Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

KYgirl914 — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:51:25 GMT

Everyone, for like maybe the last year i've been LDP, but since a new LDP has come along, to avoid confusion i'll be changing to KYgirl914, on this blog at least.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

needler in Virginia — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:32:59 GMT

No how, NO WAY, NOT EVER!! No match race, and certainly NOT the one proposed by the mattress king of Houston. There is no need for a match race....I was at Belmont in 1975 and remember THAT match race far too well. The connections for each of these Golden Girls have their agendas for their horses, and more power to them. WHO CARES which would win on any given day? I certainly don't. I'm just tickled to death they are racing, healthy, stunning the crowds with their looks and talent, and being looked after with care. All I really want to see is both retire sound. That's it!

As to a match race??? NOPE. Racing doesn't require a match race to present a better face to the general public; racing needs more healthy horses leaving the track when they are through with racing, NOT when they are forced to retire due to injury. So run on Zenyatta and Rachel........in each of your own ways you've given us moments to remember, and we're looking for more..............

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

LDP — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:41:08 GMT

to those clamoring for a match just go back and watch their races .it would be stupid of zenyatta's connections to play that game.zenyatta is a far closer RA is a filly with high cruising speed.a match would not prove who is the better horse but only who is the better match horse.honestly they are both great if they meet in a race fine but why a stupid match? what is the point?even in a regular race it would only be fair for a best of three on three different surfaces .

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

Pam S. — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:08:14 GMT

Barb,

I agree, it would be fun. I didn't go to the Cup last year, but did go when it was at SA in 2003. I, and maybe some other posters, would love to wish you a happy birthday this fall, so keep me posted on any plans or ideas!

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

Tracy — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:36:45 GMT

I agree with Draynay, RA vs Quality Road is far more exciting. Zenyatta is a Synth horse and RA is dirt, it is apples. and oranges

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

Suzy — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:46:27 GMT

Despite the fact that Rachel has already won over a synthetic surface they're still not going to California...

Regardless, a "match race" would be useless to determine who the better horse is because of their running styles. Obviously Rachel would win because match races are geared toward whoever can sustain their highest speed longer. Zenyatta is a late run horse...she can't and probably would be unwilling to sustain her speed for an entire race. Would I like to see them in a full race field together? Of course. Simply because it's fun to see the best compete against the best, not necessarily to find out who is better. The best horse on the day wins, it's not ALWAYS the best horse.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

Golden Gate — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:34:09 GMT

Yeah!! Zenyatta and Mike!!

I love Rachel Alexandra but I believe Zenyatta would prevail in the end. Just like she did in the Hirsch.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

LAZMANNICK — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:49:48 GMT

Yeah Alex

You needed Saturday's races to add to your little collection that ironically you brought up on Friday. Great foresight. That's 9 G-1 wins from 8 different horses. I’m still not overly impressed.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

Dee SIx — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:28:04 GMT

I would never want to see a "Match Race" between RACHEL and ZENYATTA, but who's going to face both of them in any race other than the Breeders' Cup? There's an old saying that "Great ones can run on broken glass". And after what I have witnessed RACHEL qualifies as Great and seems to handle any racetrack surface, wet or dry. Mr. Jackson's reluctance to run her on the synthetic surface at Santa Anita is derived from CURLIN getting beat last year in the Breeders' Cup at Santa Anita. But if CURLIN had more time to acclimate himself to the west coast and Santa Anita's racetrack I feel certain that the outcome would have been different. For he was a Great One. If only Mr. Jackson would send RACHEL to Santa Anita and watch for himself as she gallops and/or works over the track then and only then she he make a decision on her running in the Breeders' Cup. For she and ZENYATTA would draw the biggest crowd in Breeders' Cup history, both on track and TV viewers. Just think what THAT could do for our sport which is hurting so badly.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

barb — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:23:34 GMT

Pam S...You are right! I am planning on going to Santa Anita in Nov. It will be my first time to SA and my first live BC. I turn 40 on Nov 19th and am going as my b-day present to myself. It would be fun if those of us going could meet up somehow.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

afleetalexforever — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:53:05 GMT

Someone mentioned the Grade 1 winners that Rachel has trounced.

Here's the complete list

Grade 1 winners she's defeated

1. Gabby's Golden Girl

2. Flashing

3. Take The Point

4. Pioneer of the Nile

5. Summer Bird

6. Mine That Bird

7. General Quarters

8. Dream Empress

What an impressive resume.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

susan — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:14:41 GMT

Not Rachel Alexandra nor Zenyatta could ever hold a candle to Ruffian! She was and still is the best female racehorse ever!!!!!!!! Let the two of them write their own destiny. They don't have to "match up" to prove who is better, nothing good ever comes from match races!!!!!!! Rest in peace my dear Ruffian you will Never be forgotten!

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

Golden Gate — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 02:08:40 GMT

Hi,

I still think Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra should meet in the Apple Blossom along with other great fillies. I don't like the idea of an actual one on one match race because I believe they would try their hearts out to win since they are so competive and might get hurt in the process.

If some other nice fillies could be lured to compete with their excellent jockeys. I think it would be great. Also because both have been there before and the owners had a good time they might go for it.

Thank you afleetalexforever for correcting me on 06 Aug 2009 that the Appple Blossom is already a Grade I.

I was thinking if the Arkansas Derby which is a Grade II and thinking of that why is it a Grade II when so many horses that run in it use it for a prep for the Kentucky Derby?

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

LavasLegend — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 02:05:48 GMT

Oaklawn.

They have both ran on, and won there. It's dirt. It's neutral, but familiar and proven for both, at the same time.

Should cover all the bases for both camps, possibly excepting the fact that the Zenyatta people don't seem to want to move out of a 60 mile radius with their mare.

I do NOT think it should be a match race, as with their polar opposite running styles, it puts Zenyatta at a disadvantage (and I say that as someone who firmly believes Rachel would beat her if they faced off 10 times). But it needs to be a "fair fight" with both pace and closing advantage covered as best as it can be. Create a race, get the cash, fill it (if they can--who wants to face them??), and turn 'em loose. May the best one win.

As an aside, for those who think the two meeting is a BAD idea, you must be new to the sport. How ironic that once upon a time, FANS did not have to clamor; we had true horsemen, both trainers and owners, who set out with nothing more than a "My horse can beat your horse...and we'll prove it" attitude...now racing fans have been reduced to begging for it.

It's tragic, really. Somewhere, the late great Charlie Whittingham is laughing and pointing, and calling this "new gaurd" a bunch of wimps.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

MAJ — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 01:15:44 GMT

Draynay, your constant obsession with both BB and RA are totally bogus. Sure RA has faced the boys, but who has she run against? Give MTB an extra furlong and he would've beaten her. Until there is some real competition within the boys overall, Zenyatta doesn't have any motive to face them. The only good one right now is QR. And I've seen many of your other posts about how amazing BB was, when he never ran against any true competition either. It seems like there is always an excuse for the horse that you like when they don't do well. Afleet Alex went to his knees in the Preakness a few years ago and still won. I find it amazing that you are so quick to judge Zen and say she hasn't faced any good competition when your favorites haven't either. Furthermore, the comments you've made about Hard Spun in the past are totally off the mark as well. Honestly, HS wasn't a distant horse, and was pushed to far in many of his races. In my opinion, if not for being being pushed to early in the Preakness, he would've won. As LDP has said in the past, check your facts and start thinking about the things your precious favorites have done wrong before you critisize the others for making the same mistakes.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

LDP — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 01:10:06 GMT

Curlin would've won HOTY over Zenyatta last year even if he didn't go to the Classic. Certainly not by as much, but he would have won it. Tell me why voters would give the honors to Zenyatta who raced fillies all year long, going out of state twice when you have Curlin who wins at going everywhere. He defied the Dubai bounce, and Saratoga the graveyard of champions, is second in his only try on turf against grade one competition, and is unbeaten on dirt. That year he raced in grade one open company all year long and won. His wins included the Stephen Foster, at Churchill, the Woodward at Saratoga, the JCGC at Belmont, the Jaguer Trophy and DWC in Dubai. When you compare just that to Zenyatta's record, why would you not give Curlin HOTY. Also had he not gone to the BCC he probably would've gone to add the Clark to that list of wins. Again why would you choose Zenyatta over the reining champion who had a not only a winning season, but an outstanding season once again.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

MAJ — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 00:57:46 GMT

Draynay, how can you even say that Zenyatta isn't in the same league as QR and RA? She hasn't ever need to be pushed to get a 148 or better because her connections line her up against a bunch of fillies and mares who don't hold a candle to her. Until you see her be truly challenged and pushed against real competition, it's wrong to say she isn't as good as the other two. If she's beaten fair and square by those two (though I'm sad to say I'm not quite sure she'll ever be given the chance to win or lose against them) then you can say that she isn't as good, but until then, it's pure ignorance to make that statement.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

Pro-Ride — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 00:15:40 GMT

I see alot of "numbers" people in these posts.

People don't realize how much slower synthetic racing is when it comes to speed figures.

Numbers on dirt are always "much" higher than synthetic racing. This will always be a "fact".

This year Jess Jackson has shown the public that he has learned from the past.

Jess Jackson is ducking the Breeders Cup because he learned from Curlin's mishap (last year). All those speed figures and the best horse in the world faltered at the 1/8th pole, Curlin was absolutely winded. When Curlin, returned to his groom he was exausted (blowing "extremely" hard).

This mare will make the filly look like an absolute fool if she shows up at Santa Anita this year. In fact, the filly will have a hard time placing in the money. Speed or "tactical" speed is not what you want on this track. This Pro Ride surface is nothing like Keeneland, Turfway and many of the other synthetic tracks in California. It wil suck the life right out of you.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

Pam S. — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:36:42 GMT

Barb, thanks for the comment! I bet you're going to the Breeders' Cup this year too, am I right?

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

sweet terchi — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:32:32 GMT

Draynay, you finally posted something I agree with,(8/7..6:06pm, and in a unoffensive way.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

barb — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:00:11 GMT

If Curlin had skipped the BC Zenyatta would have won HOY. Jess Jackson knew that and that is why he went to Santa Anita.

Pam S...Great post!

Port Stanley...LOL!

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

LDP — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:24:13 GMT

Match races are not all bad, not every single one has ended in a horrible breakdown like Ruffians. Regular races probably have a high percentage of breakdowns than matches. Do we all remember Barbaro, Go For Wand, George Washington, Pine Island, Fleet Indian, and Eight Bells? All horses, broke down in a just a regular race. Saying this i am not in favor of a match between RA and Zen. Though a match would give my fav RA a clear advantage i want to see her win fair and square. This is also the reaso i don't think the Moss' should be allowed to enter a horse of their own as a rabbit into a race where the two meet. I think if Zen gets to run the way she likes to comfortably so should RA. Now if somebody else entered a horse like Munnings, Big Drama, or QR, where those horses all have different connections than Zenyatta, i'd be fine.

I saw somebody asked what grade one winners has RA beaten. She has beaten Dream Empress, POTN who is a two time G1 winner, MTB, and SB. Total she's beaten four. If you count the amount of Grade 2 winners then you get some numbers. She beat PC, twice, FF, and Munnings, just to name a few.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

Port Stanley — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 17:12:11 GMT

Since there are those that say that Zenyatta hasn't beaten anyone, and those that say that Rachel Alexandra hasn't beaten anyone. Does that mean that if they meet it will be meaningless who wins, since she will have beaten a horse who hasn't beaten anyone? :-)

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

keenelandcat — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:28:44 GMT

For those of us who actually witnessed the great Ruffian's breakdown, the word "matchrace" triggers terrible flashbacks to that awful day. No matchrace. The events of that day should NEVER be repeated. If they don't meet up sometime down the road, then we will all still have something to bicker over.

re: Great - Chel - By Dan Liebman

Mole — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 12:07:35 GMT

I think Rachel could have beat Curlin. I think she will be more famous in racing by the end of next year (providing she doesn't get hurt and continues to race as well as she is now)than Curlin. my opinion.