Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

MonicaV — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 00:41:52 GMT

Big Brown Fans, what happened today, 6/7/08? BB ran out of gas after a mile. A sure win? Didn't happen. As proven before, the Belmont is the true test and he didn't have anything left in the tank. The steriods were out of his system after not having any injected for 2 months. BB wasn't even a factor in the race. How do you explain that? He wasn't lame, injury I could understand but glad it didn't happen. He looked fine after the race. He isn't the greatest horse in 30 years. He's a good 3 year old who has peaked.

He will probably never race again and he sure wouldn't have beat Curlin.

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

insider p — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:50:15 GMT

I met BB back in jan.at pm fl.he was healing from quarter crack,I was there for every race he has won and all I can say is he is a magnificent animal.The problem is there is no colt even close to him on the track that can show how super he really is,he just blows them away.Michael I and company would like nothing better then to hook up with curlin it would be great for the sport which we all love and whats the worst that could happen one of those fine animals would be runner up to a champion.I think that at this stage of the game BB is a better 3 yr old then curlin was, he's proven that much agree?I don't think curlin's connections wants to run at SA but if they do we'll be there as long as BB is healthy.I can't make any of you BB knockers love BB but,come watch him run and you'll realize your seeing something special.I leave for NY fri.can't wait to watch him romp again.

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

Karen — Fri, 30 May 2008 20:28:44 GMT

Robert in Houston: Not sure if your still around or posting but please give me a break. Of course you use times to know how well a horse ran. How do you think trainers know how their horse is training. Not only do you use times, you also take into consideration all the factors of a race. Track condition, head winds, post position, how many horses are in the race, opening quarters, closing quarters. You need to go back to racing 101 if you don't think you use times to compare horses. Not just record breaking times either. BB broke from the 20th position and ran 4-5 wide. He ran in a strong head wind in the preakness. C'mon Robert, think about it.

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

RaceAway — Tue, 27 May 2008 19:25:18 GMT

I like Casino Drive. I read he faced competition like BB in Japan..and won. Hopefully, for him, Belmont is a cakewalk.

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

Robert in Houston — Thu, 22 May 2008 19:59:49 GMT

Liz said; "Just because there was no regulation of drugs "back in the day," doesn't mean the horses were all frauds. In fact, they had to be pretty darn tough to survive the damage some of that junk did to their systems, and since there was really no way to regulate the use of drugs, the playing field had it's own (perverted) version of "level" since everyone had the same free choice to use or not use drugs. " >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Liz, his original owners- who were honest men- never drugged Sir Barton and he was badly beaten in 5 of his first 6 races, he was sold on the cheap and then it was decided by Ross & Bedwell to use him as a rabbit for Billy Kelly- he didnt fade- the drugs made him a different horse- the words of his jockey prove my point.

In regards to times- are you serious? Unbridled's Song ran the Florida Derby faster than BB, Curlin and Bernardini ran the Preakness faster than BB, War Emblem, Funny Cide, Grindstone etc all ran the Derby faster than BB- as a racing fan- you should know never to use times to compare horses unless it is a record.

You can say BB set this track record, or this stakes record to make a point- as he has never done that- I don't see how you can bring up the time of his races as an issue-you should know better.

To Karen- you see all this hype about BB- I have been through this MANY TIMES- so many examples- Copelan comes to mind in regards to a horse that reminds me of BB. Copelan had all the hype as well.

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

Dawne — Thu, 22 May 2008 19:04:31 GMT

Hey Liz,

Congrats! Always good to hear when someone comes out on top.

The topic of drugs is an interesting one. I have a friend who works in a test barn and has pointed out on a number of occasions that they can not test for all the drugs horses are given. That's impossible. That's why some trainers use human drugs for example. A vast amount will not test.

Dutrow claimed winstrol helped his horse's coats. LMAO. Corn oil helps a horses coat and is perfectly legal. Steroids serve a purpose: performance enhancers. I can't imagine a time when racing cleans up it's act.

I did read a funny comment someone made: "Where the hell is John Servis when you need him?"

Let's look forward to the Belmont and hope BB is truly a freak. I did read Dutrow's comment that he would go on the Traver's. I know I'll be there!

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

jbpegasus — Thu, 22 May 2008 13:38:20 GMT

Hey folks, steroid therapy is only banned in Iowa and very soon in Indiana. So good or bad, right or wrong, Dutrow did nothing wrong in that area.

Also before you put down Denis of Cork, look at the replay again. Borel took the horse from last to third in less than a quarter mile. I do not think he will beat BB, but I think he can make the race interesting. To say that BB will win by 15 lengths is just dreaming.

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

Karen — Wed, 21 May 2008 20:25:18 GMT

Robert in Houston: Clearly BB could have run with the likes of SS, Hard Spun and Curlin last year. One does not have to look to hard to see why. It isn't rocket science.Everyone keeps saying BB would have gotten ran into the ground last year. How do you figure? I respect all of your opinions and not wanting to label BB a superhorse or great. But stop beating up on him. He is all class. He does what is asked of him when it is asked of him and he does it easily with a tremendous turn of foot. To some, that makes him brilliant. To others that makes him great. The mile and a half will definately be a challenge. I feel he can do it and feel that it is in his breeding. Damascus was brilliant and he had a tremendous turn of foot. He is remembered for his crushing closing runs. Is that where BB gets it??? Only the racing God's know for sure. Even if he wins the TC, there will still be non believers and naysayers. Why? Because people have chosen not to like him. People think a horse has to race his elders to earn a place in history. Never lose sight of what the triple crown is and what it is made of. There is a reason it hasn't been done in 30 years. All the greats of last year couldn't do it. Will BB win? Nobody knows. But I for one will be cheering for the Big Brown race horse come Belmont day.

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

Wanda — Wed, 21 May 2008 19:56:20 GMT

Just read Dutrow's comments on steroids.Come on guys he's playing dumb.Any trainer that gets to the level he's at knows exactly what is given to horses under his care.I agree with Liz's comments who knows what good horses got for a pre-race 20-30-40 years ago.I'm not against steroids per say,they can help a racehorse alot as Dutrow says.They can rebuild muscle,help them eat better,and in a gelding make them more agressive. When you are at that level of racing you can use all the legal pre-race meds there are and nobody will blink an eye.I do not believe in giving steroids to sales yearlings or two year olds in training but they do. It's naive to think that these big stables don't go there.

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

Liz — Wed, 21 May 2008 19:17:47 GMT

I don't know if history will determine that Big Brown is a better horse than Street Sense, Hard Spun, or Curlin, or that he is a momentary flash in the pan. I do think his shortened career will hurt his legacy, just like it has for Street Sense and Hard Spun. However, I do know that if you run his Derby tape side by side with the '07 tape you will notice that the big ol' brown bag o' bones comes home in the clear ahead of all three of those fine horses. You cannot take away the fact that he ran a faster Derby than did any of those three horses.

I say only history will prove the greatness of any one horse not the public sentiment based on the outcome of one or two races.

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

Liz — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:59:13 GMT

Just because there was no regulation of drugs "back in the day," doesn't mean the horses were all frauds. In fact, they had to be pretty darn tough to survive the damage some of that junk did to their systems, and since there was really no way to regulate the use of drugs, the playing field had it's own (perverted) version of "level" since everyone had the same free choice to use or not use drugs.

I'm not applauding this history. I'm just saying that we should not in any way diminish those horses or their accomplishments given the facts of their particular time in history, nor should we be blind to that history.

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

Robert in Houston — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:40:09 GMT

Sir Barton- I missed a word in that previous posting- it should have said; 'HIS JOCKEY LOFTUS SAID HE COULDN'T RUN A LICK UNLESS HE WAS JUICED UP'.

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

Robert in Houston — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:36:12 GMT

THIS WAS SAID BY A BB FANATIC; "Big Brown is one of the best horses to step foot on any race track anywhere.

He is an absolute super star that will win the Belmont and the Triple Crown unless he gets sick, breaks down, or gets one of the most horrible rides of all time.

When you look at what Big Brown has done and how he has done it...there is only one word you can use to describe this colt....BRILLIANT!">>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is actually funny- seriously! If BB goes on to win the Belmont- he still wouldn't even make the top 40 horses of all-time. As a matter of fact- I WOULDNT RATE HIM ANY EDGE OVER CURLIN, SS OR HARD SPUN IF YOU RAN HIM IN LAST YEARS TRIPLE CROWN!

1. Curlin did lose an incredible Belmont against a filly that had WON 3 grade 1 races in a row! Eight Belles lost 4 of her first 6 races- non a stakes, then beat nothing special to make it to the KD. The Florida Derby.....Smooth Air? The Preakness- that field was a disgrace.

2. I don't blame BB for the horrible quality of what he has beaten, but don't tell me he is a SUPERHORSE- that is absurd.

3. IF BEATING that Florida Derby field- and that Preakness field is a test of greatness- EVEN ZANJERO would pass that test, or Hard Spun, or Curlin, or SS- so spare me the SUPERHORSE stuff.

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

Robert in Houston — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:18:56 GMT

In regards to the steroid usage- many authors have touched on the topic in racing, though never have any even ventured speculation that Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid, Secretariat, Round Table- just to name a few- were ever on anything. The most famous case of using drugs on a famous horse is the first Triple Crown winner- Sir Barton. His own jockey Johny Loftus said himself he could run a lick without it. Although illegal even then- horses weren't tested obviously. At one point, America's leading jockey-Loftus called out the leading trainer in the nation- Bedwell, and (LOL) the leading owner Ross refused to believe it- since that would mean he would have to fess up to the fact that his horses were all frauds. Sir Barton ran off the board five times out of 6 races- was sold on the cheap, broke his maiden by winning the Kentucky Derby

re: Triple Crown Lock? Hold Your Horses

bomber bill — Wed, 21 May 2008 17:09:49 GMT

robert, your right just like in baseball there is no test for it. I know that horses back in the day also were giving drugs,but dutrow coming out and saying it was a bad move because all it has done is take away from the horse his training skills and the sport in general.