TrueNicks Special Report on Emerging Broodmare Sires

re: TrueNicks Special Report on Emerging Broodmare Sires

My Ponies — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 00:36:30 GMT

I purchased 2 mares by Grindstone I/F to sons of Sunday Silence, Interesting sire line. My question is, do I bred them to Kissin Kris, or Gold Legend? Why, either have a derby horse, or Grindsone X S/S cross.

re: TrueNicks Special Report on Emerging Broodmare Sires

Abbey — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:15:10 GMT

I see that Grindstone was in the report but not in the top ten, what would be your take on him as a broodmare sire, just out of curiousity?

Alan's reply: Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} Grindstone probably never really attracted the quality of mares to give his daughters the type of familes that would ensure that he will become a major broodmare sire. However, I think he could be a good value for money play in this role.

The oldest stakes winners out of his daughters are only four years old, and he already has four stakes winners, two graded. He seems to have some definite preferences already. Two of his stakes winners, one graded, are by Doneraile Court. This is a cross that we recommended for Stonewall Stallions, and Doneraile Court is out of mare by a grandson of Turn-to out of a mare by Dunce, and Drone, the broodmare sire of Grindstone, is by a son of Turn-to out of a sister to Dunce.

The other two stakes winners out of Grindstone mares are by sons of Storm Cat. The graded stakes winner Control System is by Maryland sire Lion Hearted, and from a mating that we planned.

re: TrueNicks Special Report on Emerging Broodmare Sires

Brendan — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:59:39 GMT

How do you account for the tremendous book of mares that some stallions cover versus the average stallion---- which is obviously different. Case in point---was Secretariat a tremendous broodmare sire or was his average mare so much better than other stallions that he couldn't help but be a tremendous broodmare sire. He covered some of the best mares/families in the world.

Byron's reply: Good comment. One of the qualifiers we made was an AEI/CI comparison which in many ways does isolate the quality of the broodmare sire in that position and test him against all other broodmare sires but there is, as you suggest, an aspect where a stallion can find success as a broodmare sire based solely on the quality of the mares that he served, and the subsequent opportunity that these daughters got at stud via the quality of stallion that they were bred to. This is pretty hard to isolate. What we tried to do in the "top 10" was to come up with a list where the stallions hadn't really started at stud with what one would consider outstanding opportunity and I think we got the list right. The stallion that you could say has had the best opportunity with the mares that were bred to him would probably be Unbridled's Song but he started at $30,000, which doesn't mean he did it easy and go the best mares, yet he is certainly proving significant as a broodmare sire.

Alan's reply: Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} Obviously the quality of mares a stallion has covered does play into how well they do as a broodmare sire, but not all stallions that receive high-quality books of mares become good broodmare sires, and even some very good sires don't become great broodmare sires (even horses such as Bold Ruler and Northern Dancer, who were not only great sires, but also great sires of sires, were relatively speaking much less successful through their daughters). On the other hand, horses such as Buckpasser and Secretariat, were much better broodmare sires (and ultimately broodmare sires of sires) than sires or sires-of-sires. Alydar was a very good sire, but he's also been much more important through his daughters than his sons.

On the other hand, we can often see stallions that began their stud careers relatively cheaply, start making an impact even before they have runners from their better-bred daughters. Some relatively recent examples would include Dixieland Band, Dynaformer, Quiet American, Lord At War (ARG), and Carson City, none of whose early impact as broodmare sires could be attributed to the quality of their mares.

For the TrueNicks special report we were looking at broodmares' sires that "upgraded" the stallions that their daughters had been bred to. This rather evens out the impact of the female line, as when taken as a group, mares bred to a specific stallion in a specific year will tend to be of somewhat comparable quality.

re: TrueNicks Special Report on Emerging Broodmare Sires

Jim — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:01:27 GMT

Hard Spun

Jazil or maybe even Casino Drive

re: TrueNicks Special Report on Emerging Broodmare Sires

Bellwether — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 08:01:54 GMT

TAPIT...i have felt since the first time i ever laid eyes on him(ON THE NET) that he was a special Horse from the get go!!!

re: TrueNicks Special Report on Emerging Broodmare Sires

misting — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:33:52 GMT

i believe that empire maker will become one of the greatest broodmare sire ever. his beginning is similar to Buckpasser; Buckpasser's better horses were mostly fillies,he has some decent colts but for the most part, his fillies stood out. empire maker's 1st two crops have more than a few fillies (country star, mushka,acoma are a few who come to mind). so far he hasn't had any standout colts. the pattern is already starting; time may prove me wrong,but it is looking reminiscent of Buckpasser.