Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Mary in VT — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:05:23 GMT

SteveStan ~

I've said this repeatedly, but I will say it again because you keep getting it wrong, and it's important to me.

Here it is. Ok? Pay attention. I have never once - not once - bashed Zenyatta. Quite the opposite if you're honest about it. Point to just one instance where I bashed Zenyatta, or stop saying it. Your saying it doesn't make it true.

It was always her inexplicable campaign that bothered me. Zen didn't sit down with the condition book to plot her course. Some people did it for her. The same ones who acted robbed because she didn't get HOY.

Zen did everything she was asked to do superbly. She just wasn't asked to do enough.

Of course, they can say that they accomplished a lot of things. No question. Perfect 14 for 14 is pretty nice. Most dinero is pretty nice, too. The ***Classic is a lovely feather surface issues notwithstanding. But if they really wanted HOY, they simply didn't do enough in a year when many people think we saw the most electrifying season from a 3 YO filly in our lifetimes.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Footlick — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:43:10 GMT

Mary in VT- hopefully her ankles aren't that bad. She didn't run on Bute in her dirt start. And yes, they will have to be careful about who they breed her to.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

SteveStan — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:34:45 GMT

No Mary I don't care about HOY. I care about HORSE RACING. The continuation of the game and the people who make the game good, do the right things and try to keep it somewhat relevant.

Furthermore I don't discount ANYTHING Rachel did. I'm saying that people like you and others who want to trash one, should see both sides. The people in the game speaking positively of Rachel were also speaking the same way about Zenyatta. THAT is helpful. The negativity that you display and others like you to EITHER horse is what I'm sick of reading or hearing. As far as TVG/HRTV? They were biased towards Zenyatta. Do I watch them, uh, not really I do my watching first hand. Do I read and post on here? Once in a while and not when there's anything going on for me. Which it is so.

What I do agree with Jason on, is the lack of mention of Hal. What I don't agree with and what a lot of us don't agree with, is/was the politics of it all and how some trainers, horses, owners, breeders and jockeys in past/present have gotten an award based on a popularity contest or strictly on money won regardless of their personal behavior.

IF you cared about racing, you wouldn't be blathering on about the negative aspects of one horse to boost another. Argue with yourself, or better yet put your money where your mouth is (I've heard that a lot on here).

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Mary in VT — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:24:25 GMT

Footlick ~

You may very well be right that Zenyatta's bute could be for her ankles. I heard the trainer of her dam speak about that mare on an HRTV call in interview. He said she had "ankles like grapefruit" which does sound painful. No doubt they will try to down size the lovely Zenyatta just a bit when they breed her.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Mary in VT — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:16:09 GMT

SteveStan ~

Just though I would point out that although you say that you don't care about HOY, you have posted umpteen times to a blog called "Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year."

Apparently, you blame Rachel for who showed up in the starting gate with her. Perhaps you weren't watching HRTV or TVG during her campaign because trainer after trainer said they didn't want any part of Rachel Alexandra. She ran in premier events that usually draw top horses. I don't know what kind of twisted logic holds it against her that she scared off a lot of horses.

As for Rachel running in restricted company, are you aware that she was only three years old? Hello? How many 3 YO fillies do you see taking on the boys, let alone the Classic winners? And winning? Every time? That does not happen very often, does it? Try never. Even if the Preakness and the Haskell are restricted to 3 YO, she still stepped up out of her division against boys. And then she stepped up another notch to take on older horses. And won that too, by the way. That was the first time a 3 YO filly ever put together three G1 route victories against males. Ever.

You want a positive note? Since you discount everything I say, I'll give you the words of others. Enjoy.

Stuart Janney III being interviewed on the merits of Rachel Alexandra being so often compared to his magnificent Ruffian:

What an extraordinary presence she (Ruffian) had out on the racetrack, just the way people talk about Rachel Alexandra's having an awareness of how special she is, and responding to the crowds. Ruffian did very much the same thing.

(Of Ruffian) When the gates would open you would see this incredible athletic display. It was like watching an olympic sprinter run against a pack of school kids. It was just extraordinary. In all her races (against fillies) as she would come into the stretch she would just suddenly move away from the other horses. That's always a pretty special thing, and she just did it time and time again.

There have been times in the past when somebody's horse just won a big race and they would say hey this horse ran just like Ruffian, and I kind of laugh a little bit. But in this case, I think that Rachel Alexandra is a truly great filly, and she is just so terrific for the sport, and it is a good thing to be talking about the comparison. I would feel differently if I didn't think Rachel Alexandra deserved to be compared in that company.

Her campaign was fantastic! We have never seen a 3 yr. old filly with a campaign like hers, not only beating the boys, but going on to beat older boys. - JoAnn Jones.

As brilliant as she is, as fast as she is, as talented as she is, the grit and determination she displayed here today takes her up even another level. - Lafit Pinkay Jr. on the Woodward.

If she is not tired after this victory today she is not from this planet. She is incredible. She is invincible. - Gary Stevens on the Woodward.

I think she’s the best I’ve ever seen. I don’t compare her to anyone. I’m not afraid to say she’s better than Ruffian, because she is. They sent two speed horses after her and made her go in :22 4/5, then they came after her one at a time and she put them all away. Those were tough older horses and they tried everything they could to get her beat and they couldn’t do it. - 96-year-old racing legend John Nerud.

You don’t see many horses livin’ that could have won that race. - noted veterinarian Dr. Mark Cheney

She had everything thrown at her and she overcame it all. I've never seen anything like it. You had that feeling of a horse trying for the Triple Crown. It’s the stuff of legends. - Graham Motion, trainer of third place finisher Bullsbay.

It was like a 23 yr. old girl defeating 30 yr. old men. - Steve Haskin

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

carolyn — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 19:42:32 GMT

You're right, footlick, but I wouldnt care to see the three race one another, I am just so thrilled at what each one of the three has given to us in the past couple of years, I am so happy to have seen these stars perform on the tracks. I love going back and watching Sea The Stars in his races, I tell ya, he is a beauty to be behold on the tracks. You all know how I feel about Zenyatta!! We won't even go there. I am going to go back and feel myself in with some of Zarkava's races, I know if she is in the same league as the other two, then she is some great horse too. I have heard alot about her. Well, have a good day, footlick, I am going over to youtube.com for a while.....

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Footlick — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:25:17 GMT

Well, you already know how I feel about Zarkava. And her running style and ease of wins were very similar to Zenyatta's. It would be quite a race between the three, but one we will never see.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Footlick — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:22:35 GMT

Carolyn- It's because horses aren't stabled at the tracks. They are at the Training facilities, and they do go out and graze, but they are too valuable just to be let out and romp usually. They are closely watched. They are vanned to the track for the race. It's just different here. I wouldn't say the European horse is calmer or less mean. Those are traits that are probably universal and dependent upon the bloodlines. Europeans like some spirit in their horses as far as I've seen.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

carolyn — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:13:39 GMT

I agree Footlick, I know her feet take a pounding, I too, would like to see her run on turf. She is so big and beautiful, and she has such a graceful running style, yet, she can run down a cheetah if she had to, I would like to see them send her to Europe, I think that part of the world is more beautiful. Footlick, You know, I heard that over in Europe that they don't make their horses stay in a barn all day, they go out in the pastures, Now, that makes a more calmer and less aggressive horse I think? I was so thrilled that they compared Zenyatta to Sea The Stars, and Zarkava, my goodness, now that says alot about her, to be compared too, and in the same category and league as STS, and Zarkava?? It can't get any better than that.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Footlick — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:40:12 GMT

SteveStan- I've given up along time ago. Just let them blither on and on and on.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

SteveStan — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:05:52 GMT

Mary, you just don't get it.

I don't care about HOY. I don't care about any other 'award' unless it's for leading trainer of a meet. The Eclipse awards don't do diddly in promoting racing, witness the lack of coverage or mention of the winners ANYWHERE.

There is a small minority who even give a rats a** about the Eclipse awards. They have become uber political. Only fans who have an agenda to press their point keep dragging others through the mud. By the way did you see how MANY didn't even RETURN their ballots??

Horse racing doesn't need FANS who don't know what the hello they're talking about, telling people who DO, how to run their horses.

If you don't understand that the connections of Zenyatta were totally focused on the Breeders Cup, the past two years,then I do not know how to make you understand and frankly I'm tired of trying.

If you don't understand that, as a member of the CHRB, Jerry feels an obligation to help save Cal racing by running a star there? Then I don't know what else to say. If you don't understand that Jerry and Ann have run various horses all over the country on different surfaces, when it suited the goal in mind (Derby- Giacamo, Tiago)? Then I don't know what to say.

If you don't get that regardless of WHERE the mare won the Classic it's a big deal then I don't know what to say.

YOU think one thing about her schedule, what does it matter?

Are you also going to agree with those who say Rachel ran in restricted company all but once and the rest of her races were calculated to be against weaker competition at distances that most suited her? THAT was the course planned by HER connections.

Give it a rest and move on to something positive, if that is at all possible.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Footlick — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:33:30 GMT

Sorry- these were meant for Lasix and Bute, not banned substances. Don't want to get jumped on here!!!

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

LAZMANNICK — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:28:58 GMT

Mary in VT

If someone called me boring I wouldn't take it as a personal insult, I would take it for what it is.......BORING........Once again..ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Footlick — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:03:32 GMT

Carolyn- I've been reding all the posts in this blog, amazed at the rudeness, and I ran across your question about meds that I didn't see before. I don't know if anyone answered you. Meds used to not be allowed in this country, so there were many other remedies that were used instead of Lasix and Bute for raceday. They were gradually introduced as allowable raceday meds until there was only one hold-out stte. That was New York, who still believed in no raceday meds. Finally, under considerable pressure, they passed raceday med allowances. There are pros and cons, I guess about raceday meds. In the rest of the world, there are no raceday meds allowed. In Europe, any foreign substance found in a horses blood analysis is grounds for disqualification. The drug violations for trainers in this country have to do with banned substances, not Lasix and Bute. I do believe though that there are allowable levels of these. But a trainer or vet would have to tell you for sure about that. There are more knowledgeable on this blog for that than I. As far as Zenyatta and Bute, she's a huge horse and it would be foolish to think that her ankles don't have some discomfort from the pounding they take. That is another reason I would like to see her on the turf either here or in Europe. Turf is a kinder surface, and the courses in Europe especially are huge and lush.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Mary in VT — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:54:36 GMT

LAZMANNICK -

Even though it will be known as the asterisk *Classic because it was run on ProRide, yes, Z has a Classic win; one of the biggest brightest jewels she could put in her crown. Wonderful for her. Bravo.

Didn't help her win HOY though, did it? Whyyyyyyy? Because she had zero besides paid work outs to put with it thanks to her campaign. That's my point.

When you and others resort to personal insults you fold your cards and admit that you can't win because you're out of ammunition due to the simple fact that logic is not on your side.

Why is it so hard to be polite? Think about it. It is actually easier on everybody, including you, to be pleasant. (rays of light shining in) (cue the music)

SteveStan -

Racing doesn't need fans pissing and moaning because the horse they were pulling for lost HOY due to some nefarious east coast bias or mysterious Jedi mind tricks which is what you hear from the majority of disappointed Z fans. How is that going to attract a healthy fan base that can support racing? Speaking of what racing needs? Hmmm?

HOY should be obvious. Rachel did more, re-wrote more history, and skewered the hearts of fans with her brilliance in every race instead of with contrived Hollywood sound bytes and infomercials designed as much to save California racing as skew the vote.

You can't really believe that you saw the best Z had to give throughout 2009. Why the heck not? What were they saving it for?

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

SteveStan — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:38:39 GMT

You'd be shocked at how close to rocket science this actually is. LOL

Really though, plotting a horses future, feed, vet, workouts, preps even shoeing all take skill and not just the guy off the street can get all the nuances. More people who thought they could come in and just do it? Not very successful and not much longevity even if they are able to pass the trainers test.

I always laugh when I read the comment by Dr Jay, owner of Summer Bird, when he said he once had the worst trainer ever and had to fire him. He was speaking of himself.

Now just because a person is educated doesn't mean they'll be a good trainer and an owner who doesn't listen to his advisors is foolish.

As far as what path either horse will follow? History says Zenyatta will be on the path to the BC. That's why they brought her back. That and the fact that she is basically the only bright spot on the horizon of Cal racing. If Cal racing goes down, many more around the country will follow suit.

Anyone who truly loves this game is rooting for any and all horses and tracks to be successful. Trying to figure out ways to help them survive and flourish.

The people putting down horses, trainers, owners etc without any true insight are not the kind of fans this game needs. Especially right now when we're on the edge of no return.

Nay, as far as her path? Tell me a horse retired to the breeding shed is a better path? What a joke you are. Maybe you should follow Boo Hooing Brett (your fave) to retirement.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Pam S. — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:26:05 GMT

Mary in VT, I have come to the conclusion that you are Draynay with two things: a ghostwriter and a few more axes to grind!!

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

LAZMANNICK — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:25:55 GMT

Mary In VT

At least Zen had one more classic win than Rachel has. And guess what, she ran in one more classic race than Rachel did too.

Come to think of it Mary......YOU ARE EXTREMELY BORING...ZZZZZZZZZ

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

draynay — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:37:06 GMT

mike up until last year I thought talent wins on any surface. but after seeing dirt horses go 0 for 43 at the breeders cup the last two years and no plastic trained 3 year old come close to winning the derby it is obvious plastic and recycled rubber is a specialty surface only few can run on. you all brag that dirt is zenyatta's preferred surface yet she has never run at belmont, churchill or saratoga. believe me when I tell you mr moss will not take on quality road or any other g1 males until november. he will take the mighty zenyatta on a very carefull campaign that would be a disgrace for any prior classic winner.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

carolyn — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 04:26:31 GMT

Laz, you are just to funny!! As always you,

Tell'em like it is, cause ain't nothin wrong with the truth!

"southern slang"

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

carolyn — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:56:17 GMT

Actually Dray, Zenyatta took on the "best males" that Rachel took on, or have you forgot about the "Classic"

Also, I would expect that it's a few "better males" for both girls to take on this year!!

I wonder which of the two is going to tackle the toughest males first!!!!

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Mary in VT — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:49:11 GMT

Z fans gloat over her Classic win like it was comparable to any other Classic win. It isn't.

No question, it was a visually stunning race. Great. Good for Zenyatta. But when the history books come out they will qualify both of her BC victories to date as having been run on a surface that handicapped true dirt horses just as if they carried extra weight that grass horses and synthetic track specialists did not carry. They will back that up with the now famous DRF stats, and the fact that after 2 yrs on ProRide the BC committee is looking to run as far away from ProRide as it can get. Permanently.

The moral of the story is that both of these great ladies still have something to prove.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Mary in Vt — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:26:48 GMT

SteveStan -

Thank you for the time you took to explain your perspective.

You are quite correct that I am not a racing insider. Not by a long shot. Not one of my goals. I am a fan. Just a lowly lowly fan explaining how certain things surrounding the race for HOY smell to me. Yes, this is all speculation on my part. All of it. Never said it wasn't.

However, I don't believe for a second that this is rocket science either. Case in point: so many of the actual voters said that Rachel did more, which is exactly what I have said for months, along with asking and speculating about why.

Nor am I impressed with the number of Z fans that squawk about some nefarious east coast bias determining HOY when it is perfectly obvious that one campaign outweighed the other.

You made one teensy weensy mistake categorizing me - you can't find here, there, or anywhere a whiff of my discrediting Zenyatta. It was always her inexplicable campaign that irked me.

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

LAZMANNICK — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 02:27:28 GMT

Draynay

I actually think that you are jealous.......Zenyatta should come to Belmont and Churchill and take on the best males........correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what Racehl did?????

Why cant' Zenyatta just to to Saratoga and Monmouth and start off her HOY campaign by taking on some G-2 males?

re: Final Thoughts on Horse of the Year

Mike Relva — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 01:39:39 GMT

Carloyn

I agree with you,if Zenyatta remains healthy we will see something special this yr.