Holy shoot,

    He does look extremely impressive. I'll be looking forward to his stake debute in the Gotham. Since Square Eddie got knocked off my list, i've been trying to see if there were any other horses who could be as good as Old Fashion, who in my oppinion is the best, and hopefully will prove me right next Sat. Ok back to Mr. Fantasy. I'm trying not to rush into things, but he looks fantastic, and looks like he may take my top spot. Thanks Jason, for the videos, i'd been looking for them on just about every racing site i know, so i glad you posted them.

Good Lord! What a spectacular looking horse. He's absolutely beautiful. Wow. Love a horse that can win like that, they're my favorite -- love a good charging from the back of the pack rally, but cruising along in front and then pulling off to win by that much is just plain awesome. Can't wait to see if he can step it up.

The entire 2/1/09 race is here (without the interview) if you want to see it start to finish.

www.youtube.com/watch

or type Mr. Fantasy/aquaduct into the Utube search engine

Really impressive mover as he gallops out after the first race.

 He looked impressive in his 2 races so far,I like his breeding out of a Spectacular Bid mare who is the dam of the useful Tin Cup Chalice so lets see what he can do in the Gotham.

"He was fairly well-prepped but wasn't real big or tall." ..Jeez Terry give me a little credit, his coat shined like a pair of shoes buffed by Eddie Logan, his walk and manners were so good because I spent two hours a day with him for three months, and he was the youngest horse in the catalog how could he have been big compared to the others. Plus he was always steroid free, just hay and oats. Love the name, Tin Cup Chalice and Mr Fantasy both songs!

I have been watching this colt since the first day he ran.(as a woman who couldn't notice that name.) I didn't know all this info so thanks for that. I loved E Dubai when he was running and I am  very happy he is starting to be a noticed sire.  I think he could be NY's second classic winner.

Goooo Mr. Fantasy!!!

Like I said before a mystery horse could pop up at anytime to put aside the other Derby contenders. Let's watch and see how he does. This game is so exciting which is why I love horseracing so much!

I seen both his on TV live and he is impressive I can't wait for the gotham and seeing hi  going up against Haynesfield. Lets find out who NY belongs to this year.He is on my Top 20 list.

Agree with all of the above, but not sure he is better than Haynesfield. A fully tested NY Bred with 3 stakes under his belt

Speed over a distance of ground is always hard to beat.  He is fun to watch.  

I told you Mr. Fantasy was the real deal and his stablemate Charitable Man is back in training and close to a race according ti Charitableman.com.

Thanks Katinthahat the videos on UTube were terrific!  Mr Fantasy is gorgeous and a beautiful mover.  He has joined my massive list of horses to follow!

Thanks for very interesting article and fascinating interview Jason.  Most enjoyable and informative.

Kiaran McLoughlin is a favourite trainer and Mr Fantasy is in good hands.  Sheikh Hamden Al Maktoum would only have his horses with someone who truly loves them!  I like it when the Maktoum family buy horses as I KNOW they are in good hands then. Look up the Godolphin website and see Sheikh Mohammed kissing one of his horses on the "movie" they have at the top of the website! Also if there are more generous owners around re giving to Charity then I do not know of them. I know many owners are generous in that sphere if they can be but few can surpass the Maktoum Family.  Nor can they for being sporting or for being good at taking criticism!!!  Sheikh Mohammed is always very gracious when asked on TV about the latest bout of criticism of Godolphin!  Certainly without the Maktoum family's support as of the early 1980's British racing would be in an even bigger mess than it is!  They even bailed out C4 racing when it looked like we would lose it and Sheikh Mohammed originally owned The Racing Post!  So yes i am a big fan of theirs and their horses always look wonderful!!!  

Sorry this is a complete digression but i get fed up of all the criticism the Maktoum family receive!!!!  It may not be as bad in the US as over here, but in the UK the racing press and fans tend to bite one of the main hands that feed them!!!!

All the above is why I love seeing any Godolphin/Darley/Shadwell horse win and would love one of the Godolphin horses to win the Kentucky Derby!  

But i have fallen for Mr Fantasy too and wish him and his connections every success!!!!

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

E Dubai traces back to the great Brigadier Gerard one of my all time favourites and a childhood hero!!!!  The Brigadier has been eclipsed by his great rival Mill Reef as a stallion so through the Lord at War/General line it is good to see some promising horses like Mr Fantasy and "Pioneer" now emerging!

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

So glad to see Mr. Fantasy getting a well deserved shout-out.  This is a very nice colt.  Anticipating the shout to become a deafening roar after the Gotham on March 7.

A little off topic,  but did anybody notice the absence of the Pamplemousse on the Triple Crown nominees.

This years 3 yr olds seem to be shaping up to be a better group than last years. Already by only the end of January at least 3 have turned in higher beyer figs at 3 than Big Brown ever did in his entire career, sprinting or routing. The last quarter times run by the top 5 finishers in the robert lewis at 1 1/16 miles were all 24.0 or better. the filly stardom bound finished her final 1/4 in 24.0 flat in her race. contrast that to big browns final quarters last year when he didn't manage to run any final quarters in any of his races in under 25.2 all the way through the derby.

last years 3 yr olds continued to show how weak they were this weekend. giant moon a preakness contender was whipped in a mere 67K stakes friday, monba a derby contender was whipped at SA on saturday, my friend charlie who was one of the "better" 3 yr olds at years end (he finished twice a close second to pyro and won the super derby was man handled on saturday, and smooth air was beaten in a restricted minor 75K stakes by a winner who was 7 lengths behind him with only 2 furlongs to go and had to veer out in the stretch on top of that. that weak group made big brown look way better than he was in winning the derby and preakness. it didn't take much to beat such a weak group no matter where he started the race. he just had to stay out of trouble and finish.

Nice enough looking horse Mr.Fantasy is,but again I say: lone speed doesn't impress me at all.

I'll take Stardom Bound over any of these other 3yo's at the moment.Did you not see her explosiveness?..damn,what a race horse.Wait til' they have her fully cranked,this was her 1st race in 3 1/2 months..On to the SA Derby against the males,she's something special I tell ya'!

For Derby Mass...Pamplemousse is on the Triple Crown list under The Pamplemousse

Its nice to get excited and Mr. Fantasy is interesting but the splits he ran were not very fast. Watch Vineyard Haven in the Champagne again and notice the splits. Lets hope for a little more speed in the Gotham to see what Mr. Fantasy really has.  He hasn't had to look another horse in the eye yet. The first two races have been very exciting let's see more.

Mr Fantasy looks like a potential star in both performance and pedigree but I do believe that he is being overhyped with respect to the Derby.  As a late foal it may be a mistake to "throw him to the wolves" in the triple crown races when, interms of maturity he could really be blossoming around the summer when Saratoga racing begins.

Jason you are as effusive over this colt as you were over Old Fashioned so tell us which one is your current favourite for the Derby.

Interesting prospect this Mr. Fantasy. It looks like he'll have to beat a better crop of 3 yr olds than last years if he gets to the Derby. Look at the final quarter finish times of the top 5 in the Robert lewis and at Stardom Bounds last quarter as well. All were in 24.0 or under. Contrast that to big brown who THROUGH the Derby didn't run a final quarter in under 25.2. On top of that there have already been at least three 3 yr olds to run better beyer figs this year (it's real early too) higher than big brown ran his entire career sprinting or routing.

Jason, for whatever its worth I'll give you more than my pick.  Here's my answer to Steve Haskin's Derby Dozen: 1)Big Drama 2)Vineyard Haven(sorry Draynay) 3)Midshipman 4)Old Fashioned 5)Breakwater Edison 6)Jose Adan 7)Hello Broadway 8)Square Eddie(would be ranked 6th if sound) 9)Notonthesamepage(everybody's danger if he has stamina) 10)Chocholate Candy 11)Capt Candiman Can 12)Friesan Fire(AP Indy's greatest hope of siring a Derby winner).

I would look out for a Todd Pletcher trainee called Munnings as well as Flying Pegasus to be claiming Derby Dozen positions soon.  The biggest ommission is the synthetic specialist Pioneer Of The Nile.  If he were not Bob Baffert's charge I would not even mention his name but his trainer deserves maximum respect.    

I'm sorry, I can't get all hyped up about an Inner Track horse unless and until it shows it can run on real dirt.(People complain about poly horses but Aqueduct inner track specialists have been around for years without drawing the same amount of disdain. 'Cappers just adjusted to the fact that some horses didn't take to it and some loved it.)

Jason,

Can you tell me what were the Beyer Figs for Pioneer Of The Nile, Papa Clem, I Want Revenge, and Stardom Bound this weekend?

I'm the longest tenured continuous West Point partner, dating back to late August 1993 with Terry. That is my personal disclaimer statement! In that regard I'm somewhat bias but, having said that, this one is absolutely the real deal. The fact that he is a late May 2006 foal means he will not be a chronlogical 3 YO until some 10 days AFTER the Preakness. Having been through the Great, Good, bad and the ugly with WPT this one has more raw potential than possibly all of our previous best (Flashy Bull, Seattle Fitz, Dream Rush, Ethan Man and the rest of the graded stakes and non-graded stakes horses that displayed tremendous promise early on, sometimes realized and sometimes not. You dream that a horse likes this will come around and, when they do, you respect them as you would the finest bottle of wine ever known to you. Watch this horse and enjoy the ride. WPT's is just simply continuing to make wishes come true!

Interesting article Jason and it's great that a guy can read all this and get a grasp on all these so called under the radar horses.

Went over to Caesars Palace on the 7th for my Derby picks The boss bet the Fair Grounds and won so he flipped me 20$ for my Derby bets.

Danger to Society 30/1

Indygo Mountain 35/1

Square Eddie 25/1

Patena 40/1

Bruins {Stanley Cup his bet}

It was the first time I'd ever bet the Derby Futures, so I didn't realize they have a list you can bet. I thought you could bet pretty well any horse. Oh well live and learn.

Missed the races at SA And Gulfstream cause those tracks are fighting with Vegas so I guess they pulled the signal. Don't mind watching Phoenix or Charles Town but this time of year a guy wants to watch the big tracks. All in all it was fun, saw 2 shows but it was raining for a couple of days so we just went to the mall and shopped.

Is Bloodhorse going to do the roadtotheroses thing again this year?

PS. If you want the list with the odds I can fax it to you.

JASON, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE FIELD FOR THE GOTHAM - REALIZE ITS A BIT EARLY TO KNOW FOR SURE. ASSUME MR. FANTASY AND HAYNESFIELD FROMM NY - HAVE YOU HEARD OF ANYONE ELSE?

I've been on this horse's bandwagon ever since I saw him run the first time.Yes it is early,yes he hasn't faced any of the top colts in his crop yet. Yes his fractions were not blazing in that 8 1/2 F. allowance at Aqueduct. But what is very apparent to me is the fact that he is a quick learner,he relaxed for Mig and he handled his first 2 turn race with ease.He did run some sharp splits in his maiden going 6F. So speed isn't a problem,but it isn't just speed that impresses me. He just glides along and waits for his rider to say GO! This from a horse who has only run twice,and when he gets the signal boy does he go. He has very good turn of foot,so good that he hasn't even seen the stick. Everything looks easy for him,that is how real good horses look when they run,they look like they are just cantering. Yes it may be early but I believe you are 100% right when you said after the Gotham everyone will know who he is. I'm confident of that.

There are so many horses that look better than last years pretenders at this point. heck even I who draynay bless his heart thinks is a super horse got beat in a mere 75k restricted race over the weekend. I thought I had it won but some clunker came from 7 lengths behind me with 2 furlongs to go and took me down. Mr. Fantasy may be the real deal but he'll find the competition much tougher this year than last years derby winner did.

Jason the ticket says +500? No odds on it like my Derby tickets. Just read I lost 5$ already. Indygo Mountain is off the Derby trail. I know better than to get high on a horse with problems this time of year.

I see FF has got his act together, nice win and he looks like he's moving forward like a good horse should. I thought about a bet on him{20/1} but took Square Eddie instead. Had to keep a close watch on the gambling cause I could run out of money pretty quick the way I go at it lol!

Hey I forgot Jason congrats on the nice nice hit at Gulfstream a week ago! I told you I hit the EX in the Holy Bull eh? Boxed 3 of them for 2$. I know, should have bet 10$ but didn't want to dip into the holiday money. I'm not the smartest knife in the drawer!

Ranagulzion: that list...are you serious?..Chocolate Candy finished behind Pioneer of the Nile and he's not on your list?..huh!

Oh yea the Boss put alot more on it than my little 5$ wagers. He keeps me in slot money playing the tables and the ponys!

Beyer figures are realy quite worthless as yall are learning a bit too slowly.  

Mr. Fantasy is for real!  I saw both races, and he's got the goods, he moves very similar to the greatest NY bred of all. I think this is going to be a far superior group to the 3 year olds from last year, and Pletcher has a big Grey (Dunkirk) who looks like an absolute monster to me. I've watched every race ran at Gulfstream this meet and forget the numbers he received this horse is a superstar in the making. He chewed up ground on a track were deep closers have had no luck, all while not getting out of a gallop. I believe Pletcher is playing it close to the chest because he knows he's got the one he's been waiting on, but we will just have to wait and see. You want to view a pedigree check Dunkirk's out at pedigree query.

Danger To Society is being pointed to the Gotham as well by new trainer, Rick Dutrow.

AS someone who follows Mr. Fantasy every day his allowance race is even more impressive when you here what Terry Finley said in the above interview. Some of you are complaining about the slow splits but the plan was to keep him sprinting so they probably were not even teaching him to relax on the front end going two turns. He was entered in an allowance sprint but the race didn't fill then NYRA brought the race back a week later and it filled but this time the card got snowed out. So they were left with a two turn alowance race which they didn't think he was ready for and he rationed his speed all on his own which shows he is a very smart and talented horse who knows how to adapt to adversity which gives him a huge edge in the Derby. In my opinion the Gotham will be one of the most entertaining preps with Mr. Fantasy and Haynesfield meeting up.

Troubled trips are what the Derby is about.  Lone speed does well but it only comes along every 20 years or so (Winning Colors).  Pioneer of the Nile had a pretty easy 3/4 and then all kinds of trouble on the far turn.  He still kicked it home in under 24 sec to win. The B Lewis looked a lot like the Derby minus 10 additional horses (& some dogs).  The Derby strategy for stalkers and closers has to be "Go 10 wide on the turn and run down the center of the track."  Sometimes the camera can't even pick the horse up until deep stretch they are so far out. Let's hope Mr. Fantasy is still out front where he will remain out of trouble and can hold of the charge.

Jason, I'm surprised that you are unaware that Jose Adan is an unbeaten 3YO gelding(disqualified in the Grade III Arlington-Washington Futurity, his 3rd start, last Fall).  He is one of the Godolphin "sleepers" packing an amazing stretch kick and good tactical speed.  The last report from Dubai suggested that he is in great shape and his Triple Crown preparations going well.  His sire Crypto Star was the winner of the 1997 Louisiana Derby(Grade 3) and fifth place in the Kentucky Derby that year behind winner Silver Charm.  I'm not sure how Godolphin will deploy their arsenal of talented 3YOs but watch out for this one.

Slew.em.All: If indeed Pioneer Of The Nile is as good on dirt as he is proving to be on the synthetic he deserves to be in the D/Dozen as per Steve Haskin and out of respect/Derby-reverence for his trainer Bob Baffert I may later make my adjustment but for now Chocholate Candy is a very hot Candy Ride(his sire) commodity, showing consistent improvement.  Also, he was really motoring down the stretch for a close up 3rd after a wide trip in that race won by Pioneer Of The Nile. That's my explanation.

Smooth Air and Draynot... I will let Cowboy Cal know you don't think much of last years 3 year old class.

Ranagulzion; I get your explanation,somewhat..I just don't get the part where you ommit POTN from your list when neither he or Chocolate Candy have raced on dirt..btw: I'm not on POTN bandwagon either.It just doesn't make sense to me,that's all.

And,I just found out that my East Coast "sleeper" horse,Tranquil Manner, is hurt and off the Derby Trail....dammmit!!!

Slew.em.All: Valid point however I am making an exception for Chocholate Candy although he is untried on dirt.

Draynot & Smooth Air: It is time that you get over your addiction to bashing Big Brown and last years crop of 3YOs.  Admittedly it was a subpar crop but from very early in the season it was clear that first War Pass and then Big Brown was head and shoulders above the rest.  Really it was not by rocket science that I am on record as commenting on one of these blogs that Big Brown could win the Derby from the parking lot "pulling a train".  In fact Big Brown's Derby performance could win in any other year of the last forty Derbies except possibly 3or4: Secretariat, Spend A Buck, Monarcos and Barbaro.

Therefore let us enjoy the this years contentious group of talented 3YOs without berating the previous year.  We have a competitive elite group of about eight 3YOs well seasoned from their 2YO campaign and some exciting (hyped-up) "young turks" like Mr Fantasy, Free Country, The Pamplemousse (synthetic runner)Mr Hot Stuff, Dunkirk and Theregoesjojo waiting to be revealed.  

My experience tells me that the winner emerges from among the elite 90% of the time so beware of being "shafted" by too much speculation.  

Dray, Cowboy Cal is a synthetic/turf horse, and just because he won one stakes does not make him good. Is he a nice horse yes, but just because of one performance, in which the horse barely won, you can't say that the whole class of three year olds last year was good. The truth is that last years three year olds with a couple of exceptions were over all very below satifactory. There were no real Classic horse, only milers and sprinters, and any decent horses that held promise weren't sound. This year we have FF, OF, VH, Midshipman, Mr. F, POTN, SB, Capt. Candyman, and so many more. Last year we had for the spring a brilliant BB, and the only other American three year old worth mentioning last year that could go classic dist. was CJ. So far this year has been far superior to last years. One good stakes performances does not make you or the crop good, it means you had one good performance. If you want to be good or even great you need to be that way over a long period of time CC has not.

Ranagulzion...Love Chocolate Candy! Pioneer of the Nile's recent victory just validates his 1/2 length loss to Pioneer and I Want Revenge in the CashCall.  This horse (Chocolate Candy) is screaming for another 1/8th and Hollendorfer was not interested in backing him up to a mile in the San Rafael and the B. Lewis was too soon after his Cal Derby win.  I hope he surfaces in the Santa Anita Derby.  He should make his presence felt at longer distances.

nay nay,

Cowboy Cal is coming around. He looks like a formidable turf runner up to 1 1/16 and maybe able to stretch to 1 1/8. One out of thousands doesn't make a class good though. Remember his most recent race was won against last years 3 yr olds only. The race prior to that was a nice win for him especially since Magnum came back with a big win himself. I suspect though that if Curlin had raced against and beaten Cowboy Cal your response would be that he was nobody.

90Proof, I don't know how old you are or how long you have been following the game, but 'the best New York-bred of all' very likely raced in 4-mile heats. American Eclipse was the best American racehorse to come along before Lexington; he won the biggest race in American history before the Civil War (by winning 2 of 3 heats on the same day). He was also twice leading US sire, standing in NY. The history of the sport goes back beyond the last 10 years.

simpson21 - thanks for the info on Danger to Society being pointed to the Gotham . Anyone else heard who may be entering yet??

Ann in Lexington - are you saying the winner of the Gotham is not for real because he will have run on the inner ttrack at the Big A

Draynot and LDP give me a break...

Since being given a five-month break following a ninth-place finish in the Kentucky Derby last year, Cowboy Cal has won three stakes in four starts since October. He won his second consecutive stakes of the current Santa Anita meeting in Saturday's $250,000 Strub Stakes for 4-year-olds.

The victory confirmed Cowboy Cal's status as a contender for the $1 million Santa Anita Handicap on March 7.  Check his record before you guys start talking again. And Draynot do me a favor please name the horse Curlin beat last year that was any good at all...Well Armed ? A taped up Wanderin Boy ? Maybe AP Arrow ? Fact is Curlin got whipped by the second best 3 year old last year! Only the man above knows how bad Big Brown would have beat him.

Good god can we please get off this who beat who from LAST year! It's so old it's a joke. Hello it's 2009 and we all want to read comments from people about the 3yr olds THIS year.

As i said A few stake against turf horses that and synthetic horses, does not make you a champion on dirt. Dray do me a favor and tell me the # of G1's CC has won. As i said he is a nice horse, and if he wins the SA Handicap, then against a good field, then keeps that momentum, he'll be a good horse, but just because he's getting decent this year does not mean he was good last year. O and in answer to you question, Asiatci boy is no slouch, Vermillion is one of Japan's best dirt horses. BB on the other hand beat absoultley nothing all year long. RP and Henry, were Englands best 3yr olds and would've had BB eating their turf or fiber.

nay nay,

Give you a break? Once again you failed to read and comprehend what I wrote. It's like trying to reason with a little kid with you. I actually pointed out that the Cowboy was coming around and his victory over Magnum was elevated by Magnum's next out victory. That victory over Magnum carries far more weight to me than all his other victories which came against his weak classmates.

As for Wanderin Boy he ran faster last year "taped up" than Big Brown did in his life. He put up better Beyer Figs (a 116 which Big Brown never even came close to running)when he ran and was beaten by Curlin. Wanderin Boy faced some of the best horses in recent history throughout his career (Invasor, Bernardini, Lawyer Ron, and the Two Time-Two Time Horse Of The Year Curlin), he was not just another nobody like Big Brown beat and was beaten by in his races.

I agree to a point with Wanda. Let's talk about this years 3 yr olds and not about last years sorry forgettable class of american colts who showed up for the derby. it was a disgrace that such a weak group went to post and allowed a horse to win from the 20 hole. let's put that all in the history books and hope for much better things from this years class.

I hope he gets to the Derby him and Stardom Bound are two of my favorite horses and I will be at The Kentucky Derby hopefully to watch my two favorites compete with eachother!

Wanda, you tell em!

Too bad you had rain in Vegas. Didn't want to go with the 'all others' huh?  

I think it's true, this is TC talk. We have tons of horses to talk about even though the entries were down this year. FOCUS boys and girls FOCUS.

Yo Yo Homie what up?

Yea the rain was bad the one day, got a picture of the storm sewer under the monirail walkway at the Sahara. Water was half way up the cement channels. I didn't ask about "all others", that's probably why I didn't get them. Oh well put it down to dumb Canadian! I missed the races on Sat and Sun cause of the signal dispute. Bummer, then I get home and find out Indygo Mountain is out! The trip was great and I did lots of shopping.{woman's thing}.Got to stay focused like you say cause we're in for the long haul.

Agreed that we should stay on topic and not post last years news,along with people on their vacations,snowboarding,playing at the beach,Vegas,reminiscing, etc.,etc...

Next weeks Southwest Stakes should be a good one with Jason's Derby pick Old Fashioned(or is it Mr.Fantasy now?)heading the field..I'm looking for some value and going with Poltergeist and Flat Out to outrun the favorite.

For the record I would like to say I have no idea what ANYONE sees in Old Fashioned.  What I see is a horse winning a race with VERY slow fractions.  Until he faces a 1:10 and change and wins I don't think he has a prayer.  Let's see him win a race with some decent fractions before putting this horse ahead of Vineyard Haven.

HELLO JASON?

What do you think regarding Haynesfields' chances of making it to the Derby?

WANDA:

Why not let Draynay discuss BB. I don't see a problem with it,in fact I'm a BB fan myself. Individuals on this blog in many instances "bait" Draynay regarding BB. That's not to say I agree w/everything Draynay says,but I respect ANYONE that has such fierce loyality for one horse.

HEY SLIDER:

Guess what,if winning from post twenty is such a cakewalk,then it wouldn't have taken eighty yrs. to repeat it!

I see Mr Fantasy didn't make it on the top 25 for the Derby Futures pool - interesting

There are quite a few very interesting 3 year olds out this year, but when I was Mr. Fantasy he made my heart beat faster. What beautiful conformation and fluid movement! He is so sensible and kind after the race he looks like an old hand. Clif H you are  in for a real treat! He looks like the real deal to me!

Dray,

    Go back a few blogs, when OF won the remsen last year, you got just as excited as everyone else. O i believe in his first two races he ran some pretty decent fractions on the frunt end and still win. The reason some of us do see something in OF is because, you don't see horse win races like that all the time. The only win i ever saw a horse win like that was in the Preakness with BB. Y, because the jock was sitting stock still and never touched OF with the whip, and he still won by 7 lengths, while on cruise control. He was also facing probably the same level of competition that BB had been facing all year too.

I'm trying to get odds with British bookies on Mr. Fantasy; what I've seen and read is intriguing and he's worth some interest at the right price.  No joy yet though, I guess they're reading blogs like this before they make their mind up!

hey mikie,

First of all I'm quite sure that not every Derby in the last eighty years had 20 entries. That right there minimizes your claim. I'm also quite sure that last years Derby was an anomoly in that one horse stood out head and shoulders over the rest of the group. His connections chose the 20 hole because they knew there was no competition and all they had to do was get a clean break and stay out of trouble to beat the weak group that showed up that day. One can chose whatever statistics they want to elavate their point. The most relevant thing here is that Big Brown was not facing any horse that day that could hold a candle to him. In fact that was pretty much how his very short career went. By design he never faced the best the world had to offer at any point. H ebeat up on inferior competition all year. Even his Fla. Derby win which along with his KY Derby win was th etwo best races he ran wasn't as tough to do from the 12 hole as some would like to believe considering he faced absolutely nobody with much talent on the dirt. Same scenario there, stay out of trouble and ya win.

Well Mike R, does that mean that you respect my loyalty for Curlin? I mean on some other blogs me and you have gotten into it, and it doesn't seem like you do. Don't worry, i just kidding. I will say i get extemely annoyed with Dray, but in regaurds to BB, i do respect that loyalty, since i myself have it, only for a differnt horse. Mike and Dray, BB was a very good horse, and maybe had he raced longer and not had bad feet, then i'd call him great, i've even said i thought if he had good feet he in my oppinion could've been able to beat Curlin, and i like Curlin 10x's better. Back to the point, i don't think if BB were facing Barbaro, Bernardini, SS, Hard Spun, Curlin, or any of the crops those horses came from he would've won from post twenty. He was able to have a clear trouble free trip thanks to that post, which was due to fact he did have enough acceleration to get where he was in the field. From where i'm standing, because he towered over the field in talent by so much, was the reason he won from that post. I belive if Curlin had had that post, and had switched years with BB he too would've won the Derby, and possibly the TC. But thats just my oppinion.

draynay,

I see plenty of potential in Old Fashioned. What you don't seem to understand is that Old Fashioned may well be capable of those types of fractions but it would be a huge mistake for his trainer to have him cranked to the gills this far out from the Derby just to please people like you. On the other hand Old Fashioned may not be capable of going on in the Derby after keeping up with those types of fractions. But we are talking the KY. Derby here and I challenge you to come up with any horse who ran a 1:10 6F fraction IN THE DERBY and went on to win. Certainly your Big Brown didn't accomplish that, he ran a 1:11.8 6f time and a 1:36.4 mile in his win. You don't have to run the fractions you keep throwing out in the Derby to win especially if the competition is anything like last years was.

TO LDP:

I don't balme you for being a loyal supporter of Curlin. I think he's a great horse,just don't care for the trainer. We all have our favorite horse. I knew Zenyatta probably wouldn't win HOY,but I supported her from the beginning. When I watched her run early last year I felt she was something special. My gf lives in Calif. so I fly there often. What I despise is individuals that know next to nothing slamming horses,(I'm not referring to you). But some on this blog and others will slam a horse no matter what accomplishment. That makes me sick! For example some currently on this blog have slammed the great Cigar. Of course,that's their right of opinion,but I ask how do you claim to know a fraction regarding racing and slam an animal like him? I've seen Cigar several times at the Horse Park and can tell you I felt in the company of greatness. That's what kills me that some are stupid enough no matter what they find a lame excuse to not give credit when it's due!

TO SLYDER:

I'm not going to debate what BB did or didn't do,but I can tell to without a doubt for him to accomplish what he did with his feet always being a work in progress is something special. It's not his fault who he ran against or that he was at the mercy of a trainer that's a jerk!

Because MIKE RELVA, this is the 2009 Triple Crown Talk. The BB, Curlin etc has been beaten with a stick. It's over it's done it ain't going down in the history books as the greatest race it's going down as the subject that was talked about more than the horse actually ran. PLEASE LET'S TALK ABOUT THE HORSES IN THIS YEARS DERBY!!! (sorry to yell, seems like some just can't hear, or don't want to listen)

Bummer on your bet Wanda.

Actually Silver City might be the better Calhoun horse.

Am I the only one on this blog who thinks Draynay and Mike Relva are the same person

Zebra do you really think I need someone to agree with me?  My opinion is just that my opinion.  You don't have to agree with it and you don't even have to like it.  However it may or may not help shape your own opinion one way or the other.  That is what good blogs like this one do.  You may not like what I have to say but you will always know where I stand and why.  And for your information Draynot... Monarchos ran a 1:10 and won the Derby.

slewemall, we're conversing with our fellow bloggers in a sane civil manner.

The discussion USUALLY starts with horse racing related subjects (like the trip to Vegas i.e. betting the Derby futures, the snowboarding related to the cold weather in Kentucky etc. the beach, well that was Jason who started that, or didn't you READ his blog before you posted?) and then drifts but how many times can some people talk about the same thing over and over?

Whenever the TRUE horsemen came on here and tried to talk strictly horses from an insiders point of view they got shouted down.

Me, I'd much rather have a little pleasant personality attached to the unknown names than to hear the same thing said 5,000 times by the same person.

You can ignore the innocuous friendly banter once or twice per blog between posters who connect, but that's impossible with people who barrage us with the same opinions over and over and over and say it in a nasty, confrontational way.

With all this talk going on this blog I am going to stick my neck out here and say that the one to beat in the Kentucky Derby will be Pioneer of the Nile with I want Revenge closing fast. Just a thought. But if you look at his performaces and his breeding he shouts out Derby winner.

Mike, I get what you mean. I know i can get quite hot headed when some push the right buttons. I've been watching races for 8 years, more so over the last 4-5 years. But i've been a horse person for 9 years, and you should see the amount of of books i have on horses. Basicly if i didn't have school, i'd be around horses 24/7. I will admit i don't know a lot about racing, but i know enough about racing and horses in general to make up for it. That is why when i read some ppl posts against me, which imply that i haven't the slightest clue on what i'm talking about, it infuriates me. Thats at times why i get so defensive against you and dray, cause from what i read sometimes it seems like you think i'm stupid. As you also can tell i don't like anyone trashing anything my favorite horse has done. I say favorite, because i never got to see Cigar, Holly Bull, Skip Away, Sec., or the Bid, like some others have, so Curlin form what i see is great, and from what i've seen the best so far. I do understand what you mean about ppl trashing horses like Cigar and those above, it grates on my nerves to, because i have watched tapes and can't believe ppl would do that to such a spectacular beautiful animal. Are we good?

well the sports guys poll sees it this way (although I don't agree!)

yet this might be much the way of Pool #1...

                     votes

Old Fashioned        (58)

Pioneer of the Nile  (37)

Vineyard Haven       (33)

Patena               (28)

Mid Shipman          (26)

Friesan Fire         (25)

Capt. Candyamn Can   (18)

Giant Oak            (15)

Hello Broadway       (14)

West Side Bernie     (13)

Stardom Bound (f)     (8)

Flying Pegasus        (8)

Hey Jordan how are you? I will keep an eye on Silver City but got to stay with my HH. I can't wait to see Bear's Prospector come back off his last start he should be right there. And of course VH on Thursday. Should be an interesting week with the roadtotheroses contest coming up.

Well, as in my previous blog as I stated on Jan. 14th " I hope I can bet Mr. Fantasy @ 100-1 odds."

I got it @ Wynn's Casino in Vegas last month. The pit boss didn't even have his name listed, so I told the teller his name and she punched him in as a contender for me and I got down for the 100-1. Now I see in Feb.he's only in the field @ 5-2.

Guess my flight from NY to Vegas was well worth the travel.Besides my bet was free, as I won the $ I bet playing Black Jack & " LET IT RIDE !"

TO LDP:

I understand!

So Jason, here in the UK they're offering me 25-1 Mr. Fantasy to win - sounds like they've been reading your blog!  Seriously though, I think that's pretty short considering - what do you think (seeing as you got 75-1)!!

Hey Big, hows sunny Cal? I think you called it right on that one although Slew.em.all has a point there. I'm sorry I got away from the subject at hand Slew. As for the other comment there's a very small group of people that want to talk about the same thing over and over again. The point has been made many times last year on this blog so why rehash the same argument? I want to hear about everything including ALL sane opinions on the 3yr old crop this year. You know how lucky we all are to get together here from all over the world and talk racing? Don't lose sight of that and try not to get caught up in a verbal exchange that means nothing at the end of the day.

So..me and the Gang watched VH's race in Dubai,and...well,what can u say?..it didn't go well for him.Although I believe every horse deserves a Mulligan,especially coming off a lay-off,he just doesn't look like a Derby contender to me.His female side of the family is "strictly" sprinters pedigree!..His stride looked horrible!.either he disliked the track or something is wrong with him physically..Either way,he better win impressively next outing or forget about the KY Derby,because they're saying he might have a prep here in the US..Think about it: the UAE Derby in late March,fly all the way back here for a prep in mid-April,then turn around and race in the Derby(and that's probably the best case scenario)....NO WAY!!! Not Happening!

BTW: his stablemate Desert Party looked pretty good.

Ranagulzion: you were saying about Jose Adan?....lol j/k.

Wanda: no need for apologies,I was mainly tired of people bringing up last years baloney,as your are too..So,lets concentrate on the TC Trail and this years 3yo crop,for now...there's plenty of horses and preps left to talk about.

But a little banter now and then won't hurt,will it?

I hear Beethoven is tearing up his barn in Fla..that's a good sign,I guess he's ready to roll.Don't sleep on him people!

Hey Mike, now that i don't have Curlin aroud you mind if i become a fan of Zen this year? Looks like it could be a year for the fillies, since we have Zen, SB, PS, Cocoa Beach, and Music Note around. Then again maybe some of the Ok horses last year will turn out just to have been late bloomers and steal the show. How about the three year olds this year too. This years crop, so far look pretty good with POTN, OF, FF, Mr.F and some others. O and if Midshipman, desert party and VH can come over and strut their stuff, we'll have a very good group of horses over all this year.

nay nay,

I figured somewhere in the past there might have been one or two who ran those types of fractions. That just goes to prove my point again, you almost always never have to run those types of fractions to win a Derby. If I recall that day there were a number of track records set. Bill Finley wrote that "The Churchill Downs track was harder and faster than nearby I-264 during an afternoon in which three track records fell. It took that kind of surface for it to be accomplished with those fractions, an obvious freak occurence.

I see another of last years Preakness contenders (Stevil)went down in a mere allowance race on Wednesday.

Just goes to further show what a weak field that was. I guess you'll need to hitch your wagon to another pony after Vineyard Havens performance Thursday nay nay. I believe Alan Shuback described it this way. Vineyard Haven "caved in" at the quarter pole. Just goes to show you can't judge a 3 yr old by what he did at two. Others catch up and sometimes leave them in the dust of Dubai.

I just read that VH ran forth, beaten 10 1/2 lengths behind desert party. The winning time for Desert Party was 1.37 and 3/5, which means VH's final time was probably around 1.39 1.40 for the mile, since 1 lenth eqauls about 1/5 of a second. Looks like Old Fashions 1.38 aint so bad after all is it Dray. I wouldn't give up on him though just yet, since in was his first race in god knows how long, but if he's gonna win the Derby, he needs to step up more than that.

Slew.em.All: The last laugh will be the best laugh.  I think my turn to laugh will come.  Its still early days my friend.

Mr. Fantasy certainly looks like the real deal, and Stardom Bound seemed to be weakening a bit in Las Virgenes. As for Curlin...has evryone forgotten that Rags to Riches beat him???? He is overrated. I cannot take him seriously since that Belmont where he was supposed to leap to greatness and a better horse beat him.

In  watching  Mr. Fantasy  I  see  a  horse  that  could  be  something  special. He  is  calm,  cool  and  seemingly  more  mature  than  his  age.  I'm  looking  forward  to  the  Gotham  to  see  how  he  progresses.

jon,

You make it sound like Rags To Riches was some flop they way you put it, has everyone forgotten she beat Curlin and you can't take a horse seriously who she beat. Rags was no Da Tara and certainly not a mere maiden when she faced and beat Curlin and if she had been born a year later she could have won a Triple Crown.

TO:JON

Tell you what,if anyone thinks Rags was a fluke,they would be fooling themselves. As for Stardom Bound,she's for real!