Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Bob Z — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:50:15 GMT

Put a poll up on the home page..

Who do you think will win the Apple Blossom?

Rachel Alexandra

Zenyatta

By how much?

nose

neck

length

2 lengths

3 lengths

more than 3 lengths

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Slew — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:59:19 GMT

Gary...horses become great because they win more than they lose. Mine That Bird, as gamely as he competed the rest of the year...still seems to have more in common with Giacomo than with Rachel Alexandra. I admire the horse and his grit, I respect his connections, and I really have nothing bad to say about any of it. You however seem to have a lot of problems with anyone who states "He didn't win another race in 2009" when they're just stating a fact.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Bob Z — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:50:25 GMT

Here is one persons opinion on the date and timing of the Race of the Century...

www.youtube.com/watch

He has some good points...

Ideally this should have been over a weekend... but maybe this will be the only time they race so we should be thankful for that...

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Criminal Type — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:34:42 GMT

No matter when thise two beautiful ladies meet, it's going to be about money. Do you really think Jess Jackson is going to run his filly for 500K when he can run her for 5 million. HAHAHAHAHA! Not likely.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

dliebman@bloodhorse.com — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:26 GMT

I just thought about this if the race was run May 2 - a pick three with the Oaks, Derby, and La Troienne.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Deacon — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:17:38 GMT

I personally do not want them to race against each other. I see no good in the outcome, regardless of who wins. This race is becoming more about the connections then the horses. It seems like folks always want to see a beat down regardless of the sport. This race won't save "horse racing" it will only add to it's demise. It brings out the ugly in people, and their desire for blood. This race is not based upon friendly competition in the flow of the sport, it is predicated on politics, and

big egos.

The only time I ever cried because of a horse race was watching Ruffian break down. The memory of the race still brings chills up my spine.

Zenyatta and rachel have nothing more to prove, like good soldiers they did their duty to perfection. Turn them out to pasture and let enjoy their retirement, my God they have earned it.............

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Judy ~ Burbank, CA — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:31:08 GMT

While at Santa Anita on Saturday, I heard more than one racing fan friend say they are going!!

All I ask: What happens if there is bad weather? Weather has been a BIG factor in canceling races!! :-(

I pray both Queen Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra The Great stay fit and healthy. Come home safe from ALL of your races "girls"!!

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

carolyn — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:23:07 GMT

After the BCC, St. Trininans is just another drop in the bucket against Zenyatta.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

gary at rough creek — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:10:58 GMT

Slew,

Your logic could not be more flawed regarding why RA generated more "positive" press in early May relative to MTB's victory in The KY Derby. You say in part that, because MTB WOULD NOT win another race and RA WOULD go 8 for 8, that's why she generated more press...back in May???? What?

How could writers know what would happen the rest of the year? If they can, they really should be handicappers!

My point, in part, is enforced by what you write. You bring up the word "fluke" again in relation to MTB? You really want to go there? A graded stakes winning 2 YO champion, that goes on to win The KY Derby, come 2nd in The Preakness only because of 5 pound weight allowance, and come 3rd a neck in The Belmont, earning over $2,000,000 in the process? He then runs 3rd in a grade 2, but he was giving 11 pounds to the two horses that beat him. Slew...do you understand what weights are intended to do? They are intended to HANDICAP the better horse. MTB was better than his two rivals in The West Virginia Derby, he just came 3rd. He was the best horse in The Preakness too, he just ran 2nd. The fact that - strangely - last year was one of the few times when the weights being carried in races and the quality of the horses in those races was NOT thoroughly discussed, or hardly even mentioned, showed me that the horse writers dropped the ball. Why did they drop the ball? That's an interesting question, but that they can be allowed to drop the ball is disturbing.

Read any credible book which discusses the best Thoroughbred race horses of all time. Some of them - almost all of them of course - were beaten sometime in their careers. In those defeats they were often carrying the most weight in the race, or at least more than the winner. Depending upon the nature of those wins and losses, it may not harm the reputation of the horse that lost at all.

I've read on these blogs many times how horse racing needs more people like Jess Jackson. I have rarely read - not never but rarely - people saying how horse racing needs more people like the connections of MTB. And that, friends, is what's wrong with horse racing.

Guess who showed up in West Virgina, a first for a KY Derby winner, to the thrill of racing fans there, even though MTB was loaded down with 11 more pounds than any of his main rivals? The MTB folks. Guess who went to Santa Anita and The Classic, even though the synthetic is not MTB's best surface? The MTB folks. Guess who allowed almost unfettered access to The KY Derby winner, to the delight of racing fans and possibly new racing fans? And guess who paraded MTB in front of the fans at Sunland Park. That's right, you know who it was.

I think it could objectively be stated that MTB's post KY Derby campaign was almost more an ambassador's tour than a campaign designed to solidify his chances as 3 YO Champion. I know his connections would disagree, but they did go out of their way to expose their Derby winner to a broader spectrum of the racing public than in most years.

And my point is - in part - that the talking heads that be in this business blew it. They just don't get what it takes to expand our fan base. Calling the stunning winner of the KY Derby a fluke or a one hit wonder just deflates enthusiasm and spreads pessimism and cynicism. Especially when they continue to be wrong about the horse, based solely on objective evaluation of his performances.

If you continue to reinforce the stereotype - intentionally or unintentionally - that only the wealthiest among us can achieve success in this business, and you don't realize that the number of wealthy people the world over is declining, then...duh. You get what you deserve, but you drag the rest of the industry down with you.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

zambito — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:19:47 GMT

The two of them dont need the hype of the derby. They are a show on their own. Besides the derby party is better than the race it self.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Janesville Liz — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:44:46 GMT

I am uneasy about all this clamor for the two to meet. All I can think of is Ruffian. I remember that so vividly. all the months of hype to get her and Foolish Pleasure in a match-up, and it ended in tragedy.

I for one do not want Rachel and Zen to meet. I want to appreciate them separately. I love them both, and I hate the thought that one of them will have to lose in a head-to-head match-up.

But I predict the Santa margarita will be the key. I think this new filly, St. Trinians, may be a dark horse. If she upsets Zenyatta in he comeback race, the Apple Blossom will hang in the balance.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

carolyn — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:26:57 GMT

Tracey, I to have thought about that, but on the other hand she didnt' go back into training until near the end of January? I think?

I am pretty sure though that J.Shirreffs keeps a pretty tight eye on her, and he will see how she is doing in her first prep race in March,

I know she is a big muscular horse, but hey we all need a break? I remember hearing that at some of her training sessions that she wanted to run, instead of jog. I am a diehard Zenyatta fan, so I have to put all my trust in the Moss's and J. Shirreffs as to see what is best for her.

Actually, I don't believe that they had her in full runs, I believe they have had her in light training....

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Steph — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 03:06:01 GMT

all this talk of match race and Ruffian/Foolish Pleasure is just plain FOOLISH. this is much more a Winning Colors/Personal Ensign MATCH-UP. full field, big purse, honest pace one speed horse one closer, may the best horse win... for my money ZENYATTA

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Horselover — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:12:18 GMT

That is a good idea. More fans would come to the Derby to watch the Derby and stay another day to bet and watch Zenyatta and Rachel. It would be more time for them both to be in good shape and let them get some preps in. Its a good idea and needs to be considered. I'm mean many people would come to watch and I mean lots of people would come. It would be the best two days in history. Somebody should propose the idea I hope somebody does. Its such a good idea. I mean wow so good. So somebody please propose the idea and boost up the purse to 5 million in the stakes race and ask other horses to come maybe some males would make it more interesting. So lets hope it will be considered. Go Zenyatta and Rachel!

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

sherpa — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:18:14 GMT

gary at rough creek, I completely agree with your post. I follow racing today because Mine That Bird brought me back. I've developed attachments to other horses since the Derby - Zenyatta and Cloudy's Knight in particular - but MTB will always be #1 in my heart. I long for news of him.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Hector L. Salaverria — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:01:46 GMT

Re COMMENTS PAS 11/02

"would be super if there were several different involved",

maybe Mr.Cella will like to extend his invitation to EVITA ARGENTINA ,Halo Farms or Three Sisters Thoroughbreds.

And as ZOOKEEPER SAY "Z and RA are the best horses, no doubt and it will be one hell of a race and I have no doubt they will both come out of it just fine".

Maybe like the SAN BERNARDINO Handicap April 17,1998 we will see an spectacular race between two legends like "Alysheba Edges Ferdinand by Nose, and Good Taste (ARG) finished a surprisingly close third, a head farther back.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Golden Gate — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:19:12 GMT

I hope Stardom Bound is invited to compete in the Apple Blossom if she comes out of her race in Feb. 14 La Canada Stakes (gr. II) at Santa Anita Park in Southern California in good shape. It is a 1 1/8th mile race.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Slew — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:14:32 GMT

Gary...I believe the "undisclosed" sum was guesstimated at $10 million. and Yes, Rachel generated more press than Mine That Bird, mostly because he never won another race all year, while she won 8 for 8. She had a spread in Vanity Fair! She was the darling of the media...until the BCC which, telecast around the world, drew international attention to Zenyatta. Yes the ladies did more for racing that MTB, but you really have to admire the grit and determination of MTB to continue to compete well during the year. He and Borel stunned us at the Kentucky Derby, they won the honors, and that can never be taken away from them. Was he a "fluke"...I don't know. He was sooo close in the Preakness, and we'll see what he does this year.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Leon — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:04:29 GMT

Gary at Rough Creek:

The media jumped on the RA story because fillies NEVER win the Ky Oaks by +20 lengths, are sold for $10M, and then beat the Derby winner and the rest of the boys in the Preakness 15 days later.

When a horse wins the KY Derby at huge odds, it is only natural to think it is a one-hit wonder. It is on the horse's part to prove otherwise. Mine That Bird's career hit a high note on Derby Day, and it's been nothing but downhill since then. I guess the media knew what they were doing!

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Leon — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:55:40 GMT

Sam Anderer,

Blind Luck, and second-place finisher Evening Jewel finished in 22'2 and 22'4 in the Las Vírgenes yesterday.

Both St. Trinians and Jeranimo also finished in 23 in their respective stakes wins yesterday.

Closing 23 quarters are as common on the the pro-ride as they are on turf for top quality horses.

You seem to have forgotten that the main knock on Zen is that she's a synth specialist who only runs in SoCal. While wins in the SA 'cap and other G1's in SoCal vs males would be great, they would still be in her home state and on synth surfaces...sorry, but 'been there...done that...

Zen fans justified her staying in SoCal in 13 of her 14 races because the BC was held there two years in a row, so her connections are now doing the right thing by sending her away from there, to run on dirt and further her legacy with more serious challenges. It makes sense because the BC is on dirt in 2010, and because it is the only way she will prove she is the best

horse in the country.

For those who fear injury in a match race: It's nonsense. The risk of injury or accidents in a full field is a lot higher than in a match race.

I'm glad jockeys don't think like fans. If they decided not to ride because of the injury risk involved in racing, we wouldn't have our favorite sport.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

uclinden — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:56:17 GMT

Adding my two cents ....why not ...

Haskell Day at Monmouth Race Track in N.J. ??? Monmouth could add another race that day featuring RA & Zenyatta ; and, as you know, Monmouth has already hosted The Breeders Cup. Both horses would have plenty of prep time and Monmouth is a dirt track. Okay, so I added two & a half cents .. lol

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

EMD — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:17:57 GMT

In addition to the aforementioned negatives for Rachel and Zen to meet Sunday, the day after Derby, I have no doubt that most people intending to attend Derby (like myself) already have travel plans in place and will join the droves leaving Kentucky on Sunday. Although I'd love to see the race, I'm not willing to pay $150. to change my airline ticket in addition to the other expenses I would incur to stay another day. Monday is a work day for most. And what is good old Churchill going to charge for these tickets? I say Oaks day should be ladies day.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Criminal Type — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:16:07 GMT

Teacher, yep, my spelling sucks, but I already knew that. Maybe we can get the bloodhorse to add a spell check feature to their blog. : )

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Criminal Type — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:10:51 GMT

Zookeeper, No worries, easy enough mistake to make. I should have been clearer about my comments in the first place.

These two mares are both much loved and the battle over who is better has been heated to say the least. I respect Rachel Alexandra, but, I love Zenyatta and a lot of that is because of her connections. The Moses, Sheriffs, Mike Smith. For some reason that group just seems so happy. Clearly they all are enjoying life & the horses accomplishments much more then Rachels connections do. Again, this is just my opinion, from what I have seen of them. I do not know any of these people, but you can tell a lot from body language and expression. Jess Jackson does not strike me as a warm fuzzy human being. Nor does Steve Assmusen. Yes, I know this is a business and warm and fuzzy is not part of the job discription. The style of campaigns these horses have run over the past year are so very different.

Zenyatta was not pointed toward the Breeders Cup when she began her 09 season. It just ended up being there when she was ready for it, all her races where about what she needed. Whereas I think from the time Rachel Alexandra came into Jess Jacksons posession, he was specifically looking for another horse to win HOY with and knew she must beat male horses to even have a shot. In other words, While Rachel proved herself to be one very accomplished race horse, one of the best ever, in fact, I dont think Rachels season was about her. I am glad to see they gave her a long rest after her heavy schedule last season. No doubt she deserved it.

re: Zenyatta vs. Rachel: How About May 2?

Tracey — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:56:26 GMT

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in here that I am curious about (I admit I have limited knowledge on training issues!) - there is concern about whether RA can be in top form having recently returned to training. Is it a concern that Zenyatta has been racing and training for too long without a break? I mean: Z started 2009 with a race on May 23, and I assume her training began a minimum of 2 months before that in March. That means she has been training and in good/top form for over a year (by the time the Apple Blossom is run). How long can you have a horse in top form? Her last race was Nov. 7th, but from everything I've read she has been kept in training since then.

I guess my concern is not so much that RA won't have enough training time to be in top form, but that maybe Z needs a break to really be at the top of her game? What are your thoughts on this?