Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Slew.em.All — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:34:12 GMT

Draynay,what are you talking about?"here to protect the greatest"huh?..I said:I'm here to debunk YOUR claim that BB is the greatest.Plus,I never said Secreteriat was the best either,where did you get that from?Though BB is not in his league anyways..So you rode on BB's jock,and now your the Handicapping King eh?..Believe me I've had my share of winnings buddy,I'm quite capable of picking winners.Just because I had Pyro in the Derby doesn't mean I'm Hank Goldberg(LOL)..whats with your ongoing tirades of small fields vs large fields?I'd be more impressed if a horse whipped 4/5 solid horses than 19 bad ones as BB did..You just don't get it,do you.People that live in glass houses,....lol

Karen: Yes we all have our opinions and speculations,thats part of the game.And I can't knock you for your Horse Racing passion,I'm quite guilty of that myself.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Karen — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:14:53 GMT

Slew: I will respectfully agree to disagree with you. You seem to know what you are talking about when it comes to horse racing but have formed your own opinion of BB which I completely disagree with. But that is what makes the world go around. I will say that your speculation that BB would have finished last is just that, pure speculation. Kent should know better. Regardless, none of this is BB's fault. His people failed him. All of them.

Yes, I have a tendency to get attached to these horses. Part of the game. My voice is for the horse who knows nothing of all this madness. I appreciate your advice but that is something that will never change with me. My attachment that came with BB was the thrilling performances and the commanding races he ran. That is why we are fans of racing right? I feel equal attachment to Curlin although I was far more of a Hard Spun fan during last years campaign. You can't knock me for that.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

draynay — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:45:30 GMT

Youre here to protect the greatest ? Don't you understand there is no such thing. The greatest horse is like saying who was the greatest boxer. I saw the best performance ever in a Kentucky Derby this year Big Browns' is better than any horse including Secretariat. Secretariat best 3 Tiple Crown races combined ever. Best horse ? Lol.. a few can make that claim Secretariat never ran past 3 and lost 3 times as a 3 year old against very small fields so I can't give it to him. So tell me Slew what do you think your really doing besides picking wrong horses to win races? I mean someone with so much knowledge should be able to pick a winner huh ? I was dead right about the Florida Derby and the Derby and the Preakness and whoops Big Brown gets hurt misses a few jogs and then gets beat. 3 out of four in any sport makes me a hero... you still have not picked a winner yet and still....you run your mouth...lol.. pick a winner than come back and tell us how smart you are until then you just sound silly.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Slew.em.All — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:26:16 GMT

Karen: I never mentioned nor do I feel that I'm better than anyone else,I just stated the fact that I know 1st hand how/why steroids are used other than for therepeutic reasons,simply because I'm at the farms.Also,I STILL think BB is not as good as he seems,let him race against top class company first.He's talented but,let's wait and see.Sure he won from the 20-hole,but he had the easiest of trips against a bunch of ducks.As far as Pyro is concerned,I stated right after the Derby that he got pinched-back at the break,was last after the 1st 3 strides,and lost ALL chance.Everybody knows that you don't recover from that in the 20 field Derby.But,I said my piece once,then moved on,no need in crying over burnt biscuits!..BB had a fine break in the Belmont,his little mishap,if you can call it that,shouldn't be an excuse for him not being competetive.Desormeaux had him where he was accustomed to,out wide,trouble free.He just throw in the towel,plain & simple."No Mas"!ala Roberto Duran.Desormeaux was honest when he said BB "had nothing left",so he pulled in the reigns on him.What's that saying?"Live to fight another day".Shame on you folks who are calling for his jockey's head,he was going to finish last any damn way!Didn't ya'll see how fast he was backing-up on the far turn?My first thought was he bled,and maybe Kent did too...I hope you get your wish and become a productive member of this Industry,but if you do;Rule No:1..you can't get attached too much to any certain horse or horses,like you have with BB..lets proceed shall we?...Draynay: you Ignorant Iguana(LOL)..What good is a fresh horse if their no faster than a Llama?Absolutely it's a weak crop this year,just look at the time for the Belmont..and stop saying that the quarter cracks are a factor,they're NOT.You sure are singing a totally different tune than the one before,and during the 1st 2 legs of the TC aren't you?..I'm not here to bash BB,my sole purpose is to debunk and counter-act your foolish claims of BB being the Greatest!Get real!That's blasphemous!..since you brought up last years crop,Rags To Riches would've ran circles around BB,in my opinion.After she anhillated All fillies thrown at her,she beat the colts in the Belmont while going to her nose at the break,racing 4/5 wide all the way to the top of the stretch and showing tremendous determination in holding off the Great Curlin.She,should've been the 12th TC Winner.That folks,is a true Classic Champion!..too bad she was injured during her last race and was subsequently retired after trying to make a comeback.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

draynay — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:56:24 GMT

Slew...Lol... you work in a high profile So. California breeding farm...lol...now I know why you know nothing about fast horses. The 3 year old field is weak ...blah blah blah its not weak when you have FRESH horses and jockeys gunning for you. I wish Big Brown had only 4 other horses to worry about but that is not how it works now. They keep throwing fresh horses at you and like it or not Big Brown was injured before the race. The connections said it was fine... well good for them can they talk to horses now? NO ONE knows how a horse will respond to a quarter crack. When you beat a healthy Big Brown come back and talk to me and yes he is STILL the best 3 year old I have ever seen. Weak 3 year old crop...lol... was last year weak too? Curlin was still growing up and just got beat by a filly. Hard Spun was still running a quarter of a mile too far and Street Sense was nothing out of Churchill. Slew did you come here just to run your mouth on Big Brown? A horse who has had to battle bad feet forever and now has to battle them again.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Karen — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:35:08 GMT

Slew.em.all. I was not defending draynay, I was defending BB. I also agree 100% that steroids should be banned. I am just getting tired of the same old song and dance that BB didn't perform well because he was off his meds. First and foremost, who really knows for sure he didn't get his injection. Secondly, who's to say Da'Tara isn't on a regular roids schedule. Yes, they are abused and they are also used for therepeutic reasons. You should know this if you assist in breaking horses at a high profile breeding farm. It is pure speculation on your part that BB performed his other races so well based on roids. Read Steve Haskins article. That will give you some good pointers on roid use.

If I am making excuses for BB's loss, you are making excuses for Pyros loss in the Derby. I am calling it like I see it. Kent had a hold on BB the moment he came out of the gate with no clear direction from Kent, BB did not know what to do. Just my opinion and that of many others as well. I understand jockying for position. It is the key to the race, period. It is also the jockeys job. I happen to think Kent made some poor split decisions because he had tunnel vision. All he cared about was getting BB to the outside. He failed to listen to his horse and let the race unfold and dictate his position.

Apparantly you must think breaking from the 20th post and winning the derby is an easy task. If I am correct, only one other horse in history has ever accomplished that. According to the Ragozin and Thoro-graph numbers he posted the fastest Derby ever. His explosive turn of foot in the Preakness was thrilling. They weren't posting soft fractions either. They were solid. I simply can recognize BB's accomplishments without comparing him to the greats of history. I never stated he was the greatest horse ever. I just stated he was talented and had run some brilliant races. He had a horrible trip in the Belmont and in my opinion caused him the race. Just like I think Afleet Alex's trip in the derby, cost him that race. With a better trip, Alex would have been a triple crown winner, no doubt in my mind.

I take offense to your sarcastic comments about me being an animal lover and horse rescuer. Clearly you feel because you "assist" in breaking yearlings in a "high profile" breeding farm, you are far better than a animal lover and horse rescuer. I am an avid horse racing/horse fan period. I have closely followed horse racing since I was very young. I love the sport. There is nothing more amazing to me than a thoroughbred doing what he/she was bred to do.I have ridden most of my life. I was a barrel racer and event horse rider in my younger days and currently ride dressage (its slower and Im older). We have quarter horses and my two retired race horses, which is my contribution to the industry I hold so dear. I would give anything to be on the backside of a track and be involved in the business, but I am not. That does not make me some Johnny come lately. I can hold my own. That is not to say that I am an expert as I would never say that. I have strong opinions and voice them openly, but I am also open minded and can see things from other views as well. Sitting back and letting BB take a verbal beating is not something I can do. He does not have a voice and he doesn't deserve it.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Slew.em.All — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:58:32 GMT

Karen:that's so noble of you always sticking up for draynay..anyways,for your information,Yes I definately do know what steroids are used for in Thoroughbreds,and let me tell you,it's not what Dutrow said it's "strictly" for.Steroids are also performance enhancers both for humans/thoroughbreds,period..I know this because I assist in breaking yearlings and 2y.o.'s in a high profile So.California Breeding Farm.And I know 1st hand that the majority of consignors "treat" their yearlings w/roids' to make them look "Alert" at the sales.They also administer their 2y.o.'s w/roids' to keep them on their toes,so they can work that fast 1/8th in order to get the high bids.And yes,I know that most trainers use roids' in their stables,they should be banned as far as I'm concerned.I beleive BB's performance was compromised somewhat to him NOT getting his monthly Dose.It's like an human athlete when they Stop taking their Dose,their performances are not as prolific..You also are making ALL kinds of excuses for BB's loss.Let it Go!..Desormeaux HAD TO take-up on BB,he practically ran-up on Da'Taras' heels!.Maybe you should take off your blinkers in order to see the big picture.It's called "jockeying for position",and if you don't understand that,then you don't understand Horse Racing..As far as me "ripping" BB,I'm glad to say that I'm from the Old School of thought,and since Day1 I never bought into the fact that he's the greatest as draynay claims he is.In my 30+ yrs. of being a racing enthusiast,I still think BB has had an easy/lucky year so far.Reason being this is a Weak crop of 3y.o's,and he's got the most talent,plain and simple..So what are your credentials?,other than rescueing horses and being an animal lover.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Karen — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:20:59 GMT

Slew.em.All: I feel the need to point out something to you. Not in the deffense of Draynay as that is yours and his war to battle. But because it needs to be done in the defense of BB. I can't help but notice your quick defense of Pyro and stating his bad break out of the gate lost him the race, however despite everything we saw during the Belmont, you refuse to acknowledge anything that could have went wrong with BB and call them all excuses. Wouldn't you say that your reason for Pyro not winning the derby is, well... um.. and excuse? I think it is fair to say we all have our favorites for one reason or another. Including you. Stop beating up on BB. He doesn't deserve it.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Slew.em.All — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:08:18 GMT

LOL draynay,still bitter eh?..I said right after the Derby that my pick,Pyro had a terrible break and that cost him any chance,end of story.You,by the way keep making ALL kinds of excuses why BB lost.The most intriguing one is about his hoof problem.It sure wasn't a problem before,during and after the first 2 legs of the TC,and Now it's the Main reason he lost?..what a back-peddling sour-puss you are..keep reading your copy of "Beginners Guide to Horse Racing Legends".You,my man have proven to know nothing(just ask 80% of the bloggers on here')lol...All you did was post stats you got from the Horse Racing Encyclopedia..And you still think BB is the best 3y.o. you ever seen?Is this your 1st 6mths. of watching horse races?..Hey there's a 2y.o. at River Downs that just broke his maiden by 9 1/2 lengths,think he's the next Great One?..Simply put,Jason pointed out BB's allowance win,you Ran with it,he turned out to be a good horse and now your Mr.Know-it-all?..Boom outta' here!

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Karen — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:01:39 GMT

Slew.em.all: What do you know about steroid use in horses? Are you familiar with them? Do you know what they are used for and why? Do you think that any other trainers... say.... Nick Zito, Todd Pletcher, D.Wayne Lucas, Bob Baffert... use steroids on their horses? Do you think Da'Tara could have had?

Do you own horses? Have you ever been on a horse? Do you understand their mental ability? Their limits? Their personalities?

Do you think breaking from the 20 post in the derby is the easy way??

Just curious as it appears to me your beef is with Draynay so therefore you are ripping an innocent horse.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

draynay — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:22:18 GMT

Slew.em.all do you want me to post who you thought was going to win the Derby ? You know nothing so move on.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Slew.em.All — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:00:39 GMT

"accomplished so much in such a short period of time".Yes draynay,with the help of Roids' and sorry sapps as opponents.Listen Dutrow made a smart move in opting for the 20-hole:to avoid ALL contact with other horses(as i stated b4 the derby).He's just not accustomed to bumping & race riding.We seen what happened when he didn't get his customary easy way,he simply spit-the-bit and threw a tissy-fit!.. as I thought he would,in the Derby no-less..Too much,too soon in my opinion,is what done him in.Also the "Juice" out of his system was a factor too!..Ponder this: who did a worse training job prepping for the Belmont? Servis or Dutrow?..LOL..paybacks a .....! And "they" simply didn't deserve to be the 12th TC champions,period! Yours Truly,

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

draynay — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:08:08 GMT

Phileboy let me make one thing very clear. I still think Big Brown is the best 3 year old I have ever seen. Despite what you think Big Browns performance in the Kentucky Derby will never be surpassed. Out of the 20 post 4 wide all the way around and win by 5...lol.. you will never ever see a horse win out of the 20 post in your lifetime again. You can deny or say what you want but Big Brown was injured going into that race and they rolled the dice and hoped they could get one more race out of his broken foot but as you saw they could not. Horses don't speak but its obvious to everyone that Big Brown was not the same and the only thing different was a quarter crack that needed attention and caused him to change his routine. A little rest and a little healing and Big Brown will be back to rule once again. How you can bash a horse that has accomplished so much in such a short period of time despite injury is beyond me. Are you a fan of the sport or just someone who needs attention?

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Phileboy — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 02:22:38 GMT

The notion that Ken Desormeaux someone how contributed to BB's loss is the most ludicrous statement I've heard since -- well, at least since Draynay all but insisted that it was God's Eleventh Commandment that BB HAD to win the Belmont and that anyone who disagreed with that assertion was an ignoramous, a heathen and a philistine, to boot. Does anyone know how laughable the Desormeaux-caused-the-horse-to-lose theory sounds in retrospect? Get this straight: BB could have had Arcaro, Hartack, Bailey . . . or Charlton Heston re-duplicating his equine prowess in the chariot race from the movie "Ben Hur" on his back . . . AND IT WOULDN'T HAVE MATTERED ONE IOTA! Do you know why that's so? Well, the reason is . . . THE HORSE JUST DIDN'T HAVE IT AND COULDN'T BE CARRIED ACROSS THE FINISH LINE ON DESORMEAUX'S BACK! Yes, Ken D. may have moved too soon a decade ago aboard Real Quiet when Victory Gallop nipped him at the wire, but to fault him for his ride on Big Brown is silly. On a second front, I must say it's funny to see how muted Draynay is on his posts now. He sounds almost touchy-feely and full of bonhomie, ready to sing "Kumbaya" around the camp fire, doesn't he? Yep, he's taking a sort of "Hey, what can you do? He just didn't want to run that particular day. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again." Nice try, Draynay, but you're engaging in a bit of revisionist history, here, it seems to me, in that you're not owning up to your original comments in which you not only insisted that Big Brown was one of the greatest horses that ever lived, but maintained that anyone who didn't agree with you was a blithering moron who ought to felt blessed to have had an opportunity to witness the genius of your insight. Seems to me, that your fatalistic attitude is almost a bit of "past posting" after the results are already in . . . Sure, now you're adopting this "hey, sometimes horses just don't run and I've been wrong before" posture . . . but the fact is, you flamed everyone who didn't see this horse as the second-coming or necessarily think the horse couldn't be beat.

Well, let's leave aside, for the moment, your peverse need to have not only gotten your point across, but to nastily denigrate those that didn't agree with you. What you CAN'T avoid is that you're certitude that BB was a great horse is totally and absolutely without any basis in fact. He's not a "great" horse, because a "great" horse is at least COMPTETIVE, even on their bad days, particularly when they are running against a field that COMBINED to win a total of FIVE prior graded stakes races (that's ALL graded stakes, not just G-1 races) in their entire lives. But he performed in much the same way that Mark McGuire hit home runs after he stopped taking steroids, didn't he? A final thought: the final time of 2:29 and change is more than five seconds slower -- or roughly 25 lengths -- than the 2:24 recorded by Secretariat. Just know this: This horse will NEVER be thought of as anything resembling a GREAT horse, or one for the ages, for at least three major reasons: (1) He came up small when all the chips were on the line; (2) He's never beaten older horses, but only a bunch of rag-a-muffin, mediocre lot; (3) He never carried weight in handicap events, giving concessions to other horses and beating them. Best, Phileboy

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Karen — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:52:53 GMT

Wow Former Fan: you are freakin out. I have been reading your posts to Draynay and it would appear to me you need some help buddy. You shouldn't let the comments on these boards get you so worked up. Taking out all your frustration on an innocent horse. I think it is safe to say that BB will never run in a claiming race. He is worth millions of dollars regardless of your opinion. C'mon Former fan, lighten up. These blogs are suppose to be enjoyable and fun. Not filled with hate and anger.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Appysrule — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:23:17 GMT

Anyone want to comment on the media reports that KD panicked and that was the reason for BB's loss?

Personally, I think it just wasn't the horses day, no shame in that. I do think that BB's loss detracted from the attention that should have been focused on the winner.

BTW there will never be another Secretariat...what a horse he was.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

FormerFan — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:22:48 GMT

Hey Draynay, the plug you said was far better than the great Secretariat finished last. Remember the nasty remarks you made about Sham. Well, now your Big Brownie has something in common with Sham, A LAST PLACE FINISH IN THE BELMONT STAKES. Hey Draynay, got anything else to say about Secretariat. Remember I told you that Big Brown will never do anything the almighty Secretariat did, well, I was right and YOU WERE WRONG. Ha Ha, so now you can shut your fat trap. Big Brown will never be as good as Big Red. Sounds like you are jealous that no horse will ever duplicate Big Reds triple crown run as well as his brilliant 2 year old season in which he won Horse of the Year. The only 2 year old to ever do that. Big Red faced older horses many times, yes he lost some, but he won when it counted and Big Brown was a BIG DUD when it counted. All the great ones in history have lost now and then. Draynay, you know nothing and I'm glad you post here so I have something to laugh about each day. Maybe they'll run Big Brown in a claiming race some day and you can claim him for your riding stable. Oh, by the way, Wait 'til Curlin Smokes him later this year, that is if the Big Dud is still able to run.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Karen — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 01:16:16 GMT

Fanofclass: no, I don't believe there are two Karen's posting. I did praise Kent for pulling up BB. When I posted that I had not heard that there was no injury to BB. I thought Kent pulled him up because he thought something was wrong. Then the more I watched the replay I was highly discouraged by what I saw at the beginning of the race and by how the race unfolded. My thoughts and opinions have changed drastically since yesterday as I have been able to re watch the race and listen to Kent. This race just doesn't add up to me. Just to clarify, I did not specifically come out and call someone ignorant. I specifically stated a comment was ignorant. And, I still stand by that. There were bloggers posting and boasting about BB being the only tc contender coming in dead last. That is an ignorant comment. He came in dead last due to a jockey that decided the race was over and eased him up. Had BB been allowed to continue running and came in dead last then that would be valid, but that's not what happened. Its hard to hold the horse responsible for coming in dead last when it was the jockeys fault. Agree?

There is no doubt I am an animal lover and defensive over BB. He has been exciting to watch this year and has shown exceptional talent and explosive turn of foot in the Preakness. It was thrilling. He deserves to be recognized for what he has accomplished. What I see are a bunch of people who claim BB sucks because he lost the Belmont. Smarty didn't suck, Funnycide didn't suck....Thats all I am about. Giving credit where credit is due.

As far as the steroids go, your in the medical field. He tested clean the day of the derby. He hasn't had a shot once since April. It's hard for me to believe the meds were still running with BB and training with him right up until the Belmont and then mysteriously caused him to peter out. Agree?

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

fanofclass — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:40:37 GMT

I did not badmouth you for not betting. I said I don't do it much myself but think people need to realize that point of view as well.

I said you were an animal lover,I believe you are. I am too. In fact I went out yesterday to feed the horses and told one of the fillies she could of outrun BB and she took off running around her paddock hell bent for leather. Whether she understood me or not who knows. I took exception to your remarks when you began proclaiming people's ignorance and defending draynay who insulted a multitude of people on this board. If there aren't two Karen's posting here, I'm getting confused because on this board you said in your post at 11:48 June 7 praise KD for pulling up the horse then lambasted him for pulling up the horse and calling for his suspension on the aftermath of the Belmont blog. If there is more than one Karen, then forgive me, my mistake. However, your comment about 'true fans' was a little pompous since you don't know any of these bloggers background, thus the comment I made. As far as your question about professional riders. My sister was an exercise rider who broke all of our race horses, got too big and is now a WPRA barrel racer, her husband is a PRCA calf roper. I used to ride in gymkhanas, but preferred the race track. I've known a lot of horsemen over the years including Lukas, VanBerg, Jolley, and even knew Todd Pletcher when he was little and his dad JJ (as we all called him)trained. Also knew Bubba Cascio trainer before Wayne of Dash for Cash. I've listened to all they've said over the years including Walter Merrick and Bill Locklear two of the greatest there ever were.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Karen — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 23:37:20 GMT

First to Flyin home: I didn't mean to refer to you in my last post. That was a mistake on my part.

Fan of class: Wow: you have some great credentials. I will concede that I shouldn't have said I had forgotten more about racing than you will ever know. I was defending myself and was quick with the keyboard as I felt you were also putting me in with the likes of peta or something. Calling me an animal lover who knows nothing about racing=peta.

With that said: I may not have the family history as my parents were not in the horse business, I have ridden and competed most of my life. Currently own 12 horses which include two retired race horses. One of which is a great greandson to the great War Admiral. The rest are active rodeo horses or rodeo horses in training. I shouldn't have claimed to know so much but at the same time feel I know my fair share. I have studied and followed the sport since I can remember. I am a observer and avid race fan. As far as my knowledge of horses feel although I don't know everything, I know my fair share and can bring my opinion to the table and feel it is educated and not just thrown off the top of my head. If I feel I have a valid point, I can respectfully disagree with others as I did with Draynay. You seem to be the only one who has a problem with it. Draynay and I could disagree respectfully and not take anything personal. I have also never stated that I am against betting. I agree it is imperative for the sport to survive. I just don't happen to bet. I do however have many people who call me for my opinion. I give it to them and have been right more than once. Obviously I have been wrong as well. Also keep in mind, sometimes those who aren't on the frontline have a different "outside" look at things. A non biased approach if you will. Don't count people out just because they are not trainers or assistant trainers, or because their family hasn't raised race horses for 80 years, or because no one in their family are currently professional riders (define professional)or in the medical field. You don't have to be a football player or have a brother who is a quarter back to understand football.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

fanofclass — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:49:14 GMT

Draynay,

Go back and read your own posts, Monica V sure thought you were insulting her and so did a number of others. I've been watching TVG as I've been working on CEU's I handicap when I have time, don't bet a lot but I do well when I do. I don't tout other people, who knows how much disposable income they have, and Karen doesn't bet. I can only say you are one angry young man.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

fanofclass — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:43:20 GMT

Karen,

I seriously doubt you have forgotten more than I know. My father has been training ranch, rode and race horses for 80 years we started racing horses 50 years ago, when I was a kid. We have retired and active rodeo and racehorses, broodmares and yearlings (including one descended from TC winner Count Fleet and Seabiscuit) I rode before I could walk, worked at the track as an assistant trainer and ponied horses on race day.Two of my family are professional riders. As far as discussing the law of physics and momentum, don't even go there, I already stated previously we are all degreed medical people, no brag just fact.

Being a fan is great, espousing your opinion like it's the gospel if you have never been on the frontlines doesn't give you much credibility. You took several people to task who disagreed with you and draynay, that's what I was cheering for. Also one of my previous posts said I read you didn't bet. I don't bet much but if someone didn't, like Matt, there wouldn't be a sport called horse racing. The cost is too prohibitive to just watch the horses run with the wind in their faces as one of the animal rights activists put it.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

draynay — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:22:14 GMT

Fanofclass what don't you get ? I was not talking about anyone person or blogger on this forum and did not call any Blogger here a fool or a clown. I was talking in general about so called industry experts that are wrong and wrong every time. At some point I would like them to be accountable for their horrible picks time and time again.

But instead of worrying about Karen or me how about sharing with us your handicapping knowledge and tell us who is going to win the 4th and 5th races at Belmont on Thursday.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Karen — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:11:30 GMT

Matt: I didn't call you "ignorant" I believe I stated that those who are boasting about BB coming in dead last were making ignorant comments considering BB was pulled up by his jockey. Several times I might add. Worst ride by a jockey ever.

re: Take It To The Bank: Big Brown Wins The Belmont

Karen — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:09:18 GMT

Matt and Fan of class: I have forgotten more about horse racing than you will ever know. Not only do I follow this sport with everything I have, I have been a horse owner and horse rider my entire life. I have two retired race horses in my pasture. My contribution to the sport I hold so dearly. Plus if you have seen me all over the place, you know that I don't bet. I didn't lose a dime on BB. I have never bet on a horse race and I never will. I don't gamble. I love the sport for what it is, not what I can win. Furthermore, I was stating my opinion that Kent has a huge responsiblity in the outcome of this race. If either of you knew as much as you like to think you do about these animals you can certainly understand the elementary logic behind what you witnessed with Kent pulling BB up, almost as if asking him to stop and then asking him to get back into the race by running wide. If you are unaware of how much energy that takes and if you understand the definition of "momentum" than clearly you cannot find an argument there. I for one have never said BB was better or even compared to the other TC winners in any of my posts. In fact I have been quick to point out that he needed to win this race to even be mentioned in the same breath.

Flyin home: I have sparred with Draynay on these blogs. In fact, we disagreed on some issues of past performers however Draynay was never abusive to me. I find confidence like Dutrows and Draynays fun and engaging. I was just as sold on BB as Draynay and I still am. So Im not sure I understand your question as to where I stand. Isn't it o.k to have blogs that are in disagreement and still end up with a friendly poster on the other end of the line??? It sure should be. So, Fan of class. What is your "first hand" experience with racing?? Is it because you bet on races that makes you feel you have superior knowledge over someone who doesn't bet???