TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Plod Boy Phil — Thu, 25 Sep 2014 20:14:14 GMT

Hello Mike -

Things are good. Hope all is well with you.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Mike Relva — Thu, 25 Sep 2014 15:41:29 GMT

Phil

How's it going? Agree with your comments regarding Game On Dude.I'm a fan of his,but he's not the same having had some tough races.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Plod Boy Phil — Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:22:07 GMT

Coldfacts -

* Your level of intelligence was not questioned or maligned. The voids in your handicapping skill set were. The limitations listed are based on my observations from scanning two years of your posts. It took me 10 minutes to compose.

* Those compelled to make unsubstantiated claims of cheating to explain race results are often the same gamblers seen picking tickets up off the floor.

* The final sentence used the phrase 'best of (racing) luck', and clearly had nothing to do with your day, or well being.

And finally, why you would choose to post your excessively long rebuttal next door in Keelerman's room is something only you can explain. It is out of context there.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Coldfacts — Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:28:36 GMT

Plod Boy Phil,

I had decided I was not going to provide any meaningful response to your critique of my limitations but I think it would be a disservice to you considering you went to great lengths to compile critique.

Was such a critique necessary after my disclosure that I am a Dish Washer? As you are aware such a job requires very little technical skills and very little education. What exactly did you expect from a Dish Washer engaged in a desperate quest for attention while using self-glorification as a medium?

I have no problems with either appraisals or my appraisers. I expect and have become accustom to brutal appraisals as my views, theories and provocative questions are perceived to be driven by ignorance. The way in which your critique was structured leaves very little doubt that you have very little regard for me. You are obviously a very bright individual with superior intellect and devoid of limitations and therefore well positioned to expose my limitations and by extension the wide spread ignorance represented in my submissions.

I a recent submission you cited that the Travers winner’s performance earned a downgrade. The reason for the downgrade was expressed in the jargon connected to the evaluation system you operate. With you superior intellect and proven system, you felt confident enough to make such a disclosure despite the historic nature of V E Day’s victory. The factors used in arriving at V E Day’s downgrade, no doubt resulted in an upgraded for the last place finisher Bayern and consequently his NTR in the P A Derby was to be expected.

From a dish washer’s perspective V E Day earned a major upgrade. This was determined with extreme ignorance of the parameteres used in your evaluation system. My limitations do not allow for the recognition of track variants and other factors that impact performance.

A horse that contested two 9F races in a span of 23 days on two different surfaces, then wins Saratoga’s most prestigious race for 3YOs < 30 days later, while defeating 4 multiple graded stakes winners, in what was its graded stakes debut secures downgrade for the performance. You do not need Jack Nicholson to tell you to Go Sell Crazy Somewhere else.

You are of the opinion that Bayern, dismal performance in the Preakness and Travers that were followed by the demolitions of the opposition in the Haskell and PA Derby were attributable to track variant and other factors in operation on the respective days. Well, that might be one reason but there are obviously others and if his performances inconsistencies are questioned, it does to expose limitations or highlight ignorance. The question I posed regarding the track and stakes record performances of Bayern, GOD and Feb Biz off poor performances and a lengthy lay off, I consider legitimate. It is unprecedented that 3 horses from one stable can set records with similarly poor effort in their previous races.

We all make predictions that do not match with reality. Why state the obvious? I suspect with your intellectual superiority your predictions are always spot on.

Thoroughbred racing is just one of the sports I follow. My views are sometimes non-traditional and provocative. One would not expect an individual who views himself as intellectually superior, to allow the views and positions of one so low down on the food chain to expose your limitations. Your critique of me was exclusively based on the views I have advanced and my positions held. You have exposed your limitations by concluding that said views and positions define the person I am. Such is the profile you have developed that despite your intellectual superiority, you were incapable of rational thinking and have instead embraced hatred and contempt. Such is the intensity of the dislike you have developed for me, you have declare that if you paid me the common courtesy of wishing me good day, you would be lying. One can only infer from such a declaration that you wouldn’t be concerned in the least if a fellow contributor was the subject of a misfortune on a given day. What manner of man allows himself to achieve such a level of unprecedented bitterness over views regarding sporting issues?

My limitations are easily attributable to my lack of intellect and ignorance. To what do you attribute yours?

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Coldfacts — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 19:14:56 GMT

Plod Boy Phil

Thank you.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Plod Boy Phil — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 19:04:57 GMT

Coldfacts -

* You have limited understanding of form cycles, even at the most rudimentary level.

* You have limited understanding of the impact of pace, flow, and or bias on final time, and more specifically, on the performances of individual horses in a particular race.

* You have no understanding of track variant and the role it plays in final times and specifically in new track records. As an example, see Sunland Derby Day 2013.

* You have limited understanding of the negative effects of peak efforts on fast horses. On that note, quality horses such as Game On Dude, Will Take Charge, and Palace Malice ran not only a single race in which they exerted maximum effort, best rather carried top form for extended periods of time. In the case of Game On, he was 7 yrs old with several years of laying it on the line. Slow horses that go through the motions are less prone to physical damage.

And finally, to take credit for the 'prediction' that Dude would not win again is just plain silly. You've made an endless number of predictions on these forums that have been wrong on a variety of levels. Perhaps next time you decide to pull an excerpt from a correct guess, you should include some that were laughable. You know what they say, throw enough on the wall and some of it is bound to stick.

I occasionally close with 'best of luck', but in your case, I'd be lying.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Mary Zinke — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 03:37:32 GMT

Coldfacts, seriously get on the calracing account. Dude was beaten in the San Antonio after that waste of a jockey duel using the former(2012) workmates, Blueskies and Dude, to burn each other out, making way for a fifteen minutes of famer to upset. Then came the SA H'cap. In The Gold Cup, later on, Stevens could not hold Fury.(p.s., can't believe he's coming back, again) In the Pacific Classic I have no idea what the S.American was doing. None of these wastes wound up being to the benefit of a stablemate.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Mary Zinke — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 03:30:50 GMT

Coldfacts, Fed Biz loves that Del Mar main track and he is even turfy. Check out his turf efforts. Really, he's good on three surfaces, but that poly at Del Mar is probably his best surface. Goldie is 4 now and bested Fed Biz, quite nicely too. Why would a nice 3 year old not progress at 4? I was hoping Fed Biz might try a turf race again. Not sure what will replace the Citation 8.5fT stakes, but something like that. You have these different ideas and conspiracies. How hard would it have been for Fed Biz who is rather a "closer" to catch the early speed on BC Day 1 last year? Plus, dirt may be his number 3 surface. Bayern as lone speed, either by entries or as race plays out, will be dangerous. This is not rocket science, as they say. No offense, but set up a calracing free account. Watch it every racing day, SoCal races(or you can switch to GGF now and then if you like) , watch it for years. Get to know the Calis. Because, imo, so far , you are way off base. It's like you don't even know Fed Biz.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Coldfacts — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 02:36:21 GMT

Mary Zinke,

Brilliant training and conditioning or performance enhancing cocktails!

Fed Biz – Finished 6th in Breeder Cup Mile and returned from 9 months off the romp in the San Diego en route to new track record.

Game On Dude – Finished badly beaten 4th in SA Gold Cup and returned to repel all challengers en route to new stakes record in Big Cap. Fastest time recorded in a 10F, G1 race in SA in 42 years

Bayern – Finished last in Travers and returned to romp in the P A Derby en route to new track record.

The above is unprecedented. Trainer Baffert is good but not this good. He is making other trainers look like amateurs. Should there be an investigation of this stable?

Fed Biz was beaten in his last start. If the above trend continues expect him to record either a new stakes or track record. Fed Biz must be the horse to beat in the Awesome Again and not Shared Belief.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Mary Zinke — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 19:38:17 GMT

Do you know how little value I put on negative comments? Tell me who is going to win. Of far greater value to me. And, no, I don't think you're crazy, Coldfacts, but then I may not be the best judge.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Coldfacts — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 17:44:32 GMT

Mary Zinke,

I predicted GOD would not win another race. Why? Do you think like many that I am crazy? Did GOD win another race? Only someone confident of their assessment of a performance would dare to make such a prediction.

You are quick like others to cite accusation without proof but have conveniently ignored fact that my prediction was correct.

The average thoroughbred enthusiast is incapable of recognizing when a performance is out of the ordinary. Such performances are invariably followed by sub-standard ones and gradual loss form. This is a direct result of the damage done to the animal.

I do not considered myself an average thoroughbred enthusiast. I have invested a lot time researching and compiling records most would find uninteresting

I certainly do not need a reprimand over accusations without proof when my prediction comes to pass.

That animal is not assured of longevity.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Coldfacts — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 17:23:28 GMT

Matthew W,

Do you have any idea of the number of horses that have died subsequent to being retire from Todd Pletcher's stable. I have a list that I have never shared and it keeps growing

The latest addition is Intense Holiday. There are a lot of categories that I keep records on that the average punter does not.

Speedy Bob and Todd Pletcher are high octane conditioners who with their band of vets are capable of getting horses to grow wings.

Time will validate my claims.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

mz — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:44:28 GMT

Ya know what? Am I paranoid or should everyone just ignore everything I ever say? Bayern smoked them but I think we didn't see the real CC in that race.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Matthew W — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:42:46 GMT

Cold facts I did know about the deaths and subsequent investigation. Years ago a smug trainer I'll call the Utah Kid was claiming 10k platers, returning to the track in ten days throwing 101 Beyers for 16k and paying $3.20, I told everybody and anybody it wasn't natural and it wasn't, but whoa there, if you're going to go that route naming names, then get ambiguous naming the "particular substance", I think is unfair to the sport and unfair to Bob, whom I never particularly liked until his heart attack---Bob is changed, markedly, as far as his personality goes, he has shed that smarter than everybody else attitude he used to carry, he is more down to earth and I like the man he has become, at least the outward man. As for the unnatural nature of Game On Dude's race, I disagree with you there, he ran that race before, many times, he ran a race that Will Take Charge and Mucho Macho Man could not, he took WTC out of his comfort zone, and, lastly, using your own logic, why, then, if the race "damaged" the other two, couldn't it have also took something out of The Dude? the Dude was one of those horses that could go fast and last, like Skip Away, for that reason alone I call him great--and he had heart.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Mary Zinke — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:39:29 GMT

Coldfacts, Wrong blog. Take it up with the stewards, except that you have no proof. Only accusations.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Coldfacts — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:11:19 GMT

Matthew W,

Speedy bob's stable was under a major investigation when five of his horses died. Subsequent to the investigation he reportedly stop using a particular substance.

He has been cited for drug violation in the past. If you give Speedy Bob a turtle to train he will get it to work 5/8 in 57.

If you believe its only Lasix being used on these horses I have a bridge I would love to sell you.

I have seen track record performances before and have not concluded that the particular horse was juiced. Let me reiterate, no 7YO showing such poor form turns up and runs that fast naturally.

The 4YO Will Take Charge has not been has not been the same horse since is relentless pursuit of a 7YO whom he had defeated in their two previous meetings. Mucho Macho Man retired without making another start. Any horse that was close the pace that day was toast as GOD was carting high octane fuel.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Coldfacts — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:55:13 GMT

Matthew W,

Game On Dude trainer is no angel!

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Mary Zinke — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:45:00 GMT

Thanks for dropping the odds on my pick Candy Boy. Figures.

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Matthew W — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:06:23 GMT

I am guilty of having called Chromey Chrome's breeding "nothing breeding", my opinion. Three important factors in a horse are:bloodlines, confirmation and quality of parents as race horses, and I have almost always considered the quality off parents to be the #1 important factor---that is why this son of an 8k plater will fetch 30k in his initial season, and with his regal looks I think that'll be a bargain!

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Matthew W — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:06:18 GMT

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

Matthew W — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:00:16 GMT

I'm out of the loop anymore regarding racing happenings, Mike Revla I was saddened to hear of Game On Dude's retirement. Not an all-timer....but a truly GREAT horse, he had many huge performances, as for there being a doping scandal, (cold facts) man that's an enormous reach, after all the 2014 Big Cap was run on a freeway, and while his race was huge, it wasn't any bigger or better than his 2013 Big Cap---he will be missed! A race I will always remember, perhaps the best race of this young century, was that Pacific Classic, where Acclamation out headed Twirling Candy, with The Dude right behind those two--why the retirement? Injury? He's a gelding, and they probably didn't want to drop that great gelding down the class ladder, in that case BRAVO! So hard for a speedy fighter type to age and lose said speed---John Henry evolved from a front runner to stalker to closer, but that's the difference between great and all-time great---methinks The Dude was great...

re: TimeformUS Weekend Stakes Play -- The G2 Pennsylvania Derby aka The Return of California Chrome

mz — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 15:32:00 GMT

Any thoughts on why they don't just keep Bayern at a mile or less and have him win Champion Sprinter this year? I think they are still trying for 3YO champion but who knows?

I like Candy Boy too (I just like Candy Rides) and I like Protonico.

Good luck to all.

(And jeeze, I knew it was coming but GOD's retirement is still a kick in the head. Hope he has a nice, long, lazy summer-in-the-pasture life.)