Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

Cris — Sat, 13 Apr 2013 13:01:36 GMT

Now that Point Given has moved to Calumet. I hope he is helpful in rebuilding the brand. He is an outstanding horse and will sire a classic winner I am sure. He needs breeders that give these foals time because he is so large. Because of who he is the temptation is to send them out there, but because of the large frame of these horses you might as well burn the check. Now that Gary Stevens is back, I would love to see a good PG out there with Gary at the wheel. Good luck to all.

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

Mark — Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:47:29 GMT

Its a difficult thing to figure out You can get a superstar from a nothing stallion and a nothing mare and a $16 million nothing, The Green Monkey, from royal bloodlines and perfect conformation.John Henry look like a bit player as a yearling but was the finest turf horse in history. These horses have to have that drive that when a rider gives them that hit with their whip they have to dig deep and give that extra effort.That something you can't breed but a horse as a individual must have it. You can run around and say this cross and that cross works but in the end that horse must want to lay down his body and give you 100%.Remember, in the end a lot more horses will make you look stupid than make you look like a genius.

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

Cris — Thu, 24 May 2012 03:48:59 GMT

I think Point Given is a very useful stallion and if anything, could have much success with breeders and owners that are willing to wait and give the foals the time they need to mature. Point Given is a very large horse and any foal that takes after him is going to need to develop. He was a very talented horse and I think he will throw a classic winner yet.

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

Julie L. — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 22:02:09 GMT

Wow, it sounds like some of you people expect every stallion to be producing 100 stakes winners or more. If you look at all of Point Given's runners his win percentage is good. He sires hard knocking runners and when I am at the racetrack and see one of his offspring running I pay attention. Genetics is a funny creature and one can never be positive which sire line crossed with which broodmare sire line is going to work. Crossing the best with the best does not always produce a good runner and sometimes crossing the not-so-good with the not-so-good produces a John Henry. In the long haul I believe Point Given will go down as a very useful sire with the ability to throw a knockout runner or two every year. And with his stud fee at a reasonable price he is now open to the breeders that are the backbone of this industry and produce stakeswinners from sires in that price range.

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

Alan Porter — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:40:37 GMT

Sceptre,

Point Given always concerned me when he went to stud, as he was a physical "outlier" and far more like his broodmare sire, Turkoman (a disappointing sire), than his sire, Thunder Gulch (a pretty solid stallion).

Whatever genetic profile he possessed, and whether he was likely to frequently pass on a superior physiology (something that can't be judged merely on whether a stallion is commercially "well-bred" or not), there was also going to be the difficulty of producing a foal with harmonious biomechanics.

However, it is clear that while it hasn't happened any where near as frequently as might have been hoped, from time to time, Point Given he can get a very smart horse. Obviously some of those are out of the high-quality mares he received when he stood for a high stud fee, but what interested me is that when he has worked, it has been with a relatively limited number of strains.

So while, I wasn't rushing to use him early on his stud career, for the right breeder with the right mare (a group pretty well-defined on pedigree), I would definitely use him for $7,500, especially if I thought I would have a chance to race on an all-weather surface.

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

sceptre — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 19:59:00 GMT

NOT FOR PUBLICATION

Alan, and/or, perhaps, Ian,

As I see it, this is what comes when the "journalist" is economically associated with the topic of the piece. You chose this topic, and it doesn't take too great a stretch to foresee the type of comments received. In the past, I've applauded your blog for its authors' oftentimes follow-up remarks in dispute, clarification, etc. The piece itself was relatively benign, but it could easily (and did) prompt

some basic, but important educational principles. Your failure to now chime in on this occasion is disappointing, and I fear caused by that said above.

Kind regards,

Bob

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

Jason Shandler — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 19:07:23 GMT

Ok, I'm up. Tom: Bonds was the first .300 hitter that "popped" into my mind. Anyone could have been used in the example to show how baseless the previous comment was.

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

Jason Shandler — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 19:05:05 GMT

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...Sorry, I fell asleep reading Sceptre's comments, once again. I'll respond when I wake up.

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

JerseyTom — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 18:59:03 GMT

One must remember J. Shandler has no sense of objectivity when it comes to Point Given, and now Coil (AKA "Shoil"). Therefore, his comments are at least questionable, perhaps without merit. ... One also wonders why Barry Bonds was used as the example.

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

sceptre — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 18:49:10 GMT

Jason-

Your comments are indicative of one who has little to no understanding of genetics. Not very surprising, as you likely are the result of a not too fortuitous spin of that wheel. All this aside, your opening paragraph is structured illogically.

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

Jason Shandler — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 18:00:03 GMT

Yeah, so when he has standout winners its because of his lucky "spin of the genetic wheel" but when his runners don't peform it's because of his "meager showing" as a stallion. Can't have it both ways.

As a side note, Barry Bonds, a career .300 hitter, was a great hitter 30% of the time but the other 70% of the time he wasn't good.

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

sceptre — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 15:29:37 GMT

Alan's insights about what may work best with Point Given are interesting, but there's simply no basis for the comments (bloggers') that Point Given didn't receive ( initially, as a stallion) the "respect" he deserved. He was a great racehorse, and despite being not all that well-bred, was afforded large numbers of top quality mates during his first 4-5 covering years. He has produced nearly 500 foals of racing age (through his first 7 crops), a high % out of quality mares, but only 3% stakes winners. I can see no excuse for his meager showing-he has proven that his genotype is far from on par with his phenotype. But, he has sired at least two exceptional runners- Coil and Point Ashley-and this, in part, may be attributed (simplistically) to a greater liklihood of a fortuitous spin of the genetic wheel when one is both bred to large numbers of quality mates and also exhibited an outstanding phenotype.

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

jody — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 14:10:28 GMT

i am a huge fan of point given an i am so glad one of his sons won a big race i hope now point given gets the resecpt he so deserves an that alot of breeders will breed their mares to him he is a very good stallion an now i hope people will see it go point given i love you

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

Fran Loszynski — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 12:08:10 GMT

I bet there was a smile on Gary Stevens face when Coil ran such a great race. As the jockey of Point Given no need for looking back at what could have been, look what is! Gary you gave Point Given the strength and courage on the track and look what his offspring has "Given" you. Whenever I hear the name Point Given I think of the both of you!

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

skyfire — Thu, 04 Aug 2011 23:27:08 GMT

Jason will be breeding to Point Given with loan on retirement funds, I am sure!

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

Tracy — Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:43:36 GMT

I was very touched when Gary Stevens visited Point Given and how it choked him still about the Derby that year,but you know even race horses forgive and love unconditionally and never hold grudges.Coil is a representation of his Dad and hope his year keeps going good and he gets HOY.

re: Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

Jason Shandler — Thu, 04 Aug 2011 19:56:01 GMT

Point Given finally getting the respect that he deserves. After Coil is named 3YO champ, he will be a sought-after sire for years to come. Holla.