Deep Impact Making an Impact

re: Deep Impact Making an Impact

John T — Mon, 18 Jun 2012 02:20:41 GMT

Beauty Parlour took the lead in the final furlong of the

French Oaks and looked the winner until Johnny Murtagh got

a good response out of Valyra to win by three parts of a length.She is by Azamour whom Murtagh enjoyed many big race

wins with.As Beauty Parlour is so highly thought of she certainly deserves another chance at this level.

re: Deep Impact Making an Impact

John T — Sun, 17 Jun 2012 01:37:59 GMT

Deep Impact has been doing very well and I am very interested in seeing how his daughter Beauty Parlour will

perform in the French Oaks at Chantilly to-morrow as she was

a convincing winner of the French 1000 Guineas and her jockey,Soumillon has been comparing her to some good fillies

he has ridden including the Arc winner Zakarva.

re: Deep Impact Making an Impact

Alan Porter — Mon, 04 Jun 2012 18:42:34 GMT

If we look at the Leading Sire list for 2011 in Japan, of the top ten, six - Deep Impact, Manhattan Cafe, Stay Gold, Fuji Kiseki, Neo Universe, Agnes Tachyon - were by Sunday Silence.

However, the top three were King Kamehameha (Kingmambo), Kurofune (French Deputy) and Symboli Kris S (Kris S), the other non Sunday Silence horse being Jungle Pocket (Tony Bin).

At rough estimate, it looks as if around 25% of the stallion population is by Sunday Silence (more with grandsons), and a higher proportion of the leading sires.

We have to remember, though, that Sunday Silence sons and grandsons don't have the benefit of covering daughters and grandaughters of Sunday Silence, so don't have access to some of the best mares.

What's really happen with Sunday Silence up until now is that he has had a lot of good stallion sons without an outstanding one, so although they have done very well as a group, as an individual King Kamehameha has probably been better than any of them (at least up until the emergence of Deep Impact). The "saturation" situations have a way of working themselves out. For example, sons and grandsons of Bold Ruler - as a group - were a dominant force in the U.S. at one stage, but he never left that one definitive heir, and now the sire line has more or less come down to Seattle Slew/A.P. Indy.

re: Deep Impact Making an Impact

ThoroGreats — Mon, 04 Jun 2012 14:47:44 GMT

Does Mr. Porter answer any questions? I was just wondering, as I asked in my previous comment, what % of stallions in Japan are sons of Sunday Silence? To me, it looks like an extremely high %. Considering this, you got to give a lot of credit to the sire King Kamehameha for dominating the sires in Jpn for the last few years.

re: Deep Impact Making an Impact

Pedigree Ann — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 16:49:00 GMT

I seem to recall that Deep Impact booked to above 200 mares his initial year at stud. I imagine he had a similar book the following year. How many foals has he had in each crop? 10 SWs or 8 group winners out of 200 foals is not a great percentage. I want to see a few more crops before I declare him a top sire.

re: Deep Impact Making an Impact

Deltalady — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 06:21:05 GMT

In the Japanese Derby, only one horse of the 18 entries did not have Sunday Silence in their bloodline. 14 runners had Sunday Silence as their grandsire via Deep Impact with 7; Stay Gold with 2, and 5 others; 3 runners had Sunday Silence as the Dam’s Sire. They really love their Sunday in Japan, and while I'm a huge fan of his, it does give one pause to wonder at the advisability of so much of a good thing. And, is it too much? Besides the obvious speed, does the SS brand and his sons throw off horses that are sound as well as fast? Or is the jury still out on that?

re: Deep Impact Making an Impact

sceptre — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 15:11:42 GMT

Thanks for this informative piece on Deep Impact. When a best racing son of a best sire becomes himself an elite sire, this adds to the "romance" of the sport. I had planned to add a bit more to this seemingly fortuitous circumstance, but tjconway's remarks of warning may be more deserving of focus.-

Through the years I've read various studies wherein some conclude that the thoroughbred is too highly homogeneous whereas others refute this concern. Some today point to the former as a chief reason for many of racing's ails. While I tend to disagree with that cause/effect feature, I am concerned about other potential negative consequences resulting from a limited stallion pedigree base. I've also read studies on pedigreed dog breeds, and while we tend to reject them as being not sufficiently analagous to the thoroughbred, I feel we may be mistaken in not considering their relevance albeit, perhaps, to a lesser degree. To that end, allow me to suggest readers go to "Popular Sire Effect" on Wiki and then to their #4 citation, which is "Population Structure and Inbreeding From Pedigree Analysis Of Purebred Dogs". Take particular notice of the remarks in the beginning Abstract which states "...For all but three breeds, greater than 90% of unique genetic variants are lost over six generations."...One might argue that today's level of genetic knowledge remains still too lacking for us to consider restricting the #s of mares/stallion, or other "rules" of this sort. On the other hand, we have already engaged in the practice of selective breeding, which itself is a form of genetic "tinkering". Since we've already began down that path, might mare/stallion restrictions be but another "tool" in selective breeding-? longer view vs shorter view approach? Would tinkering such as this impose a greater risk (to the breed)-owing to our lack of comprehensive genetic knowledge or, rather, be a step toward our acknowledgment of this fact?

re: Deep Impact Making an Impact

ThoroGreats — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 14:58:10 GMT

I agree tjconway...It begs the question, how did the sire King Kamehameha(Kingmambo) totally dominate on Japan's sire list the last few years? Not to mention Kurofune(French Deputy) and Symboli Kris S in the top 4 in Japan as well. Could anybody answer this question? What is the percentage of stallions standing in Japan that are sons of Sunday Silence? I'd love to know this answer, it looks like to me somewhere in the 80%-90% range are sons of SS? Do any pedigree experts see a problem with this?

re: Deep Impact Making an Impact

Opalisa — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 11:39:01 GMT

Sunday Silence is my favourite race horse. I could never understand why the Americans let him go. No one wanted him as a yearling or as a stallion. He is very special and I am thrilled that his sons will guarantee his legacy of tenancity and toughness.

re: Deep Impact Making an Impact

tjconway — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 04:54:41 GMT

It seems to me like Japan's racehorses are way too oversaturated with Sunday Silence blood. The same can be said for America. Too much Storm Cat....too much Mr. Prospector......Studding,whether in harness or thoroughbred,should have a responsible "limit"to a studs offspring each year. (say "60"!)....sorry all you syndicate owners! I doubt this will happen, since money knows no boundaries.