Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

Bonnie — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 04:07:37 GMT

When I was a little girl my father took me to Santa Anita Race Track in Arcadia. We met Rex Elsworth and Mish Tenney and Swaps. I was only about 9 yrs. old and I thought Tenney was a real cowboy. They were very nice and let me sit on a racehorse, but not Swaps! I thought I was queen of the world at the time! A lovely memory.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

GunBow — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:56:40 GMT

All the power to Assualt for running on that club foot, but what does that have to do with whether he was better than Swaps? These are simple questions, who was faster, who was more consistent, and who accomplished more? The fact Assualt had a club foot doesn't address these questions, unless the club foot made him faster.

Again, the club foot makes for an interesting story, and I certainly have great respect for Assualt overcoming it, but Swaps was the better horse. Swaps was 19 for 25, with 2 2nds and 2 3rds, with 15 stakes wins. Assualt also won 15 stakes, but he did it in 42 starts. Assault was 18 for 42 with 6 2nds and 7 3rds.

Although I think Swaps is the better horse, I think Assualt is very, very good. Assualt did so much beyond just the Triple Crown. He had a great 4 year old season in 1947 when he won the Grey Lag under 128 lbs, the Dixie under 129, the Suburban under 130,the Brooklyn under 133, and the Butler under 135! In the last 2 races he had given weight to Stymie, and in the last race he gave weight to the great mare Gallorette. Those 5 races brought his win streak up to 7 before losing to Stymie and then to Armed in a match race.

Did Swaps carry weight? Oh yes! He won 6 stakes races carrying 130 lbs. even though he ran spectacular times: 1:33 and 2 for a mile, 1:39 for 1mile + 1/16th, 1:46 and 4 for 9 furlongs, 1:58 and 3 for 10 furlongs, and 2:38 and 1 for 1mile +5/8ths.

I am not one who believes a Triple Crown trumps all else. First, the Triple Crown is far more competitive now than it was in the 30s or 40s. If you look back, you'll notice that only about half the Triple Crown winners swept the series under the format Kentucky Derby 1st race, 2 weeks later the Preakness, 3 weeks later the Belmont. For some, there was a month break between the Preakness and Belmont.

Had Real Quiet kept his nose in front of Victory Gallop in the 98' Belmont and won the Triple Crown, I still would have said Skip Away, a 5 year old at the time, was 5-10 lengths faster than him.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

Equinesurgeon — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:10:47 GMT

When Assault won the Kentucky Derby, it was his 4th race in 25 days, and his third win in that timeframe. He won the Preakness 7 days after the Derby, and the Belmont 3 weeks after that. Between those races, he put in some decent works, some at 2-day intervals, some within 2 days of the race, including one at 4 furlongs in 00:48 the day before the Derby. And all with a club foot. So he gets my vote, basically for being a true iron horse. One has to ask, where did the breed go wrong?

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

lobieb — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 23:06:19 GMT

It has to be Assault with Swaps a very very close second, sorry there is no room for 2 at #1. It was a hard decision but what Assault did on that club foot of his is to be greatly admired and a very determined horse. Can;t we please have 2 #1 picks.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

s lee — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 22:35:24 GMT

Nice list, thanks.

The top of the list seems to be a set of clearer choices than the middle. Middleground was a wonderful horse, racing only 15 times but racking up a 6-6-2 record winning the Derby, the Belmont and the Hopeful along the way, with 2nds in the Preakness, Wood, Withers AND Derby Trial.

Morvich was a champion 2 year old, winning, among other things, the Hopeful and the Saratoga Stakes, but I don't think he did much after the Derby - I think he had knee issues. I know he ran in one of those years when the Derby and the Preakness were on the same day, so no Triple Crown for him!

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

Shamfan49 — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:55:06 GMT

I already wrote about 1904 Kentucky Derby winner Elwood. I will add that he also won the 1904 Latonia Derby. Spokane won the 1889 Derby defeating favored Proctor Knott by a nose. His time of 2:34.5 is still the official Derby record for 1 1/2 miles, the Derby distance from its first running through 1895. Besides this win, he also won the 1888 Maiden Stakes and the 1889 American Derby and Clark Stakes. 6/5 favorite Morvich beat Bet Mosie by 1 1/2 lengths to win the 1922 Derby in a time of 2:04 3/5. That race was his only win at 3, but he took the winner’s purse an undefeated 11 times at 2, including at least 7 stakes level contests. Lawrin defeated 9 opponents, including Menow, Fighting Fox and Bull Lea, to take the 1938 Derby trophy. At 3, he won 4 other stakes. His Derby clock stopped at 2:04 4/5. Middleground beat Hill Prince by 1 1/4 lengths in 1950. This 14 horse field also included Sunglow and Your Host. His time was 2:01 3/5 which was just a fifth of a second slower than Whirlaway’s 1941 record. At 2 he won the Hopeful. He finished 2nd in the Preakness, else he’d be in the Hall of Fame for winning the Triple Crown.

The above information is taken from The Kentucky Derby 131 Media Guide. Hope this helps.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

joe — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:22:26 GMT

Swaps was one of the greatest, but I have Assault edging him out at the top. "The Jewels of the Triple Crown" video show Assault really working for those last two legs of the crown, and he won the Derby by daylight-and yes, the bad foot. The conquest of the crown wins it here for me.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

Susan — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:27:45 GMT

Black Gold, although he had Oklahoma connections, was bred in Kentucky.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

The Deacon — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:18:58 GMT

For those who ranked Swaps #1 are right on. No disrespect to Assault but again this isn't even close. Go to "YouTube" and watch a few of Swaps races. He could run at any distance, and was very versatile as well. Very little is ever said about this great equine champion. Swap was the standard in the 1950's. He was the Secretariat, Dr. Fager, Spectacular Bid, Damascus and Buckpasser of his era. It is almost impossible to compare horses of different eras but Swaps story should be told one day.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

da3hoss — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:33:43 GMT

Swaps deserves his story told...

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

Whatever — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:04:43 GMT

Swaps was a great race horse.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

Elaine Winter — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:09:20 GMT

I'll be honest. I could only rank Swaps, Assualt, and Decidedly. The remaining winners I don't have enough information on to give an honest ranking.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

T-Mack — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 03:16:30 GMT

When the final results are in, I would like to see the stats on the horses! And interested in the story behind the oldest, Spokane.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

Daniel — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 03:01:22 GMT

Swaps all the way on this one, he was special no matter where he was bred..

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

needler in Virginia — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 03:00:34 GMT

C'mon, guys........not only did Assault win the Triple Crown, he did it on 3 1/2 feet AND he had the good sense to do it the year I was born...AND we're both from Texas. This whole thing sounds like a great big no-brainer to me. That's really not to take anything away from Swaps....as a kid I LOVED seeing him run, and the name is pretty great, too!

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

ofelia — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 02:38:39 GMT

Swaps

Assault

Decidedly

That is about it.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

MRO — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:42:17 GMT

Swaps & Assault certainly jump out on this list.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

Shamfan49 — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:32:37 GMT

I agree, Swaps is clearly the best of these 8. Then I place Assault, Decidedly. I think Middleground, Morvich and Lawrin are about even. The only thing in Elwood's favor is he's the lone Missouri-bred Derby Champion. I also think I recall that there is a possibility he was actually trained by the listed owner. His official trainer is given as Charles Durnell, and his owner as Mrs. Charles Durnell. A note on page 74 of the Kentucky Derby 131 Media Guide says, "Laska Durnell: The first woman to start a horse in, and win the kentucky Derby. She did not tell her trainer/husband, Charles, that she had nominated Elwood to the Derby." Must have been an interesting dinner table conversation that night.

I put Decidedly third, but he did hold the Derby record at 2:00 2/5 for 2 years. It was broken in '64 by Northern Dancer who held it until '73.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

Cleone — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:07:54 GMT

I knew something about Assault and Swaps, but not much about the others except their names, so I had to go do some reading! Fun learning.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

Karen in Texas — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:23:11 GMT

Assault won the Triple Crown with a club foot. How could he not be ranked first?

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

Tiznowbaby — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:21:44 GMT

Too bad y'all didn't include Black Gold in the list.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

The Deacon — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:14:29 GMT

This isn't even close, Swaps is one of the all time greats period. Look at his world records, 139 flat for mile and a sixteenth, 133 1/5 for a mile until the legendary Dr. Fager broke it, he held the world record for 2 miles established in the American Handicap. Ellsworth and Mish Tenney really did not know what they had. I think that they abused and misused the great son of Terrang. He would rank in my Top 10 of all time let alone the best Derby winner bred west of the Mississippi. I have asked Steve Haskin to do a piece on Tenney and Ellsworth and how the horses on their farm were abused. A story also needs to be there regarding Swaps. I saw him run many times, he was awfully brilliant.

re: Greatest Derby Winner Bred West of the Mississippi River

John T. — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:53:42 GMT

I think Swaps would be right there on anyone,s list regardless of were he was bred.He sure was some ''Racehorse''