A Ford Too Swift to Cross

re: A Ford Too Swift to Cross

sceptre — Fri, 03 Jun 2011 15:41:00 GMT

Robert-

You speak with certainty, but from where does it derive? Have you ever been in the company of Northern Dancer? I have, and recall him as placid and kind. I missed Ribot (by about 3 mos.), but was told by Mr. Gentry that Ribot as a racehorse had no temperament issues, and didn't develop them until residing at Darby Dan. Also, while "mind" is a heritable trait, it is the very rare horse that is viscious/wild, and then usually due to improper environmental factors. Yes, some stallions are tough, due in part to hormonal considerations, but why should this bear on their progenys' "minds" as racehorses? While some stallions have deserved reputations for siring "mind" issues, it's relatively uncommon, and those with such reputation often are rather successful at siring top runners. I'm so tired of hearing what the German's do. With all their supposed weeding out, why are the vast majority of their breed third rate racehorses?..If the American racehorse breed is in decline (debateable) its decline was mostly due to massive export of our higher quality (read "quality" not sounder) stock, and the demise of the majority of elite breeders/racers. Yes, the sales are also a part of this, but I see no certain evidence that the breed is any less sound today-our training syles have changed/perhaps, for the better. Take a look at the avg. number of starts for the participant's in Saturday's Epsom Derby...Also, try to keep in mind that slowness can mask unsoundness. So, all else equal, we can prevent many fractures, soft tissue injuries, and breakdowns by simply creating a slower breed or, better yet, we can monitor them far more effectively/race them less often/allow them to better mature-more scientifically, and exert more general oversight.

re: A Ford Too Swift to Cross

Ian Tapp — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 02:33:15 GMT

Ryan,

No. "Classic race" refers to a country's Triple Crown events (for 3YOs). Specifically the term "classic distance" is a direct reference to the country's Derby distance, in U.S. 10f, in Europe usually 12f.

But I guess you could say that the Ladies' Classic/Distaff is run at the fillies' classic distance, seeing that our Oaks is also run at 9f, but that doesn't make it a "classic race" since it's not restricted to 3YOs and it's not part of the Triple Crown.

re: A Ford Too Swift to Cross

Ryan — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 23:23:51 GMT

Do you guys really not consider the Breeders Cup Distaff as a classic race.

re: A Ford Too Swift to Cross

Robert — Tue, 31 May 2011 16:58:46 GMT

Horsefirst!!! Amen, Amen, Amen. To many "Sires" today are nothing but glorified sprinters. As a breeder, I will not breed to anything that did not win at 1 1/8 miles or longer. A Classic race should be 1 1/4 miles or longer. Our Breed has declined so much that if a horse today makes 15 starts over 3 years of racing, that say it is alot. I remember when they made 15 starts in 1 year. Stallions, that are nothing but sale stallions, have driven the Thoroughbred to the brink in America. Animal Kingdom, while not a total outcross, does have the breeding that would help American breeders. A.K. has a TON of German and French stamina on his bottom side. On top of that, he has a mind that is not viscous and wild like some horses......read Storm Cat...... German breeders are ruthless on their stallions and if they don't produce trackful, quality horses with good minds, they geld them and get rid of them. If Storm Cat was German stallion, he would never of made it past his 1st season. His bad attitude, and conformation faults would have turned him from a stallion to a gelding faster than you can say Go! Why can't American breeders do the same. I can overlook some faults, but bad minds is not one of them. Having said that, I know that would have meant the gelding of 2 great stallions in Ribot and Northern Dancer, and knowing what I know now about these 2 stallions, I may change my mind on them. Storm Cat....I never will. He is not the great Sire of Sires that he is labeled. His sons sire 6 and 7 furlong runners, with very, very few of them siring "Classic" horses. Lucky for him he begot Giants Causeway. American Breeders better wake up and start breeding classic horses again, or we will wake up years from now, probably 33 since its been that long since Affirmed, and we will be looking back at Affirmed and wondering where we went wrong.

re: A Ford Too Swift to Cross

william — Tue, 31 May 2011 04:57:27 GMT

lets wait a few more days then you guys talk reality, distance is on ""animal"" favor is all I can say.

re: A Ford Too Swift to Cross

jamie d — Sat, 28 May 2011 21:02:27 GMT

so cal racer why is it a bad thing that their is no triple crown.we havent had one since 78. i agree with you mr.porter ak might be a turf sire, but a sire that we americans need to keep. support him with some top notch mares. he is true in every way an outcross,would be a shame to not give him a chance.but i guarantee one thing he will give all that he has in the belmont.

re: A Ford Too Swift to Cross

So Cal Racer — Sat, 28 May 2011 15:25:47 GMT

Animal Kingdom good as maybe on turf but not on dirt,will he win the Belmont maybe, but like I said before.. him winning the KY Derby is a fluke bad thing is there is no T-Crown this year.. he will be good on other races later on this year but for now don't hold your breath.. he will be in the mix on the Belmont but winning is another question.

re: A Ford Too Swift to Cross

Alan Porter — Sat, 28 May 2011 00:43:36 GMT

Hi Horsefirst,

Interesting questions! What we have to remember, is that we are dealing with very small margins here, only a bout a fifth of a second a length, so it doesn't take a lot to bring about a change.

I wouldn't think that ten furlongs would ever be Shackleford's optimal distance - the distance over which he could produce his best effort - but he did beat all but three of the Derby field, so he could win a good race at that trip. In the Preakness another 110 yards would really have made it nip and tuck. Shackleford had just switched back to his other lead again, and seemed to rally a little after doing so, but Animal Kingdom was coming hard. Then we have to wonder who would dug in hardest if they looked each other in the eye. My guess is Animal Kingdom would just have got him.

What is interesting about Shackleford is that he was able to handle the fast early pace of the Preakness, and yet run the last 3 1/2 furlongs faster than all but Animal Kingdom and Dialed In who were last through the first quarter. The ability to run those sort of early fractions in a 9 1/2 furlong race and not fall in a heap is a pretty valuable physiological trait (the Kenyan distance runners have the same ability), especially for an Amreican dirt horse.

I'd say that Shackleford would definately have the edge over Animal Kingdom over a mile, that Animal Kingdom would probably generally run him down at ten furlongs. At nine furlongs, in a typical U.S. dirt race, and if Shackleford doesn't get taken out too fast for the first half mile (he and Flashpoint steadied the pace after the first quarter in the Preakness), I think Shackleford would win more often than not.

At stud, stallions tend to throw to their background, so it wouldn't surprise me if Animal Kingdom became predominantly a turf sire.

re: A Ford Too Swift to Cross

Horsefirst — Fri, 27 May 2011 21:30:14 GMT

Was it the pace scenario or the length of the race? Would Animal Kingdom have run him down, even given how far back he dropped, in another sixteenth? Is Shackleford really a horse that can get 1-1/4 miles without the race going exactly his way, all the way? I was curious if the Preakness, being just that much shorter, gave Shackleford the ability to hang in there? Will breeders rush to Schackelford's speed but probably distance limitations, rather than to a horse like Animal Kingdom, with the breeding to help American thoroughbreds run longer than a quarterhorse that runs over 1/4 mile? Am I the only one that thinks that "classic" should begin at 1-1/4 miles, not be defined by that single distance?