Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

sceptre — Sat, 03 Mar 2012 00:27:33 GMT

Buckaroo was the real hope to perpetuate the Tom Fool male line. He was good-looking and a very classy runner, but most of all had the right female-line. Unfortunately, he didn't attract enough quality mates to keep his branch viable. I liked Spend A Buck's looks, but his weak bottom line was a hindrance. Montbrook was speedier and somewhat better bred, but his get generally lack the quality look of a Buckaroo, Buckpasser, or a Tom Fool. Aside from Buckaroo, the likable Silver Buck may have been enough to accomplish this through Silver Charm had that one not also been weak on the dam side. Re., again Spend A Buck; I, too, liked Pico Central, and his female line is ok, but he's still a Spend A Buck. A negative for Einstein is that he's a Spend A Buck, and I wasn't much entralled by his looks...So, Pins is probably #1 to carry on the male line.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Hal Dane. — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 17:07:45 GMT

Alan.,

My first comment was simply to point out, that there were other branches of Tom Fool, other than Silly Season and Buckpasser.

According to the Australian Table there are four Group One winners by Snippets at stud.. Pins, Snowlands, Spartacus, Akhenaton, and two or three others (lesser grade winners)

I think Spend A Buck's group of classic winners at stud, are more likely to extend the Tom Fool male line.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Alan Porter — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 14:50:02 GMT

Hal,

Re Cawston's Clown the actual quote was "In Europe, Timmy Lad and Comedy Star/Cawston's Clown died out some time ago."

I guess if we look long and hard enough, when can find all sorts of effectively dead sire lines where there is still a representative with a pulse and testicles. So if you want to believe that the fact that a son of Cawston's Clown - who as far as I can determine have never had a stakes winner - had a horse who was black-type placed in Peru seven years ago constitutes an extention of the sire line, please feel free.

With Spend a Buck you principally have Einstein, who's yet to have runners; Pico Central, a horse I loved as a runner, but who failed in Florida and has been exported - we actually were involved in the matings plans for his only two stakes winners; Spend One Dolar, who has done quite well in Peru, and did get a grade one winner (his son, Maeto has a graded winner); Hard Buck who had a grade one winner in Brazil; and Adhocracy, Farenheit, Forever Buck, and No Budget, all had a least one stakes winner.

Snippets doesn't have great numbers of stallion offspring, but his son Pins is exceptionally good (more than 40 stakes winners to date, and at least six grade one winners) and has long been among the best sires in New Zealand. Snippets had a son called Snowland - raced for a Pedigree Consultants client - who might well have been a good stallion, but was very sub-fertile, although he did get a grade one winner from his limited numbers. His younger brother, Snippetson, is at least useful.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Hal Dane. — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 12:41:01 GMT

Alan.,

It was the Cawston's Clown branch, that you said had died out.. it's still around.

As an aside:- the Spend A Buck line has classier stallions at stud today, than the Snippets line, you agree.?

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Alan Porter — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 01:07:12 GMT

Hal,

I'm not sure if you were typing with your tongue in your cheek: I'll will give you that Timber Champ has an interesting pedigree (www.equineline.com/.../index.cfm) unfortunately since he never ran, we don't know if that would have expressed itself on the track. His sire, Timber Buck was unplaced in two starts, as was Timber Buck's sire, Timberlake. Timberlake's sire, Our Tammy made 48 starts, and was a winner, but never earned black-type.

I will also grant that Westbury (by Cawston's Clown, by Comedy Star, by Tom Fool) was a top-class horse in Peru just over 20 years ago. And his son, El Poeta, did as you say run in Peruvian stakes events, seven years ago. Unfortunately, he never actually won one, and as far as I can find, Westbury has never sired a stakes winner.

I don't recall saying that the Tom Fool line was "dead." I merely noted that it has all but faded from view in the U.S. - virtually relying on Big Drama and Einstein, or I'll allow, something that might appear from one of Montbrook's late crops - and that it's strongest branch is probably that through Snippets/Pins (who had another major winner at the weekend) in Australasia.

I'm not sure that the examples of Timber Champ and Westbury refute that line of reasoning!

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

The Deacon — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 18:14:42 GMT

Alan: I loved this read, wish more Bloodhorse would write like this. You and Mr. Haskin stand above everyone else.

Tom Fool is a very intregal part of American Thoroughbred racing, if we only knew then what we know now. I mentioned Tompion as I saw him run. He was absolutely stunning and had a wonderful turn of foot. Nevertheless, loved the blog, only wish more folks responded and remembered Tom Fool. Old geezers like me are a dying breed.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Hal Dane. — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:23:14 GMT

Alan.,

Timber Champ (2007) at stud in MN, by Timber Stag by Timber Buck by Timberlake by Our Tammy by Tim Tam.

The Peruvian group winner WESTBURY (1985) by Cawston's Clown

was at stud 2003, his son EL POETA (1999) was running in group races in 2005.... how is this line dead,?

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Alan Porter — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 14:24:21 GMT

Lots of interesting comments here. With limited space, it was obviously not possible to recount all the deeds of Tom Fool's best offspring.

With regard to his male-line representatives, I was looking at ones whose male lines are still a relatively important force today. He did have several sons that did well in South America, including Egg Toss, but also Logical, Chairman Walker, and Settlement Day, but they haven't really extended the male line at the highest level. In Europe, Timmy Lad and Comedy Star/Cawston's Clown died out some time ago.

I remember Tompion (interesting pedigree - Pharamond II male line, third dam, by Sickle, the brother to Pharamond II) being at stud in France, where he sired French 2,000 Guineas winner Blue Tom, and his smart brother, Timmy My Boy. In the U.S. he left the very tough Chompion (linebred to Champion Equipose, and his sister, Schwester, the second dam of Chompion), who made 88 starts, and won 10 stakes, including the 1968 Travers, beating that year's Derby winner, Forward Pass.

More important that his male-line though, is Tom Fool's impact in pedigrees. In addition to Buckpasser's achievements as a broodmare sire of sires, and Tim Tam siring Tamerett (most notably dam of Known Fact and granddam of Gone West), he's been incrediably important for the way he's combined with Nijinsky II and Blushing Groom, particularly facilitating the growth of Nijinsky II's impact, and at a distance with Bold Ruler (Tom Fool and Bold Ruler were a very unsound combination close up, brittle and arthritic knees, possibly from the combination of Pompey and his sister Laughing Queen), but they are often important in multiple combinations deeper pedigrees today.

By the way, Sceptre, I love the fact that you've seen so many of these horses in person....can't recall beyond the Sir Ivor, Nijinsky II, Mill Reef/Brigadier Gerard era myself.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

sceptre — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 23:18:55 GMT

Pedigree Ann,

Firstly, thanks for mentioning Ambitious Dragon. I've been following him and he's certainly a fine respresentative of the Tom Fool male line. Yes, too bad he's a gelding.

I do agree that occasionally-particularly in KY-stallions are discarded/sent away prematurely, but citing a Silver Charm does not help your cause. Silver Charm was exported after his first crop (numbering 76) ran through their complete 3 yr. old year, and his second (numbering 75) through their complete 2 yr. old year. Silver Charm received his best mates in those first two crops-check them out, they were quality books and, for example, included a broodmare of the year. Yes, at that point it may have been a bit premature to write him off, but his following three US crops demonstrated nothing to refute the decision to sell him. Silver Charm had, in all, 360 live US foals (well more than had Tom Fool during his entire stud career) and their successes were relatively quite minimal. They had ample opportunity to demonstrate prowess going long, but unfortunately weren't up to the task. It's far more unfortunate, in my opinion, that too many stallions are never afforded any opportunity to succeed. Today's very large books for some of the "provens" and "unprovens" (such as a Silver Charm) cause relatively little left for many promising others. Such is the nature of the business, and its increased commercial orientation has exacerbated the situation. Perhaps at its core is the false assumption that we breeders are wiser than we are. I see no solution.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Pedigree Ann — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:09:27 GMT

Pins marches on! His son Ambitious Dragon, 2010-2011 Hong Kong Jockey Club Horse of the Year, won the second leg of the Hong Kong Triple Crown (which is for older horses, not 3yos) last weekend. But he did win the Hong Kong Derby in his championship year, so still a classic winner of sorts. Unfortunately all male horses based in Hong Kong are gelded, so he can't extend the male line himself.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

The Deacon — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:22:28 GMT

Excellent article, my dad who started his racing passion in the 1930's just loved Tom Fool. He spoke of him many times and how great he was. Next to the legendary Swaps he was my pops favorite horse. I have been following horse racing since 1955, the 1st race I ever saw was the Santa Anita Derby in which Swaps won.

Another pretty darn good horse by Tom Fool that wasn't mentioned was Tompion. Tompion's dam Sunlight was by the immortal Triple Crown winner Count Fleet.

Owned by C.V. Whitney and trained by Robert L. Wheeler (trained Silver Spoon) Tompion at age 2 won the Hopeful, Champagne Stakes Sanford Stakes and Saratoga Special. At age 3 won the Santa Anita Derby, the Blue Grass Stakes and the Travers Stakes. He was also favored in the 1960 Kentucky derby but threw a shoe and finished behind Venitian Way and Bally Ache...............

Yes, yes, yes Tom Fool sired many wonderful horses, and only a few were mentioned in the blog..........

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

sceptre — Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:59:53 GMT

smartysgal,

The very talented, kind, and good-looking Tim Tam was also one of my favorites. I visited often both he and his sister, Mon Ange (great boodmare), at Calumet. I bred to him once, and years later acquired one his better daughters, Home Lass. As said, he too was a shy breeder which may have inhibited his record at stud. He was, though, a good sire, and an outstanding broodmare sire. As many know, he sired the great filly, Tosmah, who was second only to Buckapsser's Numbered Acount, as the best filly/mare I ever saw. Considering his relatively small numbers, Tim Tam had a remarkable record as a broodmare sire. Some of his better producers included- Tamerett, Three Tees, Royal Entrance, New Hat (see today, Boys At Tosconova), Tim Marie, Twin Bridges, Flying Tammie, Dusky Evening, Home Lass (dam of the talented Lassington who became a top sire in Venezuela), etc...Tim Tam won the Derby and Preakness and broke down, fracturing his sesamoids, while running second in the Belmont. Tim Tam was a member of Tom Fool's first crop, and it's interesting to speculate what might have been had Tim Tam not sustained that injury and instead won the Triple Crown (there was no Triple Crown winner from Citation 'til Secretariat). How greatly would it have enhanced Tom Fool's reputation, both then and today?

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Hal Dane. — Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:10:25 GMT

There are male branches of TOM FOOL descending from Tim Tam (Timmy Lad) Comedy Star (Cawston's Clown) Jester (Tri Jet and Reflected Glory) Tompion (Blue Tom) and perhaps Dunce.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Pedigree Ann — Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:20:54 GMT

Silver Charm was jettisoned when his oldest foals were 3yos. (First crop 2001, first Japanese crop 2006, means last US season 2004.) That's pretty early to decide he was a dud, especially since he was a natural stayer, but many gave him no slack whatsoever, because of his plebeian pedigree. If he had been by Storm Cat or Mr. Prospector, I contend that he would have been given more time to prove himself.

And how many G1 winners and G1 producers did he get among his mares? Not as many as Pulpit, whom he beat like a drum in Kentucky. Ah, but Pulpit had a pedigree! IMHO, as long as commercial breeders shun the sound staying stock that we have and concentrate on a few, favored but flawed strains, the longer we will prolong the dangerous narrowing of the gene pool we are seeing today.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Garfield L — Sun, 26 Feb 2012 00:27:13 GMT

Don't forget Buzzards Bay

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

smartysgal — Sun, 26 Feb 2012 00:19:33 GMT

Tom Fool! The sire of my favorite thoroughbred, and the first thoroughbred that I ever saw in person, Tim Tam! I remember reading in one of my early horse books that Tom Fool was a shy breeder and once backed away from a mare and fell into a water trough! Any truth in that?

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

sceptre — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 23:31:13 GMT

Pedigree Ann,

As much as I revere Tom Fool and his magnificent son, Buckpasser, it would be dishonest of me not to refute your remarks about Silver Charm. He was a wonderful racehorse and I rooted for him wholeheartedly to make it at stud, but he proved not up to the task. You tend to speak with conviction, but at times your facts are simply incorrect. Silver Charm did receive quality books of mares sufficient to demonstrate his genetic "tools". The breeders here began to desert him only after it became apparent that his prowess as a stallion bore little resemblance to his racing ability. His sire, Silver Buck, was a much better stallion.

In addition to Buckpasser and Tim Tam (another shy breeder), Tom Fool had many very accomplished racing sons. Two of his better ones were, unfortuately, geldings-Cyrano and Chicot. Please explore Cyrano's racing career. As usual, people here are focusing on the Tom Fool male line. I'd suggest perusing through the Tom Fool-line fillies re-their production records. Might be a real eye opener. Also, please note the success of the Tom Fool male line as broodmare sires. Buckpasser was spectacular, but there were others.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Terry M. — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:00:03 GMT

Well said, Pedigree Ann. I agree 100 per cent.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Pedigree Ann — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 15:38:21 GMT

I notice you overlooked the male line descendent of Tom Fool that we tossed away without giving him a proper chance - Silver Charm. By dual G1 winner Silver Buck (Suburban and Whitney), Silver Charm was a first class runner at 2, 3 and 4, yet the Bluegrass breeders didn't want to breed their good mares to him. Because he 'didn't have a sire's pedigree'. Just like they didn't want Sunday Silence.

Also not mentioned was Egg Toss, by Buckpasser from Garden State winner Eggy. He was leading sire in Argentina in 1988 and 1993, second in 1992, 1994, and 1996, third in 1988, 1989, and 1995, etc. His champions included Savage Toss, Bombazo Toss, and Batte Toss. His sons at stud include Bombazo Toss, Full Toss, and Cigar Toss.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Kjell Sjoberg — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 11:29:05 GMT

Hi, am a swedish breeder needing US expertise help. You talk much abt inbreeding. Pse, a general opinion abt inbreeding to Mr.Prospector. Positive as i Flower Alley & Roman Ruler, negative or just statistical.

Pse comment to kjell@ket.kth.se

Thank & welcome

Kjell Sjoberg

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

Terry M. — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 05:00:51 GMT

Thanks for a nice profile on this great horse. I always thought he was overlooked in recent years, which I couldn't figure out considering that he sired Buckpasser! Maybe Big Drama and Einstein will resurrect this great line.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

John T — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 03:59:29 GMT

Although Tom Fool was Horse Of The Year in 1953, one has to wonder how much that loss Native Dancer had in the Kentucky Derby cost him. Menow, the sire of Tom Fool was out of Alcibiades who was out of Regal Roman whose sire was Roi Herode the sire of The Tetrarch so there is a lot of speed on that side of the family. That good son of Tom Fool, Buckpasser was the sire of that remarkable Canadian-Bred La Prevoyante who was the North American 2 year old filly champion of 1972. She was undefeated in 12 races as a 2 year old, something I don't think we will ever see again, male or female.

re: Pedigree Time Machine: Tom Fool

sceptre — Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:18:11 GMT

Alan,

Thank you so much for shining a light on Tom Fool. As you know, I consider him to be without peer, but his greatness has been generally overlooked. Breeders shape the breed, so it's important that they maintain an accurate perspective. I urge all to take a close look at Tom Fool's complete racing and breeding career. For example, know that the National Turf Writers Association ranked Tom Fool as the #1 racehorse of his decade-take a look at his competition for that decade. Please also study closely his record as both a sire and broodmare sire. I'd argue that his "numbers" (relative to opportunity) in both categories are second to none. Now combine all three (race record, sire record, broodmare sire record), and you may conclude, as have I, that he may have been the greatest genetic specimen in the history of the breed. Yes, his numbers of descendants pale in comparison to many others, but this was caused in part by the fact that he was a shy breeder and, perhaps, in part because he was insufficiently appreciated. Male lines gain prominence, then momentum, and for a while perpetuate, often for reasons other than the genetic prowess of the forebear. For example, look closely at the overall stud record for Tom Fool's contemporary, Native Dancer. I lived through it, and it was crystal clear then that Tom Fool was the superior sire (let alone, later, broodmare sire). For some, breeding a better racehorse, or improving the breed, is a worthy pursuit. One way toward approaching that end is through achievement of the most accurate perspective possible. The more that are willing to take this route, the less likely that "valuable" alleles/or groups of alleles will be lost for generations, if not forever.