All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

racer99 — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 02:54:38 GMT

This is for everyone. Competition is at ahigh level in our Sport[business];even when we race 5000.00 claimers.The game is not on a level field solely because! Are the 80 or so trainers that train 95% of all of the good horses ,the only ones that can train? Mine That Bird,Summer Bird to name 2 horses.What about all of the 500,000.00 plus horses ,The Green Monkey to name one.Also,how can these guys give any individual care to all of those horses. The plan is just one of the major problems.Take alook the racing fields at all of the tracks. How fiels have 2,3,or 4 trainers with 2 horses in each race.I could touch base on any number of issues;from track mgt.,commissions,stewards.......Drugs? All of the horses in training and tracks can NOT fill full fields nor cards.Please .What is wrong? Please everyone must the right answers hi dden somewhere,but are afraid of all of the facts.Most of the BS almost always starts at the TOP.Only my opinion,but when big money is involved it seem somehow the Rules change for certain individuals.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

Eli — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 23:15:32 GMT

the thing that stuck with me most from the interview was that the great doctor had worked in the past with Frankel, Mandella, and Ron Mac....coincidentally over the last 2 years those three trainers are struggling mightily to win a race...Frankel and Mandella have been reduced to 10% winning trainers, and Ron Mac, its more like 5%

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

Householder — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 02:13:39 GMT

Thank goodness for the BC Blog. Lots to talk about like Zenyatta, synthetic racing surfaces, and favorites that get beat.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

Racefan66 — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 00:45:37 GMT

Former Fan: I agree that the goal should be that fit horses should be able to train and compete clean. But given the strenuous nature of the sport and training, I think that there are appropriate applications for some medications during training. To me, a horse using Lasix/clenbuterol is along the lines of a kid with asthma using an inhaler while training to allow them to train regularly. I'm oversimplifying things with that example, but it's not SO far off so in my opinion it's hard to say that there isn't an appropriate application for lasix or clenbuterol during training/racing. I also think that some anti-inflammitories have appropriate applications during training too (just like human athletes get to have their Motrin for training aches), but with a set withdrawl period before race day. If you need theraputic levels of anti-inflammitories in your system on race day, you're not fit to race.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

Karen2 — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 23:29:59 GMT

timeforachange: This is a blog about horse racing, not a place to spew out your political issues. I agree with your display name though. It is time for a change. Its time to look at the real issues poisoning the industry we love. They may not be as big as the worlds problems but they are big never the less for some of us.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

kkatsan — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:02:09 GMT

I'm with Jordan, but I'm stumped on the Princess Rooney, see you at the BC blog, and by the way that was sarcasm in my post to Draynay. I've been reading for months.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

Jason Shandler — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:48:33 GMT

JordanA: Yes, the Breeders' Cup Chat blog is now up and running - thanks for the plug. Triple Crown Talk will return in January. For now, let's move the discussion over to the BC Chat and yes, test our handicapping skills against one another.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

FormerFan — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:44:58 GMT

They have been breeding for speed for well over 50 years. I keep saying it, Go get a book called "The First 100 years of the Kentucky Derby" by Author Peter Chew. This breeding for pure speed has been around much longer than you think and when you read this book, by a very credible author, you will be surprised, as I was.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

JordanA — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:40:40 GMT

Draynay, The old time trainers used to RUN their horses once a week sometimes with even less rest on Wednesday then again on Saturday. Dutrow has been known to run on 2 days rest. Public uproar would be unbelievable if trainers still trained the way they used to even if the horses could still do it and if they weren't still doing a good job they would be out of business, doing whatever you or I do. Part of the reason for not working more than once a week, which is wrong because gallops, jogs and untimed works (usually done while it's still dark) all fall under unpublished works. If you're at the track you can watch them if not you don't even know they did them. But anyway the reason for not having two published/fast works per week is just what your argument says, they are bred for speed and not so much stamina and durability. What would you do have the horse train themselves or maybe the fans train? I think some of your epic battles on here with certain people has colored your thinking, we're not so obtuse that we don't know who you're taking your shot at. Everyone should come over to the Breeders Cup Blog and join in, that way we can see who knows more about the handicapping side of the game. I'm working on mine, the Smile Sprint, hmmm!

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

timeforchange — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:38:09 GMT

Congress has far more important things to deal with than horse racing. Let's worry about the war, the economy, the illegals from the south, the corporate tax breaks, and oh yeah how bout we finally go get bin-laden (got a bit side tracked there GW with the lies and iraq war didn't we?). The racing industry is dominated by the filthy rich just like the policies of this administration. No Bush-McCain Administration is going to go after their rich counterparts. Don't hold your breath on reform unless we get some real change.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

draynot — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:22:21 GMT

Draynay, Training has changed. Look at how many new drugs they have to inject into the horses as compared to yesteryear. Big Brown is a perfect example of that. Without the juice he would be just another nag like he showed in the Belmont. Wait a sec, he WAS without the juice there. The proof is in the juice (or not).

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

katsan — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:45:27 GMT

Maybe the breed needs to change back, like a lot are saying, breed for stamina and durability again although one equine geneticist says there hasn't been enough time to actually tell if the breed has changed that much. Mr.Draynay, how often do you work your horses? Do you gallop them and then breeze them and how often do you breeze tham from the gate. Are you training yours agressively or do you give them frequent layoffs? What are the majority of horses in your barn? Are they sprinters or distance runners and do you have a lot of 3 year olds or are they older horses? Are you finding that a lot of them lose weight when worked especially hard or have you got a really good supplement that helps keep them in the feed bucket. I know we used to cook their feed with oats and a handmade mixture and they used to do really well on that.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

draynay — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:50:20 GMT

Maybe....just maybe part of the problem is trainers. Many of them seem to train horses the way it was done 30 to 50 years ago. Horses have changed ... they are bred for speed and you train speed differently. Can you imagine a sprinter training the same way for the Olympics as a miler would? Where is it written you can only work a horse once a week? The breed has changed maybe training needs to change with it.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

FormerFan — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:47:08 GMT

Tigger, I know what you mean about the higher echelon race horses that train sporadically and run once every three months. Ever heard of Ghostzapper.? there is your example of a horse that trained sporadically and ran once every 3 months, probably more like every 4 or 5 months. Put it this way, Ghostzapper raced for 4 years, made 11 lifetimes starts which comes out to 2.75 starts per year. And they gave this mule a Horse of the Year award. Pathetic. He wins a race at Lone Star Park, then runs in some $300,000 one mile event in New York as his final start instead of going to Dubai to run for $6,000,000 in the World Cup because his connections were afraid he would lose. His last race he runs a mile in like one minute and thirty three seconds and change. Big deal, it has been done many times before, so they give this horse an eclipse award I guess for not breaking down which is what would have happened had he followed Roses in May to the World Cup. I'm sorry if Ghostzapper is your favorite horse, I really am, but I continue to be flabbergasted that they gave this horse a horse of the year award, and remember, that is 4 years of racing equating to 2.75 starts per year. Come on!

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

FormerFan — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:35:01 GMT

I own horses, and compete in shows occasionally so I understand when they are training and competing injuries can happen and it is necessary to medicate them depending on their problem. However, I've never shown or ridden my horses when medicated. I allow them to heal then get them off the meds. The one question I have to ask is a simple one, Why does a healthy race horse need anything in their system to race.. For example, if a healthy horse needs lasix to run, then wouldn't that horse be considered unhealthy or unfit to race, and with that said, an unhealthy/unfit race horse does not need to be on the track, right? A healthy athlete, period, should be able to perform clean, with nothing in their system. IMO, Any other scenerio is cheating. Clean or unclean, there should not be any in-betwen.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

Tigger — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 03:34:53 GMT

I remember a time when horses were TRAINED to be aggressive and trained hard for their races. The training was taxing because they needed to be able to physically withstand the stress of a race. I see so many horses now, particularly the "upper echelon" as people like to call it, who gallop 1 1/2 miles and work sporadically and only race once every 3 months--whenever a "big" race comes up. The focus is all on running for the big purse money and not on keeping the horses fit and READY--REALLY READY for the stress of a race. Trainers give steroids to help the horses "recover" from serious training--when they should be training seriously and effectively so the horse has the stamina and muscle strength to recover on their own without the help of drugs. They baby these expensive horses due to the fear of injury and cross their fingers on the "big day" that everything will work out. An Olympic athlete doesn't coast on light training and then expect to compete at world class levels on the "big day"--they train hard and risk injury daily to be at their best conditioning on the "big day." That's how trainers used to train their horses--Secretariat didn't jog his way to a Preakness win and sure as hell didn't "slow gallop" his way to the Triple Crown--he trained hard and ran hard!

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

katsan — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 02:02:12 GMT

No sir Racefan. If you look at the posting of the article describing the hearing you will see that it was on Feb 27,2008 and the first hearing was back then It doesn't say why Congress called it but the congressman from my district said it was on the agenda, steroids are being looked at in any sport that involves gambling or big money. What you said about the picture they paint is very true and that is what several of us have been saying. I am involved in rodeo and racing, Ruidoso is very close to us. The trend here in New Mexico is to close tracks, move them 40-100 miles away simply to enlarge the casinos. That was already approved for the track in Albuquerque which has been there for 60+ years and now RD Hubbard wants to move Ruidoso Downs to Las Cruces. Ellis Park finally agreed to stay open and Hollywood for one more year. If PETA has there way the tracks will close and they've called for a boycott of new tracks. Where is the racing industry and race fan outcry about that?

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

Racefan66 — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 00:08:04 GMT

Given the title of the hearing, I just assumed that it was called because of the nonsense that PETA has been spouting. The scary part about the picture that PETA paints is how many people outside of the industry believe it.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

Karen2 — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:49:38 GMT

I went on vacation and came back to find everyone still fighting with Draynay and another Karen posting. Looks like most of the same arguments going back and forth. I truly enjoyed this interview. There has been so much speculation regarding steroid use and so many unanswered questions. My hope is that someday very soon steroid use will be banned in race horses. I particularly agree with the statement made in this interview regarding pushing a horse to train so hard he has to put on meds to eat. There is something wrong with that picture. The entire industry needs to revamp the way they do things. We need to go back to the simpler times.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

katsan — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 19:12:51 GMT

Filly, your comments may have been well meant but PETA didn't initiate the congressional activity. In my post I said I had spoken to my Congressman some time ago about this. Here is an excerpt from one of the papers that discussed it Washington Bureau "Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 Congress questions use of steroids in horse racing

By Halimah Abdullah | McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON — The practice of injecting racehorses with steroids to keep them on their feet during the weeks before high-stakes competitions met tough scrutiny at a congressional hearing Wednesday.

Critics say the animals are exploited through the harmful use of anabolic steroids to boost stamina and power and to mask fatigue......The National Thoroughbred Racing Association and other groups have proposed a ban on steroid use in the month before a race to give horses time to get the drugs out of their systems."

PETA does nothing altruistically, I suggest you try to obtain the HBO documentary on Ingrid Newkirk their co-founder. I sincerely believe horse racing is trying to work on something but when you have all different entities scattered to the four corners of the country it takes time. A National board is an excellent idea, now I fear that horse racing will be spending valuable time fending off the constant attacks of PETA, much like the PRCA does for rodeo, which is a ridiculous loss of funds for an economically struggling entity.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

Filly — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:48:31 GMT

From now on, I appreciate if you all would actually read what I have to say and understand it before you misconstrue my statements. I love horses and horse racing more than any of you know, and the ones that truly do are the ones that welcome the changes that so drastically need to occur because this sport is in jeopardy on many fronts. I am 100% for horse racing. I have never even been to PETA's website.

And polytrack is not the answer to all of the underlying problems in racing. Using polytrack is like treating the symptoms of a disease instead of curing the disease itself. Breakdowns will always happen, but there are a lot of rules that a national regulating body could implement in order to further reduce and prevent them.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

Filly — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:16:08 GMT

Thank you Jason for defending me. You completely understood what I was trying to say.

I do not support PETA in any way either, and in no way shape or form am I a member. And yes, I have been involved in racing for a long time and with horses for my entire life. Although I don't know the whole story behind Larry Jones, I do know that PETA was way off in blaming Saez for Eight Belle's death. However, just as you and I both stated, PETA's involvement speeded up the changes that needed to occur in this industry a long time ago, which was my point in the first place. We should thank the pressure they put on the industry in that way, but we shouldn't condone any more involvement from them because they do not know enough about horses and horse racing to be any more involved than they are now.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

Jason Shandler — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 16:59:45 GMT

Katsan and those of you who misinterpreted my comment regarding PETA. I thought I was clear: I do not support PETA in any way. They are bad for racing. I thought they were completely off base when they attacked Larry and Saez. They have no place in our sport. Understood?

What I do think is that changes in this industry are long overdue. We need a governing body, we need stricter rules on medicine, a ban on steroids and we need to address the problem of all the unwanted horses in the country. We cannot simply hope for those problems to go away.

When PETA made an outcry it forced Congress to stand up and take notice. That in turn will make our leaders act quicker with changes. In my opinion, these changes were not going to happen fast enough without a push from Congress. The industry has suffered major PR damage recently and we are losing a lot of fans. The people who testified at Congress and the Congressional leaders all agreed that changes are needed. Larry Jones in my interview said the same thing. He went as far as saying that "Even though PETA people were barking up the wrong tree, I would like to think this will be the catalyst that will bring about change." That is precisely what I'm saying. Please do not misconstrue my comments that I am some kind of animal rights activist. I am a racing fan, and always will be. Period. Some of you take offense when anyone has the audacity to admit that this industry needs some change.

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

katsan — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:59:49 GMT

Jason, there is an interesting comparison of Animal Welfare vs. Animal rights on the pro rodeo web site in a nutshell: "Animal Welfare-based on principles of humane care.

Animal Rights-organizations that support animal rights philosophies seek to end the use and ownership of animals. Animal rights organizations seek to abolish by law: the raising of fram animals for food, clothing rodeos etc." The prca has been forced to defending their sport at every turn. Living in a small state has one advantage and that is access to our politicians. My understanding is the subject of steroids in racing was on the docket long before PETA started harassing Mr. Jones. I wonder if he'd have done an interview with you knowing your support of people who support PETA?

re: All Things Medication: Q & A With Dr. Rick Arthur

Jason Shandler — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 14:47:06 GMT

At the risk of making some of you angry, let me defend Filly's comments. I happen to agree with her that PETA's involvement, while misguided and for their own benefit, may actually give the industry the push it needed to make a few changes. Let me be clear, I in no way support what PETA does and I think their leaders know little if nothing about the racing industry. I do, however, believe that when they became involved after the Eight Belles incident, it forced Congress to get involved, which in turn forced our industry leaders to realize that changes need to be made. Without this happening I dont think Congress would have gotten involved. In short, PETA was way off base, especially when accusing Larry Jones and Gabriel Saez of wrongdoing, but in a backwards way they did wake up the powers that be. Hopefully, long overdue changes regarding medication and steroids are not far away.