Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

1800s — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:39:39 GMT

This is SundaySilence and easygoer all over again.

No respect for california pony

and just like the great Sunday Silence, Zenyatta will prevail and

crush the eastcoast.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

sweet terchi — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:26:19 GMT

If one is going to use a degrading name, make sure it applies to the appropiate party, that way one gets off on the right foot to start with.

What a weekend! Zenyatta on the west coast and RA on the east coast! Zenyatta was a magnificent sight to see!

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

barb — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:10:17 GMT

Zen Doubter...I basically agree with everything you have said in your 8:55am post (and have said alot of it myself). I never had an issue with the Mosses because even though the schedule they set out is boring for the fans and not very challenging to Z at least the goal is the BC (and all year I have heard that they are considering the Classic). I am convinced that JJ only cares for himself, not "the good of racing" as he says. You give many of the reasons in your post. He is not considering that RA is a different horse than Curlin. I also don't see him as a hero for bringing his champ 3 y/o back at 4 (that should be normal, not cause for a parade. IMO). Wouldn't that make the Mosses bigger heroes for bringing their champ 4 y/o back at 5? I am happy to report that I was able to enjoy RA on sat., I found that once she got on the track I didn't care what people she is involved with. And she was fabulous. Though Calvin's showboating is starting to annoy me a little, celebrate after the finish line. I think it is disrespectful to the other connections to stand up and wave to the cameras before the race is over. As to if the 2 girls meet... I think the big race for RA is still the Travers, so I'm guessing she won't face older until late sept or oct. I would also guess that that would be the time frame Z would likely have "open" for travel east. Oct 3 is the Grade 1 Beldame(9 furlongs for f&m 3&up) and the G1 Jockey Club Gold Cup (10f open company 3&up) both on the main track at Belmont. I think the JCGC would be a better overall field, the Beldame could turn into a match race(although I hope someone would run for the rest of the money!). It will be a fun summer whatever happens!

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Zenyatta Dounter — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:55:14 GMT

Barb:

You are correct. I was off on the weights...I did a search and went with what was printed in a column insteasd of what was on Equibase...

And you are also correct that Jess Jackson has not plotted out chance for the two to meet like he did with Curlin, BUT until this weekend Zenyatta's owner had never given any indication that I had seen that he was interested in meeting Rachel Alexaandra on a neutral track...his comments were only that we are preparing Zenyatta for the Breeders Cup and that was all.

Jerry and Ann Moss are class acts and I applaud them finally stating that they are interested in making this a reality.

As for the comparison of Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta...I know Zenyatta was carrying high weight...but they both did the same distance...and Rachel set a stakes record...and her time was almost 2 seconds faster than Zenyatta and she was easing up in the stretch.

Zenyatta deserves credit for her record -- going undefeated. I have stated that she is one of the best horses to ever run on an artificial surface, but we cannot know whether she is one of the best horses ever because she has never faced the boys.

Rachel faced some of the best three year olds and has made the case that she is the best three year old out there. She may even be the best horse out there on a dirt track. Time will tell on that.

I actually do not know what Jess Jackson's problem is with the artificial surfaces. Rachel had a convincing win over the surface last October at Keeneland so she has shown an ability over the surface. Just because Curlin did not perform well his first time over the track should not be a determining factor IMHO. After all, over the Monmouth Park track Curlin lost the first time, but he never lost two races on the same surface. He won the Breeders Cup Classic on the Montmouth Park track after losing the Haskell and then he won the Jockey Club Gold Cup twice after losing the Belmont Stakes. I think Curlin could have won on Pro-Ride had he had a prep race over the surface or if he had a trainer who had more success on turf or artificual surfaces, but that is not Asmussen's forte.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Lady Ruffian — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:13:02 GMT

LDP - its obvious that you're set in your opinions & thats all fine & great. but to say that the way that im typing is ignorant because im not taking your 'easy' way is ignorant is simply foolish. you're not the only one who thrives on debates.

im glad you differentiated the fact that you know a horse from its human connections b/c when you type idiotic statements such is 'zen was too chicken earlier' your the one who looks ignorant.

BTW LDP in your 26 Jun 2009 7:42 PM post, i believe you meant 'sense' ;)

and either way, seeing that both horses won today - both against weak competition & that Zen's people want her to face Rachel, who's the 'chicken' now LDP?

glad to see both horses came home safely and am looking forward to when they meet up.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Racingfan — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:48:44 GMT

Well that interview was about as vague as possible. No real answers there at all! I did read an article awhile back though that indicated that he doesn't favor running fillies with colts so that may be the answer to Zenyatta sticking with the girls. As far as the 129 impost-from what I read trainers and owners are never happy with weight assignments but that is part of the challenge to great and potentially great horses. It looks like that may be Zenyatta's only real challenge this year but I believe she is up to it!

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

barb — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 03:41:24 GMT

Zenyatta Doubter...Of the schedule I have seen for RA Z can't run in any of those races because she is (as you pointed out) 5. The possible races I have seen on RA's schedule are for 3 y/os (Travers,Haskell, Alabama). I have not read anything about her fall campaign except that she will not go to BC. I love how people expect Zen to go east to race RA but never take into account that RA hasn't opened herself up to older horses yet and they have no plans that I've seen to do so before fall at least. Also people keep talking about winning the Travers as if it is the end of the season, it's not. It is known as the "mid-summer Derby". And RA(and the other Mother Goose starters) will be carrying 121 lbs on Sat, not 129.

All I know is that my enthusiasm for RA has gone down the drain. Not because of her but because I just don't like seeing people like JJ rewarded. And I think I'm as mad at JJ for ruining my enjoyment of her as I am for him being such a hypocite. People have commented that if he hadn't bought her she wouldn't have run in the Preakness. Maybe not. But she would have run at the Breeders Cup.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Zenyatta Doubter — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:45:54 GMT

Ginger Punch obviously did not like the polytrack...

Granted GP did lose to her in the Apple Blossom - on dirt her surface...but for me that and the BC Distaff are Zenyatta's only meaningful wins against quality competition...and look where it was - on her home track.

We will never know if Zenyatta was one of the best mares never.

Sure, she'll get best older mare, but if Rachel is undefeated at the end of the year I bet she gets Horse of the Year because as a filly she has beat tougher competition. She has won against the boys.

If Zenyatta runs in the BC classic on her home track and wins...that will say something...and I bet then she would get HOTY but without that she's just another good filly...

She's the best mare in the west...and Rachel has proven she is one of the best horses -- maybe the best in the East.

Now, I think JJ was silly running Rachel in the Preakness...

I think her breeding is well suited to the Belmont -- and then she could have won a race Curlin didn't win...given JJ another classic and stopped a triple crown...which would have been a much bigger deal...IMHO

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Zenyatta Doubter — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:11:54 GMT

Zenyatta is a 5 year old carrying 129 pounds and there are complaints out there...and then you look at Rache Alexandra who is no where near as big as Zenyatta this weekend and she is carrying the same weight...

I think it is a shame that we will NEVER know if Zenyatta was one of the best horses ever. She certainly is probably the best pro-ride surface mare of all time...but her owners and trainers refusing to meet Rachel Alexandra on the dirt is preventing us from knowing just how good she is.

I think she is beautiful and she has proven that she can win on dirt. And that is great. However, she has only faced lesser competition except in two races...her race on dirt and the Breeders Cup distaff...

If any mare can win against the males I would think it would be Zenyatta - and if any mare could beat Rachel Alexandra I would certainly think it would be Zenyatta...but we'll never see it and that is a darn shame...

At least the Eclipse voters got it right last year...Curlin was by far Horse of the Year...

I hope this year a filly is Horse of the Year -- Rachel Alexandra...

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

LDP — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:42:35 GMT

Lady R,

Bear Now and CT are the flukes, and i've stated that the other two you listed hated the surface that is why i said zen beat flukes and horses that hated the surface. What got me mad in the first place is that many of you on here didn't have the scence to read between the lines, or you couldn't find anything else to challenge, so you found the dumbest thing to degrade my post by, the Zenyatta is a horse and can't make decisions thing. I know a horse can't make decisions, i use her name because she is associated also with her connections, it's easier than writing Zenyatta's connections every time. I actually like to debate, but to nit pick like that, and telling me Zen's a horse and can't make decisions is downright ignorant. Why because i know that, and say that to me is basicly like saying are you so stupid you can't tell a horse from a human? Maybe you didn't mean it that way but thats how it comes across, and it's insulting. I enjoy debates, thrive on them, i find them fun, but to nit pick at some thing like that over and over will end up setting me off.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

LDP — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:34:20 GMT

Lady R,

If he was coming so strong why wasn't he past her in the next five strides after the wire. No horse unless you put a western bit in their mouth can stop running that fast when they are coming so quick, so either he was flattening out or RA dug back. Either way she beat him and he never got past her.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Lady Ruffian — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:24:33 GMT

LDP

I know that MTB is a legit horse. hence i said 'originaly labled a fluke.' I think you said it best. 'read between the lines.' and more than once I've said my praise for MTB and his owners. I think that little gelding is a wonderful asset to racing. and his owners seem like class acts. again hats off to MTB. and IMO if the Preakness was another furlong longer that brave little horse may have had Rachel. NOT diminishing from what she did by winning the Preakness, but really he was coming on so strong.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Carlos in Cali. — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:24:24 GMT

Gotta' love it..hee-hee.....Jason say something,you're too damn quiet.Hope you're not "Chessiefied" }:

How about handicapping this weekends Stakes races with us.And what happened to the Live Blog thingy?

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Lady Ruffian — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:58:00 GMT

Who said Nicanor is unbeatable? Every horse is beatable because none are machinces - flesh & blood and all are allowed to have 'bad days' That horse is on the improve & when he hits the board (again) perhaps people like you who seem to have nothing positive to say about animals who are not on your prefered list will start recognizing that he has talent. different from his brothers, but talent nonetheless.

I don't know what has you so up in arms and willing to malisciously attack anyone who has a different take or stand than what you do but it only makes you look like an obnoxious individual hell bent on pushing their view points on people who could care less.

I also don't see how Ginger Punch & Hystericalady are 'flukes' that reasoning should be expalined. Tell me also how a horse like Tough Tiz's Sis is a fluke? Zenyatta made her eat dust also. Who cares if the horses who came in behind Zen in the distaff have 'done nothing since' IMO they're not 'great' horses, they're solid competition. Consistant competitiors. Good runners. There is a huge differance between good and great and the word great gets thrown around far too freely.

so really LDP having an opinion is great, discussing an opinion in a construstive manner is great too; But coming off condescending is not only unnecessary but laughable as well. grow up. realize that people are going to have different stands on things & the way that you come off is abrasive & rude and makes you as unlikeable as Jess Jackson when he uses & reitterates the 'plastic' to make a point.

back to racing - i hope that both of the best ladies in the sport take their races tomorrow. i'll be at hollywood cheering on Big Z all the way to the finnish line

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

LDP — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:36:46 GMT

Lady R,

Also MTB has been found by many as legit, so yes he counts. MM was also a good horse, third in the Derby is good to me. FF and POTN i'll agree, but what about the others, are you telling me they all were injured or off their game? She like all came off a 2 week rest, and had also been running a race per 2.5 weeks on average.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

LDP — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:32:53 GMT

Carlos,

How may grade ones has CT won? And what has she won since that fluke victory. Zenyatta was great enough to win off a layoff, why can't these so called great horses she beat do it too? Also don't bring mike into this he's a friend and i refuse to pick an argument with him.

Lady Ruffian,

Your horse beat a bunch of flukes and horses that hated the track. The two who finished behind her have done nothing since. JJ plans on putting this filly in the Travers when she'll meet QR. When she wins i hope you'll eat your crow. On attacking Stardusty, i have nothing against Nicanor, but i even did the math and he ran only 94 exta feet. Granted the ground was horrible, but for him to run almost 1.53 is nothing special. He's good nown, but not unbeatable. My point is if you feel like that about a horse like him and make absurd comments why should i care what you believe.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Carlos in Cali. — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:49:46 GMT

...LDP: your obsession with RA has you going coo-coo. MN is a multiple Gr.I winner,she's raced only once so far this year(made an early move & flattened-out),watch what she does the rest of the year. CB is also a Gr.I winner on dirt/turf who's first race back was also short-looking.Don't forget that both of these Distaffers were coming off of a 7month lay-off.They're both proven quality horses,period.Plus a "fluke" doesn't win Graded stakes on multiple surfaces like CT did,do they?..Point being; Zenyatta has proven herself to be top-class against any and all,on Synth/dirt and out-of-state too. I'm not a Zenyatta apologist or her biggest fan,but I want to see RA beat a solid group of horses other than the tired colts in the Preakness or the allowance type of fillies she's whupped on her "tour".RA is a very good filly,but not on Zen's level just yet. BTW--had IWR,QR or The Pamplemousse been sound,folks wouldn't be talking this non-sense about RA being leading 3yo/HOTY contender right now would we?

C'mon,you're picking on the wrong horse to bash,..Zenyatta is legit,even Mike Relva would agree.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Lady Ruffian — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:32:49 GMT

LOLOLOL Ok LDP. Zen has danced every dance that her owners have put her in, and not only has she won - she's won with ease. I too would love to see her run against the boys because lets face it- she's beaten every filly woth beating & besides Rachel theres nobody left. Oh and LDP if you'd like play the 'she never beat anyone game' tell me; who has Rachel beaten? An off his game Pioneer? An injured Friesan Fire? A horse who was originally labled a fluke? When she takes on some real competition; say Stardom Bound or Quality Road let me know ok?

& before you go trying to attack StardustyRose for her Nicanor belief - realize that it is a very rare maiden winner who scores a triple digit beyer. ;)

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

LDP — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:56:52 GMT

Would you people just give it a break. If all you can do is nit pick at my post you are all getting pretty darn pathetic. By Zenyatta i mean her connections, it's called reading between the lines.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Saratoga AJ — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:45:36 GMT

Matthew W:

"those tracks of champions you mentioned are all EAST COAST TRACKS"

Since when is Churchill Downs an East Coast track? Check out the map! And if you want to get technical, neither is Saratoga.

The fact remains that Churchill, Belmont, Saratoga and Pimlico are the most historic and famous tracks in the country. Where all the greats have run. I'd love to see Zenyatta show what she could do at any of those great racing venues.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

sweet terchi — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:29:40 GMT

It's a bit vacant to say Zen is a chicken since she doesn't make the decisions, her connections do. For my part I heard Jackson clucking and squawking pretty down loud.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Freetex — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 02:48:45 GMT

To me, Zenyatta is the Queen and Rachel Alexandra is the Princess.

Royalty, no matter what.

Still dislike assigned weights. Let the runners run.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

Mike Relva — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:13:42 GMT

TO:LAZMANNICK

Thank you for defending Zenyatta. Your loyality is appreciated. I love this horse and been on her from the very start of her remarkable career,also admire her connections cause the illustrate the "right way" of putting the horse first regardless what some crybaby fans think!

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

LDP — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:39:06 GMT

Workhorse,

Thank you for the compliment. Horses, especially racers, have and will be the passion of my life.

re: Q & A With Zenyatta Trainer John Shirreffs

LDP — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:27:51 GMT

Stardusty,

She's too big, her butt would sink. I know your belief, and it mirrors your belief nobody can beat Nicanor.

Lady Ruffian,

The only time Zen beat anyone was in the AB. In the distaff GP and Hysterical lady both hated the surface, so they didn't run a great race, CT was a fluke if i ever saw one, and what has Bear Now done since? MN has done nothing this year, and CB i think finished 4th of four in her last. Wow what a great field. When she goes out of state and wins again against some real horses, or faces colts let me know.