Detox

re: Detox

texas girl — Sun, 23 May 2010 21:33:17 GMT

Hopefully someone can give me some advice.I was recently given a race horse in really bad shape(just skin and bones).He is very high spirited and I think he would make a good horse.He is just

in really bad shape from the withdraw of steroids given to him.

Now im a horse lover by nature but still a little green in knowledge and couldnt see him being put down.What could i do to help him back to health without the need of steroids?

re: Detox

toxicologist — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:58:40 GMT

Why should ANY drug be allowed to give an athlete a "competitive" edge? This is a betting sport and a drug related "competitive edge" should be equal to fixing the outcome of a race; which is a felony. Trainers should be held accountable and prosecuted as such. Dutrow just got slapped AGAIN today! He is an example of how trainers will use and do anything to get the money at the expense of the horse! Has any trainer learned anything from their suspesions? No, they just get more creative with their mixtures!!! If we had a 3 strikes you're out rule you might get their attention because the current rulings are just slaps on the wrist. It has got to stop! It is time to ban ALL drugs if you want to clean up the sport as some drugs (like Lasix) can mask the use of other drugs; giving you another "competitive edge". A level playing field is no drugs, no exceptions. Takes the guesswork out of determining racing levels, etc. CLEAN AND SIMPLE!!!

re: Detox

Old School — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:01:29 GMT

I believe that steroids should be strickly banned in the US. I watch horses being trained daily that exercise and run on hay, oats and water. They do run on low dosages of lasix (10cc being a maximum prerace limit) and bute, however, they do not compete on steriods and they win races; large and small. It can be done and I'm proud to be associated with those who still train responsibly and truly "like" horses.

re: Detox

Billy D. — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:40:15 GMT

In response to Johnny and the matter of Lasix, all I do know about Lasix is it's an anti-bleeding dieuretic. I don't know about the pollution. I know in order to get on Lasix, a horse has to have bled at least in a race. I don't know about training though. The air might be cleaner in the country however I don't think pollution causes bleeding in a horse.

re: Detox

Johnny — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:57:28 GMT

Billy D, you mentioned Lasix, another medication that is not allowed in other countries. Someone once told me that one of the reasons for using Lasix on horses over here, is due to all the pollution. In other countries, training centers are away from the cities where the air is probably cleaner. Any truth to this?

All I know is I can't look at a list of race entries and not see the "L" under the medication column. Lasix, to my knowledge came into vogue in the late 80s. Before that, horses seemed to do just fine without it, were more durable, sounder, raced longer, oftentimes had little spacing between races, and many carried weight over distances of ground. I don't believe in overracing a horse, but I do think the animals were probably better conditioned and sounder, thus being better able to withstand the rigors of a racing schedule.

I know trainers often use Lasix because they think it's a competitive edge, right? But if everybody is using it, where's the edge? Why should a drug be used to give an athlete a competitive edge anyway? I thought hard work, training, sound nutrition, and also adequate rest, were supposed to do that. I'm not sure I also buy into the idea that without Lasix there wouldn't be any horses to run, because, again, the old timers didn't rely on Lasix.

re: Detox

Billy D. — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 00:16:37 GMT

I know your all going to think I'm crazy and old fashioned, however I think it should go back to the old days in New York when it was just "hay, oats & water." If a horse is sound enough to run clean then he shouldn't be running. By doing this you eliminating the possibility of illegal doping. The only race day medication I would allow is Bute, perhaps lasix. This wouldn't mask any weaknesses in horses as they race. Plus the tracks blew millions of dollars making racing surfaces safer, there should be no need for steroids. In my opinion Drugs only make the breed dependent on them thereby weakening bloodlines. This is in part why you see such short racing careers today. With the way purses are today you'd think horses would be racing until their 5 or 6. Horses raced more times a year 35 years ago when purses were a mere pittance compared to today. It's ashamed the owners have no guts to keep their champions racing to age 5 or 6 today. I'm no vet by no means but they didn't have all these options 100 years ago and they seemed to turn out some of the best horses in the first part of the last century. To digress a bit it's also ashamed to see some of our best bloodlines sold to foreign interest in the name of a dollar only to see their offspring race a few times per year, on the grass at that! The saddest day I had in recent memory was when Claiborne Farm sold Forty Niner to Japanese interest.

re: Detox

scott — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 00:42:41 GMT

Who said anything about being sick. Public perception and reality are two different things. Are you also against milkshaking? Is it really ok to give a sore horse bute? Now bute can cause many problems if misused also. In Kentucky, bute must be declared at the time of entry. Lets see all these so called great horseman, that don't run on bute. Oh yeah, they all do. So why is this legal? Why is lasix legal? Why is steroids illgal? Why is Amacar legal? Does the public pay any attention to this. The only reason this is bringing any attention, is the press wants you to. They don't understand it either. You give any good trainer $30,000,000 to go to the sales each year, any one of them can give you $20,000,000 back in purses. You do the math.

re: Detox

Stephanie — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 01:56:07 GMT

IF YOUR HORSE ISN'T EATING-DON'T GIVE IT STERIODS!!!! Sorry but if the horse is sick DONT INGORE IT AND LOAD THEM UP-FIND OUT WHAT IS WRONG!!! If they miss a work so be it. If someone is worried about the cost or loss of purse $ due to not being able to race-YOU MUST NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD THE CARE YOUR HORSE/INVESTMENT DESERVES!!!!!!!!

re: Detox

lespedeeza — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:55:32 GMT

I don't suppose we could breed sound, strong horses and then see, drug free, which one could run? Sounds like a level playing field to me, but it would require some horsemanship. The earlier comment about Tagg, et al being horsemen and that is the reason for their success was a direct hit on the truth.

re: Detox

Al London — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:32:38 GMT

It seems your expert Dr. Don Catlin has taken a negative position on the usage of steroids in horses but admits to knowing very little about the equine animal and how it is effected by the legal usage of the particular steroid. When we speak of true scientists, they gather facts and THEN come to conclusions. Catlin has it backwards. Was he hired to support the ideas of others who want a ban for their own political reasons?

re: Detox

Johnny — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:09:18 GMT

Anonymous, thanks for the reply. I strongly suspected they were banned in Europe, and if I'm not mistaken, Dubai, Hong Kong, and probably Japan also bans everything; but I wanted to be sure.

re: Detox

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 21:13:17 GMT

Johnny, to answer your question, yes, steroids are banned in Europe at any time and all other drugs are banned on race day. There are no "threshold" levels of anything - the horse is drug-free or it is running illegally. In France, a positive test for a steroid - any steroid at any time the horse is in training - will cost the offending trainer their license. And that's on first offense. So are they necessary? No. If a horse isn't eating, there's a problem that needs to be solved.

re: Detox

STEVE — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:51:04 GMT

If steroids and race prep medications cannot be banned,let's just take the trainers name off from the Race Program and replace it with the vets name and let the public decide which vets are the best trainers.

re: Detox

Johnny — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 04:15:17 GMT

Fine. You gave me an answer and that's what I wanted. I didn't outright say, ban steroids or don't ban steroids, I simply asked if other countries do, and if so, why don't we? So now, by your answer, the inference that I'm taking is that other countries don't race geldings. Correct?

re: Detox

Debbie — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:16:54 GMT

I absolutely do not understand how no one points to the huge difference in racing over human use, and that is the use in geldings. Geldings have very little natural testosterone of any kind -- and it can be argued that in certain cases to level the playing field when competing with colts NEED steroids. This is a very great difference. By all means, ban steroids in colts, horses, fillies, and mares, but I think a very good argument could be made for their occasional use in geldings.

re: Detox

YAMIL — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:39:28 GMT

I wasn't aware of the magnitud of this issue.. i wonder were will end.. are we facing the possiblity to see our beloved sport in a congress hearing?....

re: Detox

scott — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 03:46:32 GMT

I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT ANSWER FOR THE OVER SEAS RULES. BUT I WONDER NOT IF ANABOLIC STERIODS ARE ILLEGAL, BUT DO THEY TEST FOR THEM. YOU WOULD HAVE TO TEST FOR QUANTITY, NOT QUALITY OF A SUBSTANCE, AND THAT IS VERY EXPENSIVE. THERE ARE MANY THINGS AGAINST THE RULES, BUT WHAT IS TESTED FOR IS ANOTHER THING.

re: Detox

Johnny — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:59:02 GMT

I don't mean to be rude, but apparently nobody can answer the question of why other countries ban drugs, except us. I'll re-phrase the question to limit it to the current discussion of steroids.

Whether or not steroids have legitimate uses is irrelevant, if other countries ban them. So... do other countries in fact ban steroids? And if they do, can somebody please give me a reason why we shouldn't do the same?

Horse racing is international and if we're to continue to compete on a global scale, then the playing field should be level, don't you think? If we're using steroids over here and other countries aren't, is the playing field level? I don't think so.

re: Detox

3rd gen — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:41:21 GMT

one thing lacking is the lack of studies on geldings.in the us most runners are gelded .i used on occasion equipoise on my horses in limited amounts-it was good to get a knocked out horse going again in the feed tub and back to training with zest.horses are fragile in thier mind at times and when suffering a hard defeat can lose their heart this is more evident in geldings . but with this said i have seen gross overuse and think a ban is not unwarrented. it is sad the few abusers can take a usefull tool away.i think we need to restrict the vets to approved medication lists that can be carried onto racetrack grounds and any narcotics or drugs that are not needed be administered under supervision of the state vet.any violation result in disbarrment.

re: Detox

Johnny — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 05:04:24 GMT

I'm not a horseman, just a fan, but I love the sport and I want to know why other countries ban drugs, but us.

Can someone please answer me that?

re: Detox

some one who knows — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:25:10 GMT

As someone else who apparently knows,scott zeltt, commented steroids are a very useful tool and can be very beneficial without harming the horse in any way. The problem is not with use it is with abuse! Steroids just like a lot of other things are beneficial when used properly and harmful when abused. In humans Tylenol is one of those things; over use of Tylenol has lead to the need for liver transplants and even death. Should we ban Tylenol? No, but we should be educated about it not abuse it. There are a million ways to fix a race-a little bit of equipoise 36 hours out isn't one of them- believe me! The problem with the people pushing for the complete ban of steroids in racing is that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and they need to become educated by working in the actual training aspect of the racing business so they can see things for themselves before coming to these conclusions. As for young horses in training (yearlings and even early 2 yr olds) I do believe that there are probably no circumstances under which they should be given anabolic steroids. Their bodies are still forming and steroids will interfere with normal development. That isn't even about race fixing that's about getting big bucks in the sales ring.

re: Detox

scott — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:15:29 GMT

to the person who likes Service, Matz, Tagg,jones and ritchey, have never spent a day in their barn. Why does one vet spend OVER 1 hour in Ritcheys barn every day with a tray full of syringes. Unless you have been on the backstretch of Fair Hill, Del Park, Phila Park and other tracks, you really have no idea.

re: Detox

mm — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:47:27 GMT

nobody in the racing industry has the cojones to do a darn thing about cheating. it will only be stopped when the cruelty to animals groups get involved and start sueing tracks,trainers,vets,owners and organizations that are responsible.

re: Detox

anonymous — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:43:22 GMT

I have recently witnessed the abuse of steroids, specifically equipoise, in the use of young horses in training and I am now an advocate of steroid regulation. Horses on high levels of steroids are awful to deal with and sometimes dangerous to handle, which therefore puts anyone who handles these horses at risk. For those who say that steroids keep a horse's appetite up need to question why their horse does not want to eat. Believe it or not, drugs are not the only way to fix horses' problems.

re: Detox

C Bea — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:57:41 GMT

The lack of comments on this topic says a lot about the state of things in our Industry, everyone's afraid to say anything for fear of being black-balled by other Industry players. This is why things will only change from the outside in...the Feds will come in and force changes as our Industry lacks the character to "do the right thing".