Was It The Shoe?

re: Was It The Shoe?

Householder — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:48:54 GMT

Sunday Silence raced the last 2 legs of the Triple Crown with a brused hoof. He missed 3-4 days of training prior to the Preakness (training in a bar shoe that was left on, just clipped at the back) and still put away a horse that many said could not be beat. Good horses find a way to overcome adversity (much like Alysheba's stretch run against Bet Twice). This is what turns good into greatness. As another stated...and I agree 100%, great horses don't bring the track with them. They win at every track under every condition.

re: Was It The Shoe?

Julie L. — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:38:00 GMT

Having ridden horses since my dad put me up on one at the age of two and competed in barrelracing at rodeos I think that I can say that I have some experience in horses along with the fact that we bred our own horses so in regards to the shoe which is being rehashed again in the Blood Horse well if the jockey says that he did not feel Big Brown running differently because of the shoe then the shoe was not the issue. I have been on horses that have thrown shoes, bent shoes and had stones lodged in their shoes and believe me if it is bothering them they will express it by not wanting to put any pressure on that foot. Big Brown continued to run and as stated by others appeared angry when he was pulled up and walked just fine, no limp, no bucking, no outward suggestion of pain or discomfort. So, lets put this issue to bed now. And as for Draynay and the comments he has made to others he did address me once and without knowing of my experience with horses told me I had no idea what I was talking about, that I lacked experience. When comments are directed at oneself we tend to remember them.

re: Was It The Shoe?

MonicaV — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 06:49:19 GMT

That is not proof. He ran 3 great races and threw in a clinker. He didn't win the Belmont. He did not win the triple crown. If it was the shoe then that's horse racing. You'll have to wait for his next 2 races.

re: Was It The Shoe?

Atthebarn2 — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 02:55:42 GMT

You know, it strikes me funny that the only place they’re still talking about this is here. The questionable logic that because the colt won races, then lost with a loose shoe has one fatal flaw: Horses lose races all the time, I’m sure Cigar didn’t plan on losing that one in his record setting run. It’s called racing luck and it happened to 11 others before Big Brown.. We just keep rehashing all of this because one person repeats his various excuses over and over,. There were rumors and opinions on the backside, people with expertise and insight into their own profession. Mostly everyone has moved past that more so than they have moved past the arrogance of the trainer, who was the face of racing on that day and an ugly face it was (figuratively speaking) Even after Brown opens his invitation to the Haskell, runs in it (I have a theory on that) if he wins, well he won another race but he still didn’t win the Belmont and in fact didn’t even make a race of it, no matter what the reason. There won’t be an asterisk next to Da’Tara’s name saying Big Brown would have won this race and the Triple Crown if he hadn’t _________ (fill in the blanks).. The only colt with an excuse in the 12 near misses was Charismatic, because, unlike a loose shoe, a horse can’t run on a broken leg for very long. War Emblem went to his knees his excuse, but Rags did the same and won the race. Baffert admitted his colt had to get to the front and run unimpeded.

I know I would never believe the opinion of an admitted steroid user who even admits to injecting his buddy, especially now when everyone is telling kids in High School and college, it is a killer. I also know from my many years on this earth, that Draynay is the type of person who wants the last word right or wrong because it makes them feel powerful and victorious. So let him post it Jason, blog a new subject and let’s get on with our lives, those of us who have one anyway.

re: Was It The Shoe?

draynay — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:38:24 GMT

Slew.em.all you and I lol... have no problem but it seems I got bradgm's panties all in a bunch. Let's start with "rant and rave like a maniac"

Those are pretty big words bradgm would you like to cut and paste and show me where I "ranted and raved like a maniac"... If your going to accuse me on this board and call me out... go ahead and state your case show me my previous "ranting and raving like a maniac. Second... I will submit proof that is was the bent up half off shoe that screwed up Big Brown and his chance at the Triple Crown... I will submit 3 pieces of evidence for you....

1) The Florida Derby

2) The Kentucky Derby

3) The Preakness

I have more proof but that should do it. Notice in all those races his shoe on his back foot is fine.

Now that you and Monica have the proof I am sure we can put this to bed.

re: Was It The Shoe?

MonicaV — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:49:38 GMT

Bradgm,

No, I didn't take what you said wrong. I have really enjoyed this board and I'm glad you posted.

re: Was It The Shoe?

bradgm — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 03:30:03 GMT

Wanda, I've been reading your posts, you and Monica are awesome ladies, hope Monica didn't take what I said wrong. I saw the trainer is talking about the sales and the pick six at Belmont, got a little excited about the amount but Jason gently corrected him. The trainer cracks me up when he talks about the old guys, like the 'Druggist' (real old school) he came up with the likes of Lukas, Van Berg, those guys are in their 70's he's probably not far off, awesome they all sound pretty sharp and Lukas found the fountain of youth. Are you going for it 160 grand or somewhere around that. Einstein, a little quick on the comeback and on Turf, interesting. Sounds like you have some good ones on your Breeders Cup line up.

re: Was It The Shoe?

Wanda — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:53:13 GMT

Jason you called it. So what do you think of them wheeling Einstein back so quick? He's in my roadtothebreederscup stable and I'm a bit concerned it's to soon.

re: Was It The Shoe?

Slew.em.All — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:39:55 GMT

draynay,I suppose you're referring to me as one of the ones calling you names?..haha,relax,I do it in gest,not getting personal.But in fact you DO insult others by trying to belittle them and their thoughts."you know nothing..come back later and and tell me how smart you are",calling people "minions"is just some of the many examples of your rantings..to many it may seem mean or insulting,but that wont deter me!..so lets just keep this thing rolling til' the wheels fall off..you Abstracted ?(nevermind)..hoo-rah!

re: Was It The Shoe?

bradgm — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:35:07 GMT

Draynay. I am writing this as a reasonable man, read it in the same vein. You need to actually read what others write and realize what you write because unlike what you say- writing is proof positive and hard copy evidence. You want people to cut and paste about everyone you insulted? there isn't enough room on this board. You insulted Atthebarn, Wayne Lukas and a bunch of others who said it shouldn't have affected it, and others who stated historical evidence and recent evidence (The Mother Goose) that shows a great horse can win with a loose, bent or lack of a shoe. The fact that you have as many excuses as the owner is just strange, Iavarone lost millions in bonuses from R Clay when Brown didn't win the Crown, you didn't, he needs the excuses not you. You expounded on every issue that was out there as an expert and everyone else is misinformed, ignorant, crazy and there are no experts according to you. If you think you don't make it personal you are way off base I 'personally' hate it when people say that and their other words speak differently, yes you made it personal ask anyone on this board. I'm sure a lot of what you really said was edited out and probably a lot of the responses got edited and blocked but I've seen your kind before and they love making people mad. Just as you say the folks don't know for sure, neither do you, face it. I think you have done almost as much as Rick Dutrow to make people dislike a poor defenseless colt who doesn't deserve you as a supporter or Dutrow as a trainer. I know it's all about freedom of speech but you've turned these boards into a mockery of what Jason has attempted to accomplish and do you think it helps horse racing to rant and rave like a maniac. If you had been on a board I moderated you'd be history no matter how many hits it gave the blog, because people who don't have a limited agenda come back again and again in the long run. I dare you to follow the old trainer on this board or any of the others around for just one month and see what they do and how well they know the horses, they've seen about everything there is to see and you might do well to listen to some of what's being said by the owners and trainers I've learned a lot of what to look for and whereas they can't tell you for sure if their horse will win, there'd be no gambling because that's what gambling is, taking a chance.Most just have a feel for how the horse is doing. You also contradicted yourself because you bought into the guarantee by Dutrow that Jason quoted "Foregone conclusion" bb will win. Jason, fellow posters, forgive the long post but I only posted a couple of times so maybe I'm entitled.

re: Was It The Shoe?

Monica V — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:47:55 GMT

Draynay,

you simply can't know for sure either.

re: Was It The Shoe?

Monica V — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:46:40 GMT

bradgm,

I realize it's a handicapping board but I don't think any of the problems are related to handicapping. Actually, not too much handicapping has been dicussed here but on other portions of this board it is.

re: Was It The Shoe?

draynay — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:18:03 GMT

Monica... what trainer did I say didn't know anything. The funny part about all of this is you and others put words in my mouth I never said.

And by the way... I never call people names or attempt to insult them. I may think your statements are a little crazy or nuts but I do not make it personal. People on these blogs say things and believe things that are not true but does that make them a bad person...no just misinformed.

This post is about Big Brown getting his shoe stepped on and bent. Now people can post their opinion and I can think the opinion is good or bad. When people pretend to know for fact it had no effect I laugh because only the horse knows for sure and he ain't talking but my evidence is every other race he has run in without getting his shoe stepped on and bent...look at all of them and tell me how he did. That is all the proof I need. Anyone who says it had no effect is talking silly because he simply can't know for sure.

re: Was It The Shoe?

bradgm — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:18:49 GMT

I'll start again, I was posting and my kid hit the key board, I won't touch him with the whip, Mom would give me a permanent suspension and missing body parts (JUST KIDDING FOLKS)

SLEW,

Usually these boards just degenerate and die or are killed by the moderator. There are still some good points being made here by a bunch of people and one is still flapping their gums but Draynay did that from the beginning. And by the way Draynay, you must suck as a handicapper because you keep asking people to pick winners for you especially when they make a valid point that doesn't match yours. Nobody has touted you yet. Nobody's going to because they don't want you to win a dime,they hope you get your computer repossessed so you can't post anymore. I've been a board moderator before and frankly guys like you would have been gone long ago because all it turns into is a slop slinging match and people with a brain leaving the board. I'd give you a +100mil on the drivel factor and -150 mil on the Rep factor.Monica, Yes this is a handicapping board

"Dedicated to handicappers with an interest in chatting about Thoroughbred racing, especially those horses on the Triple Crown trail." I really think Draynay lost a bundle on BB and is mad (changed the word), even the old trainer guy mentioned it. Most of us lost on that unless we had a backup of Zito the mini giant killer thank you sir. But it is also good for information. If you gamble, great I hope you win. If you don't great, just keep that passion you and all the good guys have on here.

re: Was It The Shoe?

Slew.em.All — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:17:37 GMT

Thx,bradgm: point well taken,as far as sticking to the Primary subject at 1st,then from there we can all veer-off slightly,but at the end it should all be relevant.I've given Jason his fair share of props myself(j/k),for his blogs on this spectacular sport..I agree in that others shouldn't stop posting their views on here,especially if their turned-off or even worse,intimidated by Down-trodden draynay,aka..Ignorant Iguana,aka..the Winstrol Woebegone(lol)..hoo-rah!

re: Was It The Shoe?

Monica V — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:09:10 GMT

Has all the bickering been about handicapping? That was not my take on it. I'm having company this weekend so I may not have the time but I will try, depends on what goes on.

re: Was It The Shoe?

Monica V — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:59:58 GMT

bradgm,

I don't know that Draynay hates anyone as he just hates that they don't agree with him. He is the nastiest, most disagreeable person I've seen here for sure. Maybe he's that way because he feels powerful calling names and being so insulting. It would seem that no one is allowed to think differently than he is. He tells a trainer who has been training for many years that he doesn't know anything! What are Draynay's qualifications to say things like that? I'm no expert on horses or horse racing but I have been following it for many years and do have opinions. He acts as though he knows more than anybody. I believe he's the kind of person who is pushed around alot in his life and can vent his frustration and anger on a blog like this because no one knows who he is. He latches on to things and is like a bulldog with a bone. At times it is amusing but sometimes it's annoying. I just don't get anyone who has to abuse everyone like that when he is the one who knows nothing.

re: Was It The Shoe?

Jason Shandler — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:44:30 GMT

That's a good way to end this fued. Let's just have a handicapping contest and that will be the end of the bickering. Deal?

re: Was It The Shoe?

draynay — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:35:55 GMT

Me a hater ? Lol... far from it bradgm. I just go nuts when people say stuff and have nothing to back it up. For example.. the first 95% of your post was really justboring drivel. Then at the very end you said something exciting...Handicappers !!! Now if you would like to show everyone how smart you are tell me who is going to win the 7th race at Belmont tomorrow and why. Monica join in if you like... Slew...spit out your gum and you give it a try too...I don't want you getting confused trying 2 things at once. Everyone post your winner for the 7th at Belmont and then tell us why....

re: Was It The Shoe?

bradgm — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:52:54 GMT

Slew, I did read a blog where you gave props to the old guy trainer Atthebarn and told Dray to shut up so I think I see it now. You, Atthebarn, Mike Relva just to name a few have a really good take on all of this.

re: Was It The Shoe?

bradgm — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:34:11 GMT

I've been reading this for a while, chuckling mostly. Slew, who are you addressing you comment to? If it's some of the folks talking about other horses and such,I read it as all pointing back to the subject at hand. All of the blogs have been interwoven for a while now. If people only stuck to one specific point there'd be 10 posts and that's what makes Jason's blogs so good, the interest he generates.You used analogies in your posts as well and good ones they were. if you're talking to Draynay, right on. Not that I like to jump on a guy when he's down but I think everyone has his point of view etched into their minds. I'm really surprised to find he's still on this board but sadly a lot of the people with good things to say have dropped off. Karen, DocFarmer and so on. They may not have said what people wanted to hear but it was a different view. I really have never seen a guy like him on any boards outside of the hard core stuff where anything goes, name calling etc. Bet Jason has to edit like crazy and if Draynay would realize that he'd realize that some of the posts that are on here have also been edited and might leave out full sentences. Just from observation I think Draynay hates Monica because she likes Atthebarn who Draynay hates because he's a real horseman. Then draynay just hates all the rest because he's a hater period. I hope Jason and all the rest of the handicappers are out there winning the big bucks this weekend.

re: Was It The Shoe?

Slew.em.All — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:02:09 GMT

People,can we Please stick to the topics at hand?...thx.

re: Was It The Shoe?

draynay — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:54:46 GMT

Householder... did you ever play High School or College Sports ? Have you ever had dozens of reporters sticking microphones in your face asking you question after question?

Two minutes can define a mans career in the sport of Kings. When you reach the top after crawling for years to get there excuse the man if he feels really good about his chances and expresses the way HE chooses to express it. Dutrow is not a bad man he is flawed just like all the rest of us except his are on public display. Its easy to see the bad in everyone but its more charitable to look for the good. Householder next time you want to throw a stone why not just stick it in your pocket and move along. I am sure Dutrow has had his fill of stones in his yard this year...

re: Was It The Shoe?

Atthebarn2 — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:58:49 GMT

Monica, Wanda amd the rest of you who like the old timers. Did you read the blog by Steve Haskins? Good memories about some good old time horses. Didn't see you on the posts, only one negative guy over there beating up us older folks but the rest enjoyed it. I may not post again my better half may rule me off, thinks I'm a silly old fool for doing this, but for the most part it's been fun for an old fool.

re: Was It The Shoe?

draynay — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:50:53 GMT

Wanda.... Curlin reminds us of how owners are ruining the sport because he sticks out amongst older horses because there is no Street Sense or Hard Spun etc... Remember the reason Curlin runs is because the owner is in his 80's and his future is now AND he is already very rich. What does another 100 million do when you already have that and your 80+ ??? The future is now !!! Wouldn't you like to see Hard Spun and Curlin go at it ?