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THAT WASN'T A CHEAP SHOT JUST ATRUTHFUL ONE!!  I'M JUST THANKFUL BIG BROWN IS NOT INJURED.

I love this horse and still believe that he can rock the track. I was a big War Pass fan, but I did fall in love with this guy when I saw him for the first time at the Florida Derby. I was hoping that he will sweep the TC without any question...My opinion about his poor performance? I would give 50% to lack of form (and training) caused by his quarter crack, 35% to lose shoe and 15% to other factors such as heat, ride ant overall discomfort. I hope he will return BIG in August and let us enjoy, for little bit more, his class and speed :-) Stay sound and go Brownie, go!!!

The three year old championship is still his.  The shoe will go down in triple crown history along with Bid's bandage pin incident, but the quarter crack's impact on BB's training will remain the major factor.  His Belmont run will remain the most puzzling of all of the tc contenders' efforts.  

I don't think the shoe was a big of a problem as the lack of training prior to a very grueling race, it sure didn't cause him to be last.  The jockey pulling him up (and I find it hard to believe he did that without instructions from the connections as an alternative plan if he wasn't going to win or place) and probably the lack of a distance pedigree caused the problem.  Part of me is glad he didn't win the triple crown because in my experience horses with reoccuring quarter cracks get them because of a problem with their confirmation and for that reason they shouldn't be included in the gene pool.  However, we all know he is going to be and therefore that is bad for racing as a whole.  I say this as someone who would love to see a triple crown winner, I was a young girl when Secretariat won and I would love my daughter to see something like that, nothing else compares.  I think the horse is an outstanding individual but he would have to race over a number of years before I would think he is a great one.

I feel Browns problem was all at the start of the race. To Begin with he broke badly, veering to the right and almost bumping another horse. As a result of this he found himself enclosed with no chance of getting the position he wanted by the first turn. Brown was obviously bothered as indicated by his taking hold of Desormoux. By the time he split horses and got position, although not ideal position, the horse was stressed and frustrated. He left his race from the starting gate to the first turn. You can fault this one to the proverbial bad trip that was directly related to post position.

Was it the shoe? I don't think so, other horses have won with the same shoe issue so I don't think this is an excuse that I would want on my horse. I think that there were a lot of other issues going on for Big Brown that day and if he had been a two year old running the way he did I think quite a few would have chalked it up to inexperience coming through. Let the horse be and let's see what he does in his next race.

When I ride, I know pretty fast if my horse has a problem with one of his feet.  Even a small stone lodged beneath his hoof can alter his gate.  I'm sure if the shoe was causing problems, Desormeaux would have known about it immediately.  I think the big guy's training schedule was altered because of the quarter crack and he therefore wasn't in peak form on a hot day at Belmont.  Big Brown is an awesome horse, but no better than any of last year's top three year olds: Curlin, Hard Spun, Street Sense and Rags to Riches.  What a year 2007 was!

It's funny how no one else on this blog or other ones I look at has mentioned like I did here that simply put, Big Brown does not like being pelted with dirt. He drew the rail, got trapped along the rail by D'Tara and Tale Of Ekati, and had no where to go. He had never been put in that position before and did not react favourably to it.

I've been following racing on and off for about 35 years and racing finally has its version of the Zapruder film for fans to speculate and build conspiracy theories for years to come.

Are you telling me that Richard Dutrow who has been traning horses for years did not discover the loose shoe immediately after the race when he insisted that he went over the horse with a fine tooth comb to determine why he ran so badly?  Just another excuse for a poor training job when Dutrow did not use his usual steroid cocktail and God knows what else he makes his horsed ingest before they run.

yes the shoe was the issue..  if you watch the race you can see where he is hurting from the nail.  

Could the shoe have been a problem?  Certainly!  Not as far as causing discomfort as in tiring him.  A shoe that is loose can pick up dirt in it.  Just pulling it through the dirt could cause him to tire.  Add in everything else and it is a possibility.  Was it the cause?  We will never know for sure.  I guess we can just call it the Domino effect (no relation to the horse).

From my long experience with horses I believe Big Brown broke well but was startled by seeing a person directly in front of him out on the track.  Horses are spooky by nature.  When they see something that they are not expecting they are prone to shy away from it.  We do not gate train horses with someone standing out on the track in front of them.  It is clear that Big Brown was startled at the first jump out of the gate.  He shied into the path of the #2 horse who clipped his outside rear hoof loosening the shoe.  He came out of the gate hot, was startled, was clipped by another horse and so became very rank. Why the stater was out on the track instead of up in the starter stand off the track is not understood by me. The starter needs to explain.    

I have never seen so many excuses for a horse losing a race.  He lost, it's over.  You can't go back and say hey, he had a loose shoe so let's give him the Triple Crown because he would have won it.

Okay, I also realize that so many people saw this horse demolish previous competition and are looking for a reason for the loss.  I understand that.  I've heard several excuses.  Desormeaux's ride...I don't think his ride was terrible.  I think he did what he had to do and wanted to get the horse out of trouble.  I don't really understand why he eased and didn't let him run to the finish.  I thought it was because he was sure something was wrong with the horse but then he said nothing was wrong.  The shoe problem...no...Kent would have realized something was wrong if it was a factor.  The horse's stride would have been affected if he was in pain or the shoe was bothering him. Kent would have felt that on the back stretch.  He didn't mention it.  The heat, yes, that could bother him but it would have bothered all of the horses, don't you think?  The lack of training.  Well, that could have something to do with it but they were fighting a quarter crack and had to be careful.  The horse was plenty fit and only needed maintenance.  Smarty Jones was not worked alot between the Preakness and the Belmont but came in second at least.  If the quarter crack caused

a problem with the training and the horse wasn't ready for that race, then he should have been scratched.  Why risk the horse?  

I actually think it was two factors.  The first one being that he was not injected with steriods for about 6 weeks.  It takes time for drugs to leave the horse's system when they are administered regularly.  This is just a guess on my part but I think he was grouchy and unhappy the day of the Belmont after viewing his antics in the holding barn.  They spoke about how rough he was that last week.  Could possibly be it.  Second, he had the bad trip which he hadn't had before and only having 5 previous races he rebelled and didn't want to go, he was angry.  Yes, there are several excuses you can use to understand the loss.

Now, let's see how he does in the Haskell.  Things may be different because some of the other 3 year olds are maturing now and may be better competition for him.  Also, other riders may try boxing him in now that they know he doesn't like it.  He may do okay or he may not.  As long as he is in the clear, he will probably win but it is horse racing and you never know.

I didn't think Big Brown would win the Triple Crown.  I didn't think he had enough foundation under him.  It an almost impossible task.

The closest was Real Quiet who lost by a nose and I don't think he was as good as Big Brown.

Now, let's forget about the Belmont and not find anymore excuses for the loss. It's a done deal and there is nothing that can be done about it.  There is no shame in losing that race.  Lots of horses have.  Time to move on and see how the second half of the year goes.

yes, his shoe was loose......but who caused it? he himself! not on purpose, but he ran into the maiden, and the maiden stepped on his foot. look at the pics. desormeax had a horrible ride, and BB ducked.

I've seen horses that are not great still run on a loose shoe. if he's as good as everyone thinks, a shoe would not make a difference.

Of course it wasn't the shoe. In fact, the shoe was ideally situated on the rear hoof. This is actually what owners, trainers, jockeys, and farriers (is that word still used?) want. If they could set that one rear shoe at just that precise angle (with the perfect downward bend) and get consistent results, they would do so every time.  Aren't there BSFHLS (Beyer Speed Figures for Horses with Loose Shoes)?  

It's just too hard to get that exact loose shoe placement and make it stick, so darned if they don't just typically nail the things down, the slackers. But getting another horse--during the race--to place the shoe in perfect position while still keeping the nail in--now that was the big trick. Too bad all the horses at the Belmont didn't have this advantage. I'm sure the winning time would have been better than a mere 2:29.65, or whatever.  

You can't quantify an injury that didn't happen.

Horses adapt to all kinds of stuff.

They compensate, use other parts of their body harder.

For example landing a little harder on the left front.

Forget the triple crown. The horse came home sound and is probably eating his dinner as I write this.

In my country-Peru- the "Starter" is on top of a portable tower next to the rail and outside the track.

Evidence shows that Big Brown got spooked at the starter that was inside the track ! and charge towards the outside (away from the starter) getting stepped on by Guadalcanal adnd bending the shoe that had turndowns (Farriers turn down the end of the shoe with the shaping hammer for more traction).

I'm a full time Farrier with 26 years of experience (www.CocoCaballo.com); I was the official Farrier for the 2008 "Latinoamericano de Jockey Clubs -Copa Falabella G-I " - South American version of the Breeder's Cup-

Have you ever seen an Indy, F1 or Nascar stock car blowing up a tire at the start and finishing the race on that blown tire ? NOPE !

In my experience as a Farrier of many G-I winners , I have never,ever seen a horse winning a race with a shoe in those conditions. Is NOT an excuse, it is a FACT! plain and simple,  that's all !

I think the ride was the real problem, plus lack of steriods and conditioning. HOWEVER, at the same time, many horses can run with a loose shoe, my own horse can finish out galloping a course with a dislodged shoe ect, but that varies horse to horse, we all know Brown has crummy feet, therefore they are more sensitive, and if the nail was bouncin into the foot upon impact, it may have just made him turned off from running enough to suck back and give nothing. Who knows, too bad Brown cant talk seeing as his trainer is a...well...we all know

For me, the start to the first turn was the race.  Sure, BB flinched at the starter allowing some outsiders to start to close.  However, Desormeaux pulling the horse right and then pushing the button to run BB up into another horse getting a bit roughed up and then jerking BB between to horses to get to the outside was, simply, a horrendous ride and losing tactic.  Had the jock chosen to push button BB straight forward to the front there was ample room to be there with the leader on the rail.  The pulling BB right and then push button him rather than push button him straight to the front is what cost the horse to lose.

Well first let me remind everyone that War Admiral grabbed a quarter at the start of the Belmont and still won by many bleeding all the way. That being said I do believe however that the shoe and the placement of the nail as Big Brown ran his race could have been a major factor. If the starter had not been on the track Big Brown would not have ducked out at the break. If BB had not have ducked out at the break the other horse would not have stepped on him. All of this agitated BB which caused him to be uncharacteristically rank. That caused Kent to fight him and the race was lost.

Lesson learned: There are no guarantees in life, no foregone conclusions. Fate steps in and finds a way to humble even the most arrogant.

I have considered the Belmont for some time. I know Big Brown had a quarter crack that probably affected his traing. However, when he finished the Preakness he was hardly blowing and the announcers even remarked that he did not look like a horse that had just finished running a mile and 3/16ths. He was obviously fit.

I do not feel Big Brown was given the opportunity to run his race. The starter standing pretty far out ON THE TRACK WEARING A BLUE BLAZER AND WHITE PANTS obviously spooked him and caused him to bear in on the maiden horse.

I do not think this matter has been answered satisfactorily at all.  It make me wonder if someone "arranged" that so that Big Brown would have a lesser chance of winning.  The starter knew Big Brown was in the one hole and going for a Triple Crown shot so what was he doing on the track in WHITE pants?  I know he understands how easy it is to spook a high strung Thoroughbred.

I wish the New York Racing Association would investigate this matter.

Does it really matter at this point? Loose shoes happen all the time and horses still manage to finish fine, even win in some cases. Isn't it about time to let this go? He clearly shouldn't be compared to the likes of Seattle Slew and Secretariat like we (the media especially, but also all those fans so desperate for a Triple Crown they'd pin their hopes on a horse with so little experience) were so quick to do. He's still a Derby and Preakness winner and no one can take that away from him. But, I'd venture to say some good horses in the past have won facing worse...I can think of a few examples but there's no sense in going over them again.

Please. Let's move on. I won't even blame this on Dutrow, even though he was obviously busy concerning himself with doping his other horses. Big Brown got stepped on and the shoe came loose. But he didn't win, the thing was almost 3 weeks ago and it's time to move on.

Congrats Da'Tara, you won wire to wire.

Thank goodness for the true greatness that is Curlin.

Judy,

Beautifully said!

The SHOE incident was a very real problem! Try running in high heels, with no heel on one of the shoes and the nails that held it in play poking you in the heel of your foot, that is basically what Big Brown was doing. The horse has all the heart in the world and deserves to be 3 yr old of the year!! I am also in love with this horse and if I could find (and afford) a mare to breed to him that would have a genetic road block for his "soft" feet I would do it in a heartbeat!! I can't wait to see him run in the Travers and most of all the Breeders Cup at Santa Anita!

Geez - give it a break.  The race was lost and the excuses are not going to change it.  As far as I'm concerned BB was off his Winstrol for just enough time to clear his system, hence his agitation and performance.  If a horse (or any animal) is well and fit there is no need for drugs to enhance appetite, shine his coat and the myriad of excuses for just going through your stable every month and shooting everyone up regardless.  I see IEAH has made the statement that "none of their horses will be given steriods of any kind".  Let's see how long this stays in effect.  Yesterday!

The loose shoe was the major factor in him losing the race,but not the only one.Not only his shoe but in the picture the back bandage is turn up just feet after the start...My father had a real great 2year old in Colombia and in one race his shoe hung the entire race,he lost his only start and it all was because of the shoe hanging,it bothered the horse but he wasn't hurt or injured,it just didn't let him race the same as Big Brown.I think it is a big factor especially for a horse like Big Brown who is so stocky and muscular up top and Great horses sense a minor difference in footing there is no doubt about that.Not only that but alot of people tore down Big Brown,if u look back at the race it was like if he was not ment to win that day at all.The starter spooked him,he hits that one horse at the start and the shoe comes loose and then he hits Tale of Ekati on the first turn,to much obstacles just before the first turn. I want to see that Haskell....Show them up Big Brown..

War Admiral won the Belmont when he tore a part of his hoof off. I put more blame on a very weak training program that left alot out as far as conditioning for a mile and a half.  

Although I am glad that some of this speculation about BB's poor performance has a new angle, I am angry that no one seems to be looking as closely into Eight Belles. Maybe careful examination of photos would clarify what happened to cause the loss of the beautiful filly's life.  Instead we are harping about spilt milk over another failed bid for the Triple Crown. Where are our priorities? Many people noticed Eight Belle's sharply jerk her head to the right before the race was over. No one appears to want to examine photos to see if she stumbled, was stepped on, etc...

Lets stop with the excuses, he is just not the great horse everyone made him out to be. At this point he should not be catagorized in the same calibur as the real and true greats of the racing world.

I agree with Katherine and her comments about the starter. Yes it is time to move forward. I don't much like BBs human connections but I think BB is a terrific horse. I am optimistic that he will vindicate himself on the track when his "people" can get it together.

it was just a rough day for Big Boy & the H2O...the game is still on it's way back to the top of the sport's world where it belong's...stay tuned...LLTK!!!

Frank the Horseman and Katherine,

Ya'll beat me to the punch line!  What was the starter doing??  It seems to me that the series of events that lead to BB's poor showing started with that spook and yes, this needs to be investigated.  All of you in this blog that race know that what the starter did (and what he was wearing) was not protocol.  Take a look at that shot in the slide-show.  Also, the word is that BB is a no-sweater, so no wonder he had trouble given the conditions that day.  All of us with horses like this know how this can inhibit performance.  I find these factors much more compelling than bad training (I strongly disagree) or a poor ride or a looose shoe or lack of steroid help.

That said, I am so happy we have not seen the last of Big Brown on the track and am looking forward to a rebound in the Haskell!  

I definitely think it was a combination of the shoe (which as a horsewoman, I know a shoe like that can cause a great deal of pain, especially with the nail still there) and the grueling Triple Crown series!  Changes need to be made to the Triple Crown if we are ever to see another winner.  Big Brown was by far the best chance we've had in years, if not decades, and he couldn't pull it off.  The quality of horse running them NOW versus when Affirmed won is totally different, the horses actually have to have proven themselves on the track and won stakes races (at least to get into the Derby).  To expect a horse to win 3 grueling races in 5 weeks is ludicrious!  Even the great Curlin couldn't pull it off last year.  Changes need to be made.

But as for Big Brown, imagine running with a nail poking you in the foot with every step you take on that foot.  You wouldn't want to run either.  Desormeaux did NOTHING wrong in that race and should not be getting attacked for it.  Dutrow trained Big Brown the way he trained him for all the other races, so he is faultless in this, other than stopping the Winstrol too soon.  It came down to the shoe and being totally exhausted.

Good grief here we go again. The owners of this colt have set an all time record for excuses. Deep track, hot day, bad ride, starter on the track and now a loose shoe. Then all the folks who don't train or own RACE horses chime in and the farrier from wherever. Shoes come off a lot.Sometimes you catch it before the race and replace the shoe, horses pull the shoe, (racing plates are light weight) they run without a hind shoe, loose shoe none of that really matters if you have a superior horse or just a horse with heart. A lot of starters stand on the track, that's why you school your horses at the gate, there's always activity around the gate. Gary Brinson in California always stands right where the starter of the Belmont did. Missed training time is the most likely culprit and who knows about the steroids. That brings up a whole other subject with the IEAH policy on drugs,my guess for the grandstanding was trying to separate themselves from Ricky before the suspension was handed down. This tells a lot about him, how arrogant to have a positive in an stakes race on the undercard on racings biggest day and double the limit. Pretty funny reading when IEAH said they would pay for pre and post race testing. huh??? They may have to get a different trainer because Ricky talked about all the meds he gives and the reasons for them. Then Iavarone saying racing is perceived on a level with pro wrestling when they and Rick are the Vince McMahon's. Gary Stevens had to say something, IEAH is paying him as an advisor, thus the discomfort of a lost shoe comment.

One of my clients posted on this site briefly and said here and to anyone that would listen that this horse's connections are the worst thing to happen to racing in years and I think that has proven to be true. IEAH, just say your colt didn't run as expected and you're coming back. Then he he falls on his face again it's just like a lot of us think, good horse, mediocre competition. And what was Bob Baffert's deal with the 'best horse he's seen since he's been in racing'? Holy cow, I don't know if he didn't make it to the barn in time to ever see Silver Charm or Point Given or what he was focused on when he said this, plus he's a West Coast guy (well sort of) and this is a strictly East Coast/Midwest Colt.  

I do not think this matter has been answered satisfactorily at all.  It make me wonder if someone "arranged" that so that Big Brown would have a lesser chance of winning.  The starter knew Big Brown was in the one hole and going for a Triple Crown shot so what was he doing on the track in WHITE pants?  I know he understands how easy it is to spook a high strung Thoroughbred.>>

Katherine, I'm intrigued, who is this 'someone' who decided to fix a race in front of an audience of thousands with such an obvious tactic?  Maybe we should call Oliver Stone in to make a movie...

Talking to a close friend of mine who's a highly respected farrier over here in the UK, he told me that certainly the loose shoe COULD have affected BB; however it would have been obvious to Desormeaux that he was running on 3 legs - especially with it being a hind shoe - it would have affected his gait, he likened it to a car driving on ice.  As for the nail, well if that was troubling him he'd have felt lame.  No doubt at all.  There'd have been heat/bruising after the race too, so it would have been obvious.

Are we forgetting it was a deep track and those shoes are most likely aluminum.  A stong enough person can bend them with their hands.  Ive looked at the photos, and I dont see a loose shoe, I see a bent one.  Yes, possibly could have been a little uncomfortable, on hard ground.  But on a deep track?  I'm a little suspicious about the whole situation.  What are the odds he was going to come in dead last?  Now imagine those bets behind closed doors.  Look at the ride, think of the odds...

are you talking about bill shoemaker?

i'm a fan of Big Brown, he's a great horse whatever happened in the Belmont. What he did til now is already brillant anyway! Just one thing to me all horses in training should be free of drugs except if he realy needs it for health problems. But this is my opininon!!

The shoe incident for Brown was a very real problem, one comparable to running in high heels with one heel missing on one of the shoes???  And you would know this how?  You're kidding right?  This is the funniest analogy I've ever read.  The horse wasn't prepared in any way shape or form for that day.  Period.  He may well be a good horse and will prove it later, but there was no way he was going to win the Belmont on June 7, 2008.

I STILL TINK THERE IS NO MYSTERY, BB CLIPPED HEALS WITH THE #2, ISAID IT RACE DAY RIGHT AT THE START... I DON'T THINK WE REALLY GOT TO SEE HIS FULL POTENTIAL. THANKFULLY HE WILL RACE AGAIN.

"True Greatness"? "Steve Asmussen"?, Do'nt even try to talk about Big Brown, with Asmussen's history with suspensions. Hopefully we can see these two beasts run on the same track, unless Curlin decides to run on a "different track". GO BIG BROWN

Training, training, training

I wish people would quit whining and looking for "excuses". The horse got his butt handed to him.

Where are all the photos of the others in the race? You can't tell me they didn't encounter something unusual in their run. Big Brown nearly took out the maiden at the start but he still managed to beat Brownie. That could have cost him a higher placing and some purse money but I don't hear his connections whining. The fact of the matter is Big Brown faced adversity for the first time after having run virtually spotless races and he spit the bit. Maybe he doesn't have the heart to overcome those kind of issues where others in the past have. He is still so lightly raced against terribly weak competition and is unlikely to race more than 1 or 2 times more in his life so will will never know how good or not he really is. Kudos for winning the Derby and Preakness but keep in perspective he beat only members of his class and that class stinks so far. He has now also been whipped by members of the very same weak class.

What are we looking for here other than excuses? Should we re-run the race? It's over and official. Time to move on and get over it. Big Brown is not the second coming. Throughout history

and before the advent of hundreds of camera angles there certainly have been others who encountered similar problems. Some of them overcame and some like Brownie  weren't great enough to do so.

I think the shoe was definitely a problem.  So much so that Jill Burn (I think it was) said that she thought he was off in the right hind while being pulled up.  It turns out that she was right.

However, the shoe incident alone was not the only factor in Big Brown's loss.  The limited training as a result of his quarter crack played a major role.  You simply cannot condition a horse for a mile and a half race on one slow work in 3 weeks.

And who knows what Dutrow substituted for the steroids that he is supposedly no longer using.  Clenbuterol maybe?

The loose shoe was certainly a factor.  However, you can plainly see Big Brown shy coming out of the gate as someone (the starter) was standing right in front of him in the one path.  As he shy's he lugs out into the 2 path and a maiden horse, who broke even slower, clips heels and bends Browns back shoe.  He then gets pinned on the rail and unlike the Preakness, he can't relax as he undoubtedly feels his back shoe clanking around.   He is never able to relax as his shoe is loose, the whole way around. There is a reason most professional human runners don't run in flip flops.  Desormeaux knows his horse is not running and something is wrong with his normal gate so he has to pull him up.  How could he not? On the heels of Barbaro, George Washington and Eight Belles, there is no way he could have known it was a loose shoe and not something more significant.  Get the starter off the track and keep maidens out of Grade 1's and he at least has a chance to make history.  Let's only hope is feet hold up and he can redeem himself as he is no doubt one of the fastest and most talented horses to run in quite a while.  

EXcuses,excuses thats all i hear here, shoe is a Long way from his heart. please.Monica you said it right, this horse had no bottom at all, two breezes, and in the box to race, a joke. that is how good this horse is, anyone believe me any one could of done as good or better job with this horse, horse training is not rocket scientists work. just got to know more than the horse.

All I know is that if you are paying a shoer 1,500.00 bucks a pop to shoe your horse they better stay on. I would always pick their feet and pack them with mud after they run so I assume the groom of BB knew he had a loose shoe behind.Saying that,I know for a fact that they can and will run on a loose shoe.Folks this horse had foot problems all spring and I think they were crossing their fingers at some point and hoping for the best.I agree with some comments that the horse got himself beat.The Triple Crown is the toughest grind there is for 3 year olds. The mental attitude needed is so important and I think in part the lack of seasoning came into play. Remember Curlin danced this dance last year but he came around very quickly in the Preakness and Belmont.BB is still a pretty nice 3year old and I for one would like to see him run again. Like they say "throw that one out".

I agree totally with SpringsMom. It all goes back to 'Why was the starter on the track?'. He caused the chain of events that robbed BB of the Triple Crown. How about a rematch?

big browns loss was disappointing but when he demolishes his compitition in the Haskell everyone will forget about the belmont and call him a champion again

in the belmont the horse wansnt happy from the start and you could tell, he normally is pricking his ears and looks happy when he runs, this rume his ears were pinned to the back of his head, he was angry. as soon as he left the starting gate there was someone in his way and he got scared bumping the 2 horse and his shoe becoming loose and now hes being hit with a nail in his back foot the whole time with his already sensetive feet. then he tried to get closer to the pace and got kicked by da'tara then once he moved to the outside take of ekatis jockey was focused on onlykeepingbig brown in the center of the track so he was running in sand basically.

thats like someone whos runnig on a track next to you kicks you and forcing you to run in sand with flip-flops.

no matter how good you are; your not gonna win

and with this whole he wasnt on setroids thing, he was a speical horse before that; whenhe was with his first owner he blew away the field and he wasnt no anything.and he was off steroids for a while before the belmont

but i hope dutrow learned a lesson and that theres no foregone conclusions in racing. i hope IEAH stables replaces dutrow with a trainer like Zito or Matz, a modest trainer who knows what their doing with horses

I was blessed with owning and campaigning a top caliber ,multiple graded stakes winning millionaire with absolutely horrendous feet. More Equilox than real hoof , glue ons, etc..he won , tenaciously,and without ill effects almost every race, loosing one or both front shoes...springing them behind, etc...while I would surely say it's not a positive, it is certainly NOT a deal breaker to the extent that this situation is being proffered up. heart trumps a lot of things, adreneline hides most all pain from a horse in the midst of competition..highly unlikely that shoe situation would cause the drastic reversal in form Big Brown displayed, as I dont think anyone would accuse him of being "heartless and unable to run through some comprimising physical circumstances" He's an awesome athelete, gifted and a stellar competitor..sorry, not buying the shoe thing..at all, echoes of safety pin bru-ha-ha ring in my head .

Training? Starter? Shoe?

Dirt in face? Heat? Deep Track?

If BB wins the Haskell, then its all of the Above!(chances are none of the causes will repeat). If he fails to show - Then its the steroids!!

It's all in the Haskell!!!

Watch the video closely.  It was the worst ride I've even seen. I was also surprised to see the starter on the track. Kent should have kept him on the rail at least thru the first turn and then let him run his own race. While I realize he had to pull him up before he ran over the lead horse, there was no need to yank him all over the track. Gotta believe the loose shoe bothered BB also. And to pull him up at the end was EMBARRASING! Brown fought him all the way.  So many are putting this horse down - but he DID win the Derby and the Preakness. Anyone remember that?  There are MANY horses that never won the Belmont/Triple Crown and went on to make their own mark in racing history.  Guess we'll see what he can do in the next couple of months. Go Big Brown!  

It was inevitable Draynay would latch on to the excuses. Blame the maiden when it was the Big Ole Browneye who almost took him out by veering right? As for getting boxed in that is part of racing and every horse faces that, Brownie just couldn't handle it like a champ. Get a life. The best Derby ever? That was a mediocre time put up against a bunch of weakling 3 yr olds. The Fla. Derby full of talent? Laughable, still a bunch of weak 3 yr olds of which a couple have gotten better SINCE then but at that time were nothing. It doesn't matter what another horse does 3 months down the road if when you face him he he's not ready or hasn't reached what will be his top form and you have. Brownies run against creampuffs outside of Eight Belles and she was not far behind him while not even the best 3 yr old filly at that time. Some will develop from the time he faced them but the reality is none were very good when he beat them. The only way they got their previous wins was that they were also facing a weak bunch and one of them had to be a winner. Whine all you want, grasp any excuse like Brownie's the only horse in history to have had trouble, the great ones overcome and he got his butt handed to him.

He hasn't proven anything except that he beat up on a horribly weak group and they've now beaten him up some too.

I believe the reason for the shoe on 'BB' to become bent or loose is a result of Desormeaux's decision to get outside of horses on the first turn in the Belmont, instead of having patience and waiting until they swung onto the backside to get out if he was so intent on doing so. The shoe may have been a contributing factor however I think a combination of other things led to "BB's" loss, for example: three days of missed training, only one work between the Preakness and Belmont, no shot of Cintrol, oh and a horrible ride. I'm not degrading Desormeaux however the Belmont stakes was the worst ride I ever saw in a major race, by anyone including ronnie Franklin. At least 'Bid' hit the board in the Belmont.

I think Nick Zito said it the best when he said that Big Brown did not run his race, his horse did.

I believe many of the other comments contributed to him loosing, the steroids I think played in a factor as did the toll of 3 races so close together, lack of training also a possibility.

As for the shoe I have to agree to a point but I remember Skip Away ran in Gold Cup and raced hard while the Mandella duo horses one was Gentleman I believe. That day he pulled his shoe off during the race so he ran with 3 shoes along with having some issues after getting loose the prior week of the race, and still managed to pull off a win with 3 shoes........ I feel the shoe was probably not as bad as the pictures showed.

Look forward to seeing him race again in the Haskell.

Sorry I don't buy the "out to get him theory".Hey that's horse racing if you get a bad trip or a rider skrews up.KD had time to get out of trouble, plus he was on a ton of horse.If the nail was bothering him he would not have walked off sound.

Wanda, his front 'shoes' cost 550 per set. He has regular racing plates on the hind.

Draynay, Please let the Haskell get here soon 8/3 is too far away, although the steroid ban by IEAH doesn't go into effect until 10/1/2008,hmm. Yes the colt won the Derby and the Preankness, yippee. It's been addressed over and over: times, Beyer, competition(or lack thereof). Also, he did not pull the shoe off,  what we say is the shoe was 'sprung' and as soft and pliable as racing plates are it went back in place a couple of strides later RD said it was spread but was back in place, no blood no bruising, nothing The deep track- Rick asked them to keep it deep because of the quarter crack, he wasn't fit enough due to missed training, the best excuse that RD had and he biffed it. Michelle, the colt was purchased at the April Keeneland 2 yr old in training sale,if you keep up with all of this you know what everyone is saying happens when horses get to their barns from these sales.  Another colt J Be K showed the same amazing turn of foot and is a nice sprinter.

(Lance & TuTu, I took a break to do bookwork, maybe you notice my first post at 4:09 A.M.)

Jason, that wasn't a cheap shot, it's called gumption. Even though you alienated one of my owners, props to you on the RD blowhard situation. I caught ESPN at 3:00 this morning and they're much rougher on RD than you were, another humiliation for racing and now the Asmussen revisited deal.

EXCUSES...WELL WHEN YOU HAVE  A LOW TIRE WITH A SMALL DENT AND YOU ARE RACING FOR SOMETHING THAN YOUR CHANCES ARE  SLIM TO BAD OF WINNING REGARDLESS OF COMPETITION.AND OF COURSE THAT IS AN EXCUSE,HE LOST YEA,SO DID SECRETARIAT,MAN O WAR,CITATION,NEARCO,BUCKPASSER,AFFIRMED I CAN KEEP GOING...ONE MORE THING,COMPARE THE AMOUNT OF HORSES(COMPETITION) THAT IS OUT THERE TODAY TO THE 1900'S,1920,1940,1960,1970,1980,1990..THERE IS MUCH MORE COMPETITION NOW THAN EVER IN NUMBERS,JAPAN HAS HIGH CLASS RACING,HONG KONG,AUSTRALIA,EUROPE,SOUTH AMERICA AND O YES DUBAI..SOMETIMES WE FAIL TO REALIZE THAT MAN O WAR RAN AGAINST THE BEST IN NEW YORK AND THAT IS NOT HIS FAULT,EVERYTHING IN LIFE ADVANCES BUT THE MASSES GET BIGGER AND THAT IS A FACT.LETS GIVE BIG BROWN AND CURLIN A LITTLE BIT MORE RESPECT FOR THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS...IS IT EVER HARDER NOW TO WIN THE DERBY AND WORLD CUP THAN IT WAS TEN YEARS AGO AND BEFORE THAT....YES!!!!

To Atthebarn2 I read on this website(Bloodhorse.com) that was the amount it cost to fly him out and shoe him.And yes he had regular plates on behind but they were turndowns which are legal in New York.One question,do you leave out a nail with turndowns? I don't see why but I don't know cause they don't run with turn downs here.

Draynot you put the nail on the head(no pun intended).

I read all these comments and agree with some and disagree with others. Pre race, no meds. Most people who are taken off something after being on it forever...feel like crap. Horses? Who knows. Being a little cranky, I know my cousins horse was Cantankerous as heck for a while after being clean.

Spooked to the right out of the gate, got stepped on. Shoe offset. Gets kicked as the Jockey runs him up into the back of another horse. Ok so thats a pretty good handful right there.

The thing that I noticed during the whole race was he seemed constantly fighting the jockey. His head was constantly jerking and he never seemed to get that stretch of the neck that we saw in previous races. He was holding his own finally on the outside where we thought we would see that beautiful stretching stride take over. But his head pulled back and to the right again and he never got it going. At the same time he started dropping off as the Jockey pulled him off. To me....something was bothering him....what only he knows. The wife brought up that his head actions looked like something was not right from the start.

Can't wait to see him run again or just watch him enjoy the rest of his life.  

When I read the dislodged shoe story and that BB may have been running on a nail, my first thought was "I thought they glued his shoes on" because of the quarter crack problems.  Wouldn't having 1 shoe glued and 3 shoes nailed make the horse unbalanced? (I'm being sarcastic here.)

The loss was caused by many things, but truly great horses persevere to do what it takes to win.  BB is not yet in that category. Thankfully, he was not seriously injured and still has the opportunity to prove himself.

My personal belief is that the loss was caused by a combination of:

1) BB's inexperience mentally - he got frustrated with jockey, circumstances, etc. and shut down,

2) lack of stamina - whether due to training or breeding, and

3) the fact that he was running without the benefit his normal steroid injection.

Dutrow said he only gives his horses Winstrol to make their coats shiny and encourage them to clean up their feed dishes better. Excuse me, but doesn't more food help equate to bigger muscles? Steroids also helps muscles repair tissue and recover faster.

Also, if BB had been running on a nail, wouldn't that have led to a puncture wound with bleeding, or at the very least a bruise or some lameness? I also thought of War Admiral catching himself and tearing a portion of hoof off as well.  

Enough with the excuses. Not sure who said it earlier, but the other horses also would have stories to tell as to their performance in the race and what might have been!

Thanks for the forum!

Wanda, I don't recall seeing that he left a nail out, I saw that BB pulled the shoe lose. McKinlay is the high dollar hoof specialist and his job was fine although they wanted to shoe him on Saturday morning and RD vetoed that for Friday. A regular farrier plated him on the back, if they chose to fly their own in, so be it. Turn downs are kind of prone to being pulled off, it happens a lot, his was just sprung. I was interested in your technique of packing mud in a hoof, i've heard of painting them but never packing mud, usually try to get rid of that. Is it a special mud? They do things different up North I guess. I could ask my Dad how they did it in the old days. Danylson, The ultimate comparison, running time.

It's getting harder to win because the trend to breed for speed then run at a distance. And most of the experts including Trainers who have won all three races are saying conditioning yes, the shoe, definitely a stretch there.

I think there were two major factors. First, as others have mentioned, he did not react well to being in tight quarters etc. That can be a function of lack of experience or simply his disposition. It somewhat reminds me of Bernardini who was a monster as long as no one actually challenged him but melted when confronted by Invasor. Second, BB was off his routine due to the quarter crack and off his meds, and of course horses thrive on predictable routines. Given that nobody remarked upon the shoe in the immediate aftermath of the Belmont, I think it's an excuse. Out of all of this, I think that the jockey has gotten a lot of ill-deserved criticism. After the tragedy in the Derby and of course remembering Barbaro, Pine Island, George Washington etc. he was taking care of the welfare of his horse, who was clearly off his game that day.

Atthebarn2 you can pack a hoof with any kind of prepared mud but whats common up here is drillers mud. It has some mineral propertys in it and its mainly for drawing out heat in the foot.Thanks for answering my question about turndowns.

TRACY:  Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition, someone who FINALLY gets it.(a few others did as well) Right on all counts. Trying to get through to some of these folks on here is like trying to tell an owner his horse doesn't belong in an allowance race, and maybe doesn't belong on the track. They only hear what they want to hear, don't read thoroughly and don't listen to the people who are the most expert NOT ME, but HOF trainers, world class farriers and so forth.

Get Over It!  Big Brown lost the Belmont. Will we go on for all time over analyzing the race and why he lost?  He lost to a better horse (that day at least). End of Story.  It takes a great horse to win three big races in five weeks. His training was interupted and he had a quarter crack and he has a jerk for a trainer. I have seen horses run with shoes turned sideways and no shoes at all and I doubt it had anything to do with the outcome of the race.  As for the starters presence and all of the other factors, that's Horse Racing. Let's acknowledge his Derby and Preekness wins and move on. There are lots of races coming up to analyze. After the Haskell we will know. Funny I didn't read much about the Winstrol factor.

Two things doomed Big Brown on Belmont day 1) What the hell was the starter doing standing on the track in front of Big Brown ??? 2) Why would a maiden be in the Belmont so he can step on Big Brown and change history by knocking his shoe ?

How do you expect any horse to win a race with a shoe flipping around and bent ????

Don't tell me about conditioning or anything else that is just nuts. The horse got one of the worst breaks in racing history.  He got stepped on by a Maiden in a Triple Crown Race....

OK, no.

Point 1 - Back in the '04 Derby that Smarty Jones won, Zito had a four or five horses entered into the race. The Cliff's Edge among them. I don't remember correctly, but it was either three shoes or two, but The Cliff's Edge lost them. So;

HE RAN TOTALLY WITHOUT THE SHOES

for at least a part of the race. He finished FOURTH.

If the American Farrier's association said it wouldn't have caused him to do so poorly, they're right. They know what they're talking about.

And the starter thing is BS.

If you look at the Belmont race photos from the last couple years you'll see the same person standing there.

It was the training. Compare what Secretariat worked prior to the Belmont in comparison to the measly 5/8th Big Brown went.  This shoe thing is ridiculous.

Hey Bloodstalker do you mind giving out the name of the good horse you owned or at least some of his Graded Stakes wins?

Tracy same comment as Atthebarn2. Also Winstrol is given to keep them eating after they run because some racehorses lose more weight than others.Once you lose that weight it's tough to get it back on if they're not cleaning up at night.

I would love for the trainer,owner, blacksmith, and jockey to just SUCK IT UP! You lost get over it, you did not have the best horse that day and I'm sick and tired of all the excuses and whining. It bothered me a whole lot when he was pulled up in the race since he was obviously fine and created an unnecessary spectacle. I want everyone to move past this if he's going to be one of the all time greats and thats what his owner wants him to be then let him run more than 2 more races and prove it. Stop running scared and making excuses!

Draynay. You must be the most obstinate contrarian known to mankind, or maybe you're Dutrow's party buddy, if you get my drift.

EVERYBODY who's anybody in racing is saying the shoe had ZERO,Zilch nothing, NADA to do with his lack of run. Even RD said it when he was first asked about it, but since he doesn't know much I guess you can choose to ignore the guy who trained your SUPER DUPER colt.The shoe went back on pretty much as it was, within a few strides. What you are talking about happening is HORSE RACING!!!! STARTERS STAND ON THE TRACK ALL of The Time, in fact I'm watching the 5th at Belmont and he was on the track. Heck they even do it at Ruidoso Downs and it takes a brave sucker to stand on the track when two year old Quarter Horses come pinballing out of the gate. Some starters do stand on towers, but the ones that don't apparently think they can talk to the assistant starters and get a better perspective of what's going on. Oh and by the way Rags nearly fell at the start and still won the Belmont. I'm starting to think you aren't even a racing fan, you just like to p.o. people.

Hey Draynay how come you didn't complain about the starter before this? Lots of starters stand there and no other trainer commented on it.If he had been standing in front of BB when the gate opened we would have been bloging about the poor dead starter.He broke outward into the "maiden", that horse broke cleanly.If you make contact with another horse their legs are flying everywhere and yes they can get stepped on.That's a reaction not because he's a non-winner.Get over it. The shoe was a non-issue,and I've seen horses get a worse break than he got.The bent shoe was a non-issue also because the horse was traveling fine until KD put the brakes on. Do us all a favor and come back with a comment that makes sense.

Most likely the "mud" that Wanda was referring to is similar to the poultice that we use to draw heat from the horse's legs. The feet are packed with this cool wet poultice and then wrapped to keep the poultice in. There is usually epsom salts in this poultice to draw out any inflammation.It's like a nice comfy pair of slippers to the horse. As for the real mud keep picking that out. LOL.

I am tired of all of the talk about changing the Triple Crown.  Breed and train the horses to run, don't change the dates to accommodate faulty breeding practices.  Horses are not bred to run 3 races in 5 weeks, they are not trained to do this and therefore it is difficult for them to do so.  Race them for 2 - 3 years and breed from the sound, durable horses.  Avoid the 3 race speedsters that do not have the durability to have a career.  Turn them out and let them build up their strength naturally, don't keep them in and give them drugs to have the best looking sales horses.  The triple crown will come with sound breeding strategies, sound training procedures, and sound racing strategies.  Moving dates does not promote any of this.

Anyone who says the shoe had no effect doesn't know what they are talking about.  How do they know, did they ask the horse?  A bent shoe flipping around can't help and explains why Big Brown was having problems from the start. The horse has dominated every race and won easily he comes out of the gate at Belmont and gets stepped on by a maiden and changes history. he horse wasn't tired he just couldn't run with a shoe half off.  There is no doubt the shoe was the reason Big Brown could not run. I am sure no freak accident will happen in the Haskell. He will take off and be long gone before the others know what hit them.

Spring'smom83 is right, breeding tells every time. Changing the dates or the distances are not the answers, good, sound breeding is.

Wrong Draynay the shoe was NOT even half off. You got to do better than that. And I see your back to predicting how he's going to run in his next start. That's scary cause you were dead wrong last time.

Does anyone remember the safety pin Spectacular Bid stepped on the morning of the '79?

Big Brown will have to come back and perform, but he'll never be a mile and half horse,

I have been going to the track for over 40 years and have seen quit a few things and some that just can not be explained. No one wants to say it but as the saying goes the truth shall set you free. The only thing that changed with this horse was in Dutrows own words this horse will race steroid free in the belmont. ANYONE who watched his ALW win, Fla Dby, KY Dby, Or Preakness saw one fired up into the bit in the post parde monster. The way he looked in the paddock and on the track at belmont he should have been running at your local track for a 50-k dollar claimer. It didnt even look like the same horse. I loved this horse when i saw him in his second race. The more i found out about his dirty connections ( again the truth hurts sometimes) the less i liked him. How many other trainers have you ever heard of according to Jerry Bailey that bet 186-k dollars on St Liam in the Breeders Cup. Performance enhancing drugs are called that for a reason. Big Brown again according to Dutrow was given a shot of the same stuff that is going to nail the other BB Barry Bonds, Marion Jones, and everyother athlete. Clean up the game!

Judy, I'm very familar with a poultice, whether used for inflammation on a leg ar as a hoof treatment for an abscess. Just the way she put it about packing mud in the hoof, sounded a little off.

I know a lot of the older horsemen (like those in their 80's)  and others have some concoctions and I was wondering what it was exactly.

I think we just need to give up on Draynay. Let's just wait until the Haskell if that even happens and if we can listen to his story over and over again until then. He seems to think the shoe was flopping around all the way around the track, from everything that has been said and all of the observations of his own trainer post race, that just simply was not the case. Draynay, have you ever seen a race plate up close? A human can bend them with their bare hands. If it was flopping around, the law of physics say it would have come off. And don't say nothing can happen in the Haskell, as Jason said in his opening remark,there are no foregone conclusions when it involves horses.

the starter standing that far up the track and some six or seven feet from the rail was criminal. the ride was horrible. the shoe didn't help. the lost training was big. Streoids not a factor. he's a great horse. if his feet don't let him down and the jock can find pair and be patient his heart will prove it.

Athebarn2 are you saying I'm old? I'm under 80 okay!

Jason, I must say you really know how to spark discourse and debate. Bob, it's not criminal for a starter to stand on the track. If it's so distracting to the horse then imagine how the assistant starter affects the horse. I do not believe the colt is that mentally fragile, if so he wouldn't have been able to win the Belmont anyway. I don't know if you know the effects of steroid withdrawal but that definitely could have been a factor.I just didn't think BB looked like himself after the race, that picture of him with the owner, looked like a different horse, maybe it was the heat but he didn't get worked up enough to draw up like that. As far as the steroid helping them to get into their feed tub, This particular steroid was supposedly only given once a month,it is designed to build muscle mass in humans and pharmacalogically should have the same cumulative effect on a horse, that is in debate though.It is a synthetic derivative of Testosterone and we all know how agressive that makes males. And as for Draynay, he's like that obnoxious know it all little kid in 3rd grade that nobody liked. In fact that may be him. John Paul, is that you?

Miss Wanda, I would never say that about you. I'm sure you are a lovely young lady. I'm no spring chicken myself but the 80 year old I was thinking of is my 88 year old father and his peers. Also I know the Native Americans in my home state have some very useful home remedies as do a lot of the ranchers and farmers and I'm all for the holistic approach and willing to learn.

Jason, you hit the nail on the head there (oops two thirds of a pun/ p u, get it 3rd graders?) That's the mark of a good writer, keep people talking about something since the only thing worse than talking it to death is not talking about it at all. I'd like to see you tackle the debacle of Asmussen, Dutrow and Levine all in a row. Bad news.

DRAYNAY HAS A POINT OF THE SHOE BEING SOMEWHAT TO HIS FAILURE TO RUN COMPETIVELY.WHAT I LOVE THE MOST IS HORSE RACING FANS ARE QUICK TO CONDONE A ONCE ADORED HERO FOR A LACKLUSTER PERFORMANCE. OKAY HE LOST AND BADLY TOO AND WHEN EVERYONE WAS WATCHING..HAVING SAID THAT, I THINK THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE STILL THINK BIG BROWN IS A GREAT HORSE. THE STEROID STUFF IS SO MISREPRESENTED,WHAT ABOUT HORSES USING LASIX,PLEASE DON'T TELL ME THAT DOESN'T ENHANCE THE ABILITY TO RUN.WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OTHER DRUGS LIKE PAINKILLERS AND ETC..THAT IS A THIN LINE AND ANYONE CAN JUSTIFY THE USE OF THEM FOR A QUOTE "GOOD BENEFIT". AND CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG BUT IF YOU GIVE A HORSE PAIN KILLERS,AREN'T U ENHANCING HIS CHANCES TO PERFORM BETTER,BECAUSE WITHOUT THE PAINKILLER,THE PAIN WOULD BE THEIR TO DETRACT FROM DOING ANY NORMAL OKAY MOVEMENT..SEE WHAT I AM SAYING ANYTHING CAN ENHANCE PERFORMANCE OR DETRACT PERFORMANCE,YOU CAN GIVE A HORSE THAT HAS A LARGE AMOUNT OF VITAMINS(WHICH ARE GOOD) AND IT CAN BE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE AS WELL.SO LETS JUST BE PATIENT AND GIVE BIG BROWN A CHANCE IF HE WAS FLUKE OR REALITY..ISN'T THAT WHAT HAPPEN TO SPECTACULAR BID,HE LOST THE TRIPLE CROWN AND THEN BROKE THE WORLD RECORD AT 1 1/4 MILE LIKE THE NEXT YEAR.....WAIT AND SEE

I haven't been called Miss Wanda since my road trip to Canterbury Downs years ago and met a dad and his two sons from Lousianna.Eddie Martin and his brother and dad,gentlemen all. Seriously I live in an oil rich area and this stuff is used to put down the holes at oil rigs.It's alot cheaper than prepared mud that Farnum,Race Horse Products put out. I'm sure you know the bottom line is the bottom line and it costs alot of money per day to keep a racehorse going even without the vet bills!

Wanda I also saw that you met John Longden and  you were looking at a photo from 1966 as you and Monica reminisced about those days and knew you probably aren’t 22, but then I realized I saw John Longden ride and Shoemaker too, when he was in his twenties. I realized then that was a long time ago, of course I was only about  2 months old then.  Well I guess I can dream that any way. My Mother is 81 and she never misses a chance to tell people, because everyone always tells her she doesn’t look or act like she’s even seventy.

Atthebarn2 here is an old trick that my father taught me, when you breed a mare after a month or two check her throatlatch on her bridle or halter if you've had to let it out a notch then she's in foal, a mare's neck thickens when she's in foal. He was taught this trick by an old Cherokee Indian. I told a person this once and they did not believe me and swore up and down that their mare was not in foal, well 6 months later she dropped a nice little filly.

I'm obnoxious ? No I am tired of people that know nothing about horse racing and steroids flapping their gums and sounding like clowns.  Show me one study...any study that shows Winstrol makes a horse run faster. Trainers have been using these drugs for many years and because haters want to hate they stick it on Big Brown.

Wanda... Big Brown got a bad rap in the Belmont but where were you after all the other races he won??? Make sure you are here after the Haskell... let me know if Big Brown winning by 10 is enough for you.

Oh and one more thing.  Smooth Air, Pyro, and Big Brown have accomplished just as much as Hard Spun, Street Sense, and Curlin at this point in their careers so before you rate this years talent let the year and the races go on until the end. Oh and you Curlin fans don't worry about him taking on Big Brown after he sees the Haskell he will be on the first plane to France to get his butt whipped in the Arc.

Changing the triple crown in any manner will diminish it.  There would be no point to having it anymore.  If it is made easier it loses it's importance.  Who would care?  Real Quiet lost it by a nose!  There will be another horse, we've come close it will happen again.

Draynay!!!  Where have you been?  I've missed you!  It's so nice to read your posting.  The only thing you don't understand is that everyone has an opinion.  Not everyone feels the way you do.  I know you love Big Brown and that's great.  You posted he would win the triple crown and he didn't.  I have never said he was not a good horse I just don't understand why everyone is beating his loss to death and wanting inquiries about everything that happened that day.

He lost.  Let's move on.  Let's see what he does in the Haskell.  If he returns to form he will win.

I don't understand your vehemence on all this.  You are one miserable person and I know you have had some terrible personal problems to deal with and I hope the worst is behind you.  I have many things in my life that cause anxiety as well and I love horse racing, it is a release valve for me as I'm sure it is for you.  I just don't get your nastiness.  I don't get it.  I don't even know you but you love to attack and say spiteful things.  If that makes you happy, have at it.

oh draynay, did you actually read any of my post? You said the same thing I said almost verbatim. I SAID NO ONE COULD TAKE THE DERBY AWAY FROM HIM. Seriously, if you are going to tell me to "get a life", which is funny since you obviously spent some of your's replying to what I had to say, then perhaps you should at least comprehend my point. I said, LET'S MOVE ON. I said nothing about what I did or didn't expect him to. You can argue his Derby was one of the best performances of all time if you want, but it does not equate hastily comparing him to Secretariat or Seattle Slew, who did manage to win the Triple Crown, and against better competition. That's a fact and that was my point.

The fact that a maiden was in the race is pointless. He was entered, he ran, now what? You might have thought it was the wrong decision, but guess what? It wasn't yours to make and if BB had been so great, neither the maiden nor the many other factors would have mattered. It takes a lot to win the Triple Crown, THAT'S WHY THERE'S ONLY BEEN 11.

atthebarn2, you're right, we should just give up on draynay. It seems being nonsensical pleases him or her too much to consider other points of view. So, after this retort, hopefully I won't have to defend myself anymore and I'll have some time to go out and "get a life."

and BIG BROWN--running Curlin on a "different track" will only serve to demonstrate his dominance there too. I'm aware of the suspensions and I said nothing about Asmussen, so test Curlin for drugs. If he's dirty, I'll retract.

Draynay. You need to take a chill pill. Yes you had an incident with your wife's injury (I've been reading this a long time without commenting) but your vehemence is unwarranted. You say that no one knows what they are talking about, but I guarantee you that there are a number of licensed trainers and owners or former on here. I even know that there have been a couple of veterinarians and pharamacists as well as the head of a clinical drug trial program posting about steroids, I know those people. Unless you are one of those professionals you are the one who doesn't know what he is talking about. Some of the top trainers, owners, farriers and veterinarians of the racing industry are all saying the same thing, you know more than all of them?  Your last post is a little scary and borders on hysteria. If you do not rely on horse racing as your livelihood like some of us do then your vehemence is out of place. Unless you are the owner or trainer of Big Brown, then your defense of him is also irrational. Love or hate the horse but 5years from now he'll just be a memory to you. As far as the haters, the trainer is the one who inspired that, no one hates the horse and he could care less if any one does. You obviously have your beliefs but those may not be completely accurate either.

Draynay, No Winstrol may not directly make the horse run faster but it has properties that aid the factors that enable a horse to run faster. If his trainer hadn't acted the way he did and hadn't just gotten another drug suspension, this conversation wouldn't have taken place. Jason, you apologized that someone was posting under Draynay's name earlier but throughout the discussions, no one has interacted with the rest of the posters like he has,mean, spiteful and bitter. I'm starting to wonder what his direct investment in the horse is.

Draynay I had BB in my roadtotheroses stable after he broke his maiden and Jason can verify comments I made before and after the Derby and Preakness.

Atthebarn2 I met Johnny Longden when he was in his 80's so no I did not know him when he rode. The picture is one he signed and gave to my husband and myself when we were invited to dinner with him and his wife.

I'm sure the shoe bothered him a little---but the real problem is overall lack of training through the whole Triple Crown.  He barely trained between the Derby and the Preakness and then missed days and was trained (if you can even call it that!!) VERY lightly before the Belmont.  I'm sure that has to do with his problem feet and the quarter crack, but his lack of training would be akin to an Olympic athlete deciding to "take it easy" for a couple of weeks before the gold medal event and then believing they could still perform at peak level and win.  

Wanda, I remember you saying that, must have been great for you. I still get a little star struck with certain people. From your comments I'm guessing I'm a lot older than you,I saw Jerry Bailey when he first started riding at Sunland Park, Mikey Smith at Santa Fe, Pat Day in Colorado I think it was and anyway now I really feel old, maybe I'll have a bite and a rest before I go back to work, have a horse I've been working on fixing for a few days, maybe I'll try the poultice. Julie that is interesting. unfortunately we have to pay huge vet bills,can't risk not knowing when the foals are coming and last one we had to give the mare a hormone to prevent losing the foal.

Tigger, I liked your post and agree completely

I think Big Brown is a good horse but hasn't proven himself one of the greats just yet. We can speculate all day long as to why he didn't win but we'll never have the answer.  Seems to me like it was a combination of all the things mentioned but most of all that he simply wasn't in condition for this race - no fault of his! I'd like to share something I just read - the training schedule of a Belmont Stakes winner during the three weeks between the Preakness and the  Belmont:  5-23 Preakness, 5-24 shipped to Belmont, 25th-26th walked, 27th-28th-29th galloped, 5-30 worked 5f, 5-31 galloped, 6-1 worked 1 mile/galloped out 1 1/8, 2nd-3rd galloped, 6-4 worked 3f, 6-5 went 1 1/4 miles in 2:07, 6-6 walked, 7th-8th galloped, 6-9 went 1 1/2 miles in 2:38 2/5, 10th-11th walked, 6-12 worked 6f, 6-13 BELMONT STAKES.  AND that was his 6th race in 9 weeks! Quite a different training schedule than what Big Brown just had. (Not that I think that was the best schedule either but it illustrates my point and in reading about the training of some of the triple crown winners they were also similar to what I just wrote). By the way, the horse was Native Dancer.  I sure hope they never change the triple crown races or they might as well just do away with it altogether.  The glory of those that won would surely be diminished if we just go ahead and make it easier to win.  It's suppose to be hard - that's why there have only been 11 winners in over 100 years!  Draynay I understand your enthusiasm for Big Brown - I am the same with Native Dancer - and I hope he does well for the rest of the season.  Enjoy watching him while he's with us!

Everybody has their point of view including Draynay. I think in some weird twisted way we miss him when he's not around. It keeps this blog interesting and I love it! It keeps me coming back and I've talked to many many interesting people and yes I've gotten mad on occasion (thanks for putting up with me Jason) but all in all it's great to be here.

I have ridden horses for lots of years, more than I actually want to admit to. I had a mare that was a retired race horse and she was always throwing or partially throwing her right rear shoe. When she did this she always threw her head up and to the rear (like Big Brown) grunted and ran like she was runnning on ice, slipping etc.  She attempted to run, as this is what she was born and trained to do, but her gait would be "off" and I pulled her up just like KD did with BB.

Any horse I have ridden that has a loose shoe will try to keep going and take care of business but can't as their balance is off and at times even dirt causes them pain under the foot and the shoe.  Poor BB!! (REALLY) a loose shoe after a horse running into him, KD up and at the reins driving him like a Porsche in the Gran Am ,nearly running into the rear end of another horse, pulled back and urged forward around another horse, and a hot and humid day!! I'm surprised BB just didn't stop instead of waiting to be slowed up. His heart and stamina were there but the odds were against him.

Oh, by the way Mr. Kent D, I apologize, you did do the right thing. BB is healthy and will race another day. No Triple Crown this year. But not the heart break of another Barbaro or his new girlfriend, Eight Bells.

Atthebarn2

I really enjoyed your posts!  Thanks so much for taking on Draynay.  He is so nasty and acts like he is an expert on everything.

He wants everyone to think like he does...Big Brown is the greatest horse in 30 years.  Well I just can't buy that, not after the horses I've seen.

I'm glad you saw that conversation Wanda and I were having about Johnny Longden and George Royal.  When I met Johnny I was amazed at his hands.  They were so big and muscular and you know he was a little man!  Had to have been all those years of riding and controlling those horses.  I also was involved in some associations for retired horses and helped with a benefit that was a dinner to honor Charlie Whittingham.  I met Shoemaker there and Charlie and Arthur Hancock whom I had met previously at Stone Farm.  Charlie was a great guy and a marvelous trainer.  He let me come to his barn at Santa Anita to see Sunday Silence.  Oh, what a thrill.  I loved that horse.  I miss Charlie training.  I went to his funeral and what a loss that was.  I have been fortunate enought to visit Secretariat, Affirmed, Alyadar, Spectacular Bid, Najinksy, Mr. Prospector, Halo, John Henry, Forego and many others that are all gone now.  The one thing I would mention is that The Bid was on the far side of Claiborne as he didn't dulicate himself.  The previous year he had been next to Secretariat.  Bid was near the road on the side of the farm.  I saw him there and stopped my car.

I walked over to the low stone wall and he stood there looking at me and nickering, like he wanted to talk to me.  He was so beautiful

and I took lots of pictures.  I think he wanted me to come up to him but I didn't dare trespass.  Now I wish I had.  I wish I had petted him, like I did Secretariat and Seattle Slew and Affirmed.

I know you work hard for your living but I envy the closeness to the horses and the action.  Thanks so much for your insights.  I have really enjoyed it.