Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Lorri — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 06:25:49 GMT

The BC Classic is 10 furlongs. That's all they have to run to win. Blame did that. Zenyatta did it too but just not as fast. You can't say "in a couple more strides she would have passed him". That's another race, at another distance. Blame won fair and square. Being a Zen fan, I wish she'd won but the fact is Blame won at 10 furlongs. Now if it had been 12 furlongs....Well that's another story.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Jim C. — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 17:56:06 GMT

Thanks, Ian. No doubt both horses deserve tremendous credit. I never claimed she "swept passed him." I do not believe there is a complete video of them after the wire to confirm that.

I do disagree with you over the significance of Blame "galloping out well ahead of her." By that time, Mike Smith was standing in his irons. Nobody ever advised him there was a further race after the wire. It is more significant that she did edge her nose past him after the wire because that is a point where both horses were in full stride. It is also significant that, during the race, Zenyatta covered far more ground in virtually the same time. I note that Blame was retired immediately after the race. No rematch offered by his connections.

Anyway, good post. The Seattle Slew-Exceller match-up in the 1979 Jockey Club Gold Cup did come to mind following the race.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Slew — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 15:21:25 GMT

I think many folks who watched the BCC first thought of Seattle Slew when Zen came to within inches of Blame. As an ardent fan of Slew, I have no problem with the comparison because it was also my first thought. My second thought, however, was that Slew was a front runner who set the pace for his races. My third thought was, Zenyatta will be treated like a queen by her connections, in retirement just as Slew (make that King) was. Exceller was dinner. What a sad indictment of us as fans that we allowed it to happen...to any horse.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Ian Tapp — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 14:20:36 GMT

Jim C.,

Thanks for the screenshots from a few yards after the wire where Zenyatta appears to have a nose ahead.

I believe the initial discussion sparked when Julie L. said "with another stride or two [Zenyatta] would have swept past Blame."

While I disagree with this statement, I now acknowledge that she was briefly a nose in front a couple jumps past the wire (according to your screenshot), but she never "swept past" him. Mentioning this is nothing against Zenyatta, but rather my personal assertion to give Blame some credit. I don't equate a momentary, narrow advantage with "passing," especially considering Blame galloped out well ahead of her. My point, as I've said repeatedly, is that we should give Blame credit for holding her off, and also give Zenyatta credit for her gallant performance.

Thanks,

Ian

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Richard G — Sun, 14 Nov 2010 04:31:03 GMT

@wondering: I'm wondering what race you saw. Dug in AND ACCELERATED? How can that be when the finish was closer than the stride immediately before? Was he accelerating backwards?

@JeffWilson: And the other time? Quality Road, Fly Down, First Dude, Haynesfield, Looking At Lucky, Paddy O Prado, etc. All victims. She vaporized them. "niche surface specialist(s)"? I don't think so. Just a silly comment.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Jeff Wilson — Sat, 13 Nov 2010 02:32:42 GMT

Oh dear God please do not make comparisons between true greatness and horses that ran in restricted company 90% of the time. Do not make comparisons between Triple Crown champions and niche surface specialists. Seattle Slew ALWAYS did all the dirty work while Zenyatta has NEVER done any dirty work up front. It's farcical to mention them in the same breath. Slew beat another Triple Crown champion TWICE. Exceller is in the Hall of Fame. Stop the madness. The only similarity between these two losses is that they were by small margins. Slew's race in unbelievable.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Richard G — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:52:41 GMT

@wondering: I'm wondering what race you saw. Dug in AND ACCELERATED? How can that be when the finish was closer than the stride immediately before? Was he accelerating backwards?

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

wondering — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 07:57:42 GMT

This comparison between the 2010 BCC and the 1978 JCGC is interesting for a reason that no one has mentioned. For 2 calls Exceller was 20 lengths behind the 3 leading horses. He made it up and won by a nose.

What I saw at the end of the BCC was that Zenyatta who always ran down her opponents at the end did not gain very quickly on Blame as he dug in and accelerated. I agree with Ian that Zenyatta had a chance that she didn't quite take complete advantage of.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

ray — Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:08:46 GMT

I'll leave the decision to those more capable however I do not know why zenyatta or any other female should have to run against the boys to get horse of year honors.when you win one grade 1 you prove you are among the best but when you win 13 wow I mean wow.other than her first 2 races every other race was grade 1 or 2.that is unbelievable.Her last race could have gone either way and one more stide? Zenyatta you have my vote.God bless you and all your connections.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Ian Tapp — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 13:25:03 GMT

John,

Sounds like what you're arguing is that she "had more excuses" than Blame. You are certainly correct. Because she has less tactical speed than Blame, it put her in a disadvantageous position where she was more likely to encounter trouble. She also didn't immediately handle the dirt and kickback as Blame did, perhaps because he had previous experience on the surface and she did not.

We often give horses more credit when they overcome adversity. Hats off to Zenyatta for giving a magnificent performance, as she almost overcame everything. Blame, on the other hand, better handled the conditions of the race and as a result, won the race. How much better was Blame in the Breeders' Cup Classic? The answer- a head.

Ian

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

John — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 05:28:20 GMT

ITAPP,

I beg to differ. According to John Shirreffs in an interview with Reuters today he backs up what Mike Smith said following the Classic regarding Quality Road..."When Quality Road backed up in front of her (Zenyatta) and Mike had to alter course and take back, that was tough. She's zig-zagging down the lane, looking for a path, has to check and go one more wide. That probably cost her."

Blame wasn't the better horse, but had the better trip. Zenyatta had clearing sailing at the 3/16 but only after making up 20 lengths in two sub 24's, then alters course because of Quality Road, zig-zagging around to a different path, has to check, goes wide, THEN re-starts her final charge in 24 flat.

ITapp, Zenyatta had every chance to lose this year and yet came within inches of winning. She ran the better race, because she is the better horse.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Richard G — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 01:13:37 GMT

@Andrea: LOL, everyone has a track record.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Ian Tapp — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 23:46:35 GMT

Hi marcelo,

The listing above includes TrueNicks stallions only. Essence of Dubai is not currently enrolled. He stands in Venezuela now, and of course we'd love to have him on TrueNicks if the owners are interested!

Thanks,

Ian

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Andrea Hoogendoorn Bouwkamp — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 22:15:47 GMT

@RichardG.

Where in my response did I mention Rachel Alexandra? I was talking about Seattle Slew's JCGC in 1978. I don't understand your response.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

marcelo — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 22:06:26 GMT

re pulpit`s stallion line you forgot to include ESSENCE OF DUBAI, sire of champion Dubai Majesty

And by the way Big Z and Secretariat the greatest horses I had the pleasure to see run in my life (73 years old)

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Pedigree Ann — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 14:53:10 GMT

Slew - I should have said 'older horse'. Exceller had already proven himself on dirt having won the Hollywood Gold Cup, by the way. But he didn't even get an Eclipse as top turf horse, because Mac Diarmida put together a streak of wins against 3yos and finished with a DC International win. The saddle slipped on Affirmed in JCGC, which is why he was a runaway and why he got a 'bye' on that one.

About the 1973 sprint title, I see for Shecky Greene as a 3yo that he won the Hutcheson (G3, equaled track record, beat Forego), the Kelso at Delaware (G3, under 128 lbs), the Midwest (Hawthorne, giving weight to elders), the Select (G3, top weight), the Patuxent (at Bowie, where he gave 8 lbs to to the older star King's Bishop), as well the restricted Florida race. And he ran second in the Fall Highweight (G3) under 137 lbs, to King's Bishop (129 lbs). Since there were no G1 sprint races and only 2 or 3 G2s in those enlightened days, this was quite a good record.

Linda's Chief was more of a miler and never beat his elders in a stakes race at 3. He was a grand horse and I still remember how sickened I was as I watched him fall over the inside rail of the chute at Hollywood Park and break his neck.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Slew — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 13:16:13 GMT

Bladerunnernyc: Pedigree Ann stated that Exceller had a better record compared to Slew in 1978, but didn't win HOY. I merely mentioned that neither did Slew. It was Affirmed who won HOY in 1978 BECAUSE he won the TC, which is why Slew won HOY in 1977. And...until we have another TC winner, we choose from the champions we do have. And right now, I believe, Zenyatta remained every inch a champion, even in defeat...maybe more so.

Vicaser: And I also noticed her ears still twitching at the finish line....Mike Smith stated she was distracted by the roar of the crowd. Zen is our rock star...and HOY...but I have to tip my hat to Blame who never quit. It was an amazing race, probably one of Zen's best...and even more of a reason for her to be HOY.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Zen4Zen — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 08:06:41 GMT

Nice analogy to Slew's game loss to Exceller, as Zenyatta too was glorious in defeat. She didn't, as some argue, lose to a better horse on that day in the Classic but to a very good horse who had a better trip.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Richard G — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 07:36:21 GMT

@Imfao: I agree with your comment about Claiborne. The problem may be that for those of us who could not be at Churchill Downs and watched remotely - I from China - on ESPN (but that's another story).

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Richard G — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 05:36:01 GMT

Well, a race is a "snapshot." The real complaint from Zenyatta supporters is that she NEVER got respect during the whole "film" (sorry to use a Hollywood-esque reference). To wit: reverse the entire race with Blame and Zenyatta in each others' respective positions. Wanna bet people would be saying Zenyatta hung on for dear life and Blame would have run her down in another stride? Absolutely. No matter what she would have accomplished, the $2-window guys would chomp on their 50-cent cigars and discredit her. Same as will happen during the Eclipse voting. It's East-West, New York-LA, War Admiral-Seabiscuit all over again. Blogs have just democratized the discussion (I mean even Draynay can comment!). And this is much to the detriment of the sport. OK, Blame did win the race. Zenyatta did not. Was that good for the sport? Think of those thousands of teenage mostly girls waving "Girl Power" posters. They're gone as fans, crushed, and dissing their heroine is only harming the sport you all claim to love. The last time this gender silliness happened, it cost the best female of that generation her life. And racing diminished in the culture for more than a decade. Wanna go THERE again? I think this is a good time to congratulate the winner (who wants nothing of this human foolish pleasure), acknowledge the loser - both of whom scored the same Beyer for the race, and rally behind the dying (yeah, really) sport that made such a once-in-a-generation spectacle possible. And figure out a way to get those Girl-Power-sign-waving-kids back. 'Cause, if not, Blame is to blame and that is more than a cute headline.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

lmfao — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 04:24:45 GMT

Zenyatta's race on Saturday does nothing to discredit the fact that she is one of the best mares we've seen in a long time. She's immensely talented and I don't think anyone in racing would be upset if she did win Horse of the Year for 2010. I have always been a Zenyatta fan, and truly thought she deserved the award in '09 over Rachel Alexandra.

With that said, Blame showed tremendous talent by taking down Zenyatta on Saturday. He beat a stacked Classic field and probably deserves Horse of the Year after the victory, along with his other G1 wins this year. Emotions aside, if he has the ability to beat that field--but most of all Zenyatta--that's a pretty good case for Horse of the Year being awarded to Blame in my book.

Yes, Zenyatta has done amazing things for horse racing over the past few years. She has drawn fans across the country and done wonderful things for the sport with her 19 wins. Perhaps that does warrant Horse of the Year honors, we will just have to wait and see. People know she's amazing though, and she doesn't necessarily need Horse of the Year to reiterate this point. Blame is a great horse as well and based off his resume this year, probably deserves the honor.

Finally, maryann727-- I think you're being overly critical of Claiborne and the comments made that Blame deserves Horse of the Year. Claiborne is one of the most well-respected operations in the thoroughbred industry and hats off to them for capturing such a huge win. If anyone was going to beat Zenyatta and her connections, I would have to say Claiborne deserves it. And let's be honest, if your horse beat Zenyatta in the Classic, wouldn't you think your horse deserved the honors as well? Just my opinion... Claiborne does not deserve to be misrepresented in such a way.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Ian Tapp — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 02:26:32 GMT

Sophie15,

Hahaha, oh, so that's what you were debating--who's the "better horse"? Don't her performances speak for themselves?

Here's some news--Blame was the better horse in the Breeders' Cup Classic. Zenyatta was clear at the 3/16 pole and had every chance to run him down, but didn't.

It's one thing to respect Zenyatta for all she's accomplished and done for the sport. It's another thing to call Blame inferior because you're bitter about Zenyatta losing.

Had Zenyatta won the race, her fans would be saying "she beat the top dirt horse in the country who won the Stephen Foster and the Whitney..."

Get real, guys! Zenyatta is great, but give Blame credit. He earned it!

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Dominic Campisi — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 02:03:17 GMT

Perfection Lost But Greatness Gained

Today we lost that sports moment in time we all cherish. That thing in sports we all crave for. Something to always remember. Something unforgettable. That thing you talk about as sports fans with friends and other fans that says we will always remember that, and wasn't that great. Then the comparisons start about who was the best of all time, or what was the greatest moment. Today America had a chance to have that moment. Everything all week led up to that moment. America got a chance to catch on late with the help of magazines and Television. It was a story made from Hollywood almost Heaven sent in a time of need. A feel good story in a year of uncertain economy turmoil and tabloid gossip. The cheers, the fan fare, the dancing was all there right up to the starting gate. But when the gate opened our hearts hit our stomach's. As the first half of the race was completed we all knew it was going to have to be a real miracle for our hearts not to be broken. Yes, this was her style but not this far back and not on this track and up against this field. You could feel the race being lost coming around the turn for home. No where to go and valuable time lost. Then a small opening to the outside that will lose more time but it's the only chance we have. She breaks free and can run, but looking at the field in front of her there is no way no chance against the best horses out there. But then you see that stride. That familiar move we have all seen before that has greatness written all over it. One by One they all fall behind like a train just went by them. Our hearts lift out of our stomach's because our heads say to us we have saw this before. That phenomenal stretch drive like the other horses are standing still. Unbelievable can this be the same horse that was at least 20 lengths back. The same horse that was tied up starting around the turn. One horse left but time is running short each stride a little closer. She has caught the other horse and needs just one more stride. But this time the great Zenyatta stride is too late. She passes the other horse but the finish line photo finish shows she lost by a nose. She fought the travel, the media frenzy, the dirt track, the bad start, the 20 lengths down and still only lost by a nose. The other horse had the perfect race. No problems just had to hold on and not get tracked down. One lost stride for perfection. The other horse's owner says we had it all the way. But the film shows different. It was just a matter of time that came a stride to late. Anything can happen in horse racing that's what made this 19-0 run so remarkable. Any given day like today to many odds are against you. While the other side had everything go completely perfect. What we learned today is not about our hearts being broken but about the heart of a Champion we grew to love. Who had no chance at all and just about pulled it off. Her critics who said she couldn't run on dirt saw that she did the same thing she always had done. Even with the worst of odds this time. Again one lost stride for perfection. This race will never be about how Blame won. It will always be about how Zenyatta lost. When your perfect in sports everybody remembers and never forgets. Who remembers the New England Patriots win streak because they ended up losing it in the Super Bowl a few years ago. But they all remember the 1972 Miami Dolphins. If Zenyatta would have won I can only imagine how the media frenzy would have been. You could feel the let down from Churchill downs, the TV announcers, across America at that moment in time. The winners circle seemed like a mortuary and Gomez the jockey almost apologetic. We all knew who was the best horse out there that day. Mike Smith the jockey can replay it over and over again. If we just would have done this or that because he knew already what we all know now. She is the best thing to come along in horse racing for a long time and probably the greatest filly who ever lived and he wanted her to have this sports moment so no one would ever forget. Hopefully unlike the New England Patriots we wont forget. Tonight Andrew Beyers and Jess Jackson breath a sign of relief her biggest critics. What were they thinking when Zenyatta made her charge? Again one lost stride for perfection. What excuses will they come up with now. It took all odds against her and a perfect race to beat her. Don't you hate it when someone lucks out and doesn't have to answer for being wrong. Today in this sports moment we lost perfection but we gained greatness. It's about what we call in sports of having the heart to overcome impossible odds and not so much about winning but to give it your all and giving it your best. We should all remember this day for Zenyatta never giving up and giving it all she had. Again one lost stride for perfection. But the heart that made her the Greatest Filly of all Time.

Written by Dominic Campisi 11/6/10

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Sophie15 — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 01:29:12 GMT

The point is, she lost because she had a difficult trip. And she did pass pass Blame briefly after crossing the wire. Zenyatta is the better horse, end of story.

re: Gallant in Defeat: Zenyatta & Seattle Slew

Richard G — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 01:08:21 GMT

@Andrea: Of course a Rachel Alexandra fan would write this. Where was your horse Saturday? All year for that matter?