Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Ian Tapp — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:33:45 GMT

Thanks for reading, Michael.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

michael — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 16:08:52 GMT

Outside of the numbers and truenicks crap. I feel an outside horse would definately have to be GHOSTZAPPER. Although he hasn't sired anything to shake a stick at for now. He was so big and strong, could go virtualy all distances and had the quickest first burst of speed and the staying power to hold off contenders. It was a joy to watch!!!!!!

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Georgia K — Tue, 08 May 2012 19:05:05 GMT

I love Zenyatta, and I think her colt is beautiful, but I know that in the horse racing business looks don't always equal success on the track. I believe the Mosses love Zenyatta and always would do the very best they could for her. She will always be treated like royalty and have a great life. Broodmares are made to be in foal each year, sometimes it is hard to get them in foal if they have a year or two off. Her life really wouldn't be much better if she spent it without a baby. I have bred and raised Quarter Horses and Paints for many years and sometimes you mate the best to the best and it's still a gamble. With non race horses you breed to correct flaws. I like Tapit's foals, Hansen, Stardom Bound, etc. so I think he is a good choice for Zenyatta. Of course she might never be able to reproduce herself just as Secretariat never has. But I've learned that mares often pass on their personality to their foals, so maybe we'll see some of Zenyatta coming out in her foals.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Brookhiser 1 — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 15:47:38 GMT

Joyce D. I agree with you on the fact that Zenyatta brought a lot of people into racing...and got them to pay attention to the sport. I agree that she should have her fans because not only was she good...she spills over with personality...same way Secretariat and Seabiscuit appealed to the masses. What I don't agree with is that some of these fans are being lectured...by others who are in the business and have more knowledge. From my understanding True Nicks is exactly that...a blog for discussing the intricacies of horse breeding...hopefully by those who are knowlegeable on the subject. I think if her fans want to think she is a disney character...can blog elsewhere...where anthropomorphizing racehorses isn't viewed as harshly. I want to clarify that I don't mean this post in any disrespectful way....its just my humble opinion.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Joyce D — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 05:03:29 GMT

Here's what i do know about racehorses. Nature rarely repeats herself, and you would be hard put to find a superior racehorse who produced a horse who could beat him on the track. Yes, there are exceptions, notably Man 'o War and his son War Admirable. Hard Tack, and his son Seabiscuit, and although Hard Tack was a beautiful, beautiful horse, he had a miserable nature, and was difficult if not impossible to handle. He was, however, fast as the wind, when he wanted to run. It was the "when he wanted to" aspect of his personality that retired him to the stud early. Seabiscuit didn't have his looks, but he inherited his speed. Fortunately, he didn't inherit the nasty temper. Secretariat is notable at the stud because he sired great broodmares, (i.e. Terlingua and others, but he never sired a horse that could warm him up,let alone beat him in a race. Except for Lady's Secret, who some consider the greatest racemare ever. She was a grey, and her nickname was "The Iron Lady". Breeding a racehorse is all a matter of chance. Hence the saying, "breed the best to the best, and hope for the best." Key word here is hope. I'm impressed at the amount of knowledge about breeding displayed on this site, and convinced that the experts will get it right. Or as close to right as they can. But its fun to imagine isn't it, what the end product would be if Zenyatta was bred to this one or that one. Dream on I say, but only nature reigns supreme.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Joyce D — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 04:41:24 GMT

Right on about broodmares, and I know the comments about not turning a horse into a breeding machine was not the smartest thing to say, but some people don't know that much about horses, as witness some comments made. But your reply seemed kind of harsh. A lot of Zenyatta fans jumped on the band-wagon because she is a charismatic horse, who had a wonderful racing career. They stayed devoted fans because they enjoyed her personality, and if they read other things in that assessment, well, so be it. Think of it this way - it introduced them to racing, and if they're learning lots about the industry, all to the good. I know a lot about horses, and can tell people lots about them. But I know next to nothing about breeding, and therefore don't presume to second-guess anyone's decisions regarding a choice of mate for Zenyatta next year, and if people who love her want to treat her more as a Disney character than a racehorse, that's ok by me too. It's like all the people who went and saw the movie "Black Swan" and then turned into ballet experts overnight. You should have seen those comments on the ballet websites. Wow, made you want to pull your hair out. Zenyatta has been a great ambassador for a sport that needed a hero. Let her fans enjoy her without being lectured by people who may know more, but could stand to be a little less pompous about it. Just sayin'.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Barry — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 17:45:59 GMT

I would have preferred to see her mated to Bernardini three years in a row and then let her move on to Tapit. I think this would have given her a chance to produce the best foals possible.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Justine — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:52:56 GMT

If he proves himself worthy in the next couple years I'd love to see Colonel John chosen for Zenyatta. He has three crosses of Northern Dancer, a rather useful combination of Seattle Slew and Turkoman, comes from an outcross sire line, is well-sized and handsomely conformed, was a stakes winner at two on synthetic, won the mile and a quarter Travers on dirt, and ran like his tail was on fire at a mile on grass as a 4YO. But he has to prove himself first, ;)

Hope her next foal is a gray, like all the good Tapits are.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

michael — Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:38:48 GMT

galileo sea the stars are turf horses i don't want a turf horse with her if we are talking about a over seas horse i would like to see empire maker but he's in japan so that won't happen

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Brookhiser1 — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 13:55:13 GMT

I am fairly new to the breeding aspect of the sport but I find it rather comical that people are dissapointed with Tapit, and Bernardini...especially the latter. I have talked to many experienced breeders who believe Bernardini is a stunning animal with great conformation....and for somebody to say that he was a bad choice is rediculous. As for Tapit...there's a reason his stud fee rose to 150,000. He has proven to be a producer. Bottom line is, horse breeding is a gamble....there has been many champion mares who never amounted to anything as broodmares, as well as claming level racemares who became bluehens. To say that no stallion is worthy of Zenyatta is rediculous. She is a horse...not a person.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Khyle — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 04:08:41 GMT

Would be thrilled if Zenny goes to Galileo or the Euro champ, Sea the Stars! Pure class!

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Guiness — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:56:59 GMT

Ian, What would the nick rating for a mating between Tapit and Rachel Alexandra be? since he is a top sire.

And is it unusual that owners like the Moss's tread away from an A++ or A+ TrueNick rating for a pairing up (mating)?

since Tapit only gets a C for this mating with Zenyatta?

And a third question for you Ian, How many top notch horses running today or in the past that recieved a C mating that became stakes winners or higher?

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

flysofar — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:28:27 GMT

I'd have made a different choice, in that I like courage in a race horse and I think Tiznow (B+ nick), Big Brown (B+), or the new import, Lonroh (A nick) might have been a better choice. I do think that Zenyatta will have a good foal no matter what stallion it is. Over my many years, it sems to me the mare has much more to do with it than the stallion. I do like to see mares mated with sires of the same size, rather than big to little or the other way around. You seldom get one in the 'middle' and they don't seem to be outstanding. One of the reasons for Zenyatta's success was her size and the length of her stride. She had no speed and fast twitch muscles. The other was her will to win. I wish the Mosses had continued on with those traits with sires who had those in abundance.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Marie — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:28:33 GMT

What about Cape Blanco -- bring the Galileo line in.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

michael — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:01:47 GMT

i thought it would it was going to be hard spun both hard spun and big brown would be great choices for zenyatta with the danzig line

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Criminal Type — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:19:53 GMT

Karen, Thank you for the Rachel info. I seem to recall hearing that somewhere now that you mention it. Bernardini is a very popular guy, First Zenyatta, now Rachel as well as Shared Account and La Ville Rouge.

Several of you have mentioned Giants Causeway for Zenyatta, while I think his son, Eskendereya would be a better match for her because of size. Esky is nearly 17 hands, the same height as her. Eskendereye certainly had enough speed to make the cross interesting, and no doubt the resulting foal could run all day. Oh yea, the Nick is an A+.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Karen in Texas — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:02:17 GMT

For those who do not like the choice of Tapit for Zenyatta, perhaps the Mosses will discuss their reasoning on the situation on their Zen website.

Criminal Type----Rachel Alexandra has been bred to Bernardini and has been pronounced in foal according to her Facebook page.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Golden Gate — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:36:05 GMT

Okay at least the name will be an eaisier choice....come on and zap'em "Zapit"!!!

I really like Tapit and I am very glad the Mosses decided to breed Zeyatta to him.

For future years some have already mentioned Medaglia D' Oro and Giant's Causeway and Tiznow which I think would all be great for her.

Motherhood for mares is natural there is nothing wrong with breeding a mare if the foals will be taken care of. Mares normally love their babies. Wild mares will have a foal every year unless their bodies say "time out" which they do occasionally.

I wished she could have raced longer myself but she is very happy now so go Zenyatta!!

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Man o' War — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 18:43:41 GMT

PomDeTerre, no, you're not the only one disappointed by this choice. Frankly, I was shocked when I heard it. I would have expected a truly upper echelon stallion. I'll always wish Zenyatta and the Mosses well, but I'm quite disappointed.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Aluminaut — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:41:36 GMT

TJLuvsTizs,

There is an uncommon shared ancester for Zenyatta and Tiznow. The St. Simon line French sire Worden appears in both pedigrees. Worden was mostly known as a broodmare sire. He had a great shoulder and was an influence for distance.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Brigitte — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 05:17:47 GMT

Terrific if the result is a horse with her huge stride and powerful closing rush plus his precocity and tactical speed. But breeding opposites can go a different way. The result can be closer to the average. Or worse: as Nobel Prize winning playwright George Bernard Shaw said to the actress flirting with him: "Madam, what if our child had your brains and my beauty?" It will be interesting.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Karen in Indiana — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 03:52:58 GMT

I would agree with Tiznow. They have similar builds and the same determination. The only negative I could see with it is most of the Tiznows do better as they mature, which Zenyatta did as well.

Speaking of Tiznow, another match that would be interesting would be Giant's Causeway. His sire record has been outstanding and his offspring seem to develop a little younger that Tiznow's.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

indra — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 01:53:28 GMT

Although I am relatively new to this forum I have a couple of observations that may or may not have relevance. It seems this particular discussion is focused on the stallion lines rather than the tail line. Although I have lots of respect for Street Cry, my own personal belief is that Zenyatta's greatness really owes more to the maternal influences. Not only does a foal get 50% of the "routine" DNA from the mother but 100% of the mitochodrial DNA comes from the dam. Therefore all mitochondrial DNA comes entirely from the tail line in every foal making the dam extremely important I persoanlly would love to see Zenyatta eventually bred to the great Galileo although I am not sure the Moss's would ever ship her to Europe and I don't see him coming to the US to stand at stud.

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Tiz Herself — Sat, 24 Mar 2012 22:35:35 GMT

Can't wait to see the Tapit x Zenyatta baby! Likely that baby would be gray (would be lovely!) Next Spring will give reason to wait for between Tapit x Zenyatta and Bernardini x Rachel Alexandra.

I wonder if they'd consider Tiznow, Distorted Humor, Medaglia d'Oro, or Giant's Causeway sometime for Zenyatta?

re: Zenyatta's Next Mating: Tapit

Criminal Type — Sat, 24 Mar 2012 22:29:26 GMT

Not impressed with the choice of Tapit for Zenyatta. But then, I wasn't very impressed with Bernardini either. The Moss's are breeding these foals to race, so, it's not as if they were choosing the most expensive and commercially successful stallions out there for that purpose. I don't get it. Tapits are precocious and early developing in most cases, and we have seen the Street Cry's can be late developers. In theory I see them trying to put some speed into her stamina but Tapit ? Really? A C nick ?

There are so many others I would have considered before Tapit. She's an A or A + with Medaglia D'oro if my memory serves. I also would have considered Eskendereya & Big Brown. Eskendereya is one of the most physically impossing young stallions on the planet, much like Bernardini in his althleticism. He has an incredible walk. I can only say I am dissapointed and hope they see something I am missing. Oh well, It's easy to second guess when it's not your horse or your money paying the 150K stud fee.

Any word on who Rachel Alexandra is being bred to this year ? Wanna bet it's Smart Strike ?