Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Slew — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:19:36 GMT

How sad...first race at Santa Anita on 3/13, Google Me broke down, 3 yr old by a Storm Cat Sire out of an Affirmed mare. Tyler Kaplan, the 16 year old apprentice jocky was ok after his unfortunate 16th race. Google Me was euthanized.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Slew — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:46:11 GMT

Gunbow: thank you for a well-stated logical comment.

Pnewmaket: Thank you too. I believe I have often noted that while Euros race on turf, they actually train on synthetic tracks, which are flat, unlike the slopes of the turf course.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Tom Smith — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:09:20 GMT

I guess you all miss the old days of five horse fields and P Val gunning to the front and no one able to catch the early speed. Stronach is the problem.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

BLAH- BLAH BARB — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:13:58 GMT

I AM NOT A RICH HORSEOWNER, TRAINER,HANDICAPPER OR JOCKEY.BUT I AM A HUGE FAN OF SANTA ANITA'S BEAUTY, HISTORY, AND STAMINA. A PLACE TO GO HAVE AND A FUN DAY.I AM

A RETIRING PARI MUTUAL CLERK (AGAINST MY WILL) BUT THE POWERS THAT BE, WON OUT AND THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CUT THE CLERKS BY 22.5%.

WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE. DURING THE

WEEK WHEN PATRONS ARE FEW AND FAR

IN BETWEEN. BUT MY FAVORITE TIMES

WERE SERVING NEW BETTORS THAT WERE IN AWE OF SANTA ANITA'S BEAUTY.

I DON'T KNOW THE SOLUTION FOR THE

TRACKS DRAINAGE PROBLEMS MAYBE LOTS

OF WOMEN IN VERY HIGH STILLETTO'S

WALKING AROUND ON IT. NOW THAT

FRANKIE'S BACK WHO KNOWS. HE WANTS

THE CHRB OUT OF HIS BUSINESS BUT

HE CERTAINLY TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THE

BANKRUPTCY LAWS. DID HE REALLY HAVE

TO BUY 10 OR WAS IT 11 TRACKS? WE

REALLY CANNOT COMPETE WITH THE

INDIAN CASINOS. WE NEED TO BE ALLOWED TO HAVE A FEW "INSTANT RACING" VIDEO BETTING GAMES OR OUT

AND OUT SLOT MACHINES. SANTA ANITA

HAS BEEN SENDING CHECKS TO THE STATE OF CALIF. SINCE 1934. WHY DO

THE INDIANS HAVE A MONOPOLY? OTHER

STATES HAVE SLOTS AT THEIR RACE

TRACKS. COME ON SACRAMENTO BIGGER

CHECKS FOR YOU TOO, WE'RE DYING HERE BABE!!!! TO THE NAY SAYERS

DON'T COUNT OUT SANTA ANITA JUST

YET IT AIN'T OVER TILL THE FAT LADY

SINGS!!!!!!!!!!!

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Jerry — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 20:13:52 GMT

The California race tracks are managed by a few individuals whom are deeply intermingled with the State's officials. Harris, Moss, Shapiro and Arthur. Their interests are a short_ term_profit not the Horsemen.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Bet Twice — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:24:39 GMT

Clearly Afleetalexforever only reads headlines. If they had read the article (or the actual report), they would have seen the following:

"Overall in California through 2009, there were 3.05 horse deaths per 1,000 starts before synthetics and 1.93 since, according to Arthur’s data. He said this translates into saving dozens of horses per year."

"Different surfaces also have shown different results. Del Mar’s switch to a synthetic surface has resulted in fewer deaths. It had 13 deaths in 2007 and 12 in 2008. Of those 25, 18 came on the synthetic surface. Before switching to synthetic, Del Mar had 26 deaths in 2006 and 17 in 2005 (total of 43)."

"Los Alamitos and its dirt surface accounted for the most deaths: 104 from July 2008 through June 2009 and 88 the year before."

I share Mr. Casner's view, that bringing down the number of fatalities is the only way to ensure the future of horse racing, and while synthetics haven't solved any of these issues, they have made a small dent.

For those clamoring for a return to dirt, it's important to remember that the weather in our semi arid climate makes it a much more difficult surface to maintain. The dry high heat coupled with a lot of clay in the soil makes the racetrack hard, fast and often, more dangerous.

Clearly Santa Anita is struggling to get its surface right and as many have mentioned, the drainage problem is a real issue. While I'm not opposed to returning to a safer dirt surface, I'm not so deluded as to imagine it will silence SA's critics. Once upon a time, everyone complained about speed bias, now its synthetics.

As long as I have been watching horse racing, people have been deriding the backwards "left coast." All I have to say is, lets settle it on the track.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Jodie — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:54:37 GMT

Freedom Star, A Street Cry mare, trained and raced in Caifornia by Baffert won big at Oaklawn Sat and she loved the dirt. Bet Zeyatta will do the same at Oaklawn. She will run huge!!!

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Kate Harper — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:43:06 GMT

Thank you GunBow for your well-written and insightful posting. Yes, California bashing remains a favorite pastime for individuals like Afleetalexforever whose rants and criticisms of synthetic track surfaces are borderline laughable.

I would say AAF's referal to West Coast racing as "boring" is simply typical jaded bias or perhaps he would rather watch horses run around a track in single file and call that historic, traditional racing at its finest.

BTW, most racing enthusiasts were very happy with 2 successive BC championships without a breakdown and this winter meet has been very safe as well. Track surfaces are simply one component of safety, they're not the sole determining factor.

The drainage issues at S.A. are related to the base, not the surface. Other synthetic surfaces around the world do not have the same issues and that includes Woodbine in Canada which I assume gets substantially more rainfall than we do in Southern California.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

pNewmarket — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:15:46 GMT

I'd just like to point out that although the highest level of race staged in Europe on a Synthetic track is currently a G3, the vast majority of horses will carry out most, if not all, of their training on synthetic gallops.

The Al Bahathri gallop in Newmarket is used by hundreds of horses every single day of the year and I've never heard reports of horses having trouble training on it.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Zookeeper — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 16:02:28 GMT

GunBow,

Well you've done it again! Logically analysed the situation and expressed what I'm thinking about the whole controversy. I don't know either which surface is safer. Too many conflicting facts are presented as gospel and I usually find myself more confused than ever after each "expert" gives his/her opinion.

To complicate matters, California bashing enters the arena and really muddles the picture. Until about a year ago, I didn't participate in blogs. I knew of their existence but never looked into it. I read books, articles and listened to the talking heads on TV. What a shock when I discovered that the negative attitudes against California were still alive and well! I thought the prejudices against the West Coast were a thing of the past and had died off after Seabiscuit settled the matter on the track. Silly me!

Anyways, it's refreshing to read your posts. You make your points logically and without undue emotion... something I hope to be able to do some day.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

GunBow — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 00:15:07 GMT

1) I would agree that the CHRB was premature in mandating that all of the major California tracks install synthetic surfaces. The mandate was justified by either anecdotal, incomplete, or just outright biased studies concerning injury/fatality rates.

And to compound matters, each of the major Cali tracks installed a different type of synthetic surface, making the sharing of information and the collection of data more difficult.

2) Anecdotal evdience over the last 3 years suggest that, at best, synthetic surfaces have had a marginal effect reducing racing/training injuries and fatalities. Other studies suggest synthetics have had little to no effect while others point to increased injury and fatality rates. In short, it seems all sides can find some data to support their opinions.

Personally, a low point for me was the 2nd day of the 2008-2009 Santa Anita meet when Indyanne was pulled up in the stretch of the gr.1 La Brea(while on the lead) with what later turned out to be a fatal injury. At that moment, I felt I had been sold absolute BS with regards to synthetics. Then, there was last summer's meet at Del Mar, with a fatality rate far higher than the corresponding Saratoga meet.

3) The change from dirt to synthetics had a dramatic effect on handicapping. California went from a place where speed is king to a place where speed is almost a detriment, especially around 2 turns. The track profiles changed literally overnight. At tracks where speed and speed figures once dominated, handicappers have had to rely more on class and other "subjective" variables.

The change has required handicappers to make significant adjustments, so I certainly understand why some would be frustrated and resentful. After all, we're talking about a change that has directly affected people's pocketbooks. For some, it has meant abandoning a lifetime of notes, data, and knowledge.

4) The cancellations of 2/6 and 2/27 were extremely frustrating for me, as a fan who attends Santa Anita regularly. Like others, I had already put alot of research and handicapping into the cards, purchased and printed material, and was mentally excited to see a great day of racing. The disappoinmtment and frustration was considerable. I could not imagine how the owners, trainers, and jockeys felt!

However,:

1) I still do not understand why California is singled out as the recipient of all of the anti-synthetic backlash. I have read few articles or comments about how Arlington Park "ruined" racing by installing polytrack, or how racing in Canada is "a joke" since Woodbine installed polytrack, or that owners and trainers "should avoid" Derby prep races in Kentucky because Turfway and Keeneland have synthetic surfaces.

Why isn't there an article entitled "Kentucky Horsemen: Get Out While You Can!"

If the reason for the cancellations at Santa Anita is the synthetic surface, then shouldn't we anticipate similar cancellations for the upcoming Keeneland meet or the rest of the Turfway meet? Don't they also have synthetic surfaces? And if synthetic surfaces cause cancellations, shouldn't owners and trainers want to avoid prep races like the Lane's End, Blue Grass, and Lexington?

2) Perhaps the problem with Santa Anita is not the synthetic surface, per se, but the drainage system. From everything I've read, including comments from Santa Anita track superintendent, Rich Tedesco, the problem is with the drainage system and, as a result, there would have been cancellations Feb 6th and 27th with a dirt surface too.

The problem stems from when the old dirt surface was removed and the new foundation, including the drainage system, was put down. When they dug up the Cushion Track after the 2007-2008 winter meet and replaced it with the current Pro-Ride, they didn't rebuild the drainage system. The 2007-2008 meet with Cushion Track had been a near disaster in terms of cancellations, but there were few issues last year during Pro-Ride's first year, so the urgency to fix the drainage system wasn't high; I guess management assumed the problem was the Cushion Track and that with the Pro-Ride surface, the track would drain properly.

Of course, this logic has proven faulty. What has made the 2009-2010 meet worse than last year is that California is experiencing an El Nino weather phenomenon and receiving far great rainfall than normal. The increased rainfall has exposed the faulty drainage system once again, which is why Stronach finally realized that the entire foundation of the track needs to be rebuilt.

While it is clear Santa Anita made mistakes when it reconstructed the track 3 years ago, it is not clear the composition of the surface, in and of itself, is the reason for the recent cancellations. More than surface composition, it appears the main culprit is the infrastructure of the maintrack, and the drainage system in particular.

3) As others have pointed out, Sanat Anita is far from the only track to have experienced cancellations this year. In fact, weather cancellations have affected tracks across the country, significantly reducing the monthly national handle in January and February.

Not only that, the Bob Lewis and the Sham were not the only prep races to have been postponed. If one remembers, the Southwest Stakes at Oaklawn was postponed a week as well. Yet, I haven't seen an article entitled "Oaklawn Horsemen: Get out while you still can".

4) The fact both the Bob Lewis and Sham were postponed for a week does not appear to have significantly affected preparations for either the Santa Anita Derby or Kentucky Derby.

The Bob Lewis(Feb 6th) had originally been scheduled 5 weeks prior to the next logical local prep, the San Felipe (March 13th). With the postponement of the Lewis one week, the gap between races was reduced to 4 weeks. However, that still leaves plenty of time for both horsemen and horse. In fact, it appears that each of the top 4 finishers from the Lewis(Caracortado, Dave in Dixie, American Lion, and Tiz Chrome) will be running in this Saturday's San Felipe. So, in the end, it seems that few Derby contenders were harmed by the postponement.

What about the Sham? Well, the Sham(Feb 27th) was originally scheduled to be run 5 weeks before the next logical local prep, the Santa Anita Derby(April 3rd). Even with the postponement, the horses coming out of last Saturday's Sham will still have 4 weeks to get ready for the Santa Anita Derby.

What is more, none of the key contenders for the Sham scratched out of the race during the week after the postponement. Of the top 6 contenders originally entered in the Sham(Nextdoorneighbor, Setsuko, Alphie's Bet, Outlaw Man, The Program, Kettle River), ALL of them were entered again when the race was redrawn. In fact, the Sham received two new entrants with Marcello and Boulder Creek when the race was redrawn. And, the race went off without a hitch on Saturday, and all horses returned safely. The expected downfall never occurred.

The Bob Lewis wasn't the only stakes race scheduled for Feb 6th to be postponed. Also originally scheduled to be run Feb 6th were the gr.1 Las Virgenes and gr.2 Strub. How did the horses scheduled to run in those races fare with the postponement?

Well, they have done pretty good. When the Las Virgenes was run on Feb 13th, it featured all of the main contenders entered to run on Feb 6th. Additionally, horses from the Las Virgines just ran 1-3 in Saturday's gr.1 Santa Anita Oaks(Crisp 1st, Blind Luck 3rd) even though there was only 3 weeks between races after the Las Virgenes was postponed.

Like the Las Virgenes, the Strub did not lose any of its top contenders when it was postponed to Feb 13th. Running back on 3 weeks, Strub runner-up, Misremembered, won Saturday's gr.1 Santa Anita Handicap while the Strub winner, Jeranimo, ran 4th. The horse that ran 5th in the Big Cap, Rendezvous, was another Strub veteran.

While the postponements were undoubtedly an inconvenience to horsemen and fan alike, in the long run it does not appear to have had much of an effect on the horses.

5) I do not know if synthetics are any safer than conventional dirt tracks. However, I can testify to how safe the Santa Anita Pro-Ride has been so far this meet. I typically make it to Santa Anita twice a week, and I have only seen one horse suffer a catastrophic injury, and that was on turf. The only horses I have seen pulled up and unable to finish a race were on turf. Every horse I have seen run on Santa Anita's synthetic surface has finished the race. I have never witnessed a comparable stretch on any other surface.

There's no guarantees, and I'm certainly not naive enough to think that no horse is going to be injured on the Pro-Ride. All I can do is report what I have been witnessing; and it is encouraging.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Andrew A — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 14:16:20 GMT

Leon, you hit the nail on the head with your comments.

People who love synthetic surfaces love the infomercials about them and the theory of how they are supposed to work.

The reality is that they don't live up to the claims.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Secretariat — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 14:00:47 GMT

I don't think people remember how bad it was on sealed dirt racetracks. I think people have short memories.

The concussion on the joints of a horse on a sealed dirt racetrack is tremendous.

These trainers (and especially the owners) will remember the good 'ole days, when sealed dirt racetracks were around.

If the owners don't remember the good 'ole days (with dirt racetracks), then their vet bills will surely remind them.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Greg — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:47:53 GMT

Do we really want to go back to sealed dirt race tracks (where 2yr olds and Kentucky Derby prospects fall off the derby trail due to sore shins)?

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

LEON — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 00:52:12 GMT

"Synth tracks were said to be the new standard for top-class international competition, wildly popular in Europe, and a surface on which both dirt and turf runners would transfer their form.

Not a SINGLE race in Europe above the Grade 3 level is contested on a synthetic track, and in two Breeders' Cups on Pro-Ride, horses coming off dirt races were 0 for 43.

Rain, however, was never a pressing issue in California until the synthetic era. In its first 74 years of racing on dirt, Santa Anita canceled four cards due to rain. In three years of synthetics, it has had to cancel racing 17 times."

Those words were written by Steven Crist. Hard to argue with such strong evidence.

In the last meeting held with horsemen and trainers in SoCal, 70% of the attendees preferred a conventional dirt track over a synth track, and it is NOT because they don't care for safety of horses. So far, that argument has not been proven.

You guys are not blind, you just refuse to see the light.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Zookeeper — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 21:36:49 GMT

Judy,

The rest of that song is:"It pours, man it pours." But not yesterday, thank goodness! Although we did not have the perfect weather we are used to, racing was not impaired by the showers. Nobody was dumping buckets on the track. The forecast for this coming week is: rain tomorrow and NO RAIN for the rest of the week, including Saturday. My fingers are crossed.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Slew — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:32:56 GMT

It seems to me, because Santa Anita has a drainage problem from not properly installing the pro-ride, and because the entire nation has experienced significant, drastic weather conditions this winter, everyone wants to discount all synthetic surfaces. Pithy argument. Louisiana and Florida have had to cancel races because of heavier than normal rains that washed out their tracks. Arkansas, Pennsylvania, New York, Delaware and Maryland have had to cancel races because of tons of snow. Yet no one is screaming to tear up any of their tracks. If synthetic horses can't transfer their form to dirt, how do you explain Coneyance and Dublin sensational runs? The largest percentage of the traumatic injuries in California happened at the 4 remaining dirt tracks. Some happened on the turf. Mr. Casner is a trainer; I value his opinion more than most of the bloggers who never actually even cared for any horse. As far as handicappers go, if you can't adapt, perhaps it's not the correct line of work for you. I have more sympathy for Eight Bells and Barbaro than I do for any handicapper. Everyone is screaming, "we want dirt tracks" but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a real "dirt" track. A previous comment mentioned most of the "dirt" tracks are actually sand. So what do you really want? A safe track for the horse and jockey, or just a leg up on your handicapping? It's not an "either/or" situation, even though that seems to be the only perspective you really have.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Judy ~ Burbank, CA — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 04:58:09 GMT

How's does the song go... "it never rains in Southern California..."

Well, it does! I was there today. With an umbrella!

Please, please Santa Anita do something QUICK!! I don't want to see racing canceled for Saturday, March 13! QUEEN Z is baaaaaack. :-)

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Pete M — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:41:51 GMT

Stronach recently said "he does not run on synthetic." Thats strange, He ran over 100 starters at Woodbine (poly) and won some of the biggest races this past year. Some of the anti-surface stuff you read is laughable. Even the "owner" of the track cant keep the facts straight.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Shelby's Best Pal — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 16:40:57 GMT

I love horse racing. I love it at Santa Anita. I love it at Del Mar. I love it at Gulfstream. I love it at Belmont. I haven't been to Saratoga but it's on my Bucket List. And I love, love love it at Oaklawn. The loyal fan base there is the envy of tracks all over and needs to be seen to be believed. So Hot Springs Guy, I hear you.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Andrew A — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 14:09:59 GMT

Becky, my comment responding to you didn't make it through the editors room. Maybe because of the links to other articles supporting my positon.

Sometimes I can get a little edgy in my responses so here's the toned down version:

I guess when you say you will not bet on carnage ever again you are saying you’re not betting Del Mar ever again. As far as breakdown and injuries go the jury is still out but we know there are more hind end injuries and fatalities according to a study done last year. How does that fit your scenario. Why is it that 70% of the Trainers at Santa Anita want dirt back in Southern California? They must want to make less money right. If they’re horses are always getting injured or killed on dirt how can they make a living?

Here is a quote from John Shirreffs:

California-based trainer John Shirreffs, who conditions undefeated champion Zenyatta, has long been a vocal opponent of synthetic tracks and, during a national teleconference today, he detailed why he feels the surface does more harm than good in developing young prospects.

“I personally hate synthetics,” Shirreffs said. “I’m more into developing young horses and I find that young horses really don’t like training on synthetics. I don’t know if you can imagine training on Velcro. When the foot lands, it doesn’t slide, it sticks to the ground. Depending on how synthetic the surface is, the horse can’t rotate the foot into the track and push off.

“Imagine running around flat-footed all the time without getting up on your toes and pushing off,” Shirreffs continued. “That’s probably how it would feel to a human.”

Then Steve Crist makes on of the best points in his article:

Framing the synthetic debate, as some of the surfaces' proponents do, as a choice between white-knight safety advocates and selfish, disgruntled horseplayers is an offensive ploy that obscures the facts. If these new surfaces were clearly safer, everyone would adjust and get behind them, but neither the anecdotal nor scientific evidence suggests that is the case.

Have a good weekend Becky. As of the time of this post weather.com is saying the rain starts at noon.

Lets hope all the Jockeys and Horses stay safe.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Bellwether — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 11:13:49 GMT

ANY WAY U LIKE IT...SLICE IT R DICE IT..."THE GAME" IS COMMING BACK TO THE TOP!!!...

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Pasturelands — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 07:19:29 GMT

I agree, Dan. Synthetic surfaces seem to be best for dry regions, like Dubai, where there is very little or NO chance of storms or heavy rains. In my humble opinion, these "plastic" tracks are not made to handle too much water, unlike DIRT which is a lot easier to drain and dry, not to mention being cheaper to replace if damaged. In terms of safety, I have yet to see any studies saying that plastic is safer than dirt. So, for the purpose of practicality and safety, DIRT is really the best surface.

Too bad that they had to spend 30 million on plastic tracks at Sta Anita, before they realized the obvious. Chalk that up to Experience.

I am looking forward to Sta. Anita changing to DIRT real soon. And I hope that whatever is the track surface, they don't hold the BC on the SAME STATE twice EVER AGAIN.

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Gilbert — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 01:17:53 GMT

it is not the surface thats pulling down cal. racing it was the people running the show.again in a nut shell six horse fields ver. twelve horse fields

re: Santa Anita Horsemen: Get Out While You Still Can

Midway Sue — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 01:11:56 GMT

With all due respect Mr. Casner, I believe you stated in an eariler issue of the Bloodhorse you would like Santa Anita to be the official home of the Breeders Cup so I have to take your comments on this issue with a grain of salt.