Ready for More Buckpasser

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

Bill Howell — Wed, 07 Jul 2010 20:01:34 GMT

Can anyone supply me with actual statistics for the percentage or rate of catastrophic breakdowns listed by sire or family? (as referred to above) And if the information exists only in anecdotal form I would like to read that material also.

thanks

Bill

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

Alan Porter — Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:52:31 GMT

Hi David,

The reason that there is no rating for the Ready's Image - Always In mating is that there are insufficient runners/stakes winners on the Southern Halo/Buckaroo cross to generate a sufficient opportunity for a rating. We only go back to the third generation in the male line, and third fourth generation in the broodmare sire line, so it cuts off before Southern Halo or Halo over Buckpasser.

That said, I would still be very happy with the mating, as Halo, Southern Halo and More Than Ready have all done well with additional La Troienne, and particularly Buckpasser. Here you have a lot of Buckpasser (twice in the mare), and extra La Troienne in Buckaroo, and Copelan.

Incidentally in answering this, I noticed that both Buckpasser and Copelan are Tom Fool line horses, and Copelan has Cohoes, who is out of a sister to to the granddam of Buckpasser, so they look interesting together (they do combine in several stakes winners).

If I'm confident in the reasons behind a mating (as I would be here), then a "No Rating" would not worry me. One of my clients just purchased a yearling at Fasig-Tipton, that was a pedigree recommendation, but "No Rating" due to lack of opportunity.

By the way, Ready's Image was owned by a client of Pedigree Consultants, and I know his connections thought that he had exceptional natural ability.

Good luck with the mating.

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

dave york — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:47:27 GMT

I bred one of my mares [Always In] to Ready's Image to get the Buckpasser cross. Ready's Image also has RAN top and bottom. When I use your service for an analysis - I get a no rating. I use your service and believe it has value. My four current foals and my other two mares in foal all have B+ or better ratings from your service. I bred this one on the advice of my farm manager. If I am in fact breeding to a cross you suggest, why do I not get a rating.

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

anita — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:22:34 GMT

I would rather see more distance races than sprints. If I had the money to own/breed I would breed for a horse to run distance races. If you want speed go to the quarter horse races--which are over before they start. I am tired of the "new" money buyers who want a quick return. Let us hope that Mine That Bird will be around for a while--maybe he could duplicate Kelso in 5 Jockey Gold Cup races. That would be fanastic.

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

Ryan Zabrowski — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:05:28 GMT

Is there really a decline of stamina? Prove it.

I like to think “outside the box” or “in my own box”. I believe that stamina has actually increased.

What is stamina? Should we consider stamina without considering how much faster the median thoroughbred runs today compared to the 1940s and 1950s? There are plenty of horses built like “tanks” today that cannot compete against much faster horses. So maybe these “tanks” have the ability to gallop long distances but lack the endurance to run at today’s speeds. Give our sport time – as the thoroughbred breed transitions they will run longer and longer and faster.

I think readers should pay real close attention to Alan when he says, “The "inbreeding to Raise a Native guarantees disaster" is something of a myth. Horses inbred to Raise a Native have suffered a lower % of catastrophic breakdowns per horse than the breed as a whole, and than many other prominent sires (including Northern Dancer).

If you are trying to breed or buy graded runners, ignoring Raise a Native crosses is a financial disaster.

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

Golden Gate — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:46:06 GMT

I would like to see longer races. I think besides just the breeding we need to look at the nutrition of young race horses more and maybe look historically into how they were managed and what they were fed in all aspects--amounts protein % and etc.

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

Jeanne B — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:07:19 GMT

Interesting comments. As a veterinarian that studies pedigrees along with injuries I do feel that fatigue may play a role in the problems that we see but I think that proprioceptive issues may be a bigger issue.We may be breeding more subtle "wobblers" than we realize. High level endurance horses (the kind that race in Dubai across the deserts) probably suffer more catastrophic injuries than our average thoroughbred but they are racing for up to 100 miles at speed and for multiple days. The can have bilateral condylar fractures that are horrific. I would think that our modern thoroughbred should be able to go up to 2 miles without the type of fatigue that should lead to a catastrophic injury. The "misstep" theory also doesn't really fly that well with me as a wild horse racing across uneven terrain seldom breaks a leg even when chased to exhaustion with helicopters. We have to be doing something bad genetically.....

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

Hannah — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:05:21 GMT

Responsible inbreeding in a pedigree should not cause fragility. Lack of horsemanship more likely results in breakdowns.

Need, speed and greed seem to have replaced horsemanship in the horse business. Alan is right, if the races were there, our business would maintain its stamina.

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

SusanW — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:11:40 GMT

Thank you, Alan.

I also believe that if we put more importance on purses for older horses we'd have a Yeats, too.

I wish there were more rewards for continued racing as opposed to the rush to the breeding shed. And maybe, if we did have more Einsteins and Zenyattas, we'd get our fan base back. I'm old enough to remember the glory days.

Thanks again,

Susan

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

Alan Porter — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:12:34 GMT

Hi Susan,

I think primarily, the decline of stamina in the U.S. thoroughbred is due to demand for a faster, earlier maturing sort of horse.

There are very limited opportunities, especially for horses below the stakes standard for horses who want a distance of ground.

We can note in Europe that the

2 1/2 mile Ascot Gold Cup has just been won for the fourth successive year by Yeats (by Sadler's Wells, a son of Northern Dancer), and in Australia, the mare, Makybe Diva, won the two mile Melbourne Cup three times in succession.

As far as Eight Belles (who did stay ten furlongs well), is concerned, she wasn't an unsound horse. She took a bad step pulling up (she was probably tired, pulling up in a rather sloppy manner, on her forehand, and took a bad step, very possibly crossing tractor tracks).

If we started carding enough races with good purses at all levels for horses going long, we could still breed horse who stayed well. Don't forget - A.P. Indy, who'd be generally regarded as the best stallion in the U.S., not only won over 1 1/2 miles, but is also a strong stamina influence

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

SusanW — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:37:49 GMT

Alan,

Is that because of the Buckpasser influence?

And I have read enough of your posts to bow to your greater knowledge, however, what do you attribute the general decline of stamina in the breed to, considering I just read someone say horses from the 40s and 50s were built like "russian tanks".

I just look at Eight Belles' pedigree and wonder why.

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

Alan Porter — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:04:51 GMT

The "inbreeding to Raise a Native guarantees disaster" is something of a myth. Horses inbred to Raise a Native have suffered a lower % of catastrophic breakdowns per horse than the breed as a whole, and than many other prominent sires (including Northern Dancer).

Inbreeding to the Raise a Native/Buckpasser combination is proving very effective for upgrading.

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

SusanW — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:55:37 GMT

wilayif,

I agree with you. And I think that is just the short list. Raise a Native, speed but fragility, Buckpasser, awesome horse with speed and stamina, but prone to quarter cracks. I hope she can somehow get the good without all that bad.

re: Ready for More Buckpasser

wilayif — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:39:38 GMT

Having Raise a Native 3 times in a horse's pedigree is asking for trouble. 3 examples: Pine Island, Eight Belles and Terrain.