Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

BB — Thu, 14 May 2009 14:39:52 GMT

Let's all remember this is a business first. It's a good deal for everyone in that respect and it gives the filly a chance to prove her greatness against the boys.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

hank — Tue, 12 May 2009 23:13:07 GMT

Hey Greg 2O million you are 100% correct, That horse potentially was worth probably three or four times that amount. at that time he really looked like a triple crown winner, stud fees, syndicate potential, ulimited situation, absolutely devastating loss for a trainer to have to deal with.I was in no way demining Mr wiggins I personelly do not know the man but I have friends that due, he is a very classy guy, excellent horseman,Top shelve but I disagree with you money is the controlling factor in this business,

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

My Juliet — Tue, 12 May 2009 22:37:35 GMT

My comment about Charismatic was incorrect, very glad to be wrong about him.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

Mike Relva — Tue, 12 May 2009 22:22:23 GMT

TO:GREG J

How are you? Thanks!

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

Wanda — Tue, 12 May 2009 21:07:13 GMT

Thank you barb for your comment. A hairline fracture is not a break per say which is what I intended when I asked you to clear that up.Most of the time it requires no surgery.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

barb — Tue, 12 May 2009 05:06:51 GMT

My Juliet...lol I was thinking of SJ too. His injury was not career ending but they sent him to stud(owner was sick and getting out of biz,so I can't call it all greed but...Smarty could have come back). I was under the impression that AA could have come back as well. Charismatic is not dead, he lives in Japan I think. Big Brown was lucky to race at all with his bad feet, his retirement didn't have anything to do with the TC.

Wanda...Rags sustained a hairline fracture to her right front pastern in the Gazelle,her follow up race after the Belmont.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

My Juliet — Mon, 11 May 2009 23:05:18 GMT

Hi Greg J- thanks back. Hi Barb- I was thinking of Smarty Jones and Afleet Alex, not able to run again after the grueling run of TC races. Big Brown ran once more, then retirement. I thought it was Rags to Riches last race, might be wrong on that. Charismatic, Barbaro, Eight Belles, may they rest in peace. I know they could have been fatally injured in any race, but it has been a lot to take in only 10 years. If a horse has a shot at winning the TC I understand wanting them in the Belmont but RA of course can't be a contender. My opinion is it would be pushing her too hard, a possibly very costly mistake. Plenty of races past that to consider. Just my thoughts. Thanks.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

Greg J. — Mon, 11 May 2009 19:03:43 GMT

Hank,

Not everyone is in it for the almighty buck, I guarantee you if you had offered $20 Million for Barbaro after his Derby win to The Jackson's(LAEL) there would be a zero chance they would even consider it, Even for a second...

Mike Relva,

Spot on regarding Mr. Wiggins....

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

Mike Relva — Mon, 11 May 2009 16:58:28 GMT

TO:HANK

So you're the voice of reason for Mr. Wiggins? You don't have a clue what he's feeling or will be regarding RA. Don't think for a second that you can predict how Wiggings feels! That's a joke!

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

Hank — Mon, 11 May 2009 04:04:06 GMT

WOW, where are these comments and opinions from? Why are you all beating up Jackson and Assmussen, neither of which I am fond of,The owners of RA accepted an offer for her simple as that, Sorry Mr Wiggins but when he cashes the % check believe me a lot of the pain of losing her will be gone, plus he lost her when she was on top,Everytime RA is mentioned I am sure Mr Wiggins will get his do which he honestly deserves, but this is all about money guys,that is the bottom line,If it wasn't then RA would of never been sold, By the way what was the price on the filly, anyone know? And guys everything in life has a price, whether you are buying or selling. Just a very good deal for two parties involved, not us the general public, our opinions don't and shouldn,t count.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

Bradgm — Sun, 10 May 2009 23:25:02 GMT

Great Karen, but I saw zero relevance on here. Not sure why it was mentioned or even pointed out that somewhere a filly/colt exists in a breed irrelevant to the TB racing industry. THAT was MY point. I addressed whomever addressed the inane topic. I heard about the findings, just didn't see the point in even mentioning it once, let alone reiterating to me that 'it' really exists.

Like we've said over and over again on here, newbis who don't understand racing, read this stuff and think people really KNOW what they're talking about rather than just expressing their feelings (the part I have no issue with as long as it doesn't go from the sublime to the ridiculous) Plus how many who post on here regularaly have admitted they don't read all the posts?

Man, we were talking and we sure wish all of you guys would pitch in, buy some horses, those of you who believe yourselves to be trainers could train them and we could at least fill the cards around the country and not have to cancel races or days due to lack of horses.

Ida, the bragging isn't the reason for the major dislike of IEAH. Personally I'm not too gungho for owners who have all the drama they do. Mike was in trouble with Security regulators for making unauthorized purchase for his clients, was censured, fined and suspended as a broker. Then months later, bizarre tale of threats. Ricks very checkered past, drug positives (a pattern it seems since Jeff also has had so many issues with positvies).

Stardom Bound is NOT the same filly she was before she was sold. Her owner and trainer were class acts who both got out of the business for health reasons.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

Karen in Texas — Sun, 10 May 2009 20:37:37 GMT

Bradgm---I am absolutely not saying that RA is a hermaphrodite! I simply confirmed that there had been recent news story on a horse named Arizona Helen as sophiekea posted! I said nothing about RA at all in that regard. I have no opinion about her running against the boys and have not posted one word on that subject! And, yes, I know quite a bit about biomedical testing--it's been part of my life for about thirty years.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

marapace — Sun, 10 May 2009 20:04:43 GMT

Draynay

obviously your lack of hands on knowledge is very apparent and missing much of the point of a number of these postings. Yes claimers change hands. And is often the case, claimers don't preform as well under their new handlers until the new connections get to know the horse. If they do comeback as well or better the next time out, usually it has to do with prior conditioning and not what the current staff are doing. It is rare to have a claimer maintain or improve immediately off a claim and note that I said immediately. Having horses come and go out of my barn, I can tell you as a fact that EVERY horse reacts to the change. There are changes to feed, water, supplements, vet care, shoeing, excercise and general routine and handlers. As each horse is an individual, each responds differently. Put human emotions on it if you want or not, but point of fact is they ALL respond. Yes RA will be treated like a Queen, but there is no way SA is going to do things exactly the same as HW. How RA reacts is yet to be seen, but the main point is why risk it? She was in capable hands that didn't need to change in the middle of a campaign. Comparing RA situation to claimers is not really appropriate. Plus if every claimer maintained or improved off the claim and changes, a lot more would change hands than do.

For those that question running the Filly against the colts, especially those that keep refering to EB, I do agree with Draynay and others. There is nothing wrong with a exceptional filly such as RA taking on the colts. And obviously you missed some very talented fillies and mares kick some colt butt last year right here in the good old US in high profile televised venues. What happened to EB was NOT because she was racing against the colts or the Derby or the distance. There are many photos of EB during and immediately after the race that showed she was fine. She took a bad step. Probably has more to do with her breeding as the Unbridled Songs tend to be fragile than anything else, just like some people bruise easier than others. Accidents happen both in the morning and the afternoon. Thought is IWR hurt him self in the stall. Big Drama hurt himself in his stall earlier this year. Does that mean we have to quit putting horses in stalls because they might get hurt?? Fillies race colts everyday somewhere in the world. Used to happen much more in the US until the focus on preserving stallion breeding prospects became more important than actual racing, another rub pointed out in these blogs. I only question the doing it now. RA was not prepared for this kind of a campaign. Her spacing of races, excercise and workouts reflect that. Yes she was prepared differently than the colts on the TC trail. Yes we would feel differently if she was prepared and raced into the Derby and beyond. I agree that she should take on the colts, I just don't think that the timing, running in the Preakness is right for her particular sitation. And again I'll reiterate, everyone keeps saying we need a TC winner. Why can't she win the FTC/TT and folks be happy, then take on the colts? Thus we get a TC winner, conections get a chance to know the filly and prepare, and she is proven superior. Makes more sense.

JJ is no Paul Mellon, or other class acts like the Lewises, Alan Paulson Sr, etc.

And Draynay, the way things are going with QR, we may not see him again this year if ever if things don't improve quickly. GSW have been retired to preserve their stallion career's for less, which is too bad and has been very bad for the sport, fans and the breed. Thoroughbreds aren't racehorses anymore, their stallion prospects, lame or otherwise, and once they get that GSW, their days on track are numbered.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

Ida Lrr — Sun, 10 May 2009 19:29:42 GMT

What's the issue with IEAH? I think they've done well by Big Brown and Stardom Bound and they're building a state-of-the-arts equine hospital in New York and naming it after the Equine Queen to end all Equine Queens - Ruffian. So, Dutrow went overboard bragging about Big Brown. If I had a wondrous god of a horse like Big Brown, I'd be bragging too. Now, about Alexandra the Great. Rumor has it that the POTN connections (and perhaps others) are going to put in other nominated colts to complete the 14 limit for the Preakness and thus keep Rachel out. I can't think of anything more cowardly or unsportsmanlike. Now if she's not in the race, the connections of any colt that wins will have to answer the dreaded question "But could your horse have beaten the Filly?" I dare say the answer would be "NO".

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

miramartzu — Sun, 10 May 2009 17:39:08 GMT

Not that Jess Jackson cares about what any of us thinks he should care for the horse he just paid a boat load of money for. I don't care how good she is or maybe. She is still a horse who in the span of two weeks has won a Grade 1, been vetted and is with a new barn, new groom ,new routine and will be asked to get on a plane(has she even flown before?)and face multi. Grade 1 winning boys. Thats a tall order for any horse. How about skipping the Preakness to see if Mine That Bird can get the second jewel. Them try for the Belmont if there is no Triple Crown on the line. That would make the most sense. Then again it made no sense what so ever taking that filly from Hal Wiggins. I'm sure he and his staff would of been more than able to campaigne her in the manner Jess Jackson wants for her.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

CB Man — Sun, 10 May 2009 16:23:23 GMT

it appears the other owners are trying to over book the preakness to stop RA from getting in.

thats very low

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

stardust aka rose — Sun, 10 May 2009 15:40:29 GMT

JordanL

Wonderful Post!

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

stardust aka rose — Sun, 10 May 2009 15:06:12 GMT

KateC

I so agree with you. This filly has been with these connections all this time and now this? Horses are not machines. They have feelings too. To this day, I truly believe that the reason Lava Man didn't do well there for awhile was because of losing his groom. I believe that there was a very strong connection there and it affected the horse a lot.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

Wanda — Sun, 10 May 2009 10:50:19 GMT

barb: Rags to Riches did NOT break her leg please clarify that statement.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

Bradgm — Sun, 10 May 2009 04:37:54 GMT

p.s. Sophie a ridgling is a male animal with an undescended testicle.

If the owner wants to save him as a stallion, surgery is done to place it/them correctly otherwise the ultimate equipment change and he's a gelding.

Standardbreds and TB's obviously don't have the same registration/breeding criteria. Just as QH's have a different standard from TB's.

I'm not even sure what that comment was all about anyway????

I have watched a lot of races, am friends with trainers who have run some great fillies who could beat nearly any colt.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

racingfan — Sun, 10 May 2009 04:36:27 GMT

I am a huge racing fan like the rest of you but I cannot understand some of the comments I am reading here. Who here would not have bought her if they could? Why is Mr. Jackson a bad guy for doing just that? Racing isn't about the money, as the vast majority of people in racing are just getting by if not losing money. Yes there are some very wealthy people in racing (I wish I were one of them!) but that has always been the case. In fact much more so in the past when there were so many big breed to race operations. Are we just jealous because he could afford her? Her owners did not HAVE to sell her! If she were mine no amount of money could have bought her. But she didn't belong to any of us. As far as switching trainers, I feel bad for Mr. Wiggins but what owner that is already established with someone is not going to switch? It is obvious that he was doing great with her but her new owner has every right to do what he feels comfortable with! Why on earth should that make anyone angry and especially so angry as to lose interest in racing..? Mr. Jackson seems to want to help out racing and that is a good thing. And for those who still say Curlin only ran at 4 due to the legal complications - if that were true then he would still be racing because that mess is still not resolved.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

robinm — Sun, 10 May 2009 04:24:04 GMT

Hey Travis L: I hope I'm not one of the sniveling females you referred to but just in case I am; my feeling the Preakness is too soon for Rachel has nothing to do with the fact she is a filly and not a colt. Rather it has to do with what has worked for her in the past and what has not. Also, what she was being prepared for, not to mention she has been jerked from the barn she's known her whole racing life to a new situation. No matter whether we're talking fillies or colts; horses need time to adjust. I would feel no differently if we were talking about a truly great colt. Kudos to Gary and marapace; I enjoyed your comments.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

Bradgm — Sun, 10 May 2009 04:15:01 GMT

Wanda, not so mini anymore.

Sophie et al.

Ladies please. One animal out of how many thousands????

Are you up on what is done as far as testing etc on Thoroughbreds???

"Part of the registration process for registering a thoroughbred foal is obtaining a DNA sample to submit for testing. The DNA is contained in the root head of the mane hairs."

There is even a website which tells you how to take the sample, send it to the Jockey Club, can provide it if you'd like.

This was explained to me by someone who USED to post on here. Someone who actually knows the process, also knows how it feels to lose a horse out of left field.

The WAY this was done, after the sale of the filly was turned down. That's a definite bummer.

So you 'ladies' are saying that because RA is an awesome filly she's a hermaphrodite? My, my that's sexists IMHO.

So, Winning Colors, Genuine Risk, Sharp Cat, Zenyatta, Landaluce, Ruffian, etc, etc all awesome fillies who wiped the floor up with almost every filly they ran against at one time or another may not have been a filly????? Wrong.

That's why they have DNA testing in TB's. The potential for ringers is why they tattoo them, microchip them, witness the breeding and don't allow AI.

Like somebody said, Katsan??? there are sure a lot of out of work trainers on here.

I think opinions on how everyone FEELS is fine. Trying to dissect this and turn it into something it isn't seems to me that it's best left for the experts and insiders.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

barb — Sun, 10 May 2009 03:17:49 GMT

Sophiekea...Last years Ky derby was NOT the "last time" a filly ran against males, apparently you only watch the races once a year. If you saw the Breeders Cup you would have seen a filly beat the boys(Goldikova). Evita Argentina won a stakes race against boys this year at Santa Anita. And just last weekend girls came in first and second over boys in Churchill's first 2y/o stakes race (I know girls mature faster, but its still an example of girls not dying in stakes company with boys :) ). And using Rags to Riches as an example of how bad it is to race against boys doesn't hold water...she won, came out of the race FINE and then broke a leg in her next race against fillies. Her injury had nothing to do with the Belmont!

MyJuliet...I would like clarification of your thoughts on the TC being the "end" of so many horses. IMO we have lost them to greed and the breeding shed not because of the TC.

IMO we have not had a TC winner in so long because of the soft schedules the horses have, if you look back to the 40's and the 70's, horses had the most starts at 2 and before the TC at 3 and those two decades produced 4 & 3 TC winners respectively.

re: Mixed Emotions in Sale of Rachel Alexandra

KateC — Sun, 10 May 2009 03:06:30 GMT

Rachel should gallop in the Preakness, but if she doesn't, it won't be because she's not talented enough. It's one thing to be a sportsman with a strapping, seasoned, 4-year old colt like Curlin. It's quite another to yank a 3-year old filly away from everything she knows - her groom, her trainer, her barn - and the very next week throw her in a classic race against the boys. I'm not trying to be sentimental, I just think fillies more so than colts thrive in their routine, with what is familiar, and if Rachel turns in a sub par effort, it will be for those reasons. She's a superstar, but she's not a machine. I know it's not customary to leave a newly purchased horse with its current trainer, but in this case, I think Jess Jackson would have gotten a standing O for doing just that. Lord knows Assmussen doesn't need one more horse in his mega-stable. It shouldn't have hurt the owner/trainer relationship too much. Seems like a lot of the fans Jackson made during Curlin's 2008 campaign have now turned against him. He has been a great ambassador for the sport (reminds me very much of Allen Paulson), but this just feels wrong. It would have been enough to face boys in the Belmont and Zenyatta in the fall. This just smacks of ego and impatience.