A Tiznow Sire Line?

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Mark — Sat, 18 May 2013 02:28:41 GMT

I think a sleeper son of Tiznow at stud is Slew's Tiznow.He set a track record at Hollywood Park at a 1 mile 1/16 that still stands today at 1 min. 40.34 seconds.He has a full bro,Slew's Tizzy, that earned $680,000.Granted, he never won a graded stakes race but did run 2nd as a 2 year old in the Grade 1 Keeneland Breeders Cup Futurity.At the Breeders Cup in his 2 year old year he had an awful trip about 12 wide and ran out of the money.But no doubt,when he was right he was one of the best.We will see how he does in California the next few years.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Dell — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:22:09 GMT

Ian, Tiznow is cheap @ 75k! Heading to the Top 5 general sire list 2012. Find you some quality Northern Dancer line mares and you'll be smelling the roses in May! Dell

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

dpkell — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 14:25:53 GMT

Ian,

I'm curious if there are any recommendations you would make to enhance the success rate for people breeding to Tiznow or his sons? Tiznow was a great racehorse but more good than great as a sire. His percentage of winners from starters is quite low as is his percentage of stakes winners. Where they hit they can hit big but there are big gaps between those headline successes.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Alfonso Spain — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 13:22:10 GMT

By the Way Sceptre, there is a very good stallion prospect in Spain of the Caro line called Fol Parade.

Covering very poor spanish mares, he has produced a listed second (France) in Monte Napoleone and the third of the Copa de Oro San Sebastián (a Delphi du Galop race) Festeiro beating Young Tiger (Multiple listed winner in France) out of 15 products. It is very rare that a spanish based stallion appears in the european stats, as our prices are so low that it is quite difficult to make a mark.

bloodstock.racingpost.com/.../eu_leading_lists.sd

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Hal Dane — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 12:17:40 GMT

HCR.,

There are still plenty of Godolphin line stallions around.

The Relic branch through the wonderful sire RAUT (1976) and his sons, Amur, Viking, ART, Yushal, Srok, Arbat, are doing well in eastern europe.

The In Reality branch through Known Fact is also doing well in European studs.

Another line of the Godolphin is in South America through the ARC winner Sassafras, with Henri Le Balafre, Dom Alaric,

and Baynoun, etc.. etc..

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Maggie — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 06:56:07 GMT

Love a horse like this, with a super balanced body, strong shoulders and quarter, and not too long a neck.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

John T — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 04:48:52 GMT

Tiznow was the success he was both on the racetrack and at stud because he has Northern Dancer written all over him. Of his offspring I was most interested in Well Armed when he broke his maiden at Lingfield Park when trained by Clive Brittain and looked to have great potential but unfortunately he had a serious set-back while racing in Dubai and it was'nt till later when he was sent to North America that he became the racehorse he could be. Tiznow give us two of the most memorable wins in the Breeders Cup Classic and best wishes to him and his offspring at stud in the years to come.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

HCR — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 02:45:10 GMT

The number of Tiznow sons standing or to stand stud is wonderful, giving great hope for one of the oldest and most legendary sire lines not only in the United States but also in the world as virtually no other nation stands a Man O’War line sire or other Godolphin Arabian line sire. Tiznow has and is producing major talents who thrive from seven furlongs to classic distances. Look at the tremendous cruising speed of Tizway. Didn’t that remind you of his father and distant ancestor Man O’War. Didn’t’ Colonel John’s finish in the Travers remind you of his father. As American racing degenerates into ever shorter distance affairs, Tiznow offers hope that we will have iron-willed horses capable of winning the most demanding races from sprints to classic distances and a connection to American racing’s grand but now distant past. Look at the You Tube replays of his two victories in the Breeder’s Cup Classic. That is a very great horse. Why wouldn’t you want to breed to that exceptional horse and his sons.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Ian Tapp — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:52:11 GMT

Thanks, HMP. Tiznow/Tizway corrected.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

HMP — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:24:32 GMT

As a great fan of Tiznow, enjoyed your blog...but small Oops.. you probably would want to correct the line in the paragraph about Tizway...the part that reads "Tiznow's dam, Bethany..." because obviously you meant Tizway's dam.

I'm hoping that Tizbud also does well.

Personally, I am curious to see how Tiznow does with some decently high class mares with distance proclivities. Maybe I am only advertising my ignorance, but it seems to me that since many of his stakes class horses have a marked propensity to run on or just off the pace, perhaps there is not so much of a need for sprinting emphasis from the mare; Tiznow himself, as well as Budroyale, had ample high-cruising speed. Just a thought. Always got to look at the individuals. Also, would love to see more of his runners tried on the turf, and perhaps bred with more emphasis towards producing excellent turf horses. Can't overlook the Relaunch...

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Pedigree Ann — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 15:40:02 GMT

Being a star sire is not a requirement for one's daughters to produce good or great offspring; having the right combination of genetic elements can happen without the numbers to lead sire lists. Having shown top class ability can in some cases be enough.

Seattle Song was a G1 winner at 2 and 3, in France and the US. He had a reasonably good stud career without being a star, most of his best runners having plied their trade in Europe/GB/Ire.

Nice Dancer was champion 3yo in Canada, having won the classic Breeders' S. He made a cracking start at stud Up North with 11% SWs, before the Japanese bought him; he sunk without trace in the Far East.

Pia Star was a top-level horse at 4, winning the Brooklyn and Suburban Hcps and equaling the world record for a mile; he followed up by winning the Widener the next year. He sired a lot of good winners and few stars, like turf winner Star Envoy, Arkansas Derby winner Impecunious, and French G1 miler Speedy Dakota. Also had some good-producing daughters - Clystella (November Rain, both of the top Australian Oaks races), Star Mommy (champion Mom's Command), Star Gem (turf star Star of Cozzene), etc.

Tompion won the Hopeful at 2 and the Travers, Blue Grass, Santa Anita Derby, and Malibu at 3. A top class runner. Sired G1 winners Chompion, Blue Tom, Timmy My Boy. Damsire of G1 winners.

All of the dams back to the imported Argentine mare Papila were winners and produced good winners; all but the one that had only 3 foals produced SWs. This is well-tested and proven bloodstock, not fashionable, lightly raced stuff that makes big money at sales.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Terry M. — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:29:51 GMT

I do like this sire line going back to In Reality, who was inbred 3x3 to War Relic (by Man O'War). Tiznow has Northern Dancer 4x4, nice to have far enough back to not be a problem with Dancer-line mares.

Both sides of the pedigree are better than a first glance might indicate. Aside from the obvious sources of quality like Seattle Slew, there is more tucked into this pedigree. Tizna (CHI) was a multiple stakes winner, competing against the likes of Susan's Girl, Convenience and Desert Vixen. And she was durable, making 54 starts with well over 30 in-the-money finishes. Foggy Note was a stakes winner. Nice Dancer won the Breeders' Stakes at 12 F and Pia Star equaled the world record for a mile in 1965. Sometimes class jumps a couple of generations before emerging again.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

sceptre — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 22:12:30 GMT

Tiznow has an enviable record at stud and this, combined with his own outstanding race record, attracts many to his accomplished racing sons now at stud. But, I am not too optimistic that they will succeed, or that his immediate line will flourish in the next decades. While Tiznow's pedigree may not have been fashionable, he did enter stud with other relative advantages. 1. He was a top racehorse that was also a basic outcross (no Mr. P/Raise A Native; and absent Northern Dancer for several generations); 2. He was a big bodied individual, tall with leg. 3. He displayed high ability over classic distances, yet his pedigree, particularly through his sire (Cee's Tizzy), suggested speed. These combined attributes allowed him to "fit" a large cross section of the broodmare population, but much of these "advantages" tend to dissolve quickly in subsequent generations...To many, Tiznow did possess an "off" pedigree (far more "off" than was then and moreso retrospectively Seattle Slew's quite good pedigree), but even now it's not certain that Tiznow is any better a stallion than was his sire, Cee's Tizzy. Also, it may be premature to annoint him as the savior of the Man 'O War-line-for one, there is still Boys At Tosconova to come.

We have lost, today, a truly outstanding stallion, Indian Charlie. He was, to my mind, America's #1 sire, and I'm sure the extent of his premature death will be magnified by the exploits of his remaining crops to come. One day it may be Indian Charlie, rather than Seattle Slew/A. P. Indy whose line proves to be the "savior" of the *Nasrullah-line.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Ian Tapp — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 21:14:33 GMT

Thanks for catching that, Kari. I made the correction. Morning Line was 1st or 2nd in all 6 starts, winning 3 of them.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Kari — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 21:12:25 GMT

Just a small thing: "Last year, at 3, Morning Line was first or second in all three of his six starts..."

All 3 of his 6 starts? Oops?

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Ian Tapp — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 18:49:47 GMT

Thanks, Michelle. I'll email you about the stallion counter--looks fine to me so could be something to do with the web browser you're using.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Susan — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 18:13:15 GMT

Was shocked to see Colonel John last month at WinStar. He has morphed into a big boy, so different from his 3 year old year. He looks like his daddy's son now. The Tiznow "line" is certainly very promising.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Michelle — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:17:41 GMT

Tiznow always seems like a stallion who needs a certain kind of mare in order to produce a good-looking offspring. I've seen some Tiznows that just looked like the parts were all put together wrong and some that are fantastic. I do like the looks of American Lion very much, and I know several people who say they are sending mares to him.

btw- the clickable link in the scrolling "Most Popular" at the top right isn't working.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

Byron Rogers — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:04:16 GMT

I did go out and look at American Lion the other day at Darby Dan and I must say that if he gets them like himself they will sell well in the sale ring. Obviously if they share his ability also then he could be a surprise package of the first season sires.

re: A Tiznow Sire Line?

LarryD — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:45:34 GMT

Tiznow has joined the ranks of top money earners among sires for the past few years, he appears to be progressing as a sire. While his offspring are not the overly agressive two year olds, they mature as they get older and have the sires influence to go classic distances.