Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

Wanda — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:10:10 GMT

Blender in answer to your question. The first one I raised sold as a broodmare for paint horses,the second one lives in retirement at my inlaws. They built a barn just for him and found him a buddy for company.My sister-inlaw goes out every morning and feeds him carrots before she drives to town to go to work. Thanks for asking.

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

Wanda — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:52:56 GMT

Sorry guys I'm not going to debate this after today. I'ts my opinion and I don't believe people should breed the odd racehorse if they are not commited to spending money and doing it the best they can do. Breed to produce a racehorse not some ill-bred,crooked legged,no heart mare that doesn't make a dime then turn around and breed her to a cheap stud with no pedigree or race record. That's what I object to. All those foals that don't get a good home,what happens to them? I've seen people who love everything they raise but they don't worm them get their teeth done or trim them.If you are going to raise these kind then be prepared to look after them properly and not sell them for 500 bucks to someone who can't afford to keep them. That's what bothers me,everyone has good intentions but the bottem line is there's to many unwanted racehorses out there and they all don't get saved.

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

Blender — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:42:48 GMT

Wanda, Did you break even or make money breeding "a cheap cheap mare to a cheap cheap stallion,which I did twice.I got lucky and the second one made 100,000 bucks lifetime."

Why condemn others from enjoying horses like you did? Do you still own the horses you bred?

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

Wanda — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:33:13 GMT

What is a cheap mare/stallion? By nothin out of nothin.Produced nothin or sired nothin.And I'm pretty sure if your a backyard breeder you ain't paying 35G's for a yearling at F-T Kentucky.

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

KAB — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:08:56 GMT

I waited and then listened to all three parts of the video in one session. I then listened again. It reminded me of the children's game, "Hot Potato", where no one wants to get caught holding the object when the music stops.

All had reasons & solutions for/to the problem of thoroughbred stamina and soundness. It appears that no one found problems within their own realms of the business, and the solutions for any problems also resided within other then their own areas of the business.

This is not to say that any of the problems mentioned were not real, or that any of the solutions suggested were not good. This is to say we all must see and admit to the problems upfront in our own areas of the business.

The problems are multifaceted, but we each must address the problems we have helped create. When we have solved our individual contributions to the problem, then we can address or put pressure on the other areas that continue to bring about problems.

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

ArchDandy — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 22:59:08 GMT

If in other countries they have more turf races and longer races...then the only reason to breed for this here is to make those races exist here. I have seen hundreds of what might have been good turf routers end up in claiming dirt sprints because they cannot win....and have no races to be run in to succeed

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

UCLinden — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 22:06:55 GMT

I'd like to say, it's nice to see various comments from everyone. Yes, you do care.

There's something though that is on my mind. I'm sure most of you know of the various entertainment venues that exist ...... whether it is professional sports , the men's and woman's golf associations , and yes , even the WWE ( wrestling ). All of these are able to draw substantial attendance.

What do you feel are the factors why horse racing does not draw large crowds, with the exception of The Triple Crown, Breeder's Cup, etc ?? What do you feel horse racing should do , look into , in order to have people come to the track ?? What are we lacking ?? Does horse racing need a better marketing program ??

On any race day , what happens ? The horse's are brought to the paddock , saddled , parade around the walking ring and head to the starting gate. The race is completed, the winning horse comes to the winner's circle, the winner's photo is taken , horse heads to barn. What if we change that and give the public an opportunity to take photos of winning horse ( Grade 1 races only ). After winner's circle picture is taken, the horse is then taken back on track, where the public can take their own photo's. People take picture's of their favorite ballplayer, why not a race horse ? Give the fan's something to connect to ..... something at no cost ... show our appreciation to them.

It's just an idea ....... what's yours ???

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

Neon Green — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:27:35 GMT

outcross23 nobody with business sense would enter a horse in the FTK sale if there was no market for it! And what is wrong with dropping a stake horse to get a check? Haven't you heard the adage "Put your horse in easy company?"

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

Neon green — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:05:34 GMT

Wanda, What is a cheap horse? Is it a yearling filly that somebody paid 35 thousand for that ultimately could not win 3 thousand and got sold for $750 before she turned five. Is this cheap? Did the person who bought her as a yearling think she was cheap? Did the person who paid $750 think she was cheap? What would Wanda do with her?

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

Garrett Redmond — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:31:39 GMT

Many interesting points of view, but it seems clear most do not have any practical, hands-on experience or money invested directly in the different sectors of the business.

Look at comment from WWSTP. In short,it says:" Breeders breed for MONEY ... that kind of GREED needs to stop." Tell us, WWSTP, do you work for MONEY ? Therefore, by your own definition, are you GREEDY? If anybody wants to earn a living, it must be for money. If WWSTP lives on inherited wealth, then working for money may seem greedy!

Why the rush to blame veterinarians for the 'crisis'? A vet cannot medicate a horse except at the request of the owner or owner's agent. So, if an owner is upset by bills, it is his/her own fault. It is amazing what owners will cheerfully pay and what they will complain about. Example:

Horse is a bit "off", so trainer asks vet to look it over. Vet examines horse and recommends two weeks off training - just stall rest. The vet sends a bill for $50 for his time and expertise. The owner complains about a bill for "just looking". Consequently, many track vets do not charge for such exams. More likely, most owners/trainers want to run a horse, so rest is not welcome. If pressed, vet may say, "You could give him XXX twice a day for three days and keep him going, especially as the owner expects him to run next week." Trainer says "OK", and the owner gets a bill for $100. Tell me, who made the decision, better $100 for medication than $50 for just looking?

A real problem is too many "trainers" are sure they know more than any vet. So they want to prescribe.

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

Wanda — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 15:54:43 GMT

I see lots of comments that make perfect sense on this blog. It all boils down to the same thing no race day meds.It's time to stop this practice and make a level playing field. Maybe then we will see a return to the days when mares are bred to produce a racehorse, not a sales horse. One comment about the "little guy" breeder. Nobody has any business breeding a backyard racehorse and that includes me. By that I mean a cheap cheap mare to a cheap cheap stallion,which I did twice.I got lucky and the second one made 100,000 bucks lifetime.There's to many stallions standing at stud and to many cheap mares producing useless racehorses.I'm going to catch hell for saying that but I still stand by what I say.So where do all these animals go to when they don't pay their way? I get to read about it in the paper,horses left to starve etc.That bothers me the most.All those people that "love horses" and their animals haven't been wormed in two years or had their feet trimmed in a year that makes me sick. Sorry for being somewhat rude but it's how I see it.

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

pamale — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:49:22 GMT

many excellent comments on this board. what it tells me is that finally this industry is recognizing that it has huge problems and those problems need urgent attention.

i agree with uc linden on the need for a central, guiding regulatory authority a la the nfl, nascar etc. the current state of the industry cries out for one strong hand, not 38 weak hands as we have now, with 38 different drug regimes and the penalties handed down for infractions so wildly inconsistent (mostly they amount to nothing as trainers continue to train through suspensions via proxies etc.) that they are ineffective. the current splintered structure - with stakeholders at war with each other - is a recipe for extinction. an empowered central racing authority enacted by congress with full co-operation of the 38 racing states, would be better placed to address problems which to me seem overwhelming and insoluble at this time.

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

outcross23 — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:26:56 GMT

Dear Folks,

Thank you for input on this very pivotal matter regarding the future of our beloved sport. I have been in the industry for ten years, and have noticed that the dynamic of claiming races have changed dramatically since racinos have made it profitable for "cheap horses" to earn livings for less than expert trainers. It is not uncommon at Charles Town to see a horse that ran in a state bred stakes, run for 4000 next out. It is more important to train to the condition book than to allow the horse to let us know when their ready to run. Too many racing days and an abundance of cheap horses have made a reward out of mediocrity.

My next point is this. What qualifications are needed to become a sire. It seems the Thoroughbred industry has 2 qualifications. A farm, and a set of testes, thats it. How can we create guidelines for the stallion book, without seeming snobbish for exclusions. If we look at other breeding industries, most have inclusion criteria as decided by industry leaders. Our industry it seems as the leaders are the ones pushing brillance down our throats. I challenge anyone to find more than 10 horses from the FST yearling sale that just finished that are free from Northern Dancer and Raise A Native.

My endnote,regarding the data in the iron horse study, did anyone notice the diversity of sire lines in the 60-70 and 70 and 80, then look at the 90s and 00, the commercial market came in and drastically changed the apparatus for owners to obtain horses. Gone are the days of Tartan, and Calumet. Here are the days of free agency and decline of horsemanship.

Thank You

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

Racefan66 — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 03:39:12 GMT

Was there ever truely a day when horses ran on hay, oats, and water or are we just kidding ourselves by painting the old times with that brush? They just proved that the great Phar Lap died of an arsenic overdose... likely from the arsenic tonics that were commonly administered. Perhaps the tonics and "medical procedures" (pin-firing, etc) from older times don't compare in their damage to the breed as we attribute to the supplements, drugs, and surgeries currently in use, but I'd be interested in a study to evaluate what types of things have been used to improve performance over the course of racing history.

re: Sound Off - by Dan Liebman

Mary Kohn — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:14:14 GMT

The industry data has to be more accurate and reliable. The Equibase chartcallers need to be trained so all the charts match what all the racereplays show. They need to be able to report if a start was good for all and not overlook all the bumping. Take the time to put it in the chart notes.

In the Equine Line reports the mare progeny has to be accurate as to number of foals by a certain stallion. The consumers of the data need to be able to call in corrections. Right now you can't call in corrections if you notice an error, the Equibase data is deemed to be provided "as is." Data and statistics are only as good as those who collect it. If the Industry owns the data, lets make sure it remains accurate.