Stopping the Clock, Week of Jan. 18

In part two of Stopping the Clock, here are a few works turned in this week by some of the early Kentucky Derby contenders.

There are no prominent 3-year-old races this weekend, but next week we'll return with analysis of the Hutcheson (gr. II) and Holy Bull (gr. III) from Gulfstream. Those two should help us start to form a clearer Derby picture.

Enjoy the Sunshine Millions this weekend. It's always one of the best betting days of the year; prices everywhere. Check out That Handicapping Show for a breakdown of the Millions Classic.

 

Big Drama - Jan. 18 at Calder, five furlongs in 1:00.20, handily. The Delta Jackpot winner will go in the Jan. 31 Holy Bull Stakes at Gulfstream. Trained by David Fawkes, he has won five of six starts and already has enough graded earnings to qualify for the Derby. A big run in the Holy Bull will put the colt near the top of every watch list.

Break Water Edison - Jan. 21 at Gulfstream, five furlongs in 1:00.80, breezing. A solid work considering he went wide on the turn. Got the final quarter mile in :23 3/5, according to trainer John Kimmel. The Nashua Stakes winner is gearing for a big run in the Jan. 30 Hutcheson after a three-month layoff.

Checklist - Jan. 18 at Palm Meadows, five furlongs in 1:02.80, breezing. The Gone West colt was very impressive in his Jan. 3 debut at Gulfstream in which he won by four lengths while being ridden out by John Velazquez. Looks like the best 3-year-old in Todd Pletcher's barn, so far.

Giant Oak - Jan. 16 at Fair Grounds, five furlongs in 1:00.40, breezing. Second in the Kentucky Jockey Club in November at Churchill, he continues to work towards his season debut. His second start on dirt should be even better. Trained by Chris Block.

Hello Broadway - Jan. 21 at Gulfstream, six furlongs in 1:15.60, handily. Was geared down towards the end of his work, which Barclay Tagg was very pleased with. The half-brother to Nobiz Like Shobiz will also make his first start of the year in the seven-furlong Hutcheson after finishing runner-up to Break Water Edison in the Nashua on Nov. 2.

I Want Revenge - Jan. 19 at Hollywood, six furlongs in 1:10.80, handily. A smooth, bullet work for the son of Stephen Got Even. Second to Pioneerof the Nile in CashCall Futurity, he continues to work towards his 3-year-old debut.

Indygo Mountain - Jan. 22 at Fair Grounds, four furlongs in :49.80, breezing. The Bret Calhoun trainee was not in top form for the Lecomte, but don't forget about this colt. Look for a bigger run from him in the Risen Star.

Notonthesamepage - Jan. 18 at Gulfstream, four furlongs in :47.80, handily. The best of 47 works that day for the Wesley Ward trainee. After earning an incredible 115 Beyer in the Spectacular Bid on Jan. 3, Ward said his star will go in the Fountain of Youth on Feb. 28.

Old Fashioned - Jan. 18 at Fair Grounds, five furlongs in 1:01.20, breezing. The Remsen winner is on target for the Feb. 16 Southwest at Oaklawn. Will continue training at Fair Grounds leading up to the one-mile race.

Pioneerof the Nile - Jan. 18 at Santa Anita, five furlongs in 1:00.20, handily. The CashCall winner remains on target for the Feb. 7 Robert B. Lewis Stakes. Word from California is that this colt is training like a monster for Baffert.

Stardom Bound - Jan. 19 at Santa Anita, five furlongs in 1:00.80, handily. Everyone is anxiously awaiting the filly's 3-year-old debut.

West Side Bernie - Jan. 18 at Palm Meadows, five furlongs in 1:00.05, handily. The best move of 41 that day. The Delta Jackpot runner-up already has more than $200k in graded earnings and his 3-year-old debut will be eagerly anticipated.

 

64 Comments

Leave a Comment:

Tim

Is Charitable Man back in training yet?

22 Jan 2009 11:26 AM
Jason Shandler

Tim: No. Charitable Man has not worked since Sept. 30. Im not sure what his status is. If anyone knows, please shed some light

22 Jan 2009 11:41 AM
BittelRoad

Charitable Man has returned to the barn and has been galloping for several days now.

22 Jan 2009 11:50 AM
Brian A.

Can't wait to see if Stardom Bound will come back as good, if not better than ever!

22 Jan 2009 12:13 PM
DONNA

 Stardom Bound may be the key to the whole Derby this year. Can't wait for her first race, it might tell us a lot.

22 Jan 2009 12:37 PM
phoenixky1

Checklist is a good one but I think everyone is forgetting about his stablemate Take the Points, he was 4th in his debut at Churchill Downs after breaking slow he circled the field and ended up beat for the whole thing by 3 1/2 lengths, he ran 2nd at Saratoga in his next start beaten by a nose and broke his maiden at Belmont beating Nowhere to Hide.  He is nominated to the Hutchenson and I think he could be the sleeper.  I bred his so I am a little partial.

22 Jan 2009 1:01 PM
Jason Shandler

Thanks for the insight Phoenixky. Best of luck with Take the Points. Another Pletcher horse for us to watch.

22 Jan 2009 1:10 PM
draynay

This is all well and good but the question still remains.... who can beat Vineyard Haven.

22 Jan 2009 5:43 PM
MIKE RELVA

HELLO JASON:

WHAT DO YOU THINK IN REGARDS TO MAJORMOTION PICTURE?

22 Jan 2009 6:49 PM
Abbie Knowles

Very interesting article and obviously as a Seattle Slew fan will be following (and not giving up on in) Indygo Mountain's case, I Want Revenge and of course the beautiful Stardom Bound who was incredibly impressive last year!  Would love her to win or deadheat with Midshipman in the Kentucky Derby (!!!!) and for Laragh to win the Kentucky Oaks!

Incidentally for those who have not heard, Godolphin's lovely colt Desert Party won his first race at Nad Al Sheba in grand style last night!

God Bless

 

22 Jan 2009 7:45 PM
Jason Shandler

Mike: I cant give an opinion on Majormotionpicture until I see him run again. He hasnt raced since August - his only start. Works have been average. Not crazy about his pedigree. I'll wait to see him race again to make up my mind, but I usually like my Derby horse to run more than once as a 2YO.

22 Jan 2009 7:54 PM
Householder

All systems "go" on Pioneer of the Nile!"  I noticed he drifted out a bit in the stretch last time out.  If Baffert can teach him to run straight we got a winner.

22 Jan 2009 8:16 PM
LDP

Personally i like Old Fashion, he's number 1 on my list along with Square Eddie, in second. The only thing with SE is will he like dirt, and if so, enough to win the Derby. I know some throw out Old Fashion's Remsen because of his easy trip, but honestly, if he was going that slow that they still couldn't keep up, that's pretty good. I also know that the horses in the race weren't the best, but they weren't claimers, and some have come back to run in stakes. If OF wins the Southwest against a good field, which will include Square Eddie, then i think we got our answer of who could beat VH.

22 Jan 2009 8:43 PM
Householder

Pioneer of the Nile vs. I Want Revenge rematch!  I Want Revenge had to thread the needle along the rail (looked good for a young horse to split horses).  Throw in Square Eddie and perhaps Stardom Bound.  Here is the best in the west...come get us.  No one here seems too concerned about Vineyard Haven.

22 Jan 2009 9:19 PM
Draynay

I Agree.... no one seems too concerned about the two time G1 winner.  Seems like too many are impressed with horses running against nothing.  Break Water Edison could be the real deal the winner of the Hutch this year will be a Derby contender for sure in the year of little speed.  I still say VH ran better wayyyyyy back in the first week of October than any 3 year old I have seen so far.

22 Jan 2009 10:50 PM
Jason Shandler

Draynay: Why don't you go to Dubai and give us a live report...

22 Jan 2009 11:38 PM
RJPPDP

I am a big fan of break water for edison fan. I feel he is going to bring back the old school with three preps and solid two year foundation. I also think beethoven is a sleeper.

23 Jan 2009 12:03 AM
Nick G.

Everyone seems to dismiss Theregoesjojo.  Not sure why, he came back from a long, long layoff and beat two real contenders that weren't really backup he just went by them.  If you look back to his maiden win it was in similar style at Churchill.  Powerful stretch kick.  I think you can toss the Bashford Manor as he got completely shut off in the stretch, and something may have went amiss with the subsequent layoff.  I guess the distance is a question, but for most it's a question at this point.  Very similar breeding to Big Brown being by a Danzig sire with the stamina on the dam's side.  Of the three McPeek horses I think this one is the most talented although the other 2 may have answered the distance questions already.  I was a big fan of Danger To Society, but was unable to make the trip to Vegas to get 100-1 on him, but I've got 100-1 on Theregoesjojo.

23 Jan 2009 3:12 AM
Draynay

Great idea Jason.  I called Dubai and they are sending their very best magic carpet to pick me up. I will get a chance to meet with Vineyard Haven and the owners upon my arrival. Its a long ride but the carpet they are sending is extra plush.  I will give you all the 411 tonight when I get back.

23 Jan 2009 7:35 AM
draynot

LOL Jason, nay nay to Dubai.

I liked his comment about too many people impressed by horses running against nothing. reminds me of last years Derby winner.

23 Jan 2009 9:40 AM
Wanda

Hey Jason we can all pitch in for the plane fare, ONE WAY!

23 Jan 2009 10:22 AM
slyder

Jason,

Thanks for the updates on so many prospects. It's valuable information for sure. The excitement and anticipation is building to see what leads up to the first Sat. in May.

Gotta laugh at draynay's comment that VH ran wayyyyy better than any 3 yr old he's seen this year. Isn't the year only 23 days old? Not much to compare to since most haven't run at all yet this year. Funny stuff draynay.

Guess some people have to talk for talking's sake. Or should I say some people just can't keep it shut so they say alot of nothing?

23 Jan 2009 11:03 AM
BIGHORSEFAN

Wanda, He'd probably love that. The life of luxury unknown to negatories like him. A country that has luxuries most in this country can't even dream of.

Indygo Mountain, Bret will have him ready to go. Silver City is another of his that could impress. Heard he had a couple of good ones, he definitely does.

Stardom Bound who knows how she'll run on dirt. If Frankel keeps her, I hope for good things, but if Dutrow stays as the trainere of record, will find it hard to cheer for the connections.

23 Jan 2009 3:35 PM
Wanda

Hey Big,how's the home boys? I see IEAH bought another one(Patena).

I will keep a closer eye on Indygo Mountain just because...

23 Jan 2009 5:09 PM
Draynay

As promised Jason, I flew into Dubai to speak to Sheikh Mohammed.  He was not available but I was granted 10 minutes with the great Vineyard Haven and was able to ask many questions.  The conversation below comes right from tape.

Draynay: Vineyard you have two G1 wins back in the states how does that make you feel?

Vineyard: No one here cares and many believe it took place when I was 2 and has nothing to with what I will do at 3.

Draynay: Have you seen any challengers?

Vineyard: Not really, have you?

Draynay: Some say you can't win training in Dubai.

Vineyard: Really, why is that? Have they been to Dubai? Look, I know many think its the long flight that causes horses not to perform well coming from Dubai.  Let me tell you that is nonsense.  If Curlin can fly back and pick on weak older horses I can fly back and pick on weak 3 year olds.

Draynay: So you think the Derby is an easy win for you.

Vineyard: Do I look like Dutrow to you?

Draynay: No, but you do seem a little sure of yourself.

Vineyard: Look if someone could post a 1:10 and finishes in :47 then I would worry; until then call Vegas and take the 15-1 on me winning.

Draynay: Midshipman, Square Eddie, Old Fashioned - none of them scare you.

Vineyard: Did you watch my last race?  No none of these so called horses to watch worry me at all.

Draynay: Many will say its too early to pick a derby horse. What do you say to those who doubt you.

Vineyard: I called Big Brown and he said they doubted him too.  I think that is pretty good company don't you?

Draynay: Big Brown won the Derby undefeated and you have lost already...

Vineyard: How many G1 wins did Big Brown have at 2? Look I won both of my G1 races with room to spare and I was smaller and 200 lbs. lighter.  Look at me now.  I am a full grown 3 year old back to back G1 wins under my belt how many can say that?

Draynay: Not many... Vineyard thanks for taking the time to talk to me. Do you have anything you want to add ?

Vineyard: Two things, 2009 is going to be my year and you really are quite attractive.

Draynay: Thanks Vineyard... got to go.

D

23 Jan 2009 8:51 PM
MIKE RELVA

HEY WANDA:

IF YOU AND OTHERS' ARE INTERESTED IN SENDING DRAY TO DUBAI,I THINK THERE IS A SEAT WAITING WITH YOUR NAME ON IT,LOL!!

23 Jan 2009 9:18 PM
Ranagulzion

Jason thanks for the exercise gallop report.  It shows that several of the prominent Derby aspirants are on track.  The Holy Bull is shaping up to be very interesting.  Let's see if the competition can test Big Drama.  This colt, looked like a sprinter earlier on but  being a grandson of Spend A Buck's sire Buckaroo, he has "under the radar" Derby pedigree.  His dam line has stamina through Ribot plus multiple doses of Tom Fool.  He could turn out to be "The Big One" this year as he has already shown a propensity to win repeatedly (five in a row) and carry his natural speed around two turns.  Bethoven and Westside Bernie should follow him home.  

23 Jan 2009 9:19 PM
Householder

Oh I forgot my early "dark horse" Chocolate Candy.  Add this one to the "Best of the West."  You Tube the Cash Call Juvinile and tell me his position at the 1/2, and at the finish line, and then tell me this one is not screaming for another 1/8 mile.  Papa was undefeated on dirt and turf (higest beyer figure for the year at 123), and mama's line has tripple crown winners.

23 Jan 2009 10:02 PM
Jason Shandler

Big Drama is now out of the Holy Bull with a minor injury, according to a published report.

24 Jan 2009 3:31 PM
Wanda

Sure Mike can I go during the World Cup?

24 Jan 2009 4:29 PM
Householder

Stardom Bound is being pointed towards the Santa Anita Derby. I'm suddenly having flash backs of Winning Color's 8-9 length Kentucky Derby prep romp.

24 Jan 2009 8:56 PM
Ranagulzion

Draynay you're a riot with that imaginative interview with Vineyard Haven.  Gave me a good laugh.  If indeed injury sidelines Big Drama I will certainly join you in rooting for Vineyard Haven even though I think that his pedigree is suspect with respect to the Kentucky Derby.

24 Jan 2009 9:10 PM
Householder

Winning Colors Santa Anita Derby 45 and change...109 and change... ending in a new track record...wow, speed over a distance of ground is always dangerous (as also witnessed by Lady's Secrets frequent romp over boys).  Go Stardom Bound Go!

24 Jan 2009 10:03 PM
Bradgm

Wanda, while he's at it he can put you up in the Burj al Arab, one of the most expensive hotels in the world.

Then you can ski at their indoor fabricated ski slope.

Mike Relva, time to pony up there Bud. Wanda certainly deserves the luxury more than a guy who has imaginary conversations with a horse and THINKS he flies halfway round the world on a magic carpet. I want what he's drinking.

24 Jan 2009 10:48 PM
Abbie Knowles

Funny conversation with Vineyard but personally feel Midshipman is better anyway and do not think it is impossible that either could win from Dubai! Desert Party was impressive last week as well! Stardom Bound a great favourite but also am not at all fond of Dutrow and co so hope she remains with Frankel too!  i agree Beethoven is not to be underestimated and await his 3 y o debut with interest!

God Bless

 

25 Jan 2009 1:31 AM
Tammy

I like Giant Oak.

25 Jan 2009 2:01 PM
MIKE RELVA

TO:BRADGM

SAY WHAT YOU WILL,BUT WANDA GIVES THE ILLUSION THAT SHE " WROTE THE BOOK" ON EVERYTHING,THAT'S A HUGE TURN OFF! I OWN,AS A HOBBY, A FEW RACEHORSES THAT RACE IN FLA. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF SHE OWNS ANY.

25 Jan 2009 4:46 PM
draynay

Two things.  Until Midshipman wins ANYTHING on dirt lets not get carried away.  He may not like it at all.  Second, did anyone notice that the favored Delightful Kiss was never in the race coming out of the impossible 12 hole at Gulfstream.  I wonder just how special a horse would have to be to win from that post position and if we will EVER see it again.

25 Jan 2009 5:29 PM
Wanda

Just got home from work and caught up on the comments.

Mike: I own one racehorse at present in partnership with the inlaws and one broodmare I bought last fall in partnership with my mom. What else do you want to know Mike? And your right I AM kind of a know it all at least my husband tells me once and a while.

25 Jan 2009 9:19 PM
Bradgm

Not to answer for her Mike, but in previous posts she spoke of working at the track, many tracks here in the States.

Truthfully why should that bother you anyway?

I seem to recall a few guys who could probably tell you a LOT about some of the horses on the clockers list, being questioned and put down for their inside knowledge to the point that they finally gave up the ghost.

25 Jan 2009 10:20 PM
MIKE RELVA

To Draynay:

You made a good point and I know where this is going. I haven't agreed with everything you ever said,but I respect your undying loyality to BB,cause I was for him all the way after War Pass was injured. At least unlike many so-called fans you were on him from the beginning,that says something!

25 Jan 2009 10:22 PM
BIGHORSEFAN

MIKE RELVA, Leave Wanda alone she's good people.

Don't like it, don't read it, plus some would say the same about you!

Just because you own a couple doesn't make you an expert, especially when other people on here have questioned like Larry Jones, other trainers who have come on here, like Joel Marr and some who have chosen to remain anonymous. Also as Jason so often reminds us,these are opinions.

Householder,

Winnng Colors AND Lady's Secret?

I love Stardom Bound, but she's missing the key ingredients of the other two.

And yes Mike Relva, I can speak authoritatively on that because I know the three missing ingredients, personally.

25 Jan 2009 10:29 PM
AnneM

Big Brown won from that 12th post position and went on to win the Derby and the Preakness last year but never seemed to get the respect he deserved. It is so sad he did not compete in the Breeders Cup -

He is something very special.

25 Jan 2009 11:50 PM
Householder

It is unfortunate that they took Midshipman away from a 3 time Kentucky Derby winning trainer...only to be sent to another county.  I remember D. Wayne Lukas' trained (3 Million Dollar) Houston getting blown away in derby preps by Sunday Silence a horse that could not sell for $27,000 at a yearly sale.  I also remember a $7,500 purchase, Casual Lies, finishing second (five or six places ahead of Arazi) in the Kentucky Derby.  The Sheik can spend 12 million dollars just as the Yankees can carry the most expensive roster in baseball.  In the end it won't matter.

26 Jan 2009 1:08 AM
draynot

Sunshine Millions Classic:

I was not surprised to see the runner-up in last years Preakness finish off the board and way down the list. Last years American 3 yr olds who ran in the Classics continue to give evidence how weak they were and this after having almost a year to mature and improve.

Delighful Kiss had a bad start and that compromised his entire race. He may very well have won from the 12 hole had he broke clean. Let's not forget that winning from the 12 hole at GP wasn't so tough when the field consisted of nothing. It will happen again when the field sets up as weak as last years Fla. Derby and the only runner of any ability comes out of 12. Ya don't have to be so special to beat nobody.

26 Jan 2009 7:59 AM
slyder

draynay how special is this? The answer to your question is:

GP 1/18/09 R5,  1 mile, 3 yo Mdn Claiming 30K (claiming LMAO).

And the winner is Texas Hedge form the 12 hole!!!!!!!!!!! In case you missed it the first time from the 12 hole!!!!!!!!!!  And that's a two-turn 1 mile race that starts closer to the first turn and makes it more difficult to overcome the outside post. We didn't have to wait long to see that again!! A 30K claimer from the 12 hole in a route at GP. Guess you don't have to be so special to do that after all.

26 Jan 2009 8:56 AM
Wanda

Thanks Big and Brad for being there for me. It's okay I'm a big girl and I've always said that I stand behind everything that I say. No worries!

Mike: where do you run? Calder,Tampa Bay or Gulfstream? Me I like Calder the best, the food was way better than Tampa and I liked the way they have the tables set up outside by the paddock. It's fan friendly if you know what I mean. I'd trade places with you in a New York minute Mike but I'm Canadian and this is where I live and work.You have your opinion and I have mine, it's all good.

26 Jan 2009 10:24 AM
Draynay

Slyder because I have had a very long week I am going to try and keep this clean.  Why on earth would you comment on a horse winning from the 12 post in a mile long race ??? Did you not understand that Big Brown did it at a 1 1/8 in a G1 race? Let me know when ANY horse wins from the 12 post at a 1 1/8 in a graded stakes race at Gulfstream.  A claimer beating other claimer in a mile race doesn't do much for me.

26 Jan 2009 10:59 AM
Draynay

I was going to let your comments go Draynot but they are so darn "funny" that I felt it necessary.  You say that "American" 3 year olds were weak but let me remind you that RAVENS PASS won only 2 races ALL YEAR and cannot even be compared to Big Brown.  So if a little 3 year old from England who has trouble winning races comes over and whips Curlin imagine what Big Brown the G1 winner of the Florida, Kentucky, Preakness, and Haskell would have done to him.

26 Jan 2009 11:22 AM
texas hedge

I am the greatest!!!  To win from the 12 hole in a route race at GP you can put my name along side that of Big Brown. I'm still in awe just thinking of it, I went from a 30k maiden claimer to world beater just because I won the race from the 12 hole. And they said it wouldn't ever be done again. Shows how naive some are.

26 Jan 2009 12:51 PM
dass

its a one turn mile at gulfstream

26 Jan 2009 3:32 PM
MIKE RELVA

TO:

BIGHORSEFAN & BRADGM

I think Wanda is more than capable of speaking up,she certainly hasn't been shy regarding saying what she thinks. If you don't like my opinions,too bad! I have a news flash for you,you don't any right trying to tell me what I can say or not,period!

26 Jan 2009 4:05 PM
MIKE RELVA

TO: DRAYNOT

YOU ARE KIDDING,RIGHT? AT LEAST I HOPE YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT BS!

26 Jan 2009 6:35 PM
Householder

On a positive note it looks like Bob Black Jack (Grade 1 Malibu win) and Georgie Boy (Sunshine Millions Sprint) bounced back fine after their 3 year old Derby campains.  Now that they are back to doing what they do best (Sprinting) they should have a great 4 year old year.

26 Jan 2009 9:16 PM
Householder

BIGHORSEFAN...Your right Stardom Bound is not going to "steal" any race soon.  My analogy was more along the lines of 2 fillies that could beat the boys (I believe Stardom Bound has this potential)...and 3 horses that LOVE/D Santa Anita.  The 1986 Distaff is one of my favorites.  Lady Secret on the front end at Santa Anita for 1 1/4 miles. And the Winning Colors Santa Anita Derby speaks for itself (I think it included good horses like Lively One).  Stardom Bound in the Santa Anita Derby is at least interesting.

26 Jan 2009 9:31 PM
LDP

Dray, the horse that RP lost to in most of those races he didn't win was arguabley the best miler in Europe Henrythenavigator, who by the way was second in the BCC. That a bit bigger than what BB ever came close to facing, and so was everything else that RP beat in the Classic.

26 Jan 2009 10:25 PM
Bradgm

Mike,

We know she can. Just like we knew the other guys that so many hammered on here, could.

Like I said before, guys that would make your few little horses you own look like a joke, but people slammed them every chance they got.

But you know I don't think we're wrong when we stand up for someone against an ad hominem attack. It's supposed to be about your opinion of the HORSES not your opinion of other posters when so many that go after other posters on here,  warrant an attack on their character and don't have that happen. People who try to turn it into a vendetta or snide remarks against a poster and don't keep it about the horses or the connections that we're discussing.

OBVIOUSLY to anyone who actually reads the posts, there are some connections between people who may never have even met. Then there are connections between those who have. I really don't think you want to get in a slamfest on here with us, furthermore I don't think Jason would allow it, lucky for you.

26 Jan 2009 10:45 PM
Hawkeye

I find all of your comments interesting, but essentially I would like to see our future champions bred in the USA, and trained in the USA by the trainers who put their hearts into them at the beginning.  Come the end of the year we will loose many to the breeding shed.  We have so many stallions now that even those experts on genetics have to realize that all of the scientific knowledge can't make a champion. Millions of factors have to come together just right.  I prefer to sit back and watch as there are always sleepers who don't come to their top form until later in the year.  Sorry but the triple crown and breeder's cup races are only a scant few of the whole.  Keep your eye on those who love to train and give everything at race time.

27 Jan 2009 7:36 AM
slyder

draynay,

You said it would may be done again winning from the 12 hole. Plain and simple that's what you said. Funny how you try and qualify that once again after it's been done. Last years Fla. Derby was hardly of G1 quality. it may have been called that but it was only weak 3 yr olds that lined up agains your big brown. I am a believer that they should not grade races until after the year and then base it on who showed up and how good they were at the time. In this case it would have fallen way short of G1 status.

A claimer beating another claimer doesn't do anything for you. Well big brown beating nobody in last years fla. derby, a glorified allowance caliber race just like the preakness which he won and the belmont where he got whipped were don't do much for me either.

27 Jan 2009 9:04 AM
gw_bushwacker

Curlin HOY!!!!!!!!!!!

Much deserved. big brown a distant third. Raven's Pass should have finished above him. Good thing big brown skipped the Classic or he would have finished no better than 5th or 6th and gotten no votes.

27 Jan 2009 11:32 AM
the_wiz

Hey Slyder,

I think you meant to say that draynay said it may NEVER be done (winning from the 12 hole at GP)again. He's said that over and over since last year. Funny thing that he changes his tune after a mere Maiden accomplishes the feat. He forgets that in the Belmont a mere Maiden whipped his Big Brown just like the rest of those allownce caliber horses did.

27 Jan 2009 11:38 AM
slyder

draynay,

You have stated repeatedly that you believed winning from the 12 hole at GP may never be done again. Until now you did not say anything about it having to be in a graded race. I guess since it's been done from the 12 hole you feel you have to re-qualify your claim so the situation doesn't fit.

In reality what Texas h

Hedge did from the 12 hole was better than what your browneye did in his race. Texas Hedge was going from the far outside against horses of the same caliber as him. brown was not. In fact big brown was facing a field of little talent and most didn't belong at that level in the first place. It's exponentionally much easier to pull off a win from the 12 hole facing inferior competition to yours. Texas Hedge pulled it off against opponents of the same caliber he was. What we really have here is just another example of how big brown accomplished what he did in a few races against competition not worthy of running at the level they were.

28 Jan 2009 10:58 AM
Wanda

Hey Mike fairs fair. I answered your question why haven't you answered mine? Where are your horses running at?

28 Jan 2009 1:57 PM
klimpie

I'd like to know when Dunkirk is going to run. He is under my radar.

28 Jan 2009 9:28 PM

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