33 Years and Counting

re: 33 Years and Counting

Householder — Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:46:59 GMT

The proof is in the "bob" on Real Quiet. Another 1/2 foot his head comes back up in front of Victory Gallop's.

Kent moved way too soon. He had 6-7 length lead top of the stretch and was attempting to extend this. Had he relaxed a bit he would not of come up short against Victory Gallop.

Not a bad $17,000 purchase and a horse who played second fiddle to his stablemate Indian Charlie who was undefeated coming into the Derby.

We all watched the wrong Baffert horse.

re: 33 Years and Counting

WhiteCamry — Mon, 27 Jun 2011 12:42:50 GMT

The Travers is nicknamed "The Summer Derby." It's the same profile as the KD - 10f on the dirt for 3yo's, except it's run at Saratoga in August, when the 3yos will have had three months to grow.

I mention this because, when switching out the KD for the TS for a Preakness-Belmont-Travers Triple, an interesting list forms:

2001 - Point Given

1967 - Damascus

1953 - Native Dancer

1941 - Whirlaway

1920 - Man o' War

1880 - Grenada

1878 - Duke of Magenta

re: 33 Years and Counting

Weekend — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:38:01 GMT

Empire Maker!!!!!! He was a beast. Easiest bet I ever made in the Belmont.

re: 33 Years and Counting

yankeetrev — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 18:39:15 GMT

Deacon - I believe the example you gave could very well have had an impact on the race outcome. Which was exactly my point. To have an impact there has to be a huge disparity (like the 30lb difference you mentioned). My main point was that the difference between 126lbs and 115lbs are meaningless.

Just curious on Seabiscuits off odds that day? You'd think if everyone in the stable area knew that he had no chance to win with the weight assigned he would have been 4-1. But I am guessing he wasn't, the talk on the backstretch was all hindsight which we all know how helpful that is in racing/handicapping.....

re: 33 Years and Counting

goldengrrls — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 16:15:47 GMT

Boy, did we ever get spoiled in the 70's! If only we had known, we could have savored it even more so... My vote will always go to Barbaro. He only won the Kentucky Derby, but the first time I saw him, he took my breath away. What a big, powerful horse, he just had the look of a champion. I thought - here's our Triple Crown winner, at last! Of course, everyone knowns the story, broke my heart, couldn't even watch the Kentucky Derby the following year.

As for Big Brown, makes the case against medicating race horses all the more! He had spectacular reserve speed in the first two races, but when he got to the Belmont, which was the first race after being off cortisone for a full month, he had nothing. The difference was shocking. It might have been due to racing with a patched hoof, but we'll never know for sure.... So we wait for the next Triple Crown winner....

re: 33 Years and Counting

The Deacon — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 05:37:44 GMT

Lazmannick: amen about Dr. Fager, I rest my case............

re: 33 Years and Counting

LAZMANNICK — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 01:53:44 GMT

Skyfire:

Dr. Fager carried the 139 lbs in his last race, the Vosburgh, when he got the 7F in 1.20.1, with the first 6F in 1.07.4. Two races previous, in the Washington Park Handicap when he set the world’s record for a mile at 1.32.1, he carried 134 lbs. and in that race he got the 6F in 1.07.3 (which is I believe the fastest he had ever run 6F). Those two races were part of an 8 race streak where he carried 130 lbs or more (134 twice in wins and 135 when 2nd to Damascus in the Brooklyn, who also carried 130 lbs.)

Another interesting fact is that Dr. Fager’s half sister, Ta Wee, was also a great weight carrier and was assigned 130 lbs. plus several times and 140 in her second last race when defeating males in the Fall Highweight, and 142 in the Interborough, her last race, when defeating fillies.

re: 33 Years and Counting

Racingfan — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 00:48:32 GMT

Linda in Texas: absolutely no apology needed!!!! :-) I understood what you said. I only wanted to clarify for those who like to blame today's "unsoundness" on him since most of the horses racing are related to him. His injuries were just that and they can happen any time to any horse-it was not a defect or inherent unsoundness. A simple fact that is lost on those who want to place blame!

re: 33 Years and Counting

kittybay — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:56:11 GMT

Real Quiet was robbed by his own rider. Kent totally misjudged just how long that killer Belmont stretch is. You can't roll to the lead turning for home like you can on all of the other racetracks. The fact that RQ managed to only lose by a nose is un-freakin-believable. I also voted for the Bid & Afleet Alex, they were amazing creatures on the track.

re: 33 Years and Counting

Ms Easy Goer — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:52:11 GMT

For me, there will never be another horse to compare to Easy Goer. And Joe, you are right- the only thing (except his ankles) that could beat him was Pat Day. His Belmont record is second to only Big Red himself. He still owns the Gotham and a handful of other records. Down, inside was not the place for a huge locomotive of a horse to be in the Preakness. And the Kentucky Derby was one big head shaker. I still miss him and I cannot understand how anyone can even say Sunday Silence was in the same zipcode. Afleet Alex and Prairie Bayou are my second and third heart horses. Afleet Alex, Point Given and Hansel are who I think were spot on for TCs. Yes, the Bid of course. The only horse to give me any sort of excitment in the last few years is Get Stormy "Clyde". There is just something about him that I adore. Hey NY- When will you finally name a stakes after 'Goer? He was NY's Easy Goer and still- NO RACE!!! How about renaming the Gotham? Every minor horse going has a race. What disrespect.

re: 33 Years and Counting

-Keelerman — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:35:36 GMT

Zookeeper;

Rapid Redux is going to try for win number thirteen straight tonight at Penn National in the seventh race. Post time is 8:29 ET. Only four horses are scheduled to race against him.

-Keelerman

re: 33 Years and Counting

The Deacon — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:08:35 GMT

Gun Bow: The "Bid" was simply amazing, one of the best....

Skyfire: Glad someone out there besides me recognizes the greatness of Dr. Fager.

Yankeetrev: I am going to respectfully disagree with your assessment of weight. The fact is, if carrying weight was that simple or easy then every race horse would be carrying it. Weight or too much of it can help break down a horse. Try strapping 15 or 20 pounds to your shoulders or ankles and go out and run 2 miles or more. I have been around this business for 56 years and this is the first time I have ever read where someone said "weight" isn't a factor. In 1938 Stagehand with legendary jockey Earl Sande aboard, carrying only 100 lbs won the Santa Anita Handicap by a nose over Seabiscuit who was carrying 130 lbs. You don't suppose 30 lbs made a difference that day. My dad (RIP) was at the track that day (before my time) and the buzz everywhere was that the weight between the two was the difference... I'm just saying my friend.......always ask the guys on the backstretch, the ones in the know, you will get all your answers.

LInda in Texas: Thanks for sharing your insight about Majestic Prince, I have all of his races saved to disc, I watch them quite often. He could have been one of the best, but that story has been told before. Glad you remembered........

re: 33 Years and Counting

Sue MacGray — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 19:00:58 GMT

Love this topic, although it was tough watching the "could have beens" once again. I loved Majestic Prince and I think he was found to have an injury after the Belmont, when he lost to Arts and Letters. Big Brown, to me, was always suspect because of Dutrow. Personally, I think Spectactular Bid, Afleet Alex and Smarty Jones were three that could have/should have, wont he Crown. I thought Afleet Alex was one of the toughest, best horses I ever saw run Jason. I'm in complete agreement with you on that one. I'm sure the jockeys had something to do with the close calls, but I just don't see horses that are tough enough. It did/will take a beast to win the TC and rise above all the things that can go wrong in not just one tough race, but 3 in a row with little time between. Look at the injuries/health issues on this year's trail - Premier Pegasus, The Factor, Jaycito, AAA, Uncle Mo, Pants on Fire, now Nehro and Animal Kingdom. They're dropping like flies - still.

re: 33 Years and Counting

yankeetrev — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 16:35:02 GMT

I see a few folks referring to the weight carried by Fager & the Bid in their races....

You realize that the little amount of weight that is assigned has absolutely zero bearing on the outcome of the performance. It is literally like strapping a Big Mac sandwich to Carl Lewis = it's irrelevant.

Ever wonder why the odds maker still makes Fager 1-9 on the morning line despite a 10 lb allowance?

The fact is they would have to add 60,70,80lbs to make a difference in the race result. Please don't use weight in your handicapping, it is a complete farce.

And not taking anything away from Fager or Bid - but the weight issue has nothing to do with their greatness. If they were dragging the weight behind them on a sled then something could be said but they are carrying it and it doesn't mean a thing to these powerful animals.

re: 33 Years and Counting

Linda in Texas — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 16:16:17 GMT

Racingfan, i believe that is what i stated, Native Dancer's issues were with recurring foot injuries (no doubt because of exactly what you stated). Raise A Native had a bowed tendon. And Majestic Prince a problem with his right front tendon.

If i led you to believe i was saying they all three had tendon problems, that was not what i stated and i apologize if you misunderstood.

re: 33 Years and Counting

josh — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:43:56 GMT

For those who care (I know this isn't the proper place to put it, but oh well)

Endorsement, the 2010 Sunland Park Derby winner worked for the first time since he was injured before the 2010 Kentucky Derby. Just thought I'd let y'all know.

re: 33 Years and Counting

2:24 — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:57:01 GMT

Criminal Type - I agree wholeheartedly with your outrage regarding Alydar. Almost made me give up horse racing.

re: 33 Years and Counting

Criminal Type — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:04:34 GMT

There may be horses racing in the Calumet colors, I understand the Kwaitkowski family uses them, but none have been champions. This is not the same Calumet Farm it once was.

What I said in my earlier post was Criminal Type was the last CHAMPION to race in the Calumet silks. Calumet bred Switch but she is owned by CRK stables (Lee & Susan Searing) The initials CRK are for each of their children. Trust More was bred and is owned by the Kwaitkowski family.

Needler, I still get furious when I think about what that sad excuse for a human being at Calumet did to Alydar. I like to believe what comes around goes around but this man and his little band of cohorts have not paid nearly enough in my mind. Also, Needler if you have not read the book WILD RIDE (the rise and fall of Calumet Farm) by Anne Hagadorne Auerbach, you should, it's a very enlightening book.

re: 33 Years and Counting

Smoking Baby — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:58:09 GMT

tjconway...I'll add to your list if I may.

Dahlia

Allez France

Alleged

Youth

Mr. Prospector

re: 33 Years and Counting

GunBow — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:52:51 GMT

To further The Deacon's point about Spectacular Bid, the Bid actually IS the last male horse to be champion at 2, 3, and 4.

Since the Bid, the only 2 year old male champ to repeat at 3 has been Lookin at Lucky. Unfortunately because of the demands of breeding, Lucky' was not allowed the opportunity to win an Eclipse as an older horse.

There have been 5 male horses since Bid to win an Eclipse as champion 3 year old and then win another Eclipse as champion older male. These 5 are: Slew o' Gold, Alysheba, Skip Away(won 2 Eclipse awards as older horse), Tiznow, and Curlin(HoY at 3 and 4, something even Bid can't claim).

re: 33 Years and Counting

Holysmoke — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 08:03:40 GMT

Aleine

I am no fan of Jose Santos, not by a long shot. But he was totally cleared of shocking Funny Cide in the Derby. His fellow jocks waded in on that one and they'd be the first to shout foul if he had. I've watched close-ups of the race many times and the call was patently wrong. And it wasn't Santos who was done for public drunkenness - it was his daughter. Horrid shame to the family. But all this has nothing to do with the quality of Funny Cide. Again, I don't rate him with the greats. But he's a far better horse than those who've won the Kentucky Derby in the last few years. Smarty Jones and Afleet Alex were well deserving. But virtually none have been since. And Funny went on with his career, winning the Jockey Gold Cup. All the others were shoved into stud duty as fast as their owners could read a bank statement.

re: 33 Years and Counting

whippetgurl — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 05:06:34 GMT

I should have known that we couldn't get through this blog without a Zenyatta fan mentioning her. Folks, Zen didn't even race as a 3 yr old and only beat the boys ONCE!! so you can't count her! Also, I can't believe Real Quiet still doesn't get the respect he deserves. He was literally the closest thing we had to a TC winner.

re: 33 Years and Counting

KY VET — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 03:48:02 GMT

Of course there will be a triple crown winner soon...we might have if uncle mo wasnt sick(weak triple crown beyers this year).....Why will we? The most obvious reason,(no one has even mentioned) is the way the trainers have gotton smarter...less prep races! 2 races then the derby! Less tired horses! This is a big change, not one person on here has mentioned. Pletcher had perfect 2 prep plan, only to have mo get freak illness...perfect plan...cant keep a horse sharp for months people....

re: 33 Years and Counting

Paula Higgins — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 01:49:32 GMT

Karen in Texas, no I didn't see that in TIME! What a riot! Heck, hold it against him? No way. I will take a horse over a human athlete any day of the week. Jason and I have had the discusion already :). One other comment, I do not think Mike Smith cost Zenny the race. She wasn't handling the surface early on, had a rotten trip (thank you Quality Road) and ended up having to do too much at the end. This is from someone who loves Zenyatta more than life itself. Plus, Blame was a very good horse. Not chopped liver at all.

re: 33 Years and Counting

calico cat — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 00:39:47 GMT

Aleine,

When the evidence disprove a notion, go right ahead and cling to your mistaken belief. I suspect that you think the Earth is flat and that the moon landing happened in a Hollywood studio. Good grief!