re: It's All Relative

vascolarrargentina — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 18:18:16 GMT

diganme algo del NICK Blushing groom con Mr Prospector. Producto Rosauer 2008 macho tostado.gracias

re: It's All Relative

mo — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:25:01 GMT

To Quote "quite a pedigree". This horse with "quite a pedigree" only received a B+ and won the most expensive race of the week! This is a perfect example of why the "nick craziness" is probably more detrimental to the breeding business than anything since "breeding for sale horses" became the craze. With the highly advertised "nick system", No one is interested in breeding to a stallion unless it is an "A" nick or higher. At the sales, no one is interested in a horse that is not an "A" nick or higher. This then causes an even narrower genetic cross to stallions so that no "new nicks" ever have a chance to evolve! Just think, if the "nick nonsense" had been around when Mr. Prospector went to stud, he would probably only have ever been crossed to Northern Dancer mares. Horses like E Dubai, Miner's Mark, Our Emblem, and Afleet for example, would never have been bred. If you stop and think about it, with 6% stakes winners from foals to race being considered a healthy number of stakes winners, the greatest factor in breeding a stakes horses, let alone a Graded Stakes horse, is Lady Luck! You can try and nudge Lady Luck a little but 6 successes out of a 100 tries is purely a gift from the good Lord. Nicks are just another factor who's greatest influence on the breed will be the narrowing of the genetic pool of mares sent to each particular stallion. In a very short "long run", a disaster for the breed.

Byron's Reply: Mo. Firstly thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts. I probably wouldn't be quite as apocalyptic as you have been here but I understand the central tenet of what you are discussing here. At TrueNicks we have always maintained two things:

1) B+ or better is where statistically speaking the odds of you producing a superior runner start to tip in your favor, but the rating requires some intelligent interpretation. There are cases where a B+ mating is a better mating than an A++ mating as the horses being used and the quality of the horses produced on the cross to date are superior in the B+ example than in the A++. It happens from time to time which is why we have continually reiterated the point that you need to look at the top 5 bred on the cross and make an intelligent decision regarding the mating at hand. We have repeated this an number of times on this blog.

2) Paper doesn't run very fast. You need to consider the physical aspects of the mare and stallion involved before making a mating decision and in the case of a yearling sale an A+ rated horse with legs stuck on sideways is going to find it hard to be a superior runner no matter what the pedigree pattern says.

Don't worry we have had the same feedback (i.e wanting A rated matings over all other things) from other users but I think that we have been pretty clear on this blog, and in dealing with clients at Pedigree Consultants that you need to consider a lot of other factors in making your decisions.

This all said, I am also not sure that I can agree with your assertion that no "no new nicks ever have a chance to evolve". Stallions and sirelines change over time. Some die out and some evolve in different directions, both in genetic composition and phenotype which in turn leads to different genetic affinities. Fappiano works a lot different to Gone West for example and both of these work differently as sires and as broodmare sires. Additionally, a stallion that is any good relies on more than one "nick" for success. Storm Cat did well with Mr Prospector line mares, but he also did well with Roberto line mares (and other sire lines). Some sons of Storm Cat in turn favored Mr Prospector line mares a little more than Roberto because of their pedigree structure while others preferred Roberto over Mr Prospector. There is general genetic affinity but then nuances like this ensure that nicks do evolve over time, especially as sirelines change.

Thanks again for your comment