instead of being ridden to win didn't protest.

re: The Polls Are In!

Lori Urban — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:23:25 GMT

The only reason Spectacular Bid lost the Belmont Stakes is because his jockey was a complete numbskull. Ronnie Franklin cost The Bid the crown and everybody knows it. If Bill Shoemaker had been riding him he'd be in the books as the 11th Triple Crown winner right now. Clearly, when you put a jockey on a horse they have no business being on, bad things will happen and a very bad thing happended that day because of Ronnie Franklin, The great Spectacular Bid was denied a Triple Crown because of his incompetence. It still makes me seeth 29 years later that they could have put this joke of a jockey on this great horse. Spectacular Bid was awesome and I would have loved to see how Ghostzapper would stand up to him, well wait a minute, Ghostzapper would never be able to stand up to a horse like The Bid because Ghostzapper needed, what, 6 months between races. Ghostzapper would have only been able to race against him once, and after running against The Bid he would have needed like 2 years before he could race again. That's what considered a great race horse these days. Pathetic. And someone will breed a mare to him for $200,000 so they can get a horse that will run maybe, what, say twice a year and pass on those inferior soundness qualities. So a grandson to Ghostzapper will run perhaps once a year if their inferior soundness breeding allows them.

re: The Polls Are In!

Travis — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:52:49 GMT

How you can compare any of these to Curlin at this point is rediculas