Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

-Keelerman — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 22:31:17 GMT

Is California Chrome vulnerable in the Pennsylvania Derby? I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts!

cs.bloodhorse.com/.../is-california-chrome-vulnerable-in-pennsylvania-derby.aspx

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

Coldfacts — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:56:11 GMT

Wise Dan defeated Optimizer, Seek Again Kaigun and ZA Approval in his last 4 victories. If the aforementioned horses were racing in Europe they would probably be at a track none of us have ever heard of.

Let’s assume Kingman suffers no ill effects from his travel across the pond; takes to the rock hard turf at SA Park; is not impacted by the change in time zones and suffers no negative effects if Lasix is added. Do you seriously believe the aging 7YO will be able to repel the devastating turn of foot possessed by the brilliant 3YO?

Animal Kingdom was the only horse that closed rapidly on Wise Dan over a mile and I remain convinced that if he had clear passage he would have won.

Wise Dan would have many advantages over Kingman but I doubt they would be enough to ensure him a victory.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

-Keelerman — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:40:23 GMT

mz;

That was indeed a shame. I was also looking forward to seeing Sea the Moon run in the Arc, and was very disappointed to hear the news of his retirement.

I was also saddened to hear of Olympic Glory's retirement, as I've been a big fan of him since his days as a two-year-old in 2012.

But on a cheerier note, Irish St Leger (Ire-I) winner Brown Panther is under consideration for the Breeders' Cup Turf. His presence would definitely add some sparkle to the race!

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

-Keelerman — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:32:03 GMT

JerseyBoy;

I'm with you! Given the high regard in which Kingman is held, defeating Kingman in the Breeders' Cup Mile would -- in my opinion -- be the crowning glory of Wise Dan's career. Of course, Wise Dan is getting up there in years, and Coldfacts may be right that Wise Dan isn't quite the horse he once was. But I'm confident that Wise Dan, at his peak, would triumph in a match against Kingman, and I've got my fingers crossed that he does just that this November.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

mz — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:05:20 GMT

Ack! Sea the Moon retired! I was so looking forward to his run in the Arc!

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

JerseyBoy — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:07:47 GMT

Keelerman:

I hope Kingman comes for the Breeders’ Cup mile. It will be another opportunity for Wise Dan to show again how great he is. Wise Dan is a great racehorse. Kingman is not. This is not my opinion.

Kingman does not qualify for the Timeform All-Time Highweights list as of Sept 14. Wise Dan is on the list.

I have seen Goldikova referred to by some as a great racehorse. People who rank her highly must not have read her record in Europe. No horse who beat her in Europe has been ranked above 134 by Timeform. Therefore, none of them qualify for inclusion on the list.

Goldikova was beaten by the following fillies and colts in Europe-

Dream Ahead (male), Immortal Verse (female), Canford Cliffs (male), Makfi (male), Varenar (male), Never On Sunday (male), Azabara (female), Zarkava (female) twice.

None of those horses are on the Highweights list. Neither is Goldikova.

Wise Dan is on the list. This is a simple fact, not speculation.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

Coldfacts — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:58:34 GMT

Keelerman,

"Kingman and Wise Dan."

Why would you be excited about a match up of the two?

Kingman is a brilliant young horse and a rising star. Whereas, Wise Dan is ageing champion who barely lasted home form 28-1 Optimizer in his last stat. Optimizer who was abused when under Lukas care has never featured in any major G1 race over a mile.

Goldikova contested the Turf Mile 4 times. How many times did Wise Dan face her? Let me help you, none. He was in hiding when the super filly/mare was blowing away America's best.

When I read views about Wise Dan's greatness I always wonder if he is so great, why did his connections hide him from a female. Why hasn't he been shipped to Europe to contest their major G1 mile races?

The American racing public ignore the fact that shippers from Europe are always at a major disadvantage to their American counterparts. They travels long distances to contest races in different times zone, on flat hard surfaces against medically enhanced horses.

When we celebrate our champions it is worth bearing in mind that playing field in not always level.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

Coldfacts — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:38:03 GMT

Pedigree Ann,

I am not oblivious to the usage of the term. However, I remain convinced that brilliant horses are capable of over coming less than ideal circumstances and win.

Many races never unfold as planed and horses still win. If Australia has won the race he would have been showered with accolades and there would have been no mention that he did so without cover.

He got beat by a better horse on the day. There was no mentioned prior to the race that if he did not secure cover he would be vulnerable.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

Pedigree Ann — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:03:51 GMT

Keelerman - wish I could show you my photos. Australia would have been in the parking lot (sorry, that's carpark) in most US venues. And he was there with a good 3 furlongs of straight to run.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

Pedigree Ann — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:41:13 GMT

Coldfacts - Euro horses that come from off the pace always try to find cover - they are taught to relax during a race when behind other horses. Oftentimes a pacemaker is in a race to provide cover for a horse who gets too 'lit-up' if he leads himself. Try reading the Racing Post @ www.racingpost.com and you will see how often cover or lack thereof comes up.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

Coldfacts — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 18:19:47 GMT

Keelerman,

"Australia was kept wide and without cover throughout the race"

I had to double check to confirm that you were not referring to a harness horse. The disclosure above is widely made in harness racing.

I am of the opinion that brilliant horses require no ideal set up to win as they usually find ways to overcome adversities and win.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

-Keelerman — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 15:02:19 GMT

There's been a major development in regard to the Breeders' Cup Mile: Kingman, winner of the group I Sussex Stakes among many other prestigious prizes, has a throat infection that may cause him to miss the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes at Ascot. As a result, he may target the Breeders' Cup Mile, setting up an epic showdown between two of the world's greatest milers -- Kingman and Wise Dan.

www.drf.com/.../moyglare-stud-winner-cursory-glance-unlikely-breeders-cup

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

-Keelerman — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:59:25 GMT

Pedigree Ann;

That's a good thought! The Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint would probably be perfect for Bobby's Kitten, at least at this point in his career. Maybe his connections will give it a try!

I'm curious what you thought of Joseph O'Brien's ride on Australia in the Irish Champion Stakes. I thought perhaps it was a bit over-confident, given that Australia was kept wide and without cover throughout the race. Do you agree?

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby's Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

Pedigree Ann — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:19:28 GMT

As I posted on the Australia blog, Bobby's Kitten seems to be more Forestry than Kitten's Joy and the long stretch run at Woodbine found him out. Should do okay on 7f infield turf courses. Ought to try the hill at SA; good mile form with speed often indicates a good 'hill' prospect. BC turf sprint coming up...,

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby’s Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

Pedigree Ann — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:33:06 GMT

It was a GB-import benefit at Woodbine today. Sheikzayedroad and Trade Storm don't even try in Group 1s at home they are so out-classed, but here in North America, hey, they can be G1 winners, too. Not to mention the Sands Point yesterday. Got a Euro-raced filly who can't compete in group races in your country? Bring her to the US and she will have black-type in no time.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby’s Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

-Keelerman — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:23:05 GMT

Well, it looked like Dorsett was starting to make a move on the turn, but he fizzled in the stretch as Trade Storm split horses in the final furlong and held off a late run from Kaigun in the Woodbine Mile. So after coming to the conclusion that the English shippers in the Northern Dancer and Woodbine Mile weren't going to win either race, they ended up sweeping both. Oh well. :)

I thought Bobby's Kitten gave a good account of himself in finishing third. He set a decent pace given the ground conditions, and held on admirably throughout the long homestretch. That was definitely a step in the right direction! With more maturity, I still believe he could become something very, very special.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby’s Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

-Keelerman — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:10:40 GMT

Little Bill;

Good luck with Silver Freak! With eight minutes to post time, Bobby's Kitten isn't looking as appealing as he did initially -- he's dropped from 15-1 on the morning line to 5-1 in the wagering, and he will actually be carrying 117 pounds, rather than 112.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby’s Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

Little Bill — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:03:37 GMT

One more swing. WO 11) Silver Freak.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby’s Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

Little Bill — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:32:06 GMT

No excuse for the 9.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby’s Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

Little Bill — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:07:02 GMT

WO 9) 9

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby’s Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

Little Bill — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 19:16:31 GMT

WO 6) 2 Reporting Star. Maybe he can walk them around this time.

re: Woodbine Mile: Can Bobby’s Kitten Beat Older Rivals?

KY VET — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 03:29:11 GMT

If you were starting an nfl football team.......had 1st pick......ANYONE..........the pick should be..............RUSSELL WILSON!!!!! SUPERSTAR!!!!!