Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Darlene — Thu, 31 Jan 2013 03:22:11 GMT

So happy Calumet is coming back hope they allow fans to visit

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Dawn — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 23:19:22 GMT

No matter how you breed and choose a mate, you need a trainer who knows how to bring out the best in a horse and no where to place them... unfortunately, this is the obstacle that I have come up against more often than not....

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Sandra in Kentucky — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 21:25:33 GMT

It absolutely thrills me to see Calumet Farm building their stallion barn. I'm hoping the farm will be restored to the greatness it once experienced and the legacy of the farm will endure. I'll be looking for that Derby winner in 2016 from Americain! Love that Dynaformer bloodline!

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

John T — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 03:52:48 GMT

On this subject Alan,Tudor Minstrel was bred to get 12 furlongs but if we take a closer look at his dam side,Sansonnet was a very fast 2 year old who quite simply

did not train on as a 3 year old.The second dam,Lady Juror

was a half-sister to the flying Mumtaz Mahal and I think enough has already been said without going back to Lady Josephine to find out why Tudor Minstrel was an outstanding miler but that was his limit.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Alan Porter — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 15:33:42 GMT

JerseyBoy,

Owen Tudor was a very unusual horse. He was fast enough to win a good race over five furlongs at two, and could produce a brilliant finishing kick. As well as his good efforts, he could throw in some horrible clunkers.

He was a very inconsistent stallion, with a pretty moderate winners/runners percentage. In terms of aptitude, he seemed completely dominated by his mares. As you say, he threw Abernant and Tudor Minstrel (both from the Lady Josephine family), and another very good sprinter in Edmundo. On the other hand, he also sired Right Royal V, a very near great middle-distance runner, the Italian Oaks winner Theodorica and Tudor Era, who took the Man o' War Stakes, and at the extreme end of the distance scale, Elpenor, who won the Ascot Gold Cup and Prix du Cadran.

It's sheer speculation, but his speed and two, and his finishing ability, make me wonder if Owen Tudor wasn't one of those horses with quite a good proportion of fast twitch muscle fibre, but with a cardio-vascular system that gave quite a good aerobic ability. Horses like this can be somewhat pace sensitive while going long, which might explain Owen Tudor's inconsistency as a racehorse.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

JerseyBoy — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:20:35 GMT

The following 2 horses are on the TImeform All-Time Highweights List- Tudor Minstrel and Abernant.

Their sire was Owen Tudor, a true stayer in the ilk of Americain.

Abernant was a sprinter.

Tudor Minstrel was a miler.

They were both all-time greats.

Owen Tudor won the Gold Cup over 18 furlongs and the Derby.

Bred to speed, he produced Abernant and Tudor Minstrel, two of the greatest horses of all time.

Good luck to Americain.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

John T — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 01:04:05 GMT

Chuck

There is no question that the horses you mention belong in the top class of thoroughbred racing so I suppose the real question is does Frankel belong with them even though he never raced at 12 furlongs. For me anyway the answer is yes, In all 14 of his races I only saw him in trouble once amd that was in the St.James Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot but it must be remembered that came after he had won one of the best 2000 Gunieas from a very bad draw.You make no mention of his last two races which he won at 10 furlongs and the way he won them I don,t think 12 furlongs would have been a problem at all for Frankel at the top level.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

chuck — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 19:58:30 GMT

Dam Kind to Frankel. Frankel is a great miler and arguably the greatest ever but with no prestigious 12 furlongs on his resume should place him a tad less accomplished as Brigadier Gerard and tad ahead of Tudor Minstrel but he is not in the same category as the classic greats he has been awarded to be better ie Ribot, Shergar, Mill Reef, Dancing Brave, Sea The Stars.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Hal Dane. — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 09:34:00 GMT

Sceptre, my dear.. I record the first four in the premier races.. but only the first three in group two's and group three's.

I cover 149 races in 27 countries around the world, you must make allowances for me not knowing the complete finishing order of a race, Sadler's Wells was unplaced in the Arc, that is why he is missing from my records.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

John T — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 00:43:30 GMT

Sceptre

I have not got the foggiest idea what you are talking about

I merely said I was glad Bullet Train was going to be standing in North America, how that is substituting him for Frankel is beyond me. As for Sadler's Wells I made no comment whatsoever how far he himself had won races but rather he has sired winners up to four and a half miles.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

sceptre — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 20:34:01 GMT

Hal Dane:

Those must be some records you have-all videos? Otherwise, how would you have missed that Sadler's Wells ran two races in France soley because "he was so far back in the ARC..."?

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Hal Dane. — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 16:49:24 GMT

Hi, Ian.,

Thanks for the correction that Sadler's Wells ran twice at Longchampe, he was so far back in the ARC that I missed him.

I know that he didn't run a mile race in France..

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Ian Tapp — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 15:56:56 GMT

Hal Dane,

Sadler's Wells was in fact named 1984 champion miler in France, according to The Jockey Club. (He actually ran twice in France, running 8th in the Arc.)

I agree it's odd given that he didn't win a race in France, but I think, in this case, "champion" functions more like "highweight"--for horses that raced in the country. I'm sure he achieved it by his big run (but not quite staying) in the French Derby, and by beating Procida and Rousillon in the Irish 2000 Guineas.

A more recent oddity was 2002 Irish champion (highweight) 2yo Tomahawk. He raced only once in Ireland at 2, winning a maiden, but he was 2nd in the Middle Park and Dewhurst in England, which elevated his status.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

carol — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 15:16:16 GMT

Bullet Train's new place of residence has not been announced yet...just that he will stand in USA...

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Hal Dane. — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 12:32:12 GMT

Sceptre: ... What was the name of that French One Mile Race that made Sadler's Wells a "French Champion Miler"

According to records he only ran once in France.. and that was in their Derby.. over 12 furlongs.. finishing second.

Me thinks.. that you believe everything that you read on the pedigreequery site.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

sceptre — Sun, 02 Dec 2012 16:49:28 GMT

John T:

I presume (although it's a bit unclear) that you now wish to substitue Bullet Train (instead of Frankel) as an example of the contrary to the "rule". From a phenotypic standpoint his sire, Sadler's Wells, was a French Champion MILER, and winner of the Irish 2000 Guineas (1 Mile)-hardly the aptitudinal resume of an Americaine. For Sadler's Wells as a sire, you surely could have found more accomplished examples than a Bullet Train to support your position. Trouble is, many of those very examples also tend to remove a Sadler's Wells from the category of a genotypic out-and-out stayer...As an aside, my views on Frankel's true racing ability are totally irrelevant to this conversation.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Seabroker — Sun, 02 Dec 2012 13:57:54 GMT

Where is Bullet Train standing ...did not hear. this ??

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

John T — Sun, 02 Dec 2012 02:28:45 GMT

Sceptre

You had nothing good to say about Frankel when he was a racehorse even though he was unbeaten in 14 starts, most of those at the highest level. So it is hardly a surprise in what you are saying. I am glad that his three-quarter brother Bullet Train is going to be standing in North America. By Sadlers Wells whose offspring won up to a distance of four and a half miles and out of this wonderful mare called Kind, I am certainly looking forward to seeing what kind of mares will be sent to him. It is interesting to note although he was used as the so called ''Rabbit''In his latter races for Frankel he still run with credit beating some very good horses in the process.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Deborah Thomas — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 23:31:46 GMT

Way to go Calumet! Three good stallions and a clear path to returning to greatness! I love Aikenite.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Sabina — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:13:52 GMT

The importance of speed is never more obvious than in relation to the stellar start that the Florida speed biased broodmares have given to the likes of Mr Prospector Kris S and Saint Ballado just to name a few before they moved to Kentucky. Then when moved to Kentucky Mr Prospector brought the badly needed speed brilliance to those mares who were bred in the purple but were devoid of speed genetically. When they put the speed of Mr P on top of those royally bred route mares magic happened on the racetrack as it always does

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Sabina — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 18:46:13 GMT

World class sprinting mares underneath world class stayers have been the key ingredient in producing some of the most important influences in our breed today. Example, Crimson Saint a world class sprinter bred to Secretariat produced GSW Poncho Villa and Terlingua who was a Graded Stakes winning mare and the dam of Storm Cat-enough said there. Again Crimson Saint bred to top stayer Nijinsky II gave us Royal Academy. Crimson Saint did not have a blue blooded pedigree but what she did possess was world class speed which was the key ingredient. As mentioned earlier the dam of Frankel once again speed. Even backing up into the pedigree of Toussad she was out of a mare by the very influential speed sire In Reality. Miss Swapsco another speedball mare is the dam of Ballade and therefore responsible for Saint Ballado and Glorious Song. Look at Spring At Last his sire Silver Deputy-speed over a Dynaformer mare- route produced a millionaire. Barbaro is another example of route-Dynaformer over Carson City- speed. You have got to have speed somewhere in these pedigrees. It seems like more times than not you will usually find speed somewhere close to many of the real good ones. Mr Prospector was a brilliant source of speed that's why he was so brilliant. Same with the current hot stallion War Front-speed! I would hope that Calumets new sons of Dynaformer get some speed put underneath them. That will be there best hope to be successful stallions!

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Blue Hen — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 17:56:44 GMT

I said this of Secretariat before he was retired (or there was an internet). I look for Lentenor , given the right mares, to become a great broodmare sire.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

sceptre — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 16:18:04 GMT

Urban Sea/John T:

In a way, I'm sorry I raised it as an issue, because more likely than not, Alan and Byron are correct in avoiding such matings. Incidentally, the phenotype offers only a hint of what is the true genotype, and it is the potentiality of disparate aptitudinal genotypes that troubles them-perhaps, reason why Alan extended the discussion of Stilvi...As to your reference of Frankel, I don't think that he's a good example of the "contrary" to the "rule". An Americaine is, to my mind, a far more likely genotypically aptitudinal pure stayer-type than is a Galileo.

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Don h — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 06:11:13 GMT

When will the new owners start racing under the Calumet. As far as I know the are still racing as bluegrass Hall?

re: Calumet Farm Returns with Trio of New Stallions

Flora — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 03:37:42 GMT

I never dreamed that we would see a horse like Americain stand here, let alone at a revitalized Calumet Farm! This is very good news. Lentenor deserves to get some good mares too, with those bloodlines.

Ironically, we just let another excellent stallion with a stayer pedigree who has also sired good turf horses go to Korea - too bad Calumet was not the buyer of Rock Hard Ten. Bad mistake to let him go!