Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

tjconway — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 02:39:11 GMT

I get a kick out of people who thik this is one of the better crops of 3-year-olds........what a joke! What will be Uncle Mo's time in the Wood? 1:51 4/5? Oh the sarcasm!

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Mike Relva — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 00:18:33 GMT

TOM FV

Let me correct you,cause you seem to believe you are bright,maybe you are. I'm NOT the least bit concerned about Pletcher beating John for trainer of the yr. Let's be clear,ok? I got what I wanted(and so did connections) when Zenyatta won HOY. Don't like Pletcher cause I don't, wouldn't ever speak to him if we ever ran into one another. I'm a individual of principle,don't talk alot of bs,when I state wouldn't speak or shake hands,it's not talk,it's fact. Your perception for the reason of my dislike for him is unfounded.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Forbidden Apple — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:33:54 GMT

You will not even say what your connection is to the racetrack. You are the one who jumped in and started attacking me first. I was having an exchange with Jason, he can handle himself quite well. And I respect and value his statements, not yours.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Jason Shandler — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:31:28 GMT

Servis is a class act. Hope he gets another big horse.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Tom F V — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:26:54 GMT

No Carlos I didn't. I said that a lot of trainers can have a great horse or maybe even 2 or three. If you take it that he falls there, then that's up to you.

Although others are making comparisons between several HOF/future HOF trainers and John. Totally different scenarios, methodology, stable set ups etc.

Although I'm sure that a lot of people who are as big of Smarty Jones fans as some are Zenyatta fans, would take umbrage that you are considering Servis' accomplishments with THAT horse minimal when compared to John.

I'm speaking to training a lot of horses to great success over many years.

I have the utmost respect for John and what he accomplished with Zenyatta and even a couple others.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Carlos in Cali — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 19:44:40 GMT

Tom FV

Did you just compare Ritchey,Ice,Servis and Wooley to Sherrifs?..

Oh,boy!

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Tom F V — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 19:27:17 GMT

Trainer etc, even though an owner listens to them doesn't mean they still don't hold the cards.

You're a bit juvenile aren't you?

So to communciate on your level get a clue and then get a life.

Like I said, I make my living via the game in several areas.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Forbidden Apple — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:57:57 GMT

I not only work there, but I have been attending live racing for more than 30 years. Anyway, if you are not a trainer, ast. trainer, or exercise rider then I do not care what you say or think. You are most likely the guy who walks around with Dunkin Donuts and talks a good game.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Tom F V — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:49:12 GMT

FA do my comments present as an owner who thinks they know more than their trainer? I don't think so, I think it's just the opposite.

You may do it for the "fun" of it and therefore apparently feel no responsibility, I do it for a living and know what harm innuendo and false reports or accusations can do.

Apples and oranges. A PROVEN scandal vs speculation. My problem with your sort is you present that you know things for a fact when you don't know much more than the average track goer, if as much because you are definitely biased and apparently on some type of misguided crusade.

Didn't mean to offend your delicate sensibilities but you don't hesitate to dish out the nastiness, yet take offense at questions or responses to your STATEMENTS of fact when you are hidden behind your FA name?

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Tom F V — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:42:21 GMT

I am curious though about this comment: "He is only speculating about my time spent every morning at 5 am on the Oklahoma training track come spring time."

Saratoga in the spring? Does that give you a lot of info as to what is going on AT the races? Not being insulting just curious what true insight that gives you.

If you have a reservation for the tour anyone can go on the backside during the meet.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

stevebiscuit — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:36:17 GMT

Stick to handicapping, Jason. That's what you keep telling people you're good at, though it seems you're not doing so hot according to THS's Running Bet Totals for the year. I guess according to your criteria, Pletcher is a better trainer than Charlie Whittingham.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Footlick — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:22:20 GMT

Tom F V, Forbidden Apple et al- I posted previously in response to Jason and I think it probably covers what each of you have said- with the exception of the bullwhip. I get things off my chest and then I go on.

Just keep blogging everyone, but remember that we are responsible for what we say, so before we hit submit make sure it is what you want associated with your monicker.

Later!

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Forbidden Apple — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:22:14 GMT

So are you an owner who knows more than a trainer?

I stand behind everything that I wrote. Tell me exactly what has made you throw out fighting words. According to your logic, a new baseball fan should never hear about the Black Sox scandal, a new football fan should never hear about rampant steroid use, come on and get real already. This is the age of information and the internet. I said nothing that has not already been written about in the media. The only subject matter that does not get written about is the backstretch life. I don't live there, but I know what the workers have to deal with. Most latinos do not stand up for their rights, either for the fact that they are illegal or they fear backlash from the white man in charge of their paycheck. I am a U.S. citizen and have no fears. I apologize again for damaging your cyber feelings. I walk horses in the morning for the simple pleasure of being around horses and learning more and more about the training of horses. I have a regular job and don't have time to be a groom or take on the headaches of learning to become a foreman after that. The fact that I never asked about the hourly wage in 2009 proves the fact that I'm not in it for the money. It is hard work for little pay.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Footlick — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:11:42 GMT

Jason- I do understand that. Believe me. There are so many posts on so many sites, not just this one, that I think how could somebody just say that? I maintain it has to do with the nature of posting under a false name. If you have integrity, you feel a responsibility for what you post and you won't post something libelous. And if somebody does, they do need to be called out for it and criticized. I also believe in educating, though. I know that many on here cannot be educated-lol. I also feel that criticism can be harsh but not insulting. You are correct to be harsh with people who libel somebody by innuendo and intimation. You have called people out before and asked them to either provide proof or stop. I appreciate that. There should not be room on any blog for that, really. But you are a very liberal blog master ( I just had a visual of you with a bullwhip-yikes!) and allow quite a bit through which makes your blog entertaining and fun also. I just don't like things getting personal and insulting. So every once in a while I make my post about everyone being nice and then I just start reading the blog again. I do enjoy your blogs, otherwise I wouldn't be here blogging and caring. Sorry to go on and on. You do a great job, but you'd do a better on e with a virtual bullwhip that you could brand certain blogs with then comment. Sorry to go on and on. I'll stop now! Thanks again Jason

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Tom F V — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:50:53 GMT

Forbidden Apple, then don't make comments which make you suspect.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Tom F V — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:43:40 GMT

Footlick, the comments are idiotic, didn't say the people were just that they didn't do any research before throwing out libelous, defammatory and yes, idiotic, comments.

I did give all the info, the others gave opinion, innuendo and erroneous details to support their positions.

When people try to give insightful information, some people with agendas just think they know more won't listen and they are the ones who start the insults.

People on here forget they really don't know who is reading, who they're actually talking to and who might actually know some of these people who are dissected. Most people in the game don't come on a blog site and anonymously attack their colleagues in the game. They usually are either cautious or they just say what they think without a veil of anonymity.

FA, I'm not a trainer but I am involved in the game and I do know the good, the bad and the ugly.

It's been said before that these off the cuff comments that are just thrown out to bolster the ego of the person saying them are not helpful to racing. Your type of comments and false accusations or information are detrimental. You keep saying "I just said", no you said way too much.

Some comments are ridiculous and outrageous said mostly for effect, like Draynay, and some comments are actually hurtful, defammatory and libelous.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Forbidden Apple — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:27:35 GMT

Footlick,

Your recent post is right on and I repect and appreciate your comments. Sure I have my opinions, but I can't sit back and be insulted by Tom FV. He is only speculating about my time spent every morning at 5 am on the Oklahoma training track come spring time.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Jason Shandler — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:15:00 GMT

Footlick: When people write libelous things about a trainer, they leave themselves open to harsh criticism. That's only fair.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Footlick — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:06:35 GMT

Jason- I didn't debate. I never said Shirreffs was a better trainer. I said just give all the info. It seems too much to do, I guess.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Footlick — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:04:09 GMT

I was going to post something else, but this seems to have become sort of personal and I'd rather not participate. Those of you who feel you have superior knowledge can either impart your wisdom in a way that educates or in a way that insults. If you choose to insult people, they will shut down and not listen. I feel most people on this blog here are intelligent. Just because somebody is not in the business does not mean they are not intelligent nor does it mean that they cannot have an opinion that is valid. If their opinion is factually wrong, then educate them and tell them the correct information. Don't insult them and infer that they are idiots. Those who are in the business may feel they have superior knowledge, but that is why we have historians and statisticians, because people tend to be biased as to what they think is correct or should be stated and not be stated. I'm not naive enough to think this is going to have an impact on most here, but I just wanted to state my opinion. Thanks

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Tom F V — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:55:44 GMT

John did a great job with Zenyatta.

Lighting strikes quite a bit in this game, lets see, Tim Ritchey, Tim Ice, John Servis, Chip Wooley and a whole bunch of other trainers that anyone outside of racing would have to think very hard about or look up just to remember who they were.

Trainers like Zito, Baffert, Lukas, Mott, Pletcher etc get/got those large numbers of horses NOT because they are businessmen but because they have sustained results over a long period of time and frankly have won races with horses that under other trainers would have never won. That's horsemanship.

While we're on analogies.

They aren't one hit wonders, who are top of the charts one day and on the "where are they now" show the next year. Some of them may now, 25-30 years later, be not quite as prolific or as prominent but they have rewritten the history books for all time and just like Charlie Whittingham, Bobby Frankel, Woody Stephens etc, they won't be forgotten by this industry.

When you look at the big picture, look at what Todd has accomplished in a relatively short career which started with a few of Jake's horses and was on shaky ground. Yes, Wayne filtered some owners his way but he has had a lot of assistants who have had that same benefit but who just didn't have the same certain "it" to be super successful. Give credit where credit is due. Anything less is petty and small-minded and reeks of jealousy and envy.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Forbidden Apple — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:48:44 GMT

Okay Tom FV,

Are you a trainer?

The only thing you can dispute that I wrote is about the death of 3 horses back in 2002. And I used the word mystery, I never claimed to know what really happened. You are attacking me for no reason at all.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Jason Shandler — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:26:35 GMT

Footlick: No matter what numbers you go by Pletcher is better--wins, win %, graded wins, earnings, in-the-money %, etc. As I said, there is a reason that Pletcher has as many horses as he does, and a reason that Shirreffs has the number that he does. That's why every day baseball players get 550 at-bats a year and pinch-hitters get 150. The better players play more. The fact that we're even debating this is nuts.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

Tom F V — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 05:22:34 GMT

FA you are so wrong. I never said he was my golden boy. I said you are full of bull. I've said you have an axe to grind against people you don't even know and I will guarantee that.

Mike, I agree with you on some things and disagree on others. BUT I know that you are basing your opinion of Todd on nothing more than your likes and dislikes and your perception that he is cheating John out of trainer of the year. It is historical for that award in most cases, not always but that is very rare.

Go back and read my posts and what I've said about your favorites.

I still say that people like FA who pretend to actually know what is going on is garbage.

FA I'll be in Saratoga, lets see where you are. LOL.

As far as being a good horseman? Please, you people need to realize that Todd cut his teeth in horse racing, he walked hots for Jake at age 8, he has a degree from U of A in Animal Science from their prestigious racing program. He has worked for what most people who actually KNOW horse racing, consider to be some of the greatest HORSEMEN and trainers in the game. ONE of which, dear stevebiscuit, was the legendary Charlie Whittingham.

People please do your research before you throw these idiotic comments out there.

re: Three Derby Sleepers to Watch

stevebiscuit — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 04:54:50 GMT

Jason, if you're simple-minded enough to think that the only measure of a good trainer is his number of wins then that's your problem. That's like saying that because Mike Mitchell has won more races than Neil Drysdale, Bob Baffert, or Nick Zito that it somehow makes him a better trainer than the 3 of them. It's just not that simple.