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Derby Picks

 

Well, we are finally here. Time to make Derby selections. Considering the inconsistency of many of the top 3-year-olds, inexperience of some of the contenders (mainly Big Brown), and trying to decipher how these synthetic track horses will run on the Churchill dirt, this year's handicapping challenge has been daunting.

But after being around the horses and trainers in Louisville, and doing my best to break down this race from a handicapping standpoint, here is what I have come up with:

Throw outs

Adriano (15): I know a lot of people like him because of Prado taking the mount over Monba, but I can't see it. He's coming off a six-week layoff, hasn't proven he likes dirt, has five sub-80 Beyers and I stood in the winner's circle after Lane's End and had the connections tell me he wasn't a Derby horse. If Adriano comes in the top three, I will be ripping up every one of my tickets.

Anak Nakal (3): Bottom of exotics at very best.

Big Truck (7): No thanks.

Bob Black Jack (13): He's a sprinter.

Cowboy Cal (17): Too much early pace for him to be a factor.

Gayego (19): Rare that you can toss the Arkansas Derby winner, but I have no problem doing it here, especially from post 19.

Recapturetheglory (18): I think he finishes last.

Z Humor (11): Hasn't been close this year.

Won't Win, But Will be in my Exotics

Cool Coal Man (1): Has a win at Churchill and will probably be pretty close to the pace.  I like his experience and pedigree, so wouldn't be surprised to see him finish in the money.

Denis of Cork (16): It's pretty clear that he should have run in Rebel and needed an extra race, but has looked good all week. Borel will have to work his magic.

Eight Belles (5): She's the wild card in here. Talent is undeniable, but will 10 furlongs be too much? Probably.

Monba (14): Pletcher is flying under the radar for once, so maybe this is his year. Like that this one has a win at Churchill and is bred to go the distance. Could be in contention, but not sure he is fast enough to put him on top.

Smooth Air (12): Always seems to be in the mix and closing style could be perfect for the projected early speed. Not sure about getting the 1 ΒΌ miles, but it I wouldn't be surprised to see him get third or fourth.

Tale of Ekati (2): Not crazy about him, but respect his ability to win Wood and is bred for this race.

Visionaire (8): Another closer who always seems to be right there. Matz factor too.

Z Fortune (6): This is one that might be sitting on a big race. Will likely move forward from Arkansas Derby and may be peaking at the right time. Asmussen is quietly confident about him. He'll be in a lot of my tickets.

Best of the Best

As you can see, this leaves Pyro, Big Brown, Court Vision and Colonel John as my top picks.

Pyro (9) has been training very well at Churchill. I know I wrote he would be unable to recover after the Blue Grass disaster, but I have changed my mind, somewhat. He has proven himself as one of only two horses with two prep wins this year, has two plus 100 Beyers and the early speed should set up well for him. Asmussen has him ready to fire again. Not my top pick, but he will be in a lot of exotics.

Big Brown (20): This is how I play him: Key him on top in a trifecta and leave him out of every other ticket. He either gets over from the 20-hole, puts himself in good position at the half-mile pole and wins by three or he gets jostled early, makes a late bid, tires in the stretch and runs out of the money. It's one or the other. My instincts tell me it's the latter. All the arrogance and cockiness from Dutrow will come back to haunt him. Remember, it's been since 1915 that a horse has won the Derby off three starts. And at 3-1, he's not worth a big play. But because of his talent he is worth a few bucks in exotics.

Court Vision (4): In my Derby analysis for the Blood-Horse magazine I picked this one to win it. I wrote that article last Saturday before being at Churchill and seeing post position draw. I am still very high on him and haven't changed my mind. Here's why I like him: Has a win over Churchill surface, has never done worse than third in six starts, always closes strong, has Churchill's all-time leading trainer in Bill Mott, has best jockey in the nation (Gomez) and is crying out for the extra distance. Love his pedigree. Plus, the added blinkers will likely get him more involved early on, which was the problem in Fountain of Youth and Wood.

Look, his speed numbers aren't great and that is a legitimate concern. But I think he likes the track and will be flying at the end. He will be in every one of my trifecta tickets. But...

After seeing Colonel John (10) all week and taking everything else into consideration, if you put a gun to my head, he is my top choice. To me, the fact that he has never run over natural dirt is no longer a question mark, based on how he has looked this week. His bullet work on April 27 proved that. Eoin Harty is one of the most underrated trainers around, this horse has never done worse than second in six starts, and does everything right. Love Tiznow as sire, and being the big Point Given fan that I am, like his Turkoman line even more.

All signs point toward this horse is sitting on a big race. He'll be right there at the end, and should have enough closing kick to get it done.  

All that being said, here is how my $100 will be spent. As you know, I am an exotic fan. The pools will be huge. This is where I'll take my stabs:

$1 trifecta - 4,10/4,9,10/1,2,5,6,8,9,10,12,14,16,20 - ($34)

$1 trifecta - 20/4,9,10/1,2,4,5,6,8,9,10,12,14,16 - ($30)

$2 exacta - 4,10/1,2,5,6,8,9,12,14,16 -  ($36)

Good Luck to everyone!!

50 Comments:

Love the insight. I look forward to cashing a few tickets.

Hammer 01 May 2008 3:53 PM

Great analysis!  Probably you are the only other person besides me that feels Big Brown will go bust in this race and that Colonel John is the real deal. I'll be borrowing liberally from some of your line ups!  Best of luck come Saturday - and ultimately - let all horses and riders come home safely!

Cgriff 01 May 2008 4:38 PM

court vision??? his last win was in november with a 76 beyer..big brown from the 20 post after only 3 starts??? did you see curlin last year in the derby, even as talented as he is he wasn't able to win with only 3 lifetime starts. Monba has the perfect running style for this race and gets the perfect post and has a nice win over the track last year.

dave 01 May 2008 5:41 PM

I agree with your top four and your assessment that if Big Brown doesn't win, he'll be up the track. However, Prado chose Adriano over Monba for a reason. Adriano should be considered underneath in the exotics and leave Eight Belles out. Her bell will toll early right out of the gate when she gets sandwiched between the boys. She should have been left in the field for the Oakds and the trainer could have had two legitmate shots at winning the Oaks instead of one.

Bud Miller 01 May 2008 5:43 PM

Dave: Court Vision also ran a 90 Beyer when he won as a 2-year-old.

jshandler 01 May 2008 6:07 PM

Pyro will set the world on fire come Saturday.  Throw out the Blue Grass.  Everybody has a bad day -- just ask Spitzer.

Gil 01 May 2008 6:41 PM

Check out Visionaire's splits in the BG? Last 3/8 in 35.8, last 1/4 in 23.9 and last 1/8 in 12 and he has a bullet w/o at the track. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets up.

Don Wooley 01 May 2008 6:56 PM

Pretty nice spread you got there Jason,but leaving out Pyro from the top spot?.eh!!...YOU KNOW he has the Strongest stretch-kick!Why risk it?..

Slew.em.All 01 May 2008 7:16 PM

Adriano will be on the board. Prado had his choice of 3 theres a reason he picked Adriano and all will find out Saturday!

gator 01 May 2008 7:17 PM

Big Brown has to be a very special horse to come from the 20 hole and win the Derby.  I happen to believe that he is and that this might be the year when the Triple Crown drought is broken. I like Tale of Ekati, Court Vision and Pyro to follow him home in that order at a respectable distance behind.  Richard Dutrow is a sporting trainer.  Kudos to him for sticking his nech out and stirring up the sport this year with his bold remarks.  I can hardly  wait for post time on Saturday.  Best of luck to all thoruoghbred lovers.    

Ranagulzion 01 May 2008 7:39 PM

Handicapping 101 : Find the key. Hope for value. Go to the window ! The answer is Court Vision. Maiden poly track win to Gr.3 win at CD next out is a big job. Gomez's choice over Col. John, Mott adds blinks, good post. Won 3 in a row when within 5 lengths. 46 work at CD says all systems go. A signer tri.

Jack R. 01 May 2008 7:49 PM

Jason-- you are the pro, as your wonderful analysis here abtly demonstrates. As you painfully know, I am just a horse nut and my Wife's tack cleaner and horse holder, period. In that spirit, please rethink Smooth Air-- yes, the trainer is a classic feel good Derby story and yes he has done an outstanding Michael Matz-worthy job stretching this horse out, but unless you think Smooth Air can DRAMATICALLY out run his pedigree (both his Sire, Smooth Jazz and his Dam, Air France, were basically milers), I cannot see this horse making it a mile and a quarter. That said, you DO have the right horse finishing last-- Recapturetheglory won't be capturing anything save dirt kicked in his face by the other 19. Big Brown? He's a Brown out. While I can see him breaking smartly, then working his way down nicely and even leading at the first turn, I still see him getting run down in the stretch by the likes of Court Vision (love his pedigree, too), Pyro (Pulpit's revenge), Visionaire (Matz stretches him beyond his pedigree), Cool Coal Man (Mineshaft as a sire "not bad"), Tale of Ekati (in his genes to run in this race) and even Adriano (A.P. Indy's kid should fine some way to run on the dirt, don't you think?), provided HG Motion's guy doesn't meltdown on Edgar Prado in the post parade, all finishing ahead of Big Brown, and Adriano, his best days ahead of him perhaps the turf, finishing a game 6th-- in honor of 2006 Derby 6th place finisher and future turf star, Showing Up.  I'd put Mr. Tagg's Big Truck at 50-1 in play before I bothered with Big Brown.  Court Vision-- by a "long nose", followed by the 9-8-1-2-15. I know-- where's Colonel John, Monba and Denis of Cork, right? Humm. Moving right along and in conclusion: with all due respect for Larry Jones and  will no respect for the owner, Mr. Porter-- would have liked Eight Belles on Friday--as the second horse in the Oaks.

Bryce Be Quick 01 May 2008 8:53 PM

Slew: Youre probably right. To leave Pyro out of top spot would be dumb. I may change my mind. I might wind up doing away with exactas altogether, and just playing a 4,9,10/4,9,10/all, as my only ticket. I feel pretty confident in that.

jshandler 01 May 2008 9:31 PM

Bryce: Good analysis from you. You know my feeling on Adriano. I cant back him. Smooth Air was flying at end of Florida Derby. Im not in love with his breeding either, but I give him a chance to slop up for third or fourth. I agree on Eight Belles. She probably hangs mid-pack and falters coming out of final turn.

jshandler 01 May 2008 9:33 PM

I read in another blog that Prado committed to Adriano before the other two won their way in, so it was not really a choice of Adriano over them. Adriano will freak in the paddock and be done before he starts. I think Bob Black Jack is going to love the dirt like he loved the shaved down SA for the 6f record time win. Appears he can get the dist and will be a factor.

mjrat 01 May 2008 9:47 PM

Well here are my picks for what they're worth: 1) Denis of Cork 2) Z Fortune  3) Visionaire.  In the Oaks I really like #1 Golden Doc A.  Good luck everyone, let's all hope that the horses and jockeys all have safe trips.

Mike from Ossineke, MI 01 May 2008 10:47 PM

For the Oaks, we really like Pure Clan. If the track ends up wet (as rain may be in the forecast), Bsharpsonata may be the one to beat (and should pay a good price).

As far as the Derby, we like Big Brown, who is also the choice of many. There are people who are doubting the horse saying he's not experienced enough, didn't face any real competition, can't go wire to wire in the Derby, etc. However, I think we still haven't really seen what the horse can do. In his 3 easy wins, the horse was never really used. If he had someone pressing him, he could have ran even faster. Also, we like the fact

that his monster prep race was on a natural dirt surface. If it does indeed rain and give us a wet track, I think it would naturally help this speed horse. The 20 post will be tough though and will probably force him to the lead early and would eliminate any chance of trying to rate the horse a bit (as in his 2nd race). It is questionable why they didn't take one of the available inside posts when there would be no speed on his outside (I believe Justin mentioned this).

Enough about the chalk. We also like some longer shots. According to our analysis, Denis of Cork looks very strong. He may have been steadied in the Illinois Derby; it seemed as though he just didn't fire. This may seem like a surprise pick to many but if he puts out a performance like the Southwest, and can get the longer distance, he will be in the mix coming for home.

Also, don't rule out the filly. Eight Belles hasn't raced against the boys, but has a lot of experience and has shown some monster performances. Her last race in the Fantasy was much more impressive than most of the colts in their last preps. Also, she has some great workouts.

Gayego should also be considered, especially if the track ends up wet. We also think Recapturetheglory, Z Fortune, Smooth Air (2 for 2 on wet track),

and Colonel John should be used in Tri's and Super's.

WinningPonies.com 01 May 2008 11:04 PM

With all the speed predominantly drawn to the outside, I feel most of those will be comprimised, which should set this race up nicely for a stretch runner.  Colonel John will be in the 2nd flight of horses and ahead of Pyro.  Pyro has a huge kick home, but Colonel John has a pretty darn good kick himself and will get 1st run at the leaders and the jump on Pyro.  Colonel John wins the Derby with either Pyro, Z Fortune or Denis of Cork finishing 2nd.  Big Brown may wind up with the lead, but at what price?  The extra 1/8 of a mile in the Derby will no doubt cook Big Brown.  He may hold on for 3rd.

khare 01 May 2008 11:48 PM

Speed is carrying at Churchill and Col. John has no speed so I am tossing him.  Big Brown, Smooth Air,

Pyro.  The Florida Derby looks better all the time and Smooth Air can ride behind Big Brown in the lead.  Pyro will come clean up all those who tried to get the distance...aka. Col John, Gayego, and BBJ.  Good Luck.

draynay 01 May 2008 11:57 PM

For the record if you think Court Vision has a chance any chance at all I want you to know he has none.  If he hits the board I will never bet on another race in my life.  He is a slow Blackberry Road so even if his odds are 6 billion to 1 it will not matter he will not hit the board so please ... please stop talking about a horse that has no chance at all to even hit the board.

draynay 02 May 2008 12:12 AM

Big Brown heading uptown...20-19-18 box...see ya @ the window!!!Long Live The KING!!!

Bellwether 02 May 2008 1:03 AM

Big Brown, Smooth Air, Pyro, Visionaire.

draynay 02 May 2008 1:08 AM

Z Fortune to the house! I like a superfecta that is: 6,20/6,9,10,14,16,20/6,9,10/1,5,6,7,8,9,10,14,16,20

As you can see I think some chalk will hit the board in 3rd. Bombs away in 4th, go ZF.

wilson 02 May 2008 1:35 AM

Good analysis...but throw out Court Vision.  This horse hasn't improved since last year.  The winner is either Big Brown or Colonel John.  One has DOMINANT speed figures(Big Brown) and the other has a FABULOUS workout at CD! They seem in best position to improve off powerful wins.  They ARE in prime condition for this top level race.  Ask yourself this, when will I see Big Brown run "as fast as he can run?!"  Fast times and he's geared down?  Amazing!  How fast does this Ferrari run when he's whipped?!  Post bad, talent huge!  He's been compared to Curlin cuz of his inexperience but there IS a BIG difference!  The speed this horse possesses will place him near the front while Curlin had to run around & past every horse in the field!  Big Brown will stalk Bob Black Jack & Gayego, pounce on the far turn, and disappear from the closers.  I wouldn't be surprised if Desormeaux jumps out to the lead early and wires them after the first turn.  Play the exotics like this:

20/6,9,10,12,19/6,9,10,12,16,19

If Big Brown loses, he'll lose to a closer because he got blocked.  If so, play:

10/20/ALL

Good Luck to all!!!

craftylord 02 May 2008 4:29 AM

Excellent overview! You really pegged a lot of these horses.  I'm going to keep Anak Nakal in my exotics from top down, but otherwise it'll be Colonel John, Big Brown -- and now you've convinced me, I'm adding Court Vision.

sgillies 02 May 2008 8:12 AM

Love your analyses of the race and I think you're right on with your selections, although I'm still placing my bet on Smooth Air.  I think he's a gutsy little horse and I'm trying to find some value. I refuse to bet the favorite because you really can't win any money that way. However, I may place a $2 bet on Big Brown to win so I have souvenir just in case he turns out to be something great.  I hope the filly does well, oh heck, I hope she wins.  That would be awesome.

SlewFan 02 May 2008 8:48 AM

Gomez never had the choice on Colonel John he was always Nakatani mount, Gomez just filled in while Nakatoni was sidelined.

ilwacocapper 02 May 2008 10:28 AM

Prado chose Adriano simply because he rode him first. Tale of Ekati wasn't going to be his choice because he's too slow. The other option was Monba and I believe he chose wrong. His agent explained that since Prado had ridden Adriano first they decided to stick there. The two aren't far apart in talent and a jock has to consider future mounts with connections. Stalkers who can hang around legitimate fractions and finish well tend to win this race. That's where I like Monba,  ZFortune, and Court Vision. Adriano would fit here but I'm not convinced of his dirt form. Colonel John, Pyro, and Visionaire are the best closers and will be considered. I am in total agreement that Big Brown is to be used on top only and I will do some of that. Good luck to all!!

the wiz 02 May 2008 11:05 AM

I wouldn't be so quick to toss Bob Black Jack.  He's proven himself to be more than just a sprinter in his last race.  He was the only horse to hold on so well over that cushion track and if he likes dirt he should at least put in a solid effort.  As the speed horse with the best post position he can get exactly where he wants to be.  If other horses want to pass him -fine.  He doesn't need the lead.  

The main question is the dirt.  Especially if it's wet.

Katy 02 May 2008 11:51 AM

I usually stick to simple bets at the track. Can someone explain his bets to me. I understand trifectas and exactas, but the way he posted them is confusing to me. Thanks!

Redline 02 May 2008 12:01 PM

you all forget that the best horse does not always win the derby.  a good horse will win but there are so many variables any one of the 20 are capable.  why do you think one can no longer "bet the field"?so, don't consider suicide or self-inflicted injury because your choice didn't win or you don't cash.  enjoy the greatest 2 minutes in sports.  good luck with your wagers, however!

dbldwn 02 May 2008 2:06 PM

My picks are 1) #9 Pyro

            2) #10 Colonel John

            3) #6 Z Fortune

            4) #4 Court Vision

I'll be playing all exotic combinations with the four I picked along with a throwaway win bet on Pyro.

And in closing, I just want to thank Jason again for supplying this great blog for all of us to converse on.

Good luck Jason. You have a little one to put through college now!

Alex 02 May 2008 2:35 PM

Although I have not use for Eight Belles, I am tempted to throw a few dollars on her on the basis that she'll run like hell with 19 other horses with giant shlongs chasing her.

Thsi advice may not be as useful as Beyer figures but is sound nonetheless.

Good luck everybody and enjoy the show.

Alex 02 May 2008 2:52 PM

My Top 5 for the Derby (in order of finish) are:

1.  Colonel John

2.  Pyro

3.  Visionaire

4.  Big Brown

5.  Court Vision

And my Budweiser Longshot of the Race is:  Z Fortune.

Also I would have love to see a horse like Yankee Bravo in this race....so clearly I'm against the Top 20 Graded Earnings Rule for the KD.  Just food for thought...-..

Edgardo Barrera P. 02 May 2008 4:58 PM

KY.Oaks:Little Belle,Bsharpsonata,Proud Spell TRI.Box                            KY.Derby:Pyro/Adriano/Col.John/CCM TRI.,Super Box.

Slew.em.All 02 May 2008 5:24 PM

6:05 est 5-2-2008 kentuckyoaks.com posted the wrong horse winning the Kentucky Oaks.  They posted Bsharpsonota as the winner.  Yes, they spelled it wrong too.

Mike from Ossineke, MI 02 May 2008 6:07 PM

Waco, check the facts!!! Gomez's agent chose Vision...and dray NAY....your wagering on horses ends Saturday... but I think your fibbing. If you don't put Court Vision in the tri, try dog racing. Cause the DRF isn't your cup o tea.

jryan 02 May 2008 6:46 PM

I already have Monba in pool two of KDFW, so I'll use him again along with CV, Col J, and Denis. Currently alive in the double--used Proud Spell and Pure Clan and had them over my four horses for tomorrow.

Good luck to all...

sirbarton 02 May 2008 10:04 PM

Yo Jason it's Johnny Mas from back in your old stompin grounds back in Philly brother! I'll be at the Oaks Turf Club wishin you were here! You know I'm the King of the Derby Show Bet even though I took a crap in last years race because I always throw out the BC Juv Champ and finally after all these years one wins in Street Sense, I'm 11 of 15(73%)picking the show bet for this race 7 of which won.

I have two $50 win bets on Colonel John already, one for Pool 2 and one for Pool 3. I love him! I watched his Santa Anita Derby win and this horse is a BIG TIME RUNNER IN THE STRETCH.

Just to let everybody know a FACT OR TWO! This is the first 6 things I do before I even handicap whats left.

Rule 1...If a horse hasn't started in a race as a 2 year old throw it the hell out for a win bet. Odds and History on my side.

Rule 2...If a horse won the BC Juv last year throw that horse out for a win bet...yeah yeah it finally happened last year big deal once in over 20 years don't mean crap. Odds and History on my side. War Pass ain't running so this is easy.

Rule 3...If a horse didn't race 5 races in it's lifetime then throw it out also for a win bet. That's right dummies pick Big Brown and throw your money in the trash. The trainer even picked post 20...what a moron! You'll see Big Brown either gets caught wide or from post 20 he'll need to rush up to clear this field and no way has anything left in the stretch. Odds and History on my side.

Rule 4...It's in DA BLOOD BABY! If the horse doesn't have the proper dosage throw it out for a win bet also. It's only happened like 4 times in the last 100 years...I'll take those Odds and History on my side.

Rule 5...Throw out any horse who didn't win or place in a G1 race or win a G2 race this year as a 3 year old. This has been the most telling RULE in my book for years yet dummies keep betting other horses to win. Odds and History on my side.

Rule 6...Throw out any horse to win this race that wasn't 1st or 2nd at the 2nd to last call in their last race before Derby. Odds and History on my side.

***Know from what's left do your handicapping to find the winner.

Some good tips...did they race within 21-35 days, is it gonna rain(are they bred for the mud), Did they finish in the $$ in the last race, are they a gelding or filly, compare the beyer speed figs, did they race at 1 1/8 in the last race on the dirt, were they bred in Cal, Pa, Kent or Florida(you'd be surprised how many horses that were bred in this 4 states have won the derby),are the in the top 8 money earners lifetime and did they show any bullets while training at churchill before race.

Anyway, good luck to all!

Johnny Mas 02 May 2008 10:32 PM

Great insights. Once again, this is a terrific betting race. I like your thoughts on Big Brown.

The way I see someone addressing him on your tickets.

If you like him:

Key him on Top of your Trifecta with 1 of the other big 2 most will say are the contenders: Take a stand against one to run out of the $$. Then pick your value horse in the 2 & 3 slot, along with a bunch in the 3 slot. Very similar to what you have above.

If you want to really take a stand against, but are afraid of him, toss him into your Pick 3/4 ticket for some coverage.

Always makes sense to do that. 2 years ago, I like Barbaro a ton, and still employed that strategy, hitting him for the Pick 3. In fact, what you should do in your pick 3 is take BB, with Pyro & Col John, then toss in 3 more you like at a big price. Go 2x2 in the legs before with smaller field. A nice $24 Pick 3 that could pay off well!

trojan bill 02 May 2008 11:04 PM

Alex, finally someone with some sense about this race,congrats on your fore sight; What are the rest of you thinking?

LOOK AT THE PAST PERFORMANCES! STOP TRYING TO MAKE UP THINGS THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

OK, sorry but you are all letting this race drive you nuts.

This race will be won by Big Brown, no one else even comes close. Eight Belles will run second, What? you don't think this filly can run a mile and a quarter, Oh come on , she will never back up an inch in here. Compare her races to others in here, like Pyro at FG or Denis of Cork at OP, she is right there with them, only a mile and a quarter will be her coming out party.

 Colonel John runs third, he's the next best horse in here, should love a mile and a quarter, and has never run worse than second till now.

Cool Coal Man runs fourth , half his races have been out of the one hole and he has won 3 of those, toss the last one on poly and he shows up again at Churchill, loving every bit of a mile and a quarter on dirt. He's beaten a good many of these in past meetings already.

 There it is a 20-5-10-1 superfecta. Good Luck to all!

predict 02 May 2008 11:42 PM

1st Big Brown or Colonel 2end Monba 3rd Denis of cork 4th Pyro

Lets See What Happen's on the 3rd

Horse Lover 02 May 2008 11:55 PM

Them That's got, get's, big money horse's will roll.Good luck,i am with you all the way. Will subscribe to blood horse.

Big Daddy 03 May 2008 4:23 AM

Hammer - still betting favorites to show?

In true fraud tradition Jason backs another inept Californian.

The Picks:

Pyro

Monba

Visionaire

Jason - tell the Louisville Police Force I said hi.

Good luck to all.

Manoa Tommy 03 May 2008 10:16 AM

Big Brown may be a monster, but I believe he ran too big too soon. Based on my criteria, there are 3 contenders for a fast track.

1) Colonel John - set up for best effort.

2) Pyro - last can be forgotten.

3) Visionaire - although I don't like that he is not G1 placed.

Off track moves up Big Brown and Gayego.

mcaggo 03 May 2008 10:25 AM

Johnny Mas, although history is on your side for the most part, we have seen time and time again in recent years that history has been proven wrong.  In 1998, at the time of the race Real Quiet did not have the proper dosage of 4.0 or under to win the Derby.  However, amazingly after the race, his dosage was adjusted and somehow he was under that 4.0.  In 1999, Charismatic won the Derby after racing just 14 days before.  In 2004, Funny Cide won the Derby as a gelding.  I can't remember, but it had been a very long time since a gelding had worn the roses.  In 2005, Giacomo was 4th in his last prep and still won the Derby.  Heck, he was even still eligible for NX1 when he won!  I know the rule use to always be that a horse had to run at least a 100 Beyer prior to the Derby in order to have a shot to win the Derby.  Giacomo never had.  In 2006, Barbaro won the Derby off a 5 week rest.  The rule use to be they had to race 3 to 4 weeks prior to the Derby, not 5.  In 2007, Street Sense won the Derby off of 2 preps (rule was always at least 3) and he was the juvenile champion the year before (I know you mentioned that).  I guess my point is that although the "rules" are usually a good indication to go by when picking a Derby winner, they are not set in stone.  The game is changing.  If you go by all of the rules (3 preps as 3yo, previous Beyer of at least 100, more than 5 lifetime starts, break maiden as a 2yo, no worse than 4th place finish in last prep, dosage index, etc.) then your winner is either Eight Belles or Z Fortune!  Althoug I do like Z Fortune at a price to hit the board (I don't like Eight Belles at all) I think others are more capable for the win.

khare 03 May 2008 11:55 AM

If he gets good position early Big Brown should win easily.  But there has to be a reason that he has only three lifetime starts. He has had serious quarter crack problems. You don't keep a sound, fast horse in the barn!

This is not a very strong group of three year olds. When I saw Denis of Cork win so convincingly in Arkansas, he was my "derby" horse. But I have some concerns about how he has been handled since that race.

Visionaire will be right there at the finish. There is a great deal of early speed in this race so i  think a closer will run down the speed and I think that closer will be Visionaire!

Interstingly, no one gives Gayego much chance. He could sit close to the speed and take the lead at the turn and attempt to hold off the late speed. He is a very game horse

Wista 03 May 2008 1:06 PM

Here is how I attacked the Derby, I am going to place the bets now,  good Luck Everyone

$42 Bet  Trifecta Key the 9 with 10,20,16,6,19,12,8

$42 Bet  Trifecta Key the 20 with 9,10,16,6,19,12,8

$60 Bet  Trifecta Box  6,9,10,16,20

$40 Bet   Exacta Box 6,9,10,16,20

$20 Bet   Superfecta Key  20/9/ with 6,16,8,10,19,12

$18 Bet   Trifecta 9 with all with 10

$100 Bet  Win on 20

$18 Bet    10 with all with 16

$24 Bet   Superfecta Key 9 with 4,16,6,10

$24 Bet   Superfecta Key 10 with 6,8,19,9

$12 Bet   $1 exacta Box 1,8,16,4  

$20 Bet  $5 exacta Box 5,6 and 6,8

$60 Bet  $15 exacta Box 9,10  and 20,10

$20 Bet  $10 exacta Box 20,8

$12 Bet  $1 exacta Box 3,5,6,7

$42 Bet  Trifecta Key 10 with 9,20,16,5,19,4,8

$80 Bet  Extacta 20 with all  10 with all  9 with all  16 with all

Antman 03 May 2008 1:40 PM

Jason stand firm on your comments! I happen to agree with you about Pyro.I made my bets this morning on my way to work 10$ win-place on Dennis of Cork 2$ Ex box Tale of Ekati-Colonel John-Dennis of Cork-Big Brown. I feel that Pyro is past his peak.Good Luck all!!!!

Wanda 03 May 2008 3:50 PM

Well I guess we don't have to talk about Cali horses anymore do we.... or do you guys want to tell me how they ALL got a bad trip and they will when the Preakness....or the Belmont...or an Allowance race at Calder.....

draynay 04 May 2008 2:51 PM

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