Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

blind date — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:42:19 GMT

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re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

carla — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:52:05 GMT

While I think the Classic should play in the role of HOY. I do not think it should be the only thing that HOY should be revolved around one race. I think it should be judged over the year of racing and not to mention the competition range. So far this year out of the horses that have been mentioned I think Zenyatta so far stands above, where she wins the BC this year I think her record stand alone especially if the only races she looses is the Classic. I think taking into account the surface plays a big part. A lot was said since Rachel didn’t race the Classic last year; had it been at Churchill I think we would have seen Rachel and maybe not Zenyatta…….Some horses like a type of surface; problem with Santa Anita it tends to be more of a non conventional dirt surface so how can you condemn a horse that is a true dirt horse not wanting to run on a favoring grass horse surface? As for the comment of Skip Away vs. Favorite Trick, for HOY, my personal feeling is that no 2yr old should be HOY. All but one 2yr old became great as a three year old. I think many of the best 2yr old do not race until 3; maybe it’s not the “jinx of the BCJ winner not winning the Derby the following year its more that many two year old are not developed yet.

Another is racing quality. Should a horse that wins 19 in a row over Zenyatta but has raced allowance company does that initial that horse to be HOY? So I believe the company of grade one races should play into the role of HOY.

I was a RA fan for last year still love her I also loved Zenyatta too. But I felt that RA was a bit better last year and with what she did so deserved HOY. Personally I think it should have been a tie

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Frank — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 06:52:04 GMT

There are two things in common with both Zenyatta and Blame.

First, Regal Ransom beat Blame in the Super Derby - and Zenyatta clobbered Regal Ransom in the Classic (finished 8th)

Second, Blame beat Einstein in a photo finish in the Clark - This race came after Einstein finished 11th (and next to last) in the Breeders Cup Classic.

Length of Stretch:

Del Mar: 919 ft

Santa Anita: 990 ft

Hollywood Park: 991 ft

Churchill Downs: 1,234.5 ft

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

SMTDL — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 18:18:49 GMT

The 2009 HOTY vote was correct but some still refuse to accept that while Zenyatta did win the biggest race of the year,she only had 4 other rraces ..all in California and all against Fillies. People keep using her overall record as a basis for their position that she was robbed.The year has to stand alone each time for comparison to what others did during the same time frame.Some even claim that HOTY is not important anyway.If it wasn't important,people would have stopped debating it by now. Personally I do hope Zenyatta wins HOTY this time.She is certainly a great horse and deserves that distinction.I just wish she had stepped up her campaign as promised.Good luck ...with traveling to Kentucky to face the best on dirt, she won'thave the edges she had from the last 2 years at the Breeder's Cup.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

duchess — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 06:35:24 GMT

For what it matters, I think that Zenyatta will live forever on in legend beside great names of American racing such as Secretariat and Man o' War. She is simply extraordinary, by any measure!

That said, I do not mind that Rachel Alexandra won the HOY in 2009.

Some food for thought (yes, I know that track conditions vary from year to year - and I am really tired tonight, so hope I got these right):

Rachel's KY Oaks time: 1:48:87

Blind Luck's: 1:50:70

Rachel's Preakness time: 1:55:08

Lucky's time: 1:55:47

Rachel's Haskell time: 1:47:21

Lucky's time: 1:49:83

Rachel's Woodward time: 1:48:29

Quality Road's: 1:50:00

(Not comparing her other stand out win from last year - the Mother Goose - with this year's winner, as I believe they watered down the distance between last year and this year).

She would probably be the outstanding three year old this year, too- and I am not knocking either the classy and game Blind Luck or Lookin at Lucky when I say this, as both are good solid individuals who I hope to see go on to be stand outs as older horses.

Rachel's 2009 season was something we might never see again from a three year old filly. Most female racers in NA rarely face males at all, and for a three year old to face them three times in grade ones - once against older males - is incredible (and it may well have taken its toll on her in 2010).

Just as we might never see an overall career like Zenyatta's.

If there were any justice in the world, they would have been co-champions last year.

I only wish we could have seen Zen in some different races. Not necessarily traveling, if her connections want her to promote California racing or if she does not travel well. Not even necessarily against males, because most females in NA rarely (if ever) face males. But I wish I could have seen her go at 1 1/2 miles. I think she would have been very special at that distance, and would have no problems handling it. And I wish I could have seen her on the grass, even if it had been an allowance race. Given how she handles the Pro-Ride at Santa Anita, she might have been wonderful on turf, and her pedigree suggests she could be very very very good on it. Alas, she was never given a chance...

My feelings for her are mixed as a result of her human connections. She is obviously a truly great one - perhaps (probably) the greatest NA mare of all time. I just wish she could have had a bit more of a chance to prove it...

(And by the way, no East Coast or West Coast bias here. I am a Midwestern girl who cheers for the good ones no matter where they come from).

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Bet Twice — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 23:08:09 GMT

Ranagulzion,

We'll have to agree to disagree on the value of an RA/Zen match up. IMO, the value of the match up ended when RA lost her first two races this year.

Appreciate the clarification about her going in the PE to substantiate her dirt form. Totally agree it would have been great to get another win on dirt and would have given them a better argument against the synthetic specialist criticism.

I trust Zen's connections when they say she doesn't ship well. I have had horses for years and some travel and some don't. If she went in the PE and dropped a bunch of weight coming home, she'd be up against it to make the BCC (see Looking at Lucky), their stated goal.

IMO, they picked the BCC because all of Zen's immediate caretakers can go with her and stay at Churchill (Nov is pretty slow on the West Coast and unlike Asmussen or Pletcher, Shirreffs doesn't have barns doted across the country). There's also only a finite amount of weight/conditioning she can lose over a week or so. If she comes unravelled coming home, they'll give her more time off before she's bred.

I agree she should have gone in the HGC but if she had won it and then opted for the Distaff, I think she would have been crucified (synthetic argument yet again).

I do think Zen's campaign has tarnished her legacy. Where I disagree is their motivation. I think her campaign has been geared around trying to keep a very big, very high strung horse together, not avoiding the competition. If you are ducking, why go in the BCC or try to meet RA, when that might have been meaningful, at Oaklawn?

Would they like to win HOY? Of course, but they are dealt the hand they are given - a bad shipper, synthetic tracks in SoCal, the Breeders Cup at SA for two year, QR's meltdown in the BCC gate, RA coming back poorly and competition that won't run against her. I think they've shown tremendous sportsmanship in sending her in the BCC and racing her at 6. How many of the dirt horses gearing up for the BCC will be racing at 6? My guess, not one.

I'm sorry about the disappointed racing fans, but planes go both ways and she'll be at Churchill in November. Suggesting she has a "padded" resume is ridiculous. Last time I checked she wasn't HOY and she didn't have ungraded races written for her. She's run exclusively in G1's this year. She can't help who enters. If Hollendorfer says, “You nominate to keep your options open, to cover all your bases, and if Zenyatta doesn’t run maybe you would run." How do you blame Zenyatta for "ducking" Blind Luck when her trainer says plainly, he'd rather run in the Beldame against RA?

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Mademoiselle Mondatta — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 21:47:23 GMT

Pedigree Ann,

You didn't do your homework, Zenyatta carried 129lbs (more than any other handicap horse male or female) in the Vanity TWICE ('08 & '09). It is clear you prefer to live in the past comparing a MUCH sturdier breed of TB to today's horse so handicaps cannot be what they were then otherwise our ranks would be loaded with the likes of Ta Wee, Forego, Round Table, etc. Comparing the PAST to the present is like comparing apples to oranges and we have the breeders who shoot for speed to thank for that! If they had continued to breed for the classic distances then maybe we would see the handicaps you crave. Until then maybe it would be cool for you to quit denigrating WHAT WE HAVE in favor of TRYING to compare them to pedigree standards (on paper) LAST century. They don't race on paper and we have only the human breeders to thank for WHY the handicaps aren't what they used to be. I'm just saying......

Ranagulzion,

I think the match-up between Blind Luck and Rachel Alexandra will be a good one. While they are leaning towards the Distaff with Rachel, I think they are still considering the Classic for her as well so it's possible that a Rachel/Zenyatta/Blame/Quality Road/Looking AT Lucky/Euro match-up may just be int he works. If WOULD prove to be the race of the year for sure regardless of WHO won!

:-)

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Ranagulzion — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 04:45:28 GMT

BET TWICE,

I don't speak out of both sides of my mouth. For the sake of clarity and the records, I do not wish for the BCC field to be watered down in any way (perish the thougt), neither was I intending to suggest an easy path to HOTY honours for "Queen Zen". I was merely pointing out how a more enterprising campaign (venturing out of California to take on her arch-rival Rachel Alexandra at Saratoga or toppling the California "big boys" at Hollywood Park) could have "locked up" the much coveted HOTY title and given the connections more options, such as a possible "fan thrilling/farewell" Distaff match-up/rematch with Rachel Alexandra. In such a scenario I don't think that many fans would complain about an easy road for Zenyatta or about watering down the BCC, given that the Quality Road-Blame rematch will be a "thrilla in manilla" by itself.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

John — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 22:53:22 GMT

Stacy,

Please.

Zenyatta last year beat three Divisional Champions, three Eclipse Award Champions, beat the 2009 Breeders' Cup Ladies Classic Champion three times, beat Chile's Horse of the Year and multiple Grade 1 winning racemare Cocoa Beach, then beat the winners of 23 Grade 1 winners in the Classic.

And Stacy, like I abovementioned last year's Classic included the winners of 23 Grade 1 races not including Zenyatta. So far, between Blame, Quality Road, and Lookin At Lucky is a total of 10 Grade 1 wins. What are the other horses that can make up 13 Grade 1 wins just to match last year's field?

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Rachel O — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:52:08 GMT

Well, now, people have complained that Zenyatta hasn't faced top competition. Apparently Blind Luck's trainer wants no part of Zenyatta and has said so quite openly. He nominated BL to the Lady's Secret but will probably bow out because Z is running. Zenyatta can't make the others show up. Nor can John Shirreffs or the Mosses.

And for those of you who think Z is a synthetic specialist, she ran best on dirt in Arkansas.

Get real, people. She's the best there is.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Dakota — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:17:41 GMT

Sentinel,

Actually, I do agree with you. I would have much preferred to see Rachel with her old connections. We probably would have seen her in the BC Distaff (as she'd already had a win on synthetic) and she'd likely be a happier, more successful horse this year, too.

To everyone who unequivocally stated that HOY is based on the best campaign: Read the third paragraph in Mr. Shulman's blog. It's not that cut & dried.

Zenyatta didn't have just "one good race" last year. She was undefeated in four other races, three grade 1s and a grade 2. She not only became the only filly/mare to win the Classic; in doing so, she beat Personal Ensign's 13-0 mark.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

UCLinden — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 19:39:39 GMT

I'm sure most , if not all of you here, have watched Zenyatta run. To watch her running style will answer , I think ,most of your questions about why her connections make the decisions they do. I picked up on it long ago. There's a reason why she sits in the back and comes from behind , and its not just " thats her style ".

If her connections take a certain course , so be it , the sky's ( $$$ ) the limit when she is bred. You protect your investment and wait for the return.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

dinkydiva — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 19:35:26 GMT

How can anyone knock Ruffian? That would be like knocking Big Red! Who knows what could have been with her, but, we saw what she did!!

Rachel: I agree, she reminds me of Both Big Red's!! Her stature, stride, elegance, size, etc.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

DJ — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 19:34:53 GMT

the BCC should be the most important race in deciding HOY because only the best go in that race. There's lots of other big name grade 1 races during the year, but they often only draw one top notch horse whos able to win easily, like QR in the Woodward. The BCC's the only race where all the best come together and nobody has it easy, so that's where the champion should be determined.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

randy h — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 18:22:21 GMT

Once again Z has taken a safe route not leaving Calif. Yes she is a great mare maybe the best of all time so why not go to New York? She ships well track surface dosen't seem to matter so why not? Back in the day great horses ran all over the country and 10 to15 races a year. Or is the modern day TB so fragile they can't take it my .10 worth

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Ranagulzion — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 17:55:00 GMT

BET TWICE,

I agree with you that Zenyatta has nothing to gain at this point by heading to the Breeder's Cup Distaff. The "Zen-Rachel" match-up is dead. However before the PE it was still alive, and had it occurred, would certainly have been regarded as the race of the year thus far IMO. I am persuaded that a win there over Rachel Alexandra and Life At Ten (no disrespect to Persistently) would have catapulted her all time ratings into orbit because: 1) it would have been on Dirt against the top two dirt fillies/mares; 2) the presiige of winning a grade one at Saratoga scores big time; and 3) doing it in the Personal Ensign (named after another undefeated champion) would add to the value of her accomplishment. I think those considerations would weigh very heavily on the minds of HOTY voters for the remainder of the season.

Regarding what the big mare stands to lose, besides HOTY honours, by not winning the BCC, its the stigma of being just a Synthetic champ with a padded resume as well as the forgiveness of many connoisseurs of the game and frustrated fans.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Jordan — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:33:10 GMT

Jimmy,

Again. And I repeat again. Please seperate emotion from fact. We were all heartbroken that day Ruffian broke down.

But please, if you want to judge Zenyatta with one sets of standards (basically racing in one state and over one surface or distance) then you must apply them to others as I have mentioned.

Any other way is pure blindness to the fact or ignorance.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Pedigree Ann — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:13:35 GMT

129 lbs versus mares??? Gee, just 3 lbs over scale for the best mare ever? Whooo, how impressive is that. And this is AFTER she had won the BC Classic at wfa over males. After Ta Wee won the Fall Highweight (then a major sprint) under 140, she beat mares in a regular handicap under 142. Forego carried 136 and still ran down the Derby winner in the stretch. The object of a handicap is to give each runner a proper chance to win by giving the best horses more weight and the lesser horses less weight. With no 100 lb jockeys around these days (no 14 yo undernourished kids get licenses), if a 20 lb gap is indicated by form, it has to be 110 to 130, or even 112 to 132. And don't tell me that the worst horses in Zenyatta's races aren't 20 lbs her inferior. Track handicappers won't give the best horses the weights they deserve because they are afraid they won't show up, which means they are shortchanging all the other horses in the field. And you wonder why handicap fields are so small these days?

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Slew — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 14:27:10 GMT

Jordan: Take into account, the only horse in history as fast as Secretariat was Ruffian. That's enough for me.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Slew — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:13:04 GMT

It's a good blog, filled with a lot of hope. I do believe that last year, the biggest travesty was the Eclipse committee itself, who would not allow Co-Champions. No other horse came close to what the both ladies accomplished, and if ever a year screamed co-champion, 2009 was it. How many voters abstained because they wouldn't vote against either mare? Rachel A and Zen both earned it last year. As far as 2010 goes, I don't know what to think. We certainly have a big 4+...did everyone forget about LAL? I can't even pretend to know what's in the mind of the voters. The blogs are endless, and the debate rages on. For me, 18-0 is unbelievable and legendary. Whatever else happens this year...that record simply cannot be ignored.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Giddyup — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 12:48:00 GMT

The decision on who is the best horse each year is determined by people, who almost without exception, lost money at the windows because they couldn't pick race winners. I love that irony.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Stacy — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:58:03 GMT

I am tired of everyone saying that Zenyatta was robbed of HOY last year. Horse of the Year is decided by several factors: campaign, performance and competition. I think Zenyatta is a good horse but, aside from being undefeated, she ran a very boring and safe campaign beating the same horses that she beat the year before.

Voters were right in choosing Curlin over her in 2008 and Rachel over her in 2009. The Mosses have no one to blame for losing HOY last year except for themselves.

I am interested to see how she runs in the BC this year at Churchill against a far superior group than the horses she faced last year. Even if she wins the BC, if Blame or Quality Road finish on the board, then I think that HOY should go to one of them. Blame has run a hell of a campaign this year. If he wins the JCGC then I think he will be the leading contender for HOY. HOY is not decided on one race. It is given to the horse who performs the best that year beating the best horses and stepping up their game.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Rachel — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 10:53:07 GMT

LaurieK, those of us who love Zen but want her challenged UP to her greatness, we don't mind them wanting to keep her home, but she could have raced in a couple of choices against the boys...to me, she's the greatest race horse I've ever seen, she just hasn't been raced like the greatest. (and I've seen 3 triple crown winners and all that era)

...I think she's a female Man O'War...her look, her walk, her seemingly easy, huge stride...has she ever laid her body down, even in her close races? Has she ever been tired after a race, I mean really tired?

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

Jimmy — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 04:20:21 GMT

Jordan, that is an absolutely sick comment you made about Ruffian. There is no need to say something like that. You should really try to read about Ruffian, and then you will see how great she truly was. She set/tied speed records in 9 of 10 races, broke the track record at Belmont in her very first race (as a 2-year old filly!), and that summer, ran the fastest 6 furlongs ever for a 2 year old at Saratoga up to that date, which includes the likes of Secretariat, Man O' War, Native Dancer, and all the greats that had run there before. Ruffian was a horse that dreams are made of, and she was gone way too soon, but her brief presence on the track will be remembered forever. There is no knocking Ruffian.

re: Popular Vote - By Lenny Shulman

John T — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 03:20:50 GMT

My own personel view of why Zenyatta did not win horse of the

year after her historical win in the Breeders Cup Classic was because the race was run on an arificial surface.Which brings us to the age old question,a good horse should be able to win on anything.Zenyatta won her two races

on original dirt at Oaklawn Park in

a very impressive manner and indeed

she is still unbeaten as no one has

been able to lower her colours.If she does get beat in this years running of the Breeders Cup Classic

it will be because of a racehorse

with outstanding ability,not because of what she is,an outstanding mare who deserves to be talked about with the best of them.