Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Lowrider54 — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 21:32:50 GMT

There is a very lightly raced colt out there that most have forgotten about from what i've read so far. His name is Dunkirk, and winning is his game. I believe he's in the Tampa Bay Derby. If he takes control and wins this one, look out below. That will be his last race until THE KENTUCKY DERBY...

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Kathy — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 17:41:03 GMT

Since you were talking about Mr. Fantasy in the most current blog, I decided to ask everyone what Pioneerof the Nile's chances were in the Kentucky Derby in this appropriate topic blog. The current workout below looks pretty good.

This notice is to inform you that one or more of your horses has worked out.

Pioneerof the Nile

Your Comment:

Date: March 8, 2009

Track: SANTA ANITA PARK

Distance: Five Furlongs

Time: 58:80 Handily

Track Condition: Fast

Surface: All Weather Track

Rank: 1/85

And whereas I know he is good, do you think he will win the K.D.?

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Householder — Tue, 17 Feb 2009 02:51:45 GMT

I'm having good feelings about the Santa Anita Derby. The winner may not win the Kentucky Derby but someone out of the Santa Anita Derby will. Could be another Giacomo moment! We have Evita Argentina, Chocolate Candy, The Pamplemousse, Stardom Bound, I Want Revenge, and Pioneer of the Nile. We are ready to throw all of them at Old Fashioned.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

zarvona — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:37:27 GMT

ok ok ok ... "I will give you a DOZEN and then a DOZEN and a Dozen plus... (and shouldn't they all have been in POOl #1???...maybe an expansion to 48 horses makes more sense...), but who will stay healthy?, make the graded earnings required?, handle the traffic?, be in top 7 at the final turn and complete a romp to wire?? .. Well, it's tough to know at this point, but isn't that the fun in this game, predicting the future???!!! And, it is still the greatest 2 minutues in sports!!

"American Dance"; "Beethoven";

"Bear's Rocket"; "Big Drama";

"Break Water Edison";

"Capt. Candyman";

"Chocolate Candy";

"Charitable Man";

"Desert Party"; "Dunkirk";

"Flying Pegasus"; "Flying Private"

"Friesan Fire";

"General Quarters";

"Giant Oak";

"Haynesfield";

"Hello Broadway";

"Hold Me Back";

"I Want Revenge"; "Midshipman";

"Notonthesamepage";

"Nowhere To Hide"; "Old Fashion"

"Papa Clem"; "Patena";

"Pioneer of the Nile";

"Poltergeist"; "Stardom Bound" (f)

"The Pamlemousse"; "Theregoesjojo"

"Uno Mas"; "West Side Bernie";

??? "Gallant Son"; "Regal Ransom";

"Captain Cherokee";

"Danger or Society"; "Mr. Fantasy"

"Imerial Council"; and a few more slots remain open for the top 40 at this point!!!

I'll bet 15 or more of these go to the dance though, and yes, we'll see some newcomers pop up in the next 8 weeks to tickle us farther!!! Oh, did you want me to rank them too? NOT YET! Do you have a favorite among these or your favorites? ... Or another?! I don't know who will fill the 20 Slots at the Churchill gate yet, they all have a shot at getting there!! But, wasn't it a blast putting $100 on Giacomo in Pool #1 WHEN HE CROSSED THE FINISHED at 100-1!!!

Unfortunately the economy is going backward and the industry and thusly the Pool game is suffering, but hitting the Pool is like hitting the lottery!

FUN FUN FUN

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

capper — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:45:17 GMT

Hes starting late but your derby winner is running 2-14-09 in the 8th at gulfstream. Imperial Council

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Rechelle — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:52:27 GMT

Wanda,

Most of the Thoroughbreds I trained in Sask. went on to show careers, mainly because I didn't agree with the training of a foal at age of 1 to 2 years old. I prefer giving the foal time to grow up and mature before trying to put saddles on them. A few went to the track but that was mainly another trainer working them. I live in Texas now and my horses are either pleasure or show, no racehorses, again because of my beliefs. I don't like putting a saddle on a foal until he is at least 3yo. I prefer to do groundwork with them until then and teach them manners. Just my preference of course.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Wanda — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:57:42 GMT

Rechelle: If your raising race horses in Sask no way are they going to be 2yr old starters. You can't hardly raise a foal in Jan/Feb in this end of the world.{Western Canada}. So yea it makes sense to have later foaling dates, which in turn gives you 3yr old starters. I've had alot of Alta breds ex-rayed as 2yr olds, and none of them had mature enough knees in June.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Rechelle — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 15:33:18 GMT

Helsbells, I'm actually wondering if Stardom Bound will run either the Kentucky Derby or Oaks. She is running Apr. 2 in the Santa Anita Derby and IEAH doesn't like to turn their horse around as fast as it would take for her to go to post in the KO or the KD. I've mixed feelings about her being in the SA Derby, but it is on a better track, so hopefully she'll come through the race fine. I'm becoming a fast fan of the Pro Ride surface after we went through the entire Breeders Cup race weekend without a single catastrophic breakdown, which is the first time in recent years that has happened.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

helsbelles — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:25:15 GMT

Rechelle, You mentioned Riley Tucker which got me wondering whatever became of him... well, I'm happy to report that he won an allowance race(#2) at Santa Anita today (02/07).

That makes sense, the bones not being fully formed yet... and fillies do seem to have thinner legs than colts to begin with. I have mixed feelings about whether Stardom Bound should run in the Kentucky Derby or stay in the Oaks. I heard someone today on the radio question did we learn nothing from the Eight Belles incident... that you can't push a horse to do something they aren't able to and not expect disaster. But, I don't know if it's fair to apply that to her... she was better than 95% of that field.... but she had the thinnest legs, as did Pine Island.

I envy your lifestyle with the horses. I live in a big city, but one of these days...

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Abbie Knowles — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 05:41:56 GMT

That is great Rechelle! Wish there were more people like you!!!! If I had a young horse I would want to leave him/her alone as far as riding is concerned until he/she was 4.

There is a beautiful painting of Dahlia in Richard Stone Reeves marvelous book Decade of Champions if you can find a copy. But as Dahlia did win several races in America i.e. The Man O War, Washington DC International and The Hollywood Gold Cup you should be able to find a photo and info on her! She raced from 1972 to 1976 and retired age 6!!!!!

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Rechelle — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 02:43:22 GMT

Abbie - I'm old fashioned. I raised my foals to not have any saddle training at all until they were 2 PAST THEIR ACTUAL BIRTHDAY, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks for aging horses. Training in Saskatchewan, Canada, most of my weanlings were handled to teach them to trust humans, yearlings to the halter and leading & tying, loading, farrier, vet, etc. At 2 I would introduce the saddle pad first and then bring the saddle. The ranch I worked, if they were racing their horses, wouldn't race until 3. I still disagreed with it, which is why I worked more with show horses who don't start their career until they are 6, 7, 8 or older. My mare now is 16 and her previous owner started showing her too young and she has suffered injuries as a result and is now retired. Her pedigree is enough she should've been a Grand Prix horse, instead, she is in a pasture being allowed to be a horse and used for lessons for kids.

I've never heard of Dahlia before but will be sure to look her up. I think the fillies coming from Europe and abroad are better positioned by the time they race here because they aren't nearly as inbred as ours are (if you look at most of the horses running, they are severely inbred to Mr Prospector and Big Brown has Northern Dancer as his great great grandsire on both sides). The European blood is purer and I think it's important to introduce that into our horses now to ensure that they are sounder and sturdier.

Helsbelles, Ruffian broke down facing a boy. Rags to Riches broke down in her next race (and may have suffered the initial injury in the Belmont facing Curlin). Eight Belles lost her life facing the boys. Precious Kitten is older and therefore finished growing when she faced them. Goldikova came from a different country where it is more common to have fillies face the boys. Did I like her running against them? H*LL NO! Was I relieved when I saw she suffered no ill effects? Relieved doesn't even describe it. If the filly is 4 or older, I have less concerns with it. But these are already animals running on stick legs that are still developing, still growing. It's like a human child's bones. They aren't done growing until they're 17, 18, 19. A horse isn't completely done growing until they are 4 or 5. Why do you think you don't see any other horse sport using young horses? The YOUNGEST you might find will be 4 or 5, but it is more common to go to horses that are 8, 9, 10 and up.

A horse needs time to be a horse. Racehorses don't get that opportunity. They are bred to run and after birth, encouraged to run. After weaning, they are immediately put into training, even though they are nowhere near done growing, as evidenced by Nicanor last year needing MONTHS to go through a growth spurt, months that may have cost him the Kentucky Derby, since there is no way now that Nicanor will make it. Had he been able to start as a 2yo, he may have made it. But fortunately he has owners and a trainer who put his welfare above their desire to see him race.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

helsbelles — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:59:34 GMT

Rechelle's point about worrying about 3-yr old fillies running against the boys is interesting. I find that my eye follows the female in a race (Rags to Riches, My Typhoon, Eight Belles, Precious Kitten/Goldikova), but I think that is because of our human perception that the girl will get brutilized by the boys, that she cannot hold her own against them and needs protecting. If you believe the statistics that we are provided, when you compare males and females there is no difference in the number of breakdowns.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Abbie Knowles — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:58:41 GMT

I was trying to agree with you Rechelle, I believe "Rags" is better than any filly/mare bar Dahlia!

I also agree about any 2 or 3 year old not being fully developed be they a colt or a filly. I would like to see them unraced or only very lightly raced until they are 4! But that will not happen!!!!

i think really we are in agreement about most things! Although you may not have heard of Dahlia! She won lots of top races in England, Ireland, France, Italy, Canada (I think) ad America not just beating but leaving the top colts trailing in behind her at a respectful distance! And she beat the best around! Dahlia was a beautiful burnished copper chestnut with an Arabian head, white stripe and snip and superb confirmation! Beauty personnified! She was a bit of a madam with more than her fair share of temperament. If she did not feel like racing then she did not bother and she did not like the whip. Even Lester Piggott never whipped her over much! But i have never seen her like in looks or talent! I try not to compare my favourite fillies/mares with my favourite colts/stallions/geldings.

Anyway nice to find someone else who is not keen on the racing of 2 or 3 year olds due to lack of maturity. I know you only mentioned fillies. You are entitled to your opinions of course but as I wrote here i think that actually we are in agreement!!!

God Bless you and all horse lovers, animal lovers and those who care about people and the World we live in!

Best wishes

Abbie

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Rechelle — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:07:41 GMT

Abbie, I was saying that I believe Rags To Riches (aka "Rags") to be a better filly/mare than Stardom Bound is, but that is only my opinion. I didn't think you were criticizing Rags at all, I'm sorry if it came across that I did. I have strong opinions about 3yo fillies running against the boys, I think that is something that should be saved until they are 4yo or older and they are more experienced and have finished their growing. Bones are too delicate at 2yo and 3yo and the horse isn't done growing yet. Rags did stumble in the Belmont and her next race is the one she came out of with the fracture, so even though she beat Curlin in the Belmont, I think ultimately it cost her her career.

I have heard the same as you. IEAH is not aiming, at this point, Stardom Bound to the Kentucky Derby, that is why they purchased Patena. Stardom Bound is being aimed to the Kentucky Oaks, which I think for a 3yo filly is a better race.

Winnings Colors is proof that 3yo fillies can beat the boys. Eight Belles breakdown at last year's Derby just reinforced my opinion about 3yo fillies versus the boys.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

MATT H. — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:54:00 GMT

i think that square eddie is overrated i have major questions about that horse in the last last race he get beat by 5-6 lengths? i just dont think he is capable of havndeling the distance i think he has to be in the lead who do i really thing will really think will win the derby? i dont care what people say about vinyard haven i think he will be the horse to beat may 2nd in the kentucky derby i know he 's been in dubi but my question to you is what does dubi have to do with the kentucky derby. what i think would be neat is if he ran in the dubi world cup then in the derby. no horse i know of has ever done that i dont know if he is eligable for that race or not at the begining of the year i would have told you runaway hide but someone told me he retired to that kinda went out the window i have went with vineyard haven before in the champaine stakes in belmont. so thats how i know he can handel any distance because belmont is the longest track we have in horse race there is a reason the call it the test of a champion i personally find it very hard to win at belmont im not saying he will be in the triple crown contention but knowing edge prado if he is on him i feel like he has the chance to win i think in order to win the triple crown everything has to go absolulty perfect thats why im sorry to say this but we probably wont see one for another 10-20 years if then i think field is to weak.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

MATT H. — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:36:34 GMT

stargirl11

i love stardom bound i know she will do great this weekend because i have bet on her before on the triple crown breeders cup juvenile fillies my only concern is when she goes against the boys is her speed and is she going to be able to hold them off durring the streach i think she is a great horse i just want to them to make sure she is ready i want to see the fillie win the kentucky derby to my knowledge it hasnt been to since 70s or 80s and she is my #1 pick but the first they need to take it one race at a time i also think that hanz field i think he will be in contention.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Draynay — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:30:07 GMT

Vineyard Haven and add Stardom Bound to my Derby list. Knowing that when she is done racing she is going to the barn with Big Brown is all the reason I need to hope she wins the Derby. Big Brown and Stardom Bound... wow can't wait to see the colt they produce.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Householder — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 05:06:42 GMT

Winning Colors lost the Las Virgenes to Goodbye Halo only to come back to take the Santa Anita Derby by 10. Stardom Bound is interesting...would be only the fourth filly in history to take the Santa Anita Derby.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Abbie Knowles — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 03:55:31 GMT

Rechelle I was not comparing Stardom Bound to "Rags". If you read my comments about "Rags" on other blogsites you would know how high an opinion I have of Rags and that after Dahlia she is my 2nd all time favourite filly/ mare. I was merely pointing out that fillies can beat the boys. Dahlia made a habit of it!

Rags gave eveything when she beat Curlin so it must have taken a huge amount out of her and that stumble did not help. My memory falters at times so sorry about the inaccuracy as to when she was injured!

Anyway I read somewhere on Bloodhorse.com that IEAH are hoping that Patena is so awesome in his next races that Stardom Bound will be going for the Kentucky Oaks!!!!! Patena appears to be their main Derby hope at present!

As Patena's dam is by A P Indy I will have him on my long list (lots of Seattle Slew's dynasty still Kentucky Derby bound at the moment and looking good for later on!)of horses to follow for this season.

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

StarGirl11 — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 03:19:13 GMT

My personal choice is Stardom Bound. I love her and I am estatic to hear they are thinking of running her against the boys before the Derby. I was really hoping they would do that.

Other than that I do like the Pappelmouse and Square Eddie.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

SpaghettiMouse234 — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 01:38:02 GMT

The Pamplemousse in the Run for the Roses!

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Rechelle — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 00:41:54 GMT

Abbie, I don't think you can compare Rags To Riches to Stardom Bound. Rags is a rare horse and exceptionally talented, but also do note that in her next race is when she suffered the injury. Who knows what it took out of her to beat Curlin?

Draynay, I hate to burst your bubble but Midshipman will NEVER beat Street Hero since Street Hero is RETIRED after an injury! See this article if you don't believe me: www.ntra.com/content.aspx

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Derby132 — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 23:44:25 GMT

Ditto Skippy - m palmer is referring to none other than Mr. Fantasy

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Jason Shandler — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 21:45:46 GMT

Hey Wanda: I guess you can judge for yourself if I got a tan by checking out That Handicapping Show. I didnt get too much of one since it was overcast the last 3 days. But Im not complaining. At least I wasnt in the ice storm. And, I hit the exacta for $816 in the Nicanor race at Gulfstream on Saturday. It was a good trip, thanks for asking.

East Coast horses, huh? Well, Im not sure what states are included in that, but it will be fun watching.

re: Where Will This Year's Derby Winner Come Out Of?

Wanda — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 21:01:33 GMT

I'm killing time till we go to the airport Jason, did you get a tan? I like the east coast based horses, how do you like that? No way am I going to go with one state!