A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

depalma13 — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:55:08 GMT

Big Brown is the end all be all... unlike all those others Big Brown is perfect.

Open mouth insert foot.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

craftylord — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:59:28 GMT

Well so much for that! Guess Harlem Rocker isn't as good as we've thought. Maybe Big Brown is waaayyy better than any horse we've seen. Guess we'll find out on Saturday.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

craftylord — Sat, 31 May 2008 06:37:44 GMT

Oh yeah, forgot to mention those West Coast horses that were spanked at Churchill on dirt would be running on THEIR favorite surface! Add Colonel John, Heatseeker, Go Between, Tiago, Giant Gizmo...wow, look up the pedigrees of these horses!

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

craftylord — Sat, 31 May 2008 06:26:18 GMT

Simple concepts:

Big Brown = American Triple Crown

Harlem Rocker = Canadian Triple Crown

Both would be undefeated with Travers at Saratoga in August ($1 million).

Curlin = Top older horse

Breeders Cup Classic = Polytrack at Santa Anita

Big Brown (Boundary-Mien (Nureyev))

Harlem Rocker (Macho Uno-Freedom Come (Lit de Justice))

Curlin (Smart Strike-Sheriffs Deputy (Deputy Minister))

ALL HAVE NORTHERN DANCER bloodline!! Big Brown has speed, Harlem Rocker is a closing stalker and Curlin is a closer. I'm dreaming but this would be an ABSOLUTE CLASSIC race! I'd PAY those horses to show up and promote the event like it was the Super Bowl!

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

draynay — Thu, 29 May 2008 22:57:09 GMT

Big Brown has to race longer to be considered great ??? Why? Secretariat didn't and most think he is the end all be all and he lost 5 times!!!

After the Belmont some horse named Onion looked Secretariat in the eye and then left him in the dust.

Big Brown has won every race by 5 or more and done it with ease... he is so good he has never had to even give it his all...he wins under wraps by 5 or more. Still not enough for you ... you need him to race against some older horses that have no chance of beating him to pad his record or if he just had a few more wins at 2 then he would be 10 and 0 instead of 5 and 0. He is never going to race 21 times and there is no point in doing so. The only competition out there is Curlin and when he whips him maybe then all you will get a clue. Big Brown is the end all be all... unlike all those others Big Brown is perfect.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Janesville Liz — Thu, 29 May 2008 16:32:43 GMT

I know he broke his maiden on grass--I was thinking of a major stakes score on the turf.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

B.graham — Wed, 28 May 2008 21:04:57 GMT

the whole idea of using steroids is wrong.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Karen — Wed, 28 May 2008 16:57:02 GMT

Janesville Liz: BB broke his maiden on turf in Saratoga last year, winning by 11 1/4 lengths. There is no question he can run on the turf. That victory on grass should add another dimension to his "resume". I respect the difference in opinion but have a hard time with the bad mouthing BB is taking. To say he has not had any competition is unfair. Surely it would do some of you good to read the article recently in the Bloodhorse regarding some of the "greats" and the competition or lack of they faced during their racing campaigns. To deny BB his due is unjust. If the races were crawling, perhaps I could give some credit to the idea that BB hasn't proven anything but the times have been solid. Not to mention the manner in which this colt handles everything. BB has a great mind combined with his exposive turn of foot. As far as the quarter cracks go, they are a legitimate concern. It's hard to seperate the men from the boys when in fact BB is still a boy. Curlin is a much more mature 4 year old and didn't come into his own until the fall of his 3 year old year and this year. Horses mature and change a great deal between their 3 and 4 year old year and again between their 4 and 5 year old year. I love Curlin and think he is exceptional, but he himself could not conquer the triple crown. I agree he had to run against Street Sense and Hard Spun (who was my favorite) last year, but look at the times. Break down the quarters and take post postion and head winds into consideration. BB would have been game with last years competition. No question in my mind.

Starsinthesky: I agree with you. I feel steroids are a far bigger problem than the breeding program itself.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Monica V — Wed, 28 May 2008 15:01:29 GMT

Very well said, Secretary, but I believe they have already signed the deal with Three Chimmneys and it probably means no racing at 4. It's really too bad. The early retirement if Secretariat has always left me wondering what he would have been like at 4. He was just getting better and better in is 3 year old year. Street Sense is gone and Hard Spun who was a much better horse than he was given credit for.

I agree with the thought that BB needs to race longer in order to say he is one of the greatest. The truly great horses ran more than 5 or 6 times. Spectacular Bid ran 26 times and won 23 times.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Andy — Wed, 28 May 2008 09:50:41 GMT

A.P. Indy ran the fastest final quarter mile in Belmont history? He didn't even run the fastest final quarter mile in his own Belmont. My Memoirs ran a faster final quarter than he did to finish second in that race.

Both Rags to Riches and Curlin ran a sub :24 final quarter mile in the Belmont last year. Only Little Current in 1974 came home as fast as those two did.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Secretariat's Secretary — Wed, 28 May 2008 01:19:10 GMT

Having Big Brown continue his 4-year-old campaign will be one of the most influential actions that can help the thoroughbred industry.

Please, Mr. Iavarone, think about all the greatness Big Brown can accomplish on the racetrack after the Belmont Stakes-Triple Crown, and the influence he will have on the millions of people that follow and not follow the sport. On all the people this horse can touch. A classy honest hero for a nation and a world in time of need. An ongoing war, and an economic recession. He could be the next Seabiscuit to all of us.

Understanding the IEAH point of view, not defending it, this is a group of investors, expecting to grow financially by increasing their profit to shareholders. Fortunately, great horsemen are associated with this group including Frank Lyons, and more recently Gary Stevens. Both of them characterized by outstanding work ethic, respect for the sport, and utmost love for the horses. I would like to believe that if people like them are associated with The IEAH, those principles of horsemanship are very likely to be respected, and will be more important than early return profits. They know what is good for the sport. Maybe the will be able to influence reversing the early retirement decision of Big Brown. However, this is a once in a lifetime horse, and a once in a lifetime opportunity for Mr. Iavarone et al. of The IEAH group to solidify their status as a believable profitable equine holding, thus, continuing to attract new business and growth. Ultimately is still their decision and what they perceive as being important for thoroughbred racing.

If I could develop Big Brown's campaign, I will continue after the Belmont with the following grade I races: Whitney H, Travers, Jockey Club Gold Cup, BC Classic, Cigar Mile, Malibu, Donn H, Dubai WC, and finally the Met Mile. If he could remain sound through a true champions campaign like this, he has nothing else to proof to anyone ever. He would have won from 7 to 12 furlong races, including a grass race.

One concern that was brought up as a topic of discussion with the ESPN and NBC panel on Preakness day, is the early retirement of 3-year-olds to a stallion career. There is a very high number of them that have been retired due to career-ending injuries and/or excuses, without having the opportunity to demonstrate their capability of staying healthy. There is a very high probability that these new unproven on the racetrack stallions, will be able to pass- on genetically to their offsprings, the same infirmities that end-up their racing careers in the first place. For instance, Nicanor, Barbaro's full-brother. It will be interesting and necessary to follow him really close to evaluate his durability, biomechanics, and absence of lesions. Could it be that Barbaro's fracture had a genetic component or susceptibility of some sort? Another example, both Jazil and Rags to Riches were retired by injuries at the age of 3, both by the same dam. They can run, but can they last?

How will we know, if Big Brown is retired so early in his career, if his quarter crack and foot issues will not be inherited by his descendants? No doubt he will be a great stallion, but he could very well demonstrate his soundness with a longer campaign. Then his value and influence as a sire to the race will have no price.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Chas — Tue, 27 May 2008 22:16:17 GMT

Bottom line, in today's horse racing game is as follows: Get your picture taken in the winner circle as owner of a Grade 1 winning horse...Next, take the biggest check put in front of you for breeding rights for your grade 1 winner...

Today's owners not only do not care about truly racing aka competing...they only care about $$$...Grade 1's = $$$....If nay owner really cared about racing and the sport they would race a Curlin or Big Brown in the top races in the U.S. and see how they stacked up against the true greats of the game: 'Big Red', Affirmed, the 'Bid', Man O'War and other horses listed in Bloodhorse.com's bracket listing voting that fans did recently...

Because of breeding $$$ aka the likes of Darley Farms, the sport has gone from racing to see where your horse's legacy is in the sport to a commodity market just like oil....

The excuses for the connections of Big Brown are all in place as to why they won't race Big Brown pass the Travers Stakes, regardless if he wins the Belmont...

That quarter crack problem...

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

StarsintheSky — Tue, 27 May 2008 21:31:03 GMT

Could the main issue not be genetics, but management with the use of steroids?

The NYT story cited above,

therail.blogs.nytimes.com/.../the-last-winstrol-derby

suggests them as a primary cause. With the distortion caused by the steroids, the increase in injuries, if that exists, could be more a reflection of steroids, not breeding programs.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

draynot — Tue, 27 May 2008 19:56:20 GMT

Imagine that, the Big Ole Browneye is havin problems with his tootsies? This horsie should walk away with the Triple Crown. I smell a rat. These are not classy connections. It seems they need an excuse in case he gets beat. Too bad this horse didn't land with a Nafzger or Matz.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Janesville Liz — Tue, 27 May 2008 15:48:56 GMT

To all the people who feel Big Brown is a great horse--that is premature. He has had only five starts. His wins have been visually brilliant, but he has beaten no colt of the highest class. He has not met champion War Pass, and even he has distance limitations. Colonel John did not make the transition from synthetic to dirt, Pyro did not measure up, Tale of Ekati and Denis of Cork are nice horses, but definitely a cut below Big Brown. Tale of Ekati had to have the help of a rabbit to beat War Pass, and then both crawled home in the Wood. My opinion is that the best horse he has beaten was the ill-fated filly Eight Belles, who was brilliant and in a class by herself. I feel if she had been in the Oaks the day before the Derby, as brilliant as Proud Spell was, Eight Belles would have taken her measure with ridiculous ease. None too quick to show her talent as a juvenile, once when she figured it out, Eight Belles was brilliance personified. Big Brown's competition in the Preakness was pitiful. You do not get to be acclaimed as great by beating up on non-stakes-winning mutts. In my opinion, greatness comes with not only dominating the best horses in your own age group, but meeting and conquering the best representatives of the older generation. That right now would be Curlin. And just for fun, I would like to see Big Brown do a Secretariat and run on the grass. Being out of a Nureyev mare with a second dam by Lear Fan, he should like the grass. It would be a less punishing surface for his fragile feet and I think a victory on the grass would add another dimension to his resume. Curlin's people have mentioned the Arc de Triomphe as a possible race for their champion--would that not be cool to see Big Brown and Curlin meet on the grass at Longchamp against the best of Europe? I know it would never happen, but it is fun to dream. Or, I would like to see the two of them meet in the Suburban Handicap in early July. A 1-1/4 mile handicap--not weight-for-age. They might actually carry equal weight based on their accomplishments. Now that would separate the men from the boys.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Mint Hill Farm — Tue, 27 May 2008 13:51:15 GMT

Having been to Three Chimneys numerous times over the last 25 years, I feel that Big Brown will be in the very best of hands at this farm. They are the great caretakers. I don't think he will be over bred. As for continuing to race him after the Belmont, there is the old saying, "No foot, No horse"...so, if his feet are a management issue and it is best to retire him, I wouldn't look at it that the Big Brown contingency doesn't want to risk the horse's future in the breeding shed. Maybe they just don't want to risk the horse's health, period. He has been managed carefully and I have

to think that will continue. It's the horses that no one talks about; the bottom of the barrel claimers all of the country, that need our concern more. These are the horses that have no future. Big Brown's future is something we can all look forward to.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

predict — Tue, 27 May 2008 02:59:47 GMT

Joe, I really don't think Lost in the Fog lost the BC sprint because of a class hike. More likely he lost because he wasn't feeling well. He was diagnosed with cancer a short time after he returned home. It remains suspect that two of the horses to run at the Belmont BC that year developed the same cancer , and they were both favored in their races that year. I believe it is extremely rare for a horse to develop cancer, and yet two were taken down with the same disease ,and did not perform well in their races at Belmont. Coincidence? I think not. Both died from their cancer .

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Gman59063 — Tue, 27 May 2008 01:35:28 GMT

Hey Joe, I think you need to tap that tabacco down a little tighter and take a bigger puff! You may not think BB has been tested, but so far he has beaten the rest very easily! Maybe if Dennis of Cork was such a great horse he could have kept up with the leaders, after all they were just walking! Anyway I hope you bet a load on Tale of Ekati and Dennis of Cork and once again you won't cash a winner on the Belmont!

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Hank — Tue, 27 May 2008 01:12:23 GMT

Hey Monica you are 100% correct, I love reading all the comments in here, whether I agree or not doesn't matter, I always seem like I walk away with a little more knowledge than I started with. I hate to say this but after the Belmont I sort of lose interest till BC, who cares about Saratoga. Triple crown and BC you get everyone together.All the best horses,jocks,trainers and owners

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

MonicaV — Mon, 26 May 2008 17:31:21 GMT

I've really enjoyed this BLOG. The differences in opinion make it really interesting. I respect everyone's opinion on this blog even if I don't agree. You're all terrific! Thanks for the facts and the thoughts!

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

MonicaV — Mon, 26 May 2008 17:29:26 GMT

Janesville Liz,

You are one smart lady and your thoughts are the same as mine. I feel that the quarter crack issue came up as a prelude to retiring him early and will be an excuse if he loses the Belmont. They won't retire him immediately after the Belmont, they'll wait a while and make people think he'll be returning and then find his feet are just too bad. They did the same thing with Smarty Jones after the Belmont. Some injury surfaced that never had before. I'm not saying there wasn't one but there is a possibility there wasn't. The breeders wanted him in the breeding shed and out of the races

to avoid injury.

As far as greatness, I feel BB has the potential to be but as someone else said on here, the truly great ones were battle tested time and time again. Race records up to 60 starts? Incredible. Horses nowadays don't race that much. The more a horse loses, the more chance he will lose. Spectacular Bid lost the Belmont and what did that prove? Nothing. He races 26 times and won 23. That's incredible. His greatness wasn't diminished by the loss. There were 3 TC winners in the decade of the 70's and none since. They've discussed shortening the Belmont because of the problem of horses not winning all 3 in all these years. I hope they don't because one day maybe this year, one will do it and it won't be as special if the distance is altered.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Karen — Mon, 26 May 2008 17:11:15 GMT

Janesville Liz: You do sound very cynical. In today's day and age, it is best to enjoy what we have while we have it. If you study racing history, it will show that in many cases there are excuses for why the greats got beat. This is nothing new. Many of the reasons, I believe, are legitimate. Some, maybe not. That aside, quarter cracks aren't something to take lightly. If the triple crown weren't on the line, I would say BB would be getting some time off. I can only hope that the connections of BB are going to do what is best by BB regardless of what is on the line. Regardless, BB has been a joy to watch and I can hardly wait until Belmont. He is a spectacular sight. Did anyone read Steve Haskins responses to readers questions on the Bloodhorse? He made a comment that BB has something special and he hasn't been around a horse like him in 40 years. Not just his talent, but everything about him.In person, he has that quality. Steve said it was hard to explain, but it was undeniably there. If anyone knows, he would. I have said it all along. BB is nothing but class. I am truly enjoying this ride.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Monika at Stardance — Mon, 26 May 2008 15:57:30 GMT

Apparently, racing is no longer the Sport of Kings, but rather the investment of entrepreneurs. It seems that breeding and training decisions are made based on love of the Thoroughbred and the sport with distressing infrequency. Unfortunately, we will most likely never see another Exterminator or Kelso honor our tracks.

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Naive Nellie — Mon, 26 May 2008 11:12:17 GMT

Who's to say quarter cracks are an excuse? If the horse has them, and if it's really in his best interests not to race, now Iaverone will be accused of having lied. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

About the Winstrol: what's the dosage? Do we even know? Doesn't it matter?

re: A Plea To Iavarone: Part 2

Joe — Mon, 26 May 2008 01:36:07 GMT

Folks, to all who have event put Big Browns name on the same page as the greats, like "Big Red", Seattle Slew, and Man O War, you should not be allowed at the track.

This horse has beat no one. So he sat of some of the slowest fractions in recent Derbys, and won. He then faced an even weaker group in Baltimore, and won. The most impressive horse in the Derby was Denis of Cork. Came from last, picked his way through traffic, and closed for third, even with very slow fractions. Dont know about you, but its pretty hard to make up ground when they walk up front. Denis of Cork did it.

Have a feeling Tale of Ekati and Denis of Cork will be the Belmont exacta. Of course, when the other jocks use their horse to wear Big Brown out, his connections will cry. But look what happened to Smarty Jones. One jock after another used their horse to wear him out, and his connections made no excuse. That is the difference here---the class of people. If Big Brown wins the TC, it will be bad for racing. Those people---trainer and owner, have no respect for others.

To say, it would be bad for Curlin, is very unclassy. Also, for Big Brown to face Curlin, it would be a big class jump. Same as Lost in the Fog, going into the BC Sprint.