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Ron: This is Ron Mitchell of BloodHorse.com's
Talkin' Horses podcast. Today our guest
is Bob Kulina. As many people know, you
could see his biographical sketch on our website. He is the Vice President of Thoroughbred
Racing for the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority and the General
Manager of Monmouth Park.
This year Monmouth Park has undertaken a bold
experiment in which they are slashing the race dates but are offering up to
$1,000,000 per day in average purses for the 50-day meet. The results have been an overwhelming success
and a lot of that success is attributed to Mr. Kulina and his management.
Bob, welcome to Talkin' Horses.
Bob: It's an honor to be a part of your show.
Ron: First question is really what took so long to
get to a point of thinking so far outside the box that you have gone this
route?
Bob: Well, we haven't been happy with the
direction of our race product and we're a firm believer that the most important
thing is to produce a product that the consumer has interest in and is going to
be willing to invest their money in.
I've been with Monmouth my whole career and I have a great relationship
with the horsemen. I guess it's hard to
get any horsemen's organization to do something like what we did, reduce the
dates over 50%. It's just amazing in
that sense, so we worked very hard and this wouldn't be able to happen without
Dennis Drazin who, along with myself, spent over two and a half years trying to
convince everybody, both sides of the fence, management as well as horsemen,
that this was the direction that we needed to try and to see if we can change
the perception of New Jersey and racing around them. So far it's really done better than we
thought it would have done.
Ron: Really, you're trying to focus more on
quality, both with the purses that you're offering and the quality of fields
that you're attracting over quantity. A
lot of times, obviously everyday that you're open it means money for the
racetrack and money for horsemen, so there had to be quite a good sales job
going on there.
Bob: Yeah, it was a big sale. I'm a firm believer a good race needs field size and needs a
competitive field. I mean there are such
things as a competitive $5,000 claiming races but what we were seeing was our claiming
races were just non-competitive. We had
a lot of 6-5 shots in these races and nobody wants to bet on six, seven horse
fields with 6-5 shots, 3-5 shots.
Our better races, we still had a core of great
horsemen stable with us, so our better races and our Saturday cards tended to
be okay the past couple of years but it's been the weekday cards that were just
so weak. I was taught a long time ago that you're supposed to create your stars
and the consumers who you're creating the stars for. and so we went out there
and decided to put all our eggs in one basket, so to speak, and offer a lot of
money and try to get big competitive fields.
So far, it's kind of done what we were hoping it would do.
Ron: It really has just created an overall good,
positive buzz for both Monmouth and New Jersey racing.
Bob: Definitely, I mean our transmissions have
doubled and that is just hard for us to believe and it isn't like we weren't
three years away from hosting The Breeders' Cup. We have the Haskell, so we have good racing
but to double your transmission just means the rest of the country is really
paying attention. That's through half of
the meet; we're halfway through... we're 24 days through I guess through the
weekend and our transmissions are up over a hundred percent, our live handle is up close to 25%, and so
everything right now seems to be working quite well.
Ron: We'll go straight to the questions we got
from our readers, the first one is from Bob Z - I live about 20 minutes from
the track and in talking to people I can definitely tell there's more of a buzz
about Monmouth than in the past years.
Great job and thanks for getting Rachel again. My question is do you foresee in the future
being able to offer another signature marquee type of race like the Haskell
later in the meet for older horses?
Bob: That's a good question. I mean the problem with marquee races - not
the problem - is y ou need to find a slot that a marquee race fits. The new schedule of Saratoga with the Whitney
and the Woodward it late August, it doesn't really leave a spot for one of
those races. You have them on the Turf
Division, our other grade I, the United Nations, the spot for the UN that works
is more 4th of July because in August you have the Sword Dancer and
Arlington Million.
So right now, there isn't a division that truly fits
at the end of the meet. I wish there
were because he is a thousand percent right; we would love to have another post
Haskell event. So we're trying to focus
on building August with more marketing events.
We have a crabcake festival, were running post Labor Day. We're going with a hunt meet ; we're going to
do a Jersey state-bred day in early
September. So we're trying to strengthen
our racing but it's hard to find a race that fits.
Ron: That subject of scheduling races brings us to
the next question from Shawn - This year the United Nations and Man of War were
offered on the same weekend. Year after
year, it appears there's no coordination with fellow Mid-Atlantic jurisdictions
and New York on stakes calendars. Why
not?
Bob: Well we did
attempt to do that and I think it's a question that NYRA needs to answer. The United Nations was all by itself on the 4th
of July and it was a month after the Manhattan and a month before the Saratoga
races. Two or three years ago, New York
felt they needed to move their race. We
had discussions with them last October, obviously nothing came of it. I do agree that we need better coordination
of our events. Sometimes it takes two to
tango and right now, we couldn't accomplish that and I agree, it's not the best
thing for racing.
Ron: Okay but it's certainly something that you
work on.
Bob: Right.
Ron: Next question is from William Harkins - Mr. Kulina, how have the employees reacted to
the new schedule? I'm sure many
employees are now working three days a week instead of five. Also, what about the businesses in the Oceanport
area, have they been impacted because of less traffic coming in?
Bob: Good question. That was one of our fears going in of how
would it affect a lot of our per diem employees, and it's really the opposite
effect. There's more energy among our
employees. Everybody's generally
excited. Attendance is up over 20% and
people see now that there's a future for something. For years, there was a lot of negatives
surrounding racing and right now something positive is happening and right now...
that is probably of all the things with the meet, the positive energy of the
horsemen, in our employees and the fans; that, I think, is the thing that's the
most rewarding so far after half the meet is over.
Ron: Okay, so it's just got an overall good feel
about it.
Bob: Definitely, there's a lot of positive energy,
a lot of excitement. People are excited
about Rachel Alexandra coming. They're
excited about... you know the potential
right now is there for a great Haskell.
So right now it's been very positive.
Ron: Okay.
Ginny wants to know - If the casino industry decides not to renew its
purse subsidy for New Jersey racing, what funding options will Monmouth Park
have and what would purse levels be in 2011 without it?
Bob: Right now our intention is to go after
funding. The Governor's Commission on on
Racing is coming out with a report around the 1st of August. Everybody's really pleased in the entire
State of New Jersey with the results of this meet. So now it's going to be the job of the sports
authority and the horsemen to go figure out how we can do this again but we
have every intention to going out and doing this again in 2011.
Ron: Whirl Away Joe (probably not his real
name} he wants to know - Do you feel this will be the future of our sport,
fewer race dates, more weekend racing, larger prizes for claiming races and
allowance races, particularly considering the diminishing number of horses
available?
Bob: Yeah, well I definitely feel this is the only
way we can put the product out there as an industry right now. I mean the customers want big races, they
want competitive races, big fields and like every other sport you have to have
the money to pay the athletes, and I do think this a direction in my crystal
ball, especially in the Mid-Atlantic region. I think everybody needs to find a
slot what's the best for them. It would
be nice if somebody in the future would fill the slot of quality racing on a
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. (Simulcast) Transmissions
is such a major part of our business nowadays so I'm hoping that down the road,
you will see people, almost like I said before, it's almost like the 50's where
you had these short meets and people moved around and I think that's where the
direction we're headed.
Ron: Fred Danielson asked - Is your handle
covering the purses being paid out during this meet?
Bob: The handle doesn't - obviously this year we
have a casino supplement and that's a large part of our purse structure. So the answer is no, but the interesting
statistic is that revenues and gross handles and for purses is up in 2010 with
12 racing days over 20 racing days in 2009.
The business model, the current model, seems to be more profitable for
both purses and for management.
Ron: Okay, that brings us on to the next question
from Don - How close are you to breaking even with Monmouth during this meet?
Bob: Breaking even is - the Sports Authority is
very complicated. We have two
racetracks. We have the OTWs so we have
to look at our business model in an entirety and this new model will bring the
sports very close to the breaking even between the racing division and what's
it's probably going to setup is something
similar for 2011 to happen within our standardbred division. There's a lot of stuff that we're going to
analyze and we're going to be quite busy in September trying to figure out what
is the proper model. I mean there are definitely
things - we will definitely tweak this model as we move forward.
Ron: A different topic, Bob Hut writes - I would
like to congratulate you on the tremendous Monmouth Park meet. I would also like to ask if you have any
plans to honor our late great friend, trainer Alan Seewald. It would be wonderful if there were stakes
race named in his honor or if he could be immortalized in the Monmouth Park
Hall of Fame.
Bob: That is something we'll take into
consideration. Alan's a dear
friend. His family's a dear friend and
like anybody who's been with you a long time, all that's taken into
consideration and the problem with all of that is we have a lot of people who
have left us that are really good, and so it's an issue that is under
consideration and we'll spend the winter and talk about it.
Ron: Rick wants to know - What has been the
reaction to the new racing schedule in Monmouth Park to the trainers, owners
and breeders of New Jersey breds who now have fewer races to run their horses
in?
Bob: Once again, it was extremely positive. I mean everybody had a lot of fear, a lot of
reservations rightfully so because that was such a bold initiative but the
breeders appear to really be happy with this.
You have the state breds running for maiden special run for $75,000. We're still offering over two and a half
state bred races a day, or we will by the end of the season and right now, the
breeders for the first time see a future, as well as the horsemen. I think one of the things that has surprised
a lot of people, not so much myself, but our local Monmouth guys are doing
quite well and there are a lot of guys that didn't think they'd be able to win
the races and they're winning races. I
have guys coming up to me and tell me, "Jeez, I finished 2nd in a
maiden special and I made $18,000 for finishing 2nd..." or whatever it
is... it's been very positive. I think
everybody; guys who I know voted against it have come up to me and said, "I'm
glad you were persistent with this because it's the right thing to do."
Right now I think most everybody is very happy with
what we're doing.
Ron: It isn't like big time stables from outside
just coming in and raiding the purses.
Bob: No, it isn't like that because if you look at
our leading trainers the last decade, you have Todd Pletcher on the board. You have Bruce Levine. You have Kelly Breen who trains a high-end
outfit. We've had high end people with
us for a long time. Kiaran McLaughlin
has been here. Mark Hennig has been
here. We've had big outfits here and
this isn't something new to Monmouth.
We've had good outfits and the local guys are doing quite well. I mean our local jockeys are doing well. Joe Bravo is still the leading rider. We had some great riders come in, but Joe
somehow... a lot of people have just seemed like they stepped up their game.
Ron: Okay, that's great.
Bob: Really when we do this next year, I believe
the racing will be much stronger because guys will have more time to better
prepare the horses they have for the meet.
I think there's a lot of growth in the racing end of this, the product
end of it.
Ron: Joe asked - How do you think Monmouth will
fare in the coming weeks as Saratoga opens its meet?
Bob: Saratoga always opens at that time, so I
think the numbers; hopefully they stay in step with it. That is something we're obviously looking
at. How will our signals hold up against
Saratoga, against Delmar? That's the
unknown, but I think the racing product will be strong. Philly Park is shutting down in August, so
whenever they run a week races 50, 40 some races a week less demand on the
horse inventory. I just think our racing
is going to be strong and hopefully it continues. I know Saratoga is the premier track in
America but the flipside is our signal goes into Saratoga and they're going to
have their 20-30,000 people or whatever they have on a given day so hopefully,
some of those patrons take a look at Monmouth.
Ron: Barry wants to know - With horsemen getting a
million dollars a day in purses, how about giving more money back to the fans
in the form of lower program costs, lower costs for food and drink and also
what about some instant winning cash vouchers?
Bob: We do have a marketing department. We do have direct mail with winner's vouchers
in there and I think we do it twice a year.
We have as far as free admission; our pay gate is right about 30%, so we
put out a lot of passes. We give away
free passes every month for the next month.
If somebody's worried about taking advantage of admission, we were
there. The flipside is the patrons are
getting a much better product. We've
expanded our marketing schedule a lot this year and we want to actually to
continue to expand it.
Our long term goal is to have an event every
weekend. We added three events in June,
and I think that added to the strength in June, something that we hadn't had in
the past. We added a wine festival and a
music event, another food event. So
we're trying to have every weekend events and we're already talking about what
we want to do for next year on some of the weekends where there is a void.
Ron: That brings us to the next question from Paul
Gaspari who wants to know whether or not any of those things you're trying, if
more of them could be aimed at the younger crowd, particularly like mid-30's like he and his
friends.
Bob: Well we're trying to do that. If you come to Monmouth on weekends it is a
much younger crowd. We're trying twilight
racing, we're trying that and this Friday will be the second of three. We'll sit back and analyze that.
That's part of the thing we're trying to figure out
how to do; do you bring young people in there with marketing events or do you
bring young or new people in here with good racing? Our thought process is you need an
entertainment event every weekend with music, with specials and try to sell
it. Anybody who has been to our picnic
area knows it's a great way to spend the day at the races and hopefully, we can
walk the people through our building and get them into the clubhouse and where
they actually are getting very interested in handicapping.
I think that's a challenge for racing, we're trying
but we're pretty happy with the direction we're going when we see the young
people on Saturdays and Sundays because it is a younger crowd than the norm.
Ron: Another question, pretty much off the topic
of current maintenance scheduling, that type of thing is from George Schwartz
who wants to know why you don't use a 5½ furlong turf course more other than
for stakes? Also, do you see a use for
the turf at the Big M in the future?
Bob: Okay, the 5½ is out of the chute and when we
have the rail out 24, 30 feet, it's a little tight turn so we don't use it that
way. We don't go out of the chute that way but having one turf course, if I
have the magic wand I would love to have two turf courses like New York
does. There are so many divisions that
you need to run on the turf. You know
Mike tries not to overuse the 5½ and personally, I think a 5½ is a tough race
to bet on because horses can get eliminated so quick, so we tend to prefer to
use our mile races more but with that
said, we still try to keep the 5½ to the higher level horse.
Ron: Jeff Strong believes that your race day is
too long. He wants to know about the
possibility of moving up the first post to noon or 12:15.
Bob: That is one of the things going with 12
races, I think Jeff's right; it's a long day and that is something that we're
talking about for the future. Are 12
races too many? Do we need to make our
post-time earlier? It is a long
day. What we see some people come early
and leave early and then we're also experiencing people coming later. Guys that are coming off the golf course at
3:30 and they still can get to five, six races, so it's a little bit of the
mixed bag there. If you stayed the whole
day, especially we've had some incredible heat like this summer like what we
have on the East Coast, so the days are long.
That is one of the issues we're facing with the patrons. It is a long day and that is something that
we will definitely look into for next year.
Ron: Next question, Bill said he's an owner of an
outdoor box with six seats and has been coming for years and loves it. He says you do a great job. He does want to know whether or not with the
success of this meet, any plans to upgrade the facility, particularly in the
box seat areas with better furniture and better televisions.
Bob: The answer is yes. The TVs that we have out there (not all of
them), they are at the end of their lifecycle.
We're looking at that. We're looking
at getting a video board for next year for the infield. I think that will be our major capital
objective of next year, how to get together a first rate video board in the
infield. All of those things, he's
right. We're moving along but at the end
of the day, I still am pretty pleased with overall way this whole building is
holding up.
Ron: Sure, and also I mean just considering how
the economy had been in recent years, I would say it's probably hard to justify
making too many of these types of investments, so certainly now with what's going on you've got a lot more
incentive.
Bob: Well, we spent a lot of money for the
Breeders' Cup on the facility. We did a
lot of things that needed to be done...upgrading electric, things that people
don't get to see, and we accomplished a lot, put two new tracks in, a new turf
course, a new main track, spent a lot of money in the stable areas. Now, hopefully, we can find the resources to
move forward in that direction.
Ron: This next one is not so much a specific
question but just someone who has a comment about a rumor going around that
it's from up the track. There's a rumor
that your field sizes are starting to shrink because the track is too deep and
too gritty with kickback giving a strong bias to horses who have been training
over the track road and ship ins. Is
this true and how do you fix this problem?
Bob: I don't think it's true. I think that I did a lot of fix it this week,
we finally had the first rain in 30 days.
We've had zero rain.
Ron: Nature helps a lot, doesn't it?
Bob: Nature helps a lot. I think the turf course as well as the main
track needed the rain we got. With our
history of too much rain, I'm not going to wish for rain. Actually I think talking with the jocks, they
feel that the track is playing fair, that good speed horses can win and closers
can close. If anything, there's no
bias. The only bias is that you need to
be a good horse. I think in the past
maybe some cheap speed could carry itself further our track. This year the consensus from the backside
from the trainers, from everybody involved is don't change a thing. Right now, we're pretty pleased with the way
everything is going.
Ron: Jay Taylor asked - Does Monmouth Park have a
zero tolerance policy in place regarding horse slaughter within the training
colony?
Bob: Zero tolerance policy, I don't know if that's
the right thing. We - the THA (The Horsemen's Association) and ReRun, we
have a program in place and we're pretty pleased with the results the last two
years and you know we have the ban on slaughter like everybody else but ReRun
is doing a great job for us, the horsemen.
I have the jockeys contribute to ReRun, the trainers and the owners
association, us, and we work on a daily basis with ReRun and so far, {knock
on wood} everything has been going relatively well.
Ron: Kind of on a related note, Catherine G.
writes - Has Monmouth Park taken measures to protect its horses from those
wanting to grab your large purses at all costs considering placing the jeopardy
some of the horses? She wants to know
whether $37,500 purses for $5,000 claimers actually promotes equine welfare and
safety.
In other words, I guess she wants to know whether or
not people will be taking greater risk with marginal horses in order to get
these kinds of purses.
Bob: One, most people who are in our business love
the animal and that's the furthest thought from their head. We have the stewards watch some horses that
maybe don't belong and we have a stewards list and we have some horses that we
told that you don't belong.
With that said, I think there's much more positive
than negative. When an owner has a
chance to make money and pay his bills, he's more apt to do the right thing
than the wrong thing. I think people get
desperate when economics come into play.
So if anything, I think the large purses have had a positive effect on
the welfare of the horses. I don't think
people are taking advantage of them at all.
There are too many good people taking care of these animals all across
the country, I just don't think that's - I think that's a misnomer. But in any case, some of the people that we
have pulled some people up and said that this horse doesn't belong here but
overall, I think it's been a very positive effect for the owners and the
horsemen.
Ron: We're coming down to the end here, Bob. Jim Gazelle who is from Matuchin, New Jersey
says he's been going to Monmouth Park for many years and has had to put up with
sitting in the grandstand with his family and having to endure cigarette and
cigar smoke. He wants to know when
smoking will be banned from the grandstand, and he said it's especially bad on
crowded a crowded day like Haskell Day when there's only one designated non-smoking
section.
Bob: As we speak, that whole issue is under review
and we comply with the law and we're looking at Jim's issue. It's as anybody who runs a racetrack knows,
smoking is a complicated issue but it is currently under review the exact thing
what he's talking about.
Ron: Listen Bob, we've had more questions coming
in but they were already really been asked and certainly want to thank you for
taking your time. You've been, I think,
very upfront and forward about everything.
Our readers obviously wanted to ask you about quite a bit if different
things, so I appreciate your openness.
It's got to be very gratifying for you as a racetrack management to be
involved in a meet like this. It has so
much of a good feel about it.
Bob: Yeah, definitely it is. You know I've been here my whole life since
1963, since I was a little kid, working with horses with my dad and to have the
positive energy that's surrounding the meet right now, I think that's the most
rewarding thing. I'm remiss to say I
think Mike Dempsey and the racing department have just done a marvelous job
putting together good competitive fields.
I'm really pleased with the job they're doing this year as every year,
and I just have a great group of people working for us that really care about
this place and hopefully, the customers feel that when they come because I have
a lot of people that just put their whole life and soul into this place, and
we're pretty proud of what we do here.
Ron: Have you had a lot of calls from other
racetrack executives around the country asking you how do you get your horsemen
to buy into this?
Bob: It wasn't as much as how do we get the
horsemen to buy into this as much as what do the numbers look like? Is this better or worse? I think to get the horsemen to buy into it
it's through trust, relationships. I've
done everything you can do here, and I just have a great rapport with horsemen
and hopefully, it's something that we all can look at and maybe can work with
some other jurisdictions, maybe you can't, but I definitely think it's something
the industry is going to look at.
Ron: Listen Bob, once again thank you for your
time and good luck with the rest of the meet.
Bob: Okay.
Thanks, Ron.
Ron: This has been Ron Mitchell with
BloodHorse.com's Talkin' Horses podcast with Bob Kulina.
