Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

holybull — Mon, 11 May 2009 16:54:42 GMT

Listen i have seen alot of racing and their is no way a horse like mine that bird should have won the derby. Does not win a race this year , never wins in america, and his highest beyer was 80 ! what a joke lets make it a race , the derby needs a change ! History tradition that is what the derby is about , quality is what it needs , LIMIT THE FIELD TO 12. This will make it a race and not a crap shoot!

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

Billy in Louisville — Mon, 11 May 2009 15:42:30 GMT

Although I was on the rail (once the fence broke) for Canonero's run, I still think Iron Liege is the biggest upset, as does my mom, since I was born a week earlier, a breech. Now that, she'll say, is an upset.

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

Mike S — Mon, 11 May 2009 05:40:06 GMT

GATO DEL SOL was my favorite upset win, because he was by COUGAR II.

The 10 greatest jockeys? 1 & 2 are Shoemaker and Pincay.

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

wista — Sun, 10 May 2009 15:10:04 GMT

Iron Liege's victory in 1957 was unbelievable on several levels.

1) Iron Liege wasn't even Calumet's best that year. Gen. Duke,who defeated Bold Ruler in the Florida Derby, was a very strong pre-race favorite. In the Florida Derby he set the stakes record that still stands. That was 52 years ago!!!!!!! Many veteran horsemen thought that Gen Duke was going to be "another Citation" for Calumet Farm.

2) Bold Ruler who was an outstanding 3 year old, dueled with Gen Duke in both the Flamingo and Florida Derby. His rider,Eddie Arcaro, later said that his worst ride in the Derby was in'57 aboard Bold Ruler. Round table and Gallant Man were highly touted at the time. Both horses were royally bred and had solid past performances.

3.) In 1954, Sports Illustrated decided to do an article on the birth of a thoroughbred colt. They chose Calumet Farm and their cameras were there when Iron Liege came into this world. What are the odds of a periodical doing this kind of story and choosing the winner of the derby three years later??????

4) Gen Duke came down with the "wobbles", a very rare malady, and was euthanized sometime later.

5) That '57 Derby was arguably the best Derby field ever.Round Table became a millionaire(very rare at the time); Bold Ruler was an outstanding handicap horse who once carried 136 lbs to victory. No horse does that today. Gallant Man won the Belmont and other stakes. Even Iron Liege became a pretty good stakes horse(he won over $400,000 - a lot of money 52 years ago)

6) Round Table,Bold Ruler, and Gallant Man were excellent sires.

Just to change the subject: How about this question-Who are 10 best jockeys ever???????????

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

Ramon Brito (30-G) — Sun, 10 May 2009 03:02:21 GMT

There will never be an upset like Canonero II in 1971. He didn't go off at 100-1 because he was part of the "field". Perhaps this is the only case in Derby history in which the winner's owner was not present at Churchill Downs... Why wasn't he included in the list...???

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

Whatever — Fri, 08 May 2009 16:56:34 GMT

Dark Star beating Native Dancer by a head.

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

wolf man — Fri, 08 May 2009 15:05:32 GMT

Would love to know how the upsetters did later in their race careers

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

da3hoss — Thu, 07 May 2009 19:48:08 GMT

Yup, secretstuff, and the second rule is equally important: "That's why they run the race"...

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

Junie Wise,Rocky Road Farm — Thu, 07 May 2009 19:05:24 GMT

In my lifetime last Saturday & Canonero II are the two "Biggest Upsets"...Dark Star should be up there about a nose back!!!!!

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

Racingfan — Thu, 07 May 2009 16:46:52 GMT

BLOODHORSE STAFF: The great Native Dancer was chosen as the greatest upset last year as well as the greatest horse not to win the Derby this year. It looks like he'll be tops in this poll too. I'm just wondering why an article about him has not appeared in any recent bloodhorse magazine...? He was an incredible horse who has never gotten his due credit because he lost the Derby. However even his loss was an amazing feat given the circumstances - it was the third week IN A ROW that he raced off a long layoff. Had it not been for the trip he still would have won. Then he proceeded to run in the Preakness, Withers and Belmont during the next 6 weeks and won all of the them! That is amazing! After that he was back in action the very next month-not 2-3 months later like most horses. If you do decide to write about him though, please only do so if he will be given his due credit as one of the all time greats! Thanks!

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

Bill B. — Thu, 07 May 2009 16:07:46 GMT

Dark Star delivering Native Dancer his only defeat in the country's most famous race is easily one the biggest upsets in racing history, never mind just the Derby. Canonero II's absence from this list is mighty mystifying. Somebody was not doing their homework.

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

Secretstuff — Thu, 07 May 2009 13:38:31 GMT

Yes, Mine That Bird broke almost every Derby rule. But the first is that anything can happen in the Derby.

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

RWPH — Thu, 07 May 2009 10:02:17 GMT

Mine That Bird was 2-year-old champion in Canada. He won three stakes, including the Grey Stakes(Grade 3), imitating Northern Dancer, another Canadian 2-year-old champ, which also won the Grey Stakes and the Derby. MTB only went off at 50-1 because the bettors blacked out. I can still remember very clearly how staggered everyone was (self included) when Proud Clarion beat Damascus.

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

David Lawrence Scally — Thu, 07 May 2009 06:28:18 GMT

Dark Star, Gallahadion, Proud Clarion & Iron Leige, in order of the shock caused by their wins, are unique in that they won the Kentucky Derby with one or more far superior "greatest of the greats" in the defeated field.

The low ranking [eighth as of early morning 07MAY09] of Gallahadion's upset of Bimelech particularly suggests that too many readers know little about the past history of thoroughbred racing and breeding, neglecting most of what happened before they were born. Bimelech, a son of Black Toney and the immortal foundation mare, La Troienne, was judged by Colonel Bradley to be one of his two best horse. He was a champion two year old who went into the Derby undefeated. Bimelech later became a double classic winner, despite another second place finish in the Withers between the Preakness & the Belmont.

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

Johnny — Thu, 07 May 2009 04:01:32 GMT

I've always thought the two biggest disappointments in Kentucky Derby history had to do with the one horse who didn't run in the race; and the other who got beat in it.

I'm of course referring to Man o'War, who would have been a "done-deal" Triple Crown winner, and Native Dancer, a victim of a terrible trip. With just a little more real estate in front of him, the 'Grey Ghost' would have nailed Dark Star. This to me is without question the biggest, most shocking of all Derby upsets, and this big, handsome colt, in my opinion, has been historically underrated ever since.

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

melmel — Thu, 07 May 2009 00:09:51 GMT

I think Monarchos should be up there. Yah he ran a fast Derby, but he didn't do much afterward. Even though he didn't win the Kentucky Derby, Point Given is the most deserving "close call" for a Triple Crown win in the past 15 years in my opinion.

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

Bill — Wed, 06 May 2009 23:53:58 GMT

Dark Star defeating Native Dancer the most infulintial sire of this century

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

sheik692 — Wed, 06 May 2009 23:11:01 GMT

If on any first saturday of May you take two 3-year-olds to run a 1 1/4 miles in Churchill Downs.

One of them the top 2-year-old in Canada the previous year, who has lost his last 2 races in New Mexico, and the other one, a colt that could be just an ordinary horse (not even a listed stakes winner), who ran his "preps" in Caracas-Venezuela and that its final breeze before the first saturday in May was half mile in 52 seconds.

Who would you bet?

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

Jay V — Wed, 06 May 2009 20:52:20 GMT

Iron Liege, Dark Star, and Proud Clarion are obviously the top 3, but I think some of you are selling Mine That Bird's upset a bit short. While it's hard to put it in context just yet, this is a horse who had raced twice in New Mexico this year, and was beaten in both races. I don't care if he didn't beat a good field, or even an average field...it's way up there on the list of Derby upsets.

re: Greatest Kentucky Derby Upsets

GunBow — Wed, 06 May 2009 20:51:12 GMT

I am going to judge the other upsets just like I have to judge Mine That Bird. We do not know how good this year's also-rans will prove themselves to be. However, that really is not the issue. Not all of the great also-rans cited in the other Derby upsets were great at that time. For exanple, while Round Table and Gallant Man were both under 4-1, neither appeared to be all time greats when they ran in the 57' Derby. Gallant Man had only made 4 stakes starts in his career, with only one win, and had dropped his last 3 decisions. Round Table came into the Derby with 2 straight stakes wins, but he was only 3 of 7 on the year. When Iron Liege beat both (and Bold Ruler) in the Derby, neither were champions, and they certainly weren't in the Hall of Fame. I am going to judge these upsets given what was thought of each field at the time of the Derby (mostly reflected in odds).

I am not familiar with Donerail, but I acknowledge he was the longest shot to win. However, if the Derby didn't attract so many novice bettors, and the memory of Derby longshots like Giacomo was not so fresh, Mine That Bird might have been higher than 91-1, the odds of Donerail. No major handicapper or writer even picked Mine That Bird to show, and no one on the blogs I've been involved with mentioned him either. He broke almost every major Derby "rule", and did it by almost 7.

If I had to pick a horse #2, it would be Cannonero.

re: Greatest Derby Upsets

AF One — Wed, 06 May 2009 19:54:00 GMT

Ooops!

Gallant Man was #37. Not at all a bad rating - the ratings and records are from The Bloodhorse's "Thoroughbred Champions: Top 100 Racehorses of the 20th Century".

re: Greatest Derby Upsets

Cleone — Wed, 06 May 2009 19:52:47 GMT

I had to go with Dark Star #1, Iron Liege #2 and Proud Clarion #3.

re: Greatest Derby Upsets

Qatmom — Wed, 06 May 2009 19:20:57 GMT

Where is Canonero II

Canonero II's odds would have been longest of all had he not been a 'field' horse. His story is the unlikeliest of all. If memory serves me correctly, his people weren't even asked to the pre-race festivities. He almost didn't get to the US after one plane had to turn back because of an engine fire. CBS didn't know quite how to handle things after the race because nobody in their crew spoke Spanish. Racing is about more than gambling odds.

re: Greatest Derby Upsets

LaurenL — Wed, 06 May 2009 19:13:32 GMT

Oh, yeah. I forgot it wasn't the Derby. I wasn't thinking. Still a good upset though!

re: Greatest Derby Upsets

Gladys — Wed, 06 May 2009 18:58:48 GMT

Yes, what of the "Caracas Cannonball" Canonero II??? He should be on the list too!