Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

robin from michigan — Sun, 26 Dec 2010 21:21:12 GMT

If I had to choose which mare should be in my broodmare band, there is no shadow of a doubt, that every one of these mares, Goldikova, Rachel Alexandra, Rags to Riches and Zenyatta, would be picked to be in my broodmare band. All four of them are winners, all four of them are hall of fame bound, and all four of them had won their share of races. Rachel Alexandra became the first filly to win the Preakness stakes since 1924, Rags to Riches became the first filly to win the Belmont Stakes since 1905, Goldikova became the first horse ever in Breeders Cup history to win three Breeders Cup races, by winning the Breeders Cup Mile in 2008, 2009, and 2010, and Zenyatta won 19 races in a row, and became the first filly or mare to win the Breeders Cup Classic in Breeders Cup history. So, my pick would be all four mares.

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Beeswing — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 03:48:02 GMT

Rags for broodmare hands down simply because of her family.

But, also for stamina. None of the above great mares has run a mile and half aginst G1 company. Her halfbrother's Jazil won the Belmont the year befor and of couse Man Of Iron won the Marathon last year. As for a mate, I too thought Giants Causeway was an excelent choice and I can't wait to see thier filly race. Zenyatta is going to be a hard one to mate for the above stated reasons. Sending her to a smaller horse will not guarantee a horse of optimal size. I think I'll leave that decision to her connections,

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

'Andrea Bouwkamp — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:37:51 GMT

For Breeding:

1)Rags To Riches

Family current form. She is by a sire that is proving now to be a good BM sire. The Giant's Causeway mating was marvelous. I wish they would keep mating her with him a couple times. Not crazy about Henrythenavigator with her.

2)Goldikova. Family is very strong too and her natural speed could make her easier to match with many stallions. Miesque was a great miler and broodmare too.

3) Rachel Alexandra. Family isn't as strong but Medaglia D'Oro is turning into a "filly" sire which is usually an indicator of a good broodmare sire.

4) Zenyatta. As much as I love her, she will be the hardest to mate because of her size. Street Cry is a good sire but his progeny isn't just "filly" inclined. IMO, sometimes "freak" mares just are duds at stud and with her size, I feel finding a proper physical match will be very hard to do.

I am not going to rank these gals by racing ability. I have seen how that goes on the internet. LOL.

This ranking is purely on what I think about breeding shed potential.

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Criminal Type — Sat, 19 Jun 2010 18:46:03 GMT

Rag's Navi colt should be named "Surrenderthebooty", the little pirate. haha

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

CURLINLOVER — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:45:56 GMT

ITapp! That sounds like a good cross as far as I can judge! I'm glad you appreciate me on this blog as I'm pretty new at this game; but I'm dedicated and loyal -but also try to be objective.

Now, the bad news! I'm a teacher about to go on vacation in an hour or so and with no home computer yet! :-(

However, I am planning on getting one for the sake of keeping up with horse racing over the summer and also email. Also, I can keep on blogging on good, decent blogs like this one. I have truly enjoyed your educated input and suggestions. If not before, I'll be back in the fall.

Meanwhile, I just made an appointment with Lane's End to love on "my" CURLIN" July 15! Eat your heart out! Yes, I'm a forever CURLINLOVER. But I also love other horses and try to be fair and educated.

Thanks for your wise input, ITapp! I truly appreciate it together with the well-written articles by Bloodhorse people. And I DO subscribe to Bloodhorse magazine to keep up.

Have a good summer!

Go CURLIN!!!!!!!!!! :-)

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Mike Relva — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:34:04 GMT

Zenyatta,without a doubt!

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Ian Tapp — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:18:00 GMT

Curlinlover,

Thanks! It's great having you on the blog, and I do admire your loyalty to Curlin.

If I could send any mare to Curlin, it would be BC Filly & Mare Turf winner Midday. Smart Strike has been exceptional with Danzig line mares; Curlin is a (Mr. P/Turn-to) over (Northern Dancer/Sir Gaylord) cross; Midday is the reverse of this with an extra Northern Dancer/Sir Gaylord via Dancing Brave. Plus, they're both exceptional 10-furlong horses. Check out the TrueNicks report.

Ian

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Criminal Type — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:04:34 GMT

Matt, I think Zen will be an excellent mother. However, I understand your concern. Zenyatta is a high energy mare and will probably end up running the broodmare band wherever she ends up in retirement. There are many instances of high quality race mares rejecting their maternal instincts. I believe the most well know would be Toussaud. They had to take her foals from her, but look at the quality she turned out. Not quite sure what the reason for this was, but I am assuming she was trying to hurt them. I hope they dont breed Rags to Curlin, what an insult to her after kicking his Azz.

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Matt — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 22:11:13 GMT

I would pick Rags to Riches and breed her to Curlin. I love Zenyatta but she likes to race too well and I wonder what kind of a brood mare she would be. I think of Cigar.

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Zen's Auntie — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:25:12 GMT

Zenyatta then Rags then Rachel and Not because she isnt an amazing Horse as well then 'Kova - lets face it these are the best Mares in racing ever. These mares have the edge the desire an ability but because of the Roborto inbreeding 4f and 4m I like Zenyatta and Giants Causeway of all the A++ nicks this seems like a swell fit for our Queen. although the Indian Charlie angle seems like a good one too. Longevity and soundness seem greatly over looked today with the press for "young guns" you see so many burnouts - our beloved Rachel included she seems to have lost that desire to win every time and I dont blame her. Imagine what she could be now if she hadnt switched trainers/owners after the oaks. on the other hand Zenyatta was given the perfect career and training to showcase what an amazing animal the mature Thoroughbred can be. I still Love Zenyattas Bloodlines not that you all care but I have an old Daughter of Kris S out of a Soverign Dancer Mare here at the ranch in retirement she lost her last foal and we probably wont rebreed her she raced for 4 years campaining up and down the east coast from FL to Woodbine winning 11 of 23 and prodcing several winners and a stakes winner too. Her legs look so good at 20 its unbelievable. Thats what I want in a broodmare. shes an A+ nick to Indian CHarlie too wish I had 70K.... LOL

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

CURLINLOVER — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:45:28 GMT

ITapp!

I'm really beginning to respect you for your insight and sense of humor as well!

I'll be looking for your input in future blogs as you seem a lot less sentimantal and a lot more informed than I!

But don't forget! I'm CURLINLOVER forever! A sentimental fool who had the chance of meeting and loving on CURLIN a few times. Who wouldn't be in love with him after meeting him in person? But I'll try to be objective and listen to those with more experience in horse racing and breeding than I - although I DO go into True Nicks to check! :-)

So, ITapp! Which mare do you recommend for "my" CURLIN?

This is fun! Thanks, ITapp!

Go CURLIN! :-)

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

TJLuvsTizs — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:10:34 GMT

Personally, you couldn't go wrong with any of the above horses! I would not be dumb enough to say that I wouldn't want one of these horses for a broodmare band, but I do have a preference for Goldikova.

Zenyatta is such a large horse, and it would be tough to find the right fit for her conformation. You couldn't go wrong with Rachel in any way. I would be reluctant to choose Rags in this group due to her injury, though her heart on the racetrack puts her in this conversation.

Goldikova's longevity, conformation, pedigree, and dominance is why I would choose her over the three others, but I wouldn't turn any of them down if they fell in my lap!

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Ian Tapp — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 16:19:11 GMT

Curlinlover,

Just kidding, I just knew you'd be siding with Curlin no matter what so I wanted to see you get creative!

Nothing against either horse, but I'd expect a Curlin-Zenyatta offspring to be slow. Sure, it would have loads of stamina, but that could all go to waste when the important races are 8, 9, and 10 furlongs. Then again, we don't know what either Curlin or Zenyatta are capable of producing yet; Curlin could very well get speedier runners than expected.

Personally, one stallion I'd consider for Zenyatta would be Indian Charlie, who has been excellent with Mr. Prospector line mares (TrueNicks A+, and the cross has produced G1 winners Indian Blessing, Fleet Indian, and Pampered Princess). Indian Charlie would infuse some speed, and he's capable of getting a distance horse with the right mare.

Ian

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Ian Tapp — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:52:25 GMT

Zenyatta HOY2010,

I think it's important to have plenty of stamina sources in the broodmare if you're trying to breed a classic horse, but I think the difference between 9f and 12f preference is not that quantifiable. Modern classic winners don't require dams who won at 12f to be competitive. Classy sprint mares, when bred to the right stallion, can get a classic horse.

With Zenyatta as a broodmare, stamina would be no concern, but speed would be. You could easily imagine her producing something that would run all day, but might not be quick enough to win classics at 10 or 12f. That's why using the right stallion is so important -- a stallion that infuses the necessary speed but doesn't negate her perceived staying ability.

Ian

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Zenyatta HOY2010 — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:44:30 GMT

ITapp,

I realize it's not the "modern" definition, but for me, stamina is at a minimum 1 1/4 miles, and I'd prefer longer. I don't call 1 1/8 stamina, even if they are trimming down distances more all the time for typical races.

About picking broodmares in general, interesting comment by John Nerud I ran into the other day. He said, "I can forgive a few things in the stud. I cannot forgive anything in the mare."

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

CURLINLOVER — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:30:12 GMT

OK, ITapp!

I know! I know! According to True Nicks, Zen and CURLIN are no match - a "C", I believe!

So, how about AP Indy? Or Pulpit?

What do you think?

Dynaformer - way to large, which would be a problem for the progeny!

Maybe Afleet Alex?

I'd like to hear your opinion after hearing mine! :-)

You're funny!

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Slew — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:31:09 GMT

Zenyatta...intelligence, speed, agility....and an absolute treasure to just look at all of the time. She's sublime.

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Ian Tapp — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:29:11 GMT

Zenyatta HOY2010,

I agree with you about Zenyatta, but you think Rachel has never demonstrated stamina? What about her five Grade 1 wins at 9 furlongs+ ? That's not exactly sprinting. Not many U.S. races are longer than that...

Ian

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Bellwether — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:01:56 GMT

ANY ONE OF THOSE FORE WOULD WORK...ty...

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Zenyatta HOY2010 — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 09:21:02 GMT

Zenyatta in a close call over Rags, Goldikova 3rd, Rachel 4th. Zenyatta has soundless, longevity, and stamina, 3 things I think the breed desperately needs more of these days. Also wonderful temperament. Rags has that great female family. I put Rachel last of them purely on racing record - she has never demonstrated stamina, a requirement in my book at least, and she has demonstrated a few times that it certainly might be an issue were her races longer.

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Aluminaut — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 06:37:10 GMT

Rags To Riches--because of her great female family line.

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

The Deacon — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 05:09:08 GMT

Rags To Riches because of her pedigree. Zenyatta is the better mare, one of the greatest but for a broodmare sire it's hands down Rags...........

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

goodwin — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 03:25:10 GMT

Rags - Curlin had only one horse look him in the eye and out gun him - the filly!

A.P.Indy already has quite a great reputation as a broodmare sire. Must be the Princequillo on both sides, and the little Buckpasser thrown in for good measure, that he passes on to his fillies.

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Sam — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 02:34:22 GMT

Rags has, hands down, the best female family of the bunch. "Best in the studbook" has been bandied about many times (not sure I completely agree, but *shrug).

I'd still take Rachel over Rags... and I'd breed her to Indian Charlie at least twice. B^)

You guys obviously haven't been paying much attention -- it was announced LONG ago that Zen's first date was with Sea The Stars.

Rachel has already been confirmed as going to Curlin first. I suspect Eskendereya will be on her dance card in the near future as well since Jackson is going to try and make him as a sire. He might even flip them and send her to Esken first and Curlin second/third (since Curlin drew a really nice book this year but, like with all stallions, is going to need help the second/third year).

As far as breeding Zen... Sea The Stars is good, but I'd rather see her sent to Orpen.

re: Poll Question: Zen, Rachel, Rags, or 'Kova?

Michelle — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 02:22:32 GMT

I love love love Rachel, but the female family that Rags to Riches, along with the half-siblings that she has, would make her my choice for my mythical broodmare band.

Americans don't know enough about Goldikova/she is not on the common racing fan's radar enough to make an accurate judgment here. Would love to see some more articles about her the way we see them about RA and Zenyatta!