Poll Question: Going the Distance

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

Nancy — Wed, 04 Aug 2010 05:31:22 GMT

The question is ambiguous! Are we racing a yearling, or are we waiting until it is 3 years old. If we are racing a yearling I would say 6 furlongs or less at such a young age. If we are talking a three yr. old who has been properly trained, excellent conformation and sound, then the classic distances would be desirable.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

dave york — Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:38:38 GMT

To Sceptre

Your point is well taken on the current available competition. The reason for more competion at 7 or 8 furlongs is that it is easier to breed and train a thoroughbred to compete at the 7 or 8 furlong distance. The reason it is easier is obvious, it is not as difficult as to find/buy/breed a horse that is competitive in a race at 7 or 8 furlongs as compared to 9 or 10 furlongs. This confirms your point on current competitors but also supports my assertion of the difficulty of the longer race being more of a challange to breed and win. {breeding a two turn thoroughbred with the class to get it done is much more difficult] Bigger purses at longer distances for all races [cheap claimers to graded stakes] would in my opinion improve the breed overall. The type of training, the age at which you bear down in training and the physical traits of a long distance thoroughbred are much different and require more patience. Pounding on two year olds early in their career is criminal. This sport loses many of our best athletes because of this obsession with quick two year olds. I enjoy the longer races much more than the shorter races and would prefer to win the two turn events. The class of a thoroughbred is more evident when they turn for home in a two turn event. Racing needs superstars. I hope Zenyatta and Rachel keep running and hope they get a chance to meet at Churchill Downs in early November. Two turn races produce superstars. Saratoga is getting ready to crank up. See you at the finish line. I will be loving all the races short or long but will be focused on the breeding on the winners of the two turn events.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

Arlene — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:31:05 GMT

Modern Classic distance. No one cares anymore if they can run longer. And good milers..are seen as the bridge between six furlongs and two turns..much to the detriment of the breed. Oh, and, they have to get the 10 furlongs as a FIVE year old..in 2:00 minutes.Not much to ask for..speed, distance and longitivity.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

sceptre — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:49:39 GMT

Dave York-

Here you now own an untested yearling. We are waving a magic wand that will enable it to become a graded stakes winner-at only one distance. You can now wave a second magic wand which will determine which distance that is. There is an assumed given, i.e. the present state of thoroughbred racing. I believe that graded stakes are more COMPETITIVE at distances of 7f-1 mile. All else equal, a horse that can win the more competitive graded race is a "better" horse than the one ONLY capable of winning the less competitive graded race. You seem to grant that there are a smaller pool of horses capable of winning the longer races (smaller pool=less potential competition). While a Test Stakes may be less competitive than a Kentucky Derby, by and large there are a larger pool of 7-1 mile specialists than 1 1/4 M or 1 1/2M specialists. I agree that there's a lot more to this, but an example of my reasoning can be found in the relative lack of success of Belmont winners more recently as compared to days before.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

dave york — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:35:58 GMT

To Sceptre

Please explain the 7 or 8 furlong difficulty! It takes alot more training to get 10 furlongs, a much deeper base of training is required. Secondly, there is a much smaller pool of horses who are bred to get 10 furlongs than 7 or 8. Finally, the ability of a jockey to manage a throughbred around two turns requires many more decisions than a one turn 7 or 8 furlong race. Your reasoning is to pick the length of the race because of the current pool of horses misses the point of the question as I understand the question. I doubt that any breeder or owner would prefer a winner of the TEST over a winner of the KENTUCKY OAKS or the ALABAMA. How about the HOLYWOOD GOLD CUP or the PACIFIC CLASSIC or the KENTUCKY DERBY OR THE BELMONT versus the KINGS BISHOP or the FOREGO or the MET MILE. I do not understand the logic of selecting a 7 or 8 furlong stake win over a long distance stake win from a competitive point of view or from the perspective of relative importance of the race.

To Monkeymaple

Granted RUFFIAN was one of the all time greats and always magical to watch. I would prefer PERSONAL ENSIGN or ZENYATTA if I could pick one to have in my barn. With that being said I might take a blue hen mare that has won at a distance and then foals out a string of graded stake winners over those above.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

scpetre — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:47:56 GMT

It's much about how one interprets Ian's question-and it's a bit ambiguous due to the phrase "-in an ideal scenario-".; i.e. the latitude of the "ideal scenario". I took it to mean that, given it would be a graded SW, one ONLY would be able to choose the yearling's preferred aptitude-given the present state of racing worldwide. If "ideal scenario" extends to the added "priviledge" to change the present state of racing (example-that it is now most competitive at longer distances) one would be required to re-think their answer). Taken a step further, there are many more variables when considering ideal scenarios, among which is the question of safest distance.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

Ann in Lexington — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:50:38 GMT

Where the money is put determines where the market is. When Gulfstream put the money and PR behind the Donn H (9f) and downplayed its signature race, the 10f Gulfstream Park H, no prizes for guessing what happened next. And this was long before the World Cup came on the scene. The NYRA made the same decision - big push on the Met Mile at Memorial Day, significantly less for the Suburban on July 4th weekend. And now they have shortened even that historic race!!

Back when graded races first appeared, there were no G1 races for horses older than 2 at 6f or 7f. Period. The committee distinctly wrote that they took distance into account in their decisions, and downgraded prep races for longer, more important races. The current committee has abdicated its role of judgment and uses in its place a fatally flawed formula, one that rewards the commonplace (sprint ability) and penalizes the rarer talent (distance ability).

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

Dennis — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:30:27 GMT

Trainers would have to train, breeders would rethink choices, people would have to work harder but racing would be grander with distance. We are taking the easy way out. Buy speed, race early and retire them early is not a good plan for a fan base but we need to get back to more two turn racing.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

Monkeymaple — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:20:23 GMT

Ruffian ran 7 furlong races that were never boring.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

pNewmarket — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:30:51 GMT

Buy a horse with a TRUE middle-distance pedigree (12f+) and send it to race in Europe - plenty of top class 12f+ races here!

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

Bill C — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:45:58 GMT

I love turf racing and 1 1/2 miles is my favourite.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

sceptre — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 02:48:21 GMT

Since a 7 or 8f graded stakes is probably the most difficult (relative to competition) to win, those would be the preferred distances.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

dave york — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 01:51:46 GMT

10 Furlongs = A very small percentage of each foal crop is bred to get a classic distance. Most of the very high dollar races are run at 9 furlongs or more. The big money is at longer distances. This is good. We need to race more at a longer distance in lesser races. Longer races have more strategy, have more drama, more excitement for races fans and will lead to stallions who impart durability. This is a simple formula but is lost on racing secretaries. Please do an article on the racing secretaries obsession with sprint races. This is bad. They need to be exposed as the major culprit of the weakening of the breed. Breeders will breed to the money. A NW1X at 6 furlong should have half the purse of a NW1X at 9 or 10 furlongs. A 30K open claimer should pay a third of the purse of a 9 or 10 furlong 30K open claimer. Breeders will quickly adapt to find the stallions who will win the money at a distance. This is a very important topic you have posted.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

John T — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 01:28:18 GMT

I was brought up with European racing and no matter were I have watched horse racing I still think the five days of racing at Royal Ascot in June is the greatest racing on earth as you have a good diversity of top class races from 5 furlongs to 2 miles 6 furlongs.

I would like my yearling purchase to win top class races from 10-12 furlongs, but i too have a soft spot for marathon runners. In what is still a truly amazing feat Brown Jack won the Queen Alexandra Stakes at Royal Ascot over 2 and three quarter miles 6 years in a row from 1929-1934.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

JAJ — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 23:19:41 GMT

Nine furlongs.

I enjoy the longer races, but there are very few races written longer than 8.5f. A horse that can win graded races at 9f can shorten up to 8.5 furlongs, maybe even a mile, although a mile is really a sprint race. There are lots of races written at 8 and 8.5 furlongs, few at 9f and hardly any at 10f and above.

I find sprint races less than 7f to be very boring.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

Pedigree Shelly — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:58:03 GMT

Ian , That is a good point ! We all want what's best for the horse !

rocklady , Excellent comment ! What is the next big race that will be shortened ? Remember when the JC Gold Cup was 2 miles ?

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

WWSTP — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:30:07 GMT

Would love to see the Iron Horse valued again - at long enduring distances.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

Ian Tapp — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 21:17:58 GMT

I agree, 10 furlongs is the American classic distance - But if you breed/buy a 10-furlong horse, what options are there if it's not up to grade 1 level?

Ian

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

Pedigree Shelly — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:58:21 GMT

Ten Furlongs definately ! A Horse that can win at the classic distances , Derby , etc is what most breeders strive for .

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

rocklady — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 19:36:13 GMT

Will we never again see the likes of horses like Exterminator, who typically ran in 2 or 2 & 1/2 mile races -- sometimes twice in one week, or Lexington (the sire of Cincinnati, U.S. Grant's favorite horse) who set a record for 4 miles of 7.19 & 3/4 second, which was beaten by one of Lexington's other sons (7.19 & 1/2 second)? We need horses like these again.

re: Poll Question: Going the Distance

Karen — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 19:30:13 GMT

10 furlongs is the American classic distance.