Derby's All Mine

Tied Together -- Birdstone, Medaglia d'Oro, and Musket Man

TrueNicks — Wed, 06 May 2009 10:56:55 GMT

Several recent posts inspire us to take a quick look at some similarities -- perhaps coincidental -- between the pedigrees of Birdstone, Medaglia d'Oro, and Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (gr. I) third Musket Man.

re: Derby's All Mine

sheik692 — Tue, 05 May 2009 15:07:02 GMT

Interesting what da3hoss said about sea level altitude.

Cannonero II, another shocking upset in the Derby history, ran in La Rinconada (Caracas, Venezuela) before the Derby at about 3333 ft above sea level. He also came from far back to win easily (in his case circling the field). He remains as the only Kentucky Derby winner that wintered outside the US.

Does anyone knows if there is a study related to how altitude affects race horses?

In the other hand.... what a pedigree!!! it's a pity that Mine That Bird is a gelding, coming from Unbridled, Grindstone, Birdstone (between them winners of 1 Champagne Stakes, 2 Kentucky Derbies, 1 Travers Stakes, 1 Belmont Stakes, 1 Breeders Cup Classic) and by the way, his broodmare sire is Smart Strike (Sire of Curlin and half brother to a Canadian Triple Crown Winner)

re: Derby's All Mine

Alan Porter — Tue, 05 May 2009 14:47:24 GMT

For human athletes +3000ft. is significant. The optimum method for humans is to live at altitude and do high intensity work at sea-level (it is hard to do the real quality sessions at altitude). For a horse you would probably get an adaption at altitude, especially as you don't train a horse as intensely as a human.

Classic Review -- Rachel's Romp

TrueNicks — Tue, 05 May 2009 14:12:20 GMT

Alan Porter finds a link between Rachel Alexandra, Mine That Bird, and a surprising group of young sires.

re: Derby's All Mine

TENMD — Tue, 05 May 2009 13:57:47 GMT

da3hoss Had a very interesting thought. I always liked Birdstone and have a 3 yr old by him out of a Storm Cat mare.

re: Derby's All Mine

Gary Peacock — Tue, 05 May 2009 13:56:06 GMT

Very interesting comment da3hoss.

re: Derby's All Mine

da3hoss — Tue, 05 May 2009 13:15:44 GMT

Maybe, just maybe, in his two starts at Sunland he was still adjusting to the app. 4,000 ft above sea level altitude?

In children altitude sickness sets in at 2000-4000 ft, compared to adults who usually can tolerate higher altitudes before acute mountain sickness sets in...

...how about a racing horse? Studies show that they do get altitude sickness, but don't entirely understand the mechanics, and they do seem to adjust quicker than people, but they weren't studying race horses...

Just a thought...

re: Derby's All Mine

Alan Porter — Tue, 05 May 2009 12:59:36 GMT

I think a conjunction of factors played into his win.

He's probably a better horse than he was showing at Sunland Park -- he came from Polytrack at Woodbine to what I believe is quite a hard surface.

He absolutely stays 10f., as his pedigree suggests. He is a smaller, light framed horse, ideal for muddy conditions, and he ran on the rail, which is golden at Churchill Downs in the slop.

In addition, the track was a drying out, holding, muddy track, not wet fast as suggested on TV before the start. The front echelon went far too fast, and even Pioneerof the Nile (who probably would have won with a more conservative ride), was dead on his feet turning for home. It's interesting that most the first few had been racing on Polytrack (a more tiring surface than dirt), with the exception of Musket Man, who had won over a very deep track at Hawthorne, which also confirms that the horses with a deep fitness base come out well.

I don't think Mine That Bird is a bad horse, but he'll probably struggle to confirm that form with some of the best of the crop come summer.

re: Derby's All Mine

bheinz01 — Tue, 05 May 2009 12:29:37 GMT

As the two year old Canadian champion, it amazes me that Mine That Bird garnered so little interest by journalists in the days

before the Derby. "class structure" seems to have hampered reporting. Also, Summer Bird deserves some praise. To finish Sixth by 13, in the Kentucky Derby as the 4th start in a racing career

certainly shows a horse that is improving. To find two young trainers that appear to know what the bloodlines have given and how to use it, is to be applauded.

re: Derby's All Mine

EMD — Tue, 05 May 2009 11:25:45 GMT

ALL OF WHICH IS WHY I BET THE HORSE! 3 DERBY WINNERS AND 2 BELMONT WINNERS WITHIN FOUR GENERATIONS -- UNBRIDLED, GRINDSTONE, MINE THAT BIRD, BIRDSTONE AND EMPIRE MAKER. WHERE'S THE SURPRISE? WITH MY PIONEER FINISHING 2ND, I'M BASKING IN THE GLORY!

re: Derby's All Mine

John T. — Tue, 05 May 2009 00:46:53 GMT

There is no question Mine That Bird has the breeding to win a Derby being by a Belmont winner out of a Smart Strike mare and rich Northern Dancer blood through

his son Vice Regent,but this was his first grade 1 after 2 sub par efforts at Sunland Park.Is it unexpected improvement or was his win in the Derby one of those 15 minutes of fame things.His next race should tell us which one.

re: Derby's All Mine

Jim D. Dooher — Mon, 04 May 2009 23:33:53 GMT

This is an addendum to the article, "Derby's All Mine." Going back 9 generations, beginning with Mine That Bird himself, there are 6 classic

(Derby-D, Preakness -P, and Belmont Stakes -B)) winners, including double classic winners, in the tail-male line all the way back to 1945 Preakness winner, Polynesian. Mine That Bird (D), Birdstone (B), Grindstone (D), Unbridled (D) who was sired by Fappiano who was by classic sire, Mr. Prospector who was by classic sire Raise A Native who was by Native Dancer (P, B) who was by Polynesian (P). Mr. Prospector is in the pedigree of other numerous classic winners going back to the 1982 Belmont winner, Conquistador Cielo).

JDooher

re: Derby's All Mine

shesfast — Mon, 04 May 2009 23:31:10 GMT

well said.

re: Derby's All Mine

Elena — Mon, 04 May 2009 23:25:59 GMT

I love Mine That Bird. He is so cool and so are his connections and Calvin Borel. Keep on going to the Triple Crown.