Dubai World Cup: Japanese National Pride

re: Dubai World Cup: Japanese National Pride

vineyridge — Sat, 02 Apr 2011 22:06:20 GMT

So where in the North American breeding population are the lines in the mare that produced this horse? Where is Umidwar/Anwar; where is Busted/Bustino; where is Lorenzaccio (Herod Line, so very, very rare world wide)?

re: Dubai World Cup: Japanese National Pride

ThoroGreats — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:27:10 GMT

Mr. Porter, thank you for your response. My comments were not at all debating or denying that Sunday Silence and Northern Taste elevated the breed in Japan, as this is obvious. I was just trying to find out the specific statistics on his Group 1 siring success in Europe and the United States. I just found it amazing that those four(Taiki Shuttle,Seeking the Pearl,Agnes World,El Condor Pasa)Japanese based/and or bred to win Group 1's in Europe(I am guessing that I was correct in these four being the only ones?) were all not with Sunday Silence blood(while Deep Impact,Zenno Rob Roy,Silent Name,Sundrop,etc did not win Group 1's). Maybe it is just a bit of amazing irony to myself, and also amazing that his only Group 1 winner outside Asia was Heart's Cry(Dubai) and I believe one Australian based filly, as the other two were in Hong Kong(Asia). The amount of sons of Sunday Silence standing in Japan is also a staggering number, and amazing that King Kamehameha is leading sire(2010), along with Symboli Kris S,Jungle Pocket,Wild Rush,Brian's Time in the top 10.

re: Dubai World Cup: Japanese National Pride

Dona — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:22:37 GMT

Yes ThoroGreats, you were wrong and thank you Alan for such indepth research for the rebuttal. Sunday Silence was not appreciated here and it was our breeding programs loss. It is to their credit that the Japanese recognized his potential and they deserve the rewards.

re: Dubai World Cup: Japanese National Pride

garfs29 — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:09:12 GMT

looking at the pedigree of presvis, shouldn't darley try some A.P. Indy mares to Sakhee

re: Dubai World Cup: Japanese National Pride

Kris — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:16:46 GMT

Wow. This is a very informative article on pedigree analysis. It reads like the author did a daunting amount of research.

re: Dubai World Cup: Japanese National Pride

Alan Porter — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:56:07 GMT

ThoroGreats

The quartet you name were all Japanese-foaled by U.S. based-sires, so didn't truly originate from Japanese breeding (Taiki Shuttle was actually from one of our mating recommendations, as was his dam).

Sunday Silence sons to sire major international winners are Special Week (sire of Cesario, winner of the American Oaks (gr. I)); Dance in the Dark (sire of the Melbourne Cup (gr. I) winner Delta Blues); Divine Light (sire of Natagora, Champion European Two-Year-Old Filly, and winner of the English 1,000 Guineas (gr. I)); Tayasu Tsuyoshi (sire of Australian grade one winner Hollow Bullet); Bubble Gum Fellow (sire of New Zealand grade one winner Rockabubble); Fuji Kiseki (sire of Sun Classique, who took the Dubai Sheema Classic (gr. I)), and Genuine (sire of Australian grade one winner Pompeii Ruler). The trend was actually started by Sunday Silence himself, as he was represented on the international scene by the Sheema Classic (gr. I) winner Heart’s Cry; the Hong Kong Mile Championship (gr. I) victor Hat Trick; Stay Gold, winner of the Hong Kong Vase (gr. I); Silent Name, who took the Commonwealth Breeders’ Cup Stakes (gr. II) and Arcadia Handicap (gr. II); the Dubai World Cup (gr. I) runner-up To the Victory; and Dance in the Mood, runner-up in the American Oaks (gr. I).

The "almost inevitably" was used for emphasis of the fact that such a high-percentage of good runners in Japan stem from the Sunday Silence line - he really did elavate the breed in Japan.

re: Dubai World Cup: Japanese National Pride

ThoroGreats — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:29:01 GMT

I agree about that of course. I have a few follow up questions if I may? Did Sadler's Wells and Danzig shuttle? I am not sure, but I don't think so. And maybe it will take a little time to look up, but was I correct on the stats for the only four Japanese based/bred winners winning Group 1 races in Europe? And the other stats as well. I was just wondering? Maybe you or Mr. Porter can look up and see if I was correct? Thanks again

re: Dubai World Cup: Japanese National Pride

Ian Tapp — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:24:04 GMT

ThoroGreats,

Alan wrote "Almost inevitably" and yes, I think recent Japanese breeding is very rightly defined by the incredible success of the Sunday Silence sire line.

He never shuttled so didn't have runners spread around like Danehill or like sons of Sadler's Wells and Danzig. Also keep in mind that with SS offspring dominating in Japan, where purses are strong, there wasn't as much incentive to send them out of Japan.

Ian

re: Dubai World Cup: Japanese National Pride

ThoroGreats — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:00:37 GMT

Inevitably? Well, correct me if I am wrong, but the ONLY four Japanese based/bred horses to win Group 1's on the European continent are 1)Seeking the Pearl(in 1998, by Seeking the Gold),2)Taiki Shuttle(in 1998,by Devil's Bag),3)Agnes World(I believe in early 2000's, by Danzig), 4)El Condor Pasa(I believe in early 2000's, by Kingmambo), while Deep Impact was 3rd,Zenno Rob Roy was 2nd and 3rd. Correct me if I am wrong, Sunday Silence did not sire a Group 1 winner(a few Group 1 placings) in Europe or the United States? And he had one Group 1 winner and one Group 2 winner in Dubai,and one Group 1 winner in Australia,by an Australian based filly?It is amazing how basically all of his Group/Grade 1 winners were only in Japan, much like his great predecessor Northern Taste. I see a difference in the Sadler's Wells,Danzig,Danehill sons and daughters.