El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

Alan Porter — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:33:52 GMT

For Dave York:

A horse with Forestry gives a three-parts-sister to Gold Digger. He's got some sons at stud - Discreet, Forest Danger, Forest Grove, Teton Forest, The Green Monkey, Alluvial, Congressionalhonor, etc.

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

dave york — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 01:00:26 GMT

Reply to Dermot. I believe your suggestion has merit. I am looking for a stallion that will reinforce the inbreeding to Gold Digger or find a complete outcross. I think Notional or Seattle Fitz would be the best choices to reinforce. El Prado is one of the best bred sires available and his success is undisputable. I have always thought we need more stallions like El Prado to improve the breed overall. He was affordable earlier in his career.

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

Dermot Carty — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:31:37 GMT

DAVE YORK SHOULD CONSIDER ANOTHER SON OF SADLER'S WELLS THAT STANDS IN FLORDIA. HE HAS PLENTY OF SPEED AND SHOWED IT WHEN HE BROKE HIS MAIDEN AS A TWO YEAR OLD IN AN IMPRESSIVE FIELD AT THE CURRAGH. hE WENT IN AFTERWARDS THAT YEAR TO PLACE IN A GROUP 1 WHEN HE CAME TO NORTH AMERICA HE GREATLY IMPROVER IN CLASS

THE NAME OF COURSE IS SLIGO BAY AND HE IS OUT OF THE FULL SISTER TO GLORIOUS SONG THIS STALLION HAS THE BEST FEMALE THAT ONE COULD LOOK FOR. AND IT THE CHANGING SURFACES HE IS ONE HECK OF A POLY TRACK SIRE. HE WAS BRED TO MODERATE MARES AND I DO BELIEVE THE BEST IS YET TO COME AS IS MY BELIEF THE STALLION MUST HAVE A SUPERIOR FEMALE AND THIS IS WHAT SLIGO BAY HAS

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

ChevyWoman — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:12:02 GMT

funny thing is I saw a mare who was related along the lines to Artie Schiller [I think it was 2 or 3 generations, cant remember right now] and I had a friend bid on her because all I could think was to find the suitable El Prado son to breed her to. Funny, you mention this now and I was thinking it months ago. Sadly I could not win the mare, but if I had oh boy I would have had a befitting colt. I have been studying Thoroughbred Pedigrees since I was 15 years old, that and of course training methods ;) Thank you for the insightful articles! All the more for me to wrap my brain around :)

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

brogers — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:20:46 GMT

Gr II winner Cobalt Blue (by Golden Missile) is by a son of AP Indy out of a El Prado mare.

There is a decent 2yo named Montana Fields (by Pulpit) out of an El Prado mare also. Has won 2 races and ran in stakes races (the Debutante Gr I and Oak Leaf Gr I) earlier in the year.

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

Nick Klar — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:17:42 GMT

Okay, are there any more promising

2 year olds (male or female) with this El Prado and A.P.Indy cross

besides Laragh?

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

Alan Porter — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:33:44 GMT

Hi Phillip

Thanks for the question. In general, I have been somewhat wary of breeding out-and-out dirt sires to pure turf pedigrees (or vice-versa). That would be irrespective of nick rating or pedigree affinity.

Admittedly, it sometimes works, but over the last 30 years or so, there has been a diversification of types, so you risk getting some mixed biomechanics.

Now of course with the rise of the all-weather tracks that might all be about to change!

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

Philip Anderson — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:47:54 GMT

It was interesting to read Alan's comments on not recommending to spend a lot of money on crossing a dirt stallion with a turf stallion. Were you merely making this recommendation due to the B rating alone? What about a cross of a dirt stallion with a turf stallion that rates A or better?

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

dave york — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:31:29 GMT

I believe that El Prado progeny are durable. Is this correct? Durability is critical to breeders who have few mares. Second question, do you believe that El Prado gets more influence from Sadlers Wells or from his inbred dam [Alcibaides]? I have an inbred mare 3 X 3 to Gold Digger. She is very correct and has had success racing in mid level claiming ranks. I am looking for a stallion with distance and durability.

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

AP — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:25:22 GMT

Mr Prospector is tail female Frizeur and he is pretty popular too. He also has worked with El Prado mares.

Frizette does seem to appear in a lot of pedigrees and I doubt whether she is in better one's only. Indeed Frizette appears crossed in a lot of pedigrees and plenty of them are bad runners.

I tried an El Prado and a Sadler's Wells mare with AP Indy to get a True Nick rating and both were B+ based on Ap Indy x Northern Dancer.

With that B rating in mind my thought on AP Indy x Sadler's is that I would not want to pay a lot of money mating a predominantly dirt stallion with a turf stallion.

I was surprised that the pairings had not met enough times to produce a rating. Sadler's Wells I understand because of the geographic separation.

I expected to see el Prado and AP Indy with a rating. Still if there is no rating yet for AP Indy x El Prado there cannot be many runners on that cross and we have Laragh and Cobalt Blue winning group races it is a safe bet that this is a cross waiting to happen!

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

trevor — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 20:01:21 GMT

HI ALAN THE CROSS OF ARAZI/VICE REGENT IS A GOOD NICKS A 1GWINNERS IS ON THE CROSS NAMED AREUTALKINTOME CROSS OF ARAZI/VIC REGENT THE DAM OF AREUTALKINTOME IS BOSSA NOVA SHE IS BY NOSFERATU/SHARPO CROSS SO ALAN THE CROSS OF NORTHERN DANCER/HABITAT AND ARAZI IS A GOOD NICKS ALAN.

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

Alan Porter — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:23:55 GMT

I wouldn't ignore the class aspect, but there are plenty of well-bred horses that don't cross well together. This was a potential pedigree affinity that looked good before it was ever tested, and early signs are that it works.

I'd also agree with Dermot Carty, that El Prado looks a very promising broodmare sire. He was the first son of Sadler's Wells to really make it in the Northern Hemisphere. I also love horses that make good starts as broodmare sires, even though they mostly covered moderate mares in their early crops. Dixieland Band, who once was everyones' "cheap Northern Dance,r" would be an example.

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

DERMOT CARTY — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:09:21 GMT

Mr Sommerville should concentrate on the fact that El Prado has been on the heels of Ap Indy more than once as a sire. When one looks at El Prado's pedigree it is going to be no surprise that he will make an outstanding broodmare sire. Unlike AP INDy he was bred to a lot of substandard types and yet he managed to become one of the best sons of Sadlers Wells a long time before any of the others....so the word decent is not reflective. So in the words of a famous breeder ,breed the best to the best.

re: El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

Kevin Sommerville — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:16:50 GMT

Perhaps we are always looking for the answer when the answer is really staring us straight in the face.

I'm not disputing the reasons for the nick but then could it be that this nick works because both stallions are high class. I'm not surprised A P Indy and Sadler's Wells work well together. A P Indy is a world class stallion and Sadler's Wells is the greatest in European History!

El Prado is also a very decent stallion in his own right and I'm not surprised by his success with A P Indy line Sires, as 3/4 of the pedigree would be outstanding!

Don't get me wrong i'm not suggesting that mating the best stallions on the best stallions is the key i'm just pointing out the facts.