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Gotham Analysis and Selections

168 Comments

Saturday's Gotham is the first chance for 3-year-olds on the Derby trail to earn graded stakes money in New York. For that reason, we usually get our first real look at promising horses that are based in the Northeast and a new Triple Crown prospect usually emerges.

This year's race came up a strong. A field of nine was entered and at least four of them - Haynesfield, Mr. Fantasy, Imperial Council and I Want Revenge - are high on the watch lists of many. Throw in Pletcher's pair of good-looking Lion Heart colts (Naos and Masala) and you have what should be a very competitive race. It has early speed (Haynesfield and Mr. Fantasy), a few that like the lay just off the pace (Masala, Imperial Council and Russell Road) and a couple that might be hoping to close off a hot pace (Naos and I Want Revenge).

For me, it's the one prep race I have been looking forward to the most so far this year. Let's take a look at the entries and don't forget, to chat about this race and Big ‘Cap day more in-depth, join me here for the premier of the "live" blog on Saturday at noon. Should be fun!

1. Naos: Impressive allowance winner last out at Philly Park in his first try stretching out. I didn't get a chance to see the race but looks like he made a huge move on the turn. It's notable that he also broke from the inside post in that victory. Not sure what happened in the Jimmy Winkfield, but he proved he liked the inner track when breaking his maiden last year. Interesting horse and should be a price. He's worth considering for the upset and in exotics.

2. Russell Road: Well, he's won six in a row - five of them at Charles Town - but the West Virginia-bred is probably overmatched here. Also stretches out for the first time. Would be a shocker. Can't see it.

3. Masala: Pletcher's other colt broke his maiden on the inner track in November when it was muddy. There is a chance of rain in NY on Saturday, so a wet track could help him. Was beaten two lengths by Take the Points in a one-mile allowance at Gulfstream in January after breaking poorly. Take the Points came back to take second in the Sham last weekend, which bodes well for him. I guess you have to respect. I would watch the tote board and see which of Pletcher's pair takes more money. Could be telling.

4. Axel Foley: California shipper was disappointing when losing the El Camino by 11. Hasn't put it all together yet and I don't see it happening here. McLaughlin is trying dirt in hopes that he'll like it better, but I am skeptical. Has had a couple of decent works recently, including his first at Belmont on Feb. 27. Doubtful.

5. Mr. Fantasy: If you've followed this blog at all you know that this is my early Derby horse. His first two starts were dominant wins with big speed numbers and now he steps into open company for the first time. New York-breds who struggle against open company first out are a dime-a-dozen, so that is the big question he must answer here. But I think this colt is different. He moves with such ease and is push-button. I expect him to be on or near the lead with Haynesfield and be in position to win at the top of the lane. Whether he is good enough or not, we'll find out. He has two wins over the track, one at the distance, and early speed on the inner track usually does well. The pick.

6. Haynesfield: Hard to knock anything he's done so far. Likes the track, has a convincing win at the distance and comes from a winning barn. But like Mr. Fantasy, he faces top-level company for the first time, so it's hard to say what will happen. It's notable that his last two works were not very good, but then again, he hasn't worked sharply very often. Also, regular rider Ramon Dominguez is in California for the Santa Anita Handicap. Carries an extra four pounds too. Something tells me Haynesfield takes a step back here. If I'm wrong and he wins, he has to be considered a top-7 Derby horse.

7. Imperial Council: A little surprised he was installed as the 5-2 morning-line favorite being that he tries two turns for the first time and has never run over the inner track. But his talent seems to be there and this could be a breakout race. Has a bullet work at Belmont this week and should get a good, stalking trip behind the leaders. Another notable jockey change is that Prado is also in California to ride Monba in the Santa Anita Handicap and Rajiv Maragh picks up the mount. Hmm. He very well could do what Quality Road did last weekend and vault himself into the Derby mix. Or, as Shug McGaughey has hinted, he might be better set up for the Wood. Tough call.

8. I Want Revenge: Like Axel Foley, a California shipper with graded stakes experience. Only difference is, this one has been very competitive. Lost two close ones to Pioneerof the Nile, who is at the top of nearly everyone's West Coast watch list. We know he can handle the class, but will he like the surface? Another tough call. Joe Talamo flies in for the ride, so they are serious about winning. Been training well since the Robert Lewis and seems to be in good form. I wouldn't leave out of exotics.

9. Giant Ryan: Goes long for the first time and is in way over his head. No thanks.

The Pick: Is Mr. Fantasy as good as I think he is? We'll find out. I already have him bet pretty good in the Derby futures (at 75-1), so no need to go crazy here. I'll just play a straight $50 win ticket and wheel him in exactas with Naos, Imperial Council and I Want Revenge.

In the Santa Anita Handicap I'll go with Zambezi Sun, who has faced the world's best in Europe, cuts back in distance and should be better in his second off a layoff. This is his first start off turf, but has two good works over the Pro-Ride. He'll be coupled with Champs Elysees for Bobby Frankel. I'll use Court Vision and Blue Exit in my exacta box.

Finally, in my upset pick of the week, I'll try Will O Way to shock Stardom Bound in the Oaks. Might as well take a shot, right? Good luck everyone and looking forward to seeing you on the live blog. Who do you like?

168 Comments:

Get ready for the coming out party of Imperial Council !  My future bet has been placed on this beautiful horse and its time to show NY what real racing looks like.  Imperial was made the favorite because of his impressive speed and breeding to go long.  His bullet work tells you he will improve off his last and 2 turns is what this horse has been begging for.  Mr. Fantasy is a good name for your horse Jason because just like all of your fantasies this one is not coming true either.  He is the horse for the course but rating may not be his game and trying something new is never a good idea in these races (ask Notonthesamepage).  I am going with Imperial Council to stamp his ticket to the Derby and playing Hayensfield, Mr. F and Axel Foley on the bottom for my Tri and Super.  Good luck everyone.

Draynay 05 Mar 2009 12:31 PM

Draynay: You mean the same Notonthesamepage that you picked to win the FOY? Funny how confident you were before, but had to eat crow. Not to mention Vineyard Haven, who you handed the Derby to a couple months ago but he is now way down on your top 10 list. Is it easy living with yourself?

Jason Shandler 05 Mar 2009 12:35 PM

Lol... we will see where Mr. Fantasy is on YOUR list after Saturday.  Save your future ticket it may come in handy next time you need kindling.

Draynay 05 Mar 2009 12:45 PM

I am going with you on this one and pick Mr. Fantasy to win. This one will have him on everyone's top Derby list. I think Beltene is going to give Stardom Bound a good run for the money also.

OLDFASHIONED GAL 05 Mar 2009 1:29 PM

LOL Jason,

you are correct sir in pointing out that nay nay changes his mind as often as the minute hand sometimes.

I'm looking forward to the race as much as the next person. I too had a hmmmm moment when I saw who the jock on the "imp" is. nay nay's VH is floundering in the desert so are they now importing (rajiv) to ride his selection to keep all things in perspective?

I'm dissapointed that neither Dominguez or Prado are there to ride. Could it be that neither of them is very confident in those they could have ridden? I mean hop off of the Imp to ride Monba? LMAO didn't he finish dead last in last years Derby against that weak group?

draynot 05 Mar 2009 1:39 PM

Can't see Imperial Council being the morning line favorite...oh!wait,it's the "Shug in NY" factor!.I've seen these kind before where they look good @ GP allowances then He tries them against Stakes caliber and don't quite measure up.I think he's in over his head here.

I Want Revenge is the Class of the field obviously,and he'll have plenty of pace to chase.Like Jason said: speed does tend to hang around longer in the inner dirt,and a wet track should be no problem,in this case Class should prevail. My Picks:  I Want Revenge on top w/1,3,5,6,7 w/1,3,5,6,7 exotics ..see you at the windows!

Slew.em.All 05 Mar 2009 1:40 PM

I'm really hoping I Want Revenge does very well in the Gotham.  He has been Pioneerof The Niles main competition (shades of Raven's Pass and Henry?).  If he does well that will give legitimacy to the California horses, and I would so love to have Draynay eat even more crow (no offense Draynay... I did really love your interview of Vineyard, lol).

helsbelles 05 Mar 2009 1:42 PM

Draynot: Not having Prado and Dominguez there is vert interesting. On one hand, the SAH is a million dollars, but like you said, Monba? C'mon. If he was serious at IC you would think he'd be there. I cant help but think he'll be better suited for the Wood.

Jason Shandler 05 Mar 2009 1:47 PM

Hi Jason, Can’t beat these blogs with you and Draynay. How long has this diatribe be going on?

Nice set up for the Gotham. I believe the surface is going to play a big part in this race. Earlier in the meet speed held like a rock, which is the same time as Haynesfield and Mr. F galloped, recently this strip has played equally fair to both speed and closers. With rain forecast for Saturday will they seal the track? Big benefit to some, big disadvantage to others in the field. As you know, horses that handle the inner track do not necessarily transfer that form, so I’d still be a bit skeptical of Haynesfield and Mr.F regardless of the outcome, but one of them is probably going to show their not up to the step up in class.

Imperial Council should certainly sit the perfect trip but Shug has continually stated that this race is a progressive race for him. He hasn’t cranked him up, and his past methods show that McGaughey would be more that happy with a move forward in his first two turn effort. I’ve be on this horse since he was a two year old, so I’m not jumping on a bandwagon I have to believe The Wood is his target. Still, he might be that good.

Of the Pletcher pair - they both have ability but looks like they must make a huge move forward with little experience.

Russell Road looks a solid cut below – but wow, what a story Charlestown to Louisville.

Axel Foley seems up against it, and I don’t understand why Giant Ryan is entered.

That leaves the proven caliber horse to beat – I Want Revenge, and if they seal the track he has a ton to overcome. In short, there are way too many variables in this race for me to head to the widow. Best of Luck to All.

mg 05 Mar 2009 1:47 PM

Oh! Jason: about your upset pick of the week,you're kidding right? ha-ha? good one. There's NO way Stardom Bound is losing "if" she's being considered for the SA Derby.

Slew.em.All 05 Mar 2009 1:48 PM

Really tough race to handicap - seems like 4 or 5 could win this and wouldn't be surprised to see 3 of them real close at the wire.

Mr.Fantasy by a nose over a fast closing I Want Revenge with Naos filling out the Trifecta.

SSC 05 Mar 2009 1:49 PM

mg: Good analysis. A sealed track would present a whole new set of factors.

Jason Shandler 05 Mar 2009 1:52 PM

I do agree with you that Mr. Fantasy can win and I have met with WestPoint Thoroughbreds, so I always pull for them! A class act partnership. Good Luck!! However, I am still thinking Pletcher has the horse with here with Masala. Jason, you hit on all the points above why so no need for me to repeat it. Exacta box, Mr. Fantasy and Masala!

Elway 05 Mar 2009 1:57 PM

They won't seal the track - latest forcast is 20% chance for Friday and Saturday

Friday Night -

Chance

Sprinkles

Lo 40°F

Saturday -Slight Chance

Rain

Hi 56°F

SSC 05 Mar 2009 2:05 PM

Mr. Fantasy, Masala, Imperial Council, I Want Revenge,

Haynesfield, there is a 100% chance the winner of the Gotham is on that list. If any one of these win I can say I told you so.

Wait I'm sounding like draynay and his list 100% list for the Derby. Sorry Jason I just couldn't help it.

I'm going with I Want Revenge to run a big race on a fast track. He's faced the toughest of any of these and always given a good showing.

gw_bushwacker 05 Mar 2009 2:12 PM

I dont think there's a great chance that she loses Slew, but anything can happen. I'll tell you one thing though, she won't be a factor in the KY. Derby, even if she does make a good showing in the SA derby and go. Feel free to quote me on this.

Jason Shandler 05 Mar 2009 2:13 PM

Bushwacker why don't you give us your great Derby pick like you did last year so we know who to throw out now.  

Draynay 05 Mar 2009 2:33 PM

Since you know so much draynay why don't you tell me who my pick was last year. You have no idea. At least I'm basing my digs on something you actually said and not making it up because I can't come up with anything else.

I don't see you picking one horse and sticking with it. One minute it is Vineyard Haven the next its another and the next its someone else. Pick enough of them and you might just hit it isn't a phylosophy I respect. I'll reserve my one and only choice for the big day. Until then I could name 10 to 15 like you and have a better chance of being correct but why bother?

gw_bushwacker 05 Mar 2009 2:52 PM

HELLO JASON:

I can see your logic w/regards to Mr. Fantasy. I want Revenge could be interesting,but I can't stand his trainer. I'm going with Haynesfield for the homerun.

Mike Relva 05 Mar 2009 2:52 PM

I find it rather amusing Edgar is riding Monba in the Cap. I guess he has illuions of that million dollar purse. LOL. I think he would have a better chance with Nicanor at Gulfstream. I'll be sticking with Imperial for the Gotham, Zambizi Sun in the Cap and the illustrious Starbom Bound.

DONNA 05 Mar 2009 2:56 PM

Mr. Fantasy and Stardom Bound All the way!!!

anniedixie65 05 Mar 2009 3:07 PM

LOL!  Can never help laughing when draynay and Jason (and usually draynot) get going!

As to the race--I've really been waiting for this one.  Been waiting for that break out performance-as have many.  I believe it will be Mr. Fantasy this year.  Want to see him stretch out successfully, hope he runs huge, as dominant as he has been in the past.  

Jason: keep on providing the articles.  I believe you can write on any topic and kick off a debate for days! Always good fun!!

Nicole E 05 Mar 2009 3:08 PM

I agree with you Slew! Stardom Bound is an amazing filly!

anniedixie65 05 Mar 2009 3:08 PM

OK Jason,I wrote it down,took a picture and had it authorized...But,I get the feeling the only way she goes to the Ky.Derby is if she 1)humiliates the fillies in the SA Oaks then, 2)beats the boys,or just misses while gobbling-up ground in the SA Derby.

We all know she has that killer instinct only the great ones have.And she still has room for improvement,judging by how she hasn't really been set down yet.Her wins have been well in hand.

Don't worry, Rush Limbaugh misspoke the other day too, it happens.  :)  

Slew.em.All 05 Mar 2009 3:14 PM

I'm not sure he is Derby material, but at this distance I wouldn't ignore Asmussen's horse, even if he's spotting the entire field 4 lbs. He obviously loves the track.  

The Wizard 05 Mar 2009 3:14 PM

Slew: That last moron you mentioned misspeaks every hour of his life

Jason Shandler 05 Mar 2009 3:16 PM

LOL..I know he does,no offence intended bro.

Me and my Crew are taking a break here watching the Aqueduct races and it seems like the inner track is playing pretty fair now.Hope it plays the same way this Saturday,..I'm Mclovin' it!

Slew.em.All 05 Mar 2009 3:35 PM

Slew: Looks like there are actually some prices today from Aque-chalk. lol.

Make sure you join me for the live blog Saturday so we can break down the whole card.

Jason Shandler 05 Mar 2009 3:39 PM

Slew !!! Take the 2 in the 9th. Believe in Love....xoxo

Draynay 05 Mar 2009 3:46 PM

Right On Jason,will try my damndest..Saturdays are usually short,hectic mornings for us here at the Farm,but being the Manager I can always make an excuse to go catch-up on "paper work".(wink-wink).  BTW: who's gonna' be your mystery guest? not that u need one.

Slew.em.All 05 Mar 2009 3:52 PM

You're probably right that Stardom Bound won't be headed to the Derby in the end.  Unless Patena, whom IEAH also owns part of, goes backward in his next race or gets injured, I bet IEAH runs Stardom in the Oaks and Patena in the Derby giving themselves a not impossible chance at winning both big races.

Regarding the Gotham, I can see any of several colts winning with those coming from further back being at a disadvantage given the bias of the inside track.

Pollas 05 Mar 2009 3:57 PM

No guest this week Slew. But in the coming weeks I'm gonna line up some profeccional handicappers from around the country. And, I'll have videos of the previous week's prep races so we can break them down.

Jason Shandler 05 Mar 2009 4:07 PM

Mr. Fantasy wins the Gotham with ease. No doubt about it.

Tim 05 Mar 2009 4:57 PM

    Like some others, Prado going in to ride Monba in the SAH and passing up IC in the Gotham is a bit puzzling to me.  Jason, I know you said the SAH is $1 million, but the Derby is $2 million and if IC were as good as some say, I would think Prado would go to Aqueduct to seal up the mount for Derby.  I guess we'll see.  With that being said, I'm taking Mr. Fantasy largely due to speed holding up on the inner track at The Big A.  I'll run I Want Revenge for 2nd as I think he simply is the best of the rest.  I'll probably use my favorite number for 3rd, ALL, and hope for a price.

    In the SAH, I'm taking Colonel John over Blue Exit, Einstein and Zambezi Sun.  I'll play small reverses for a saver.  My price horse for the exotics is obviously Blue Exit.  I like the 3rd off the layoff with him and gradual increase in distance this year.  Good luck to everyone.

Curlin 05 Mar 2009 4:58 PM

That's what I'm talking about Jason! Think outside the box my man..so is the venerable(lol) Draynay one of the professinal handicappers lined-up for your show?..umm,no need to answer..speaking of: Draynay, the "hunch" pick paid-off! Hit the exacta/box,  too bad the favorite came out on top. But the $105+ R.O.I isn't too shabby,I'll take it!  and NO "xoxo" back to you!  lol

Alright,gotta' go make my rounds folks...later

Slew.em.All 05 Mar 2009 4:59 PM

Jeff Mullins has said that "I Want Revenge" is the best colt he has ever laid hands on. Jeff Mullins and his owner (David Lanzman) turned down 3.75 million.

He's a big lengthy colt and the inner track at Aqueduct is not going to help him.

A mile and an eighth is the tell-tale sign of whether a colt is going to go on with it or drop off the radar screen concerning the triple crown trail.

"I Want Revenge" is a colt that disappointed in his last start. He looked as if he wanted no more distance in the mile and a sixteenth race. He might of not of like the track as Jeff Mullins has quoted ...or the blinkers. I'm not sold on this colt yet, but he is food for thought.

The colt I fear is Mr. Fantasy. This colt has raced against inferior competition, but he has talent. When the jock pops the question, the colt gives the answer. I want to see another colt at his throatlatch this weekend. Once another colt looks him in the eye, I want to observe the colt and see if he goes on with it or see if he spits the bit.

Dave Johnson 05 Mar 2009 5:08 PM

That's the question, Dave. How does he respond when looked in the eye? Cant wait to find out the answer.

Jason Shandler 05 Mar 2009 5:12 PM

Sorry jshandler, I just read these comments. I dont write any. But your comment about a true American, Rush Limbaugh, must be answered back. He is the only one who tells it like it is. This democrat clown operation running our country is in way over it's head. This radical socialist president is in way over his head, and he is destroying my country. By the way, I Want Revenge nails Mr Fantasy right on the wire, Imperial Council gets third.

Greaseball 05 Mar 2009 5:56 PM

Jason, If you can believe the info in the article that Haskins just posted on speed figures for the Gotham there won't be anyone running fast enough for him to look at!! That info is bizarre. How do you use it??

SCC 05 Mar 2009 6:17 PM

At one time I want Revenge was a nose off Pioneer of the Nile.  He's obviously shipping east to avoid the Pamplemousse and loosing again to POTN.  With Talamo aboard watch for some pretty aggressive race riding.  They are in this to win not pass another test.

Householder 05 Mar 2009 6:30 PM

What should you read into Prado dismissing the mount on Imperial Council?  After all, he also turned down Dunkirk.

helsbelles 05 Mar 2009 6:35 PM

I Want Revenge gets a shaky top call from me in the Gotham. Who knows how good Mr. Fantasy really is and will Masala's numbers continue to rise! Looks like Shug is using this as a prep for the Wood for Imperial Council. Well, at least we should find out who can handle dirt surfaces, who can carry their speed a turn of ground, and who if any of these wants the 1 1/4 distance.

By the way, Dansant is worth a duece in the "Cap".

TonyC 05 Mar 2009 6:41 PM

The break down of the race !

Naos... Lost to Taqarub by a dozen lengths need I say more ? Toss this horse

Russell Road... has been playing with children in the sandbox.  Now he has to face adults... pass

Masala... Has a win on the surface and should improve he will be on the bottom of a few of my tickets.

Axel Foley... I think he wakes up on dirt here and could steal some money here.  On the bottom of ticket

Mr. Fantasy... Steps up to face open company and finds the water a little deep.  Gets run down late.

Running on only one track before the Derby will make this horse a toss no matter what he does.

Haynesfield... just not fast enough, battles for 2nd with Mr. F

I Want Revenge... is just not good enough on dirt to hang with these and he has raced 6 times with only 1 win pass.

Draynay 05 Mar 2009 6:48 PM

Greaseball: I dont like to get into politics, especially on this blog, but I will respond to your comments one time and then move on.

First of all, you say Limbaugh "is the only one who tells it like it is." Are you kiddinig me? The man ridiculed people with drug addictions for years and turned out to be one himself. He is a stone cold liar and the biggest hypocrite out there - an utter joke. If you listen to the guy for more than 3 seconds you are wasting your time.

And then you say "this democrat clown operation running our country is in way over it's head." Really? You can tell this after 2 months, huh? And if he is running the country into the ground, what did the buffoon in office for the last 8 years do? I'll answer for you. He set us back 50 years.

Jason Shandler 05 Mar 2009 7:42 PM

SCC: Steve's article on Mr. Fantasy made me even more confident that he wins.

Jason Shandler 05 Mar 2009 7:44 PM

I Want Revenge should win - he is the best

AnneM 05 Mar 2009 8:07 PM

greaseball:  change your handle to "crystal ball"  except Mr. Fantasy wins by a nose.

Skyfire 05 Mar 2009 8:39 PM

Greaseball your name and your affection for an obnoxious slob is shameful.  President Obama has accomplished more in 6 weeks than Bush did in 8 years.  Bush left the country in shambles and you have the audacity to defame our current President? Republicans like you continue to lose seats in the House and Senate and still don't get it.  We as a nation grow tired of banter from people like you and refuse to be held back by your old arguments that you continue to hold on to making you and Rush more irrelevent each day.

Draynay 05 Mar 2009 8:51 PM

How will Mr. Fantasy respond when looked in the eye?  Just like his big bro Tin Cup Chalice responds!  And I'll be there to see it.  

Derby132 05 Mar 2009 9:02 PM

All this speculation on Talamo heading east to ride I Want Revenge....he's banned at SA for three days starting March 7 for causing interference there last Friday!

Derby132 05 Mar 2009 9:05 PM

Breakdown of the race part ll

Imperial Council... brilliant 99 Beyer chasing down lone speed first time back off a long layoff.  This horse is built to go long and should love the two turns.  Has speed to stay close and will get his first chance to run at slower fractions then he has seen to date.  May pull a freak performance and win big.

Giant Ryan... May be in here to be a rabbit only. 300 to 1 would not be enough for me to bet a dollar on this horse.  Good luck to everyone.

Draynay 05 Mar 2009 9:12 PM

What's the story with the inner track at Aqueduct? If there is a chance of moisture it's easier to seal it and open it up than the other way around. What's the inner track length? 7/8? Could that make a difference with deep closers, how fair does the track play?

Wanda 05 Mar 2009 9:23 PM

Do not think that grey filly is gonna lose this weekend! Jeff Mullins is going East cuz they're too tough this year in the West! Get used to it NY, synthetics have forced some Cali horses out of So Cal/on to dirt--Santa Anita plays like a turf course--beware of backing first time dirt horses who've never experienced kickback! Also think Frankel is dangerous with his entry in The Big Cap! The Big Cap is one of Racing's all time great races and this year looks like a doozie! Frankel's got a couple of Gr 1 winners and he's gonna fetch 10-1 or so....would think Col John has a big chance as Go Go mounts up....I'll get the form tom and hone my final selections---am not sold on I Want Revenge but NY beware-- Jeff Mullins can train! Interested in seeing the NY bred.....

Matthew W 05 Mar 2009 9:26 PM

Draynay,

Why you are an Obama Zombie...why am I not surprised? Look, genius, this is a horse racing blog. But since you brought it up...Obama and Pelosi are going to totally bankrupt this country with a stimulus plan with about 9000 or so earmarks that Obama himself pledged to get rid of during the campaign. The Obama presidency is doomed to failure if he don't stand up to the Wicked Witch of the West Pelosi (and the idiot Reid)and govern from the center.

JINDAL 2012

Now...let's get back to "The Sport of Kings"!

The Wizard 05 Mar 2009 9:26 PM

My picks for what there worth.  Speaking of the speed horse’s I like that crazy front end driving Chuck to make “Haynesfield” last the longest, but I don’t think he will stay til the end.  I look for “I Want Revenge” and the great Joe Talmo to run him down, in-between those might be Pletcher’s horse “Masala” with Coa keeping the mount.  I don’t like the jockey change’s on the other horse’s, class trumps speed here I believe.  So I would box those three.

Now on to “Stardom Bound in the Oaks.  I think a pretty safe bet is to put the best part of the Stimulus Package on her to place.  $700,000,000,000 to Place, LOL

CHANGE? Before to long a lot of people will be out in the streets with a cup begging for CHANGE

BAIL-OUT  BABY!!!

Gary 05 Mar 2009 9:27 PM

One more thing Draynay....

You said that "President Obama has accomplished more in 6 weeks than Bush did in 8 years".

You're right...the Dow has dropped about as much in the last 6 weeks as it did in 8 years. Wall Street has a lot of confidence in Obama's stimulus (aka liberal spending) package.

Socialism is alive and well in the Obama plan for our country.  

God help us if he doesn't change his ways.

The Wizard 05 Mar 2009 9:37 PM

Amen to that Jason and Draynay! Onward and Upward!  BTW: forget about those thoro-graphs stats, KA-POOEY!!!  lol  "Revenge is best served...the 1st Saturday in May"!   late.  

Slew.em.All 05 Mar 2009 9:41 PM

I read an article IEAH stable said as long as Patena has the stuff he will go to the derby and Stardom Bound to the Oaks. If Patena is not the horse than she will go to the derby

mburry 05 Mar 2009 9:44 PM

Wizard: Kind of hard to correct 8 years of disaster in two months, no? Keep trying to sell your erred ways of thinking to us all. We're not buying it. Here's another thought. Why not try to support our current president and be positive? We had to try to stay positive for 8 long years.

And with that, the political discussion is over. I cant let this blog move in that direction - for the good of the blog and my sanity.

Jason Shandler 05 Mar 2009 9:53 PM

I like Mr. Fantasy but with Haynesfield here to challenge him for the lead (unless one of them suddenly decides to rate) makes me iffy about his chances. Axel Foley is a mystery to me, but I Want Revenge has done very well out here against Pioneer. Hopefully he'll take to the dirt as his connections believe he will. I'm not sold on Imperial Council, since he hasn't routed yet, but he's got the pedigree so can he live up to it? And can someone point out to me a Lion Heart who has been able to stretch out?

I hope Frankel has Stardom Bound cranked up for this one. Anyone hear from Haka, the Dynaformer filly?

And while I have my suspicions I am backing Colonel John. Einstein for second?

Justine 05 Mar 2009 10:28 PM

Does anyone have information on the late nominees for the Triple Crown? I want to know if Winstar nominated Mr. Hot Stuff.

Justine 05 Mar 2009 10:48 PM

I am suggesting anyone who bets against Mr. Fantasy is throwing their money away in the Gotham. I look at this as one of the best betting opportunities of the year. If I can get 3-1 on this horse I will consider it a gift from the racing gods. One added bit of information about this horse's breeding is he descends from Stalwart on the dam's side. So what? Well this race is in March and it looks like a wintry day- and an old time betting tidbit I have learned from many years of playing the horses, is that Stalwarts are March winners- they love the cold, gray wintry months, almost as much as they don't like the hot summer months. This is an angle I have scored big on , over and over again.

Good Luck to all.

predict 05 Mar 2009 10:58 PM

How about the top 10 horses that pre race hype suggested they could not loose the derby.

1.  Mister Frisky.  16 for 16 going into the Derby after taking the San Vicente, San Rafael, and Santa Anita Derby.  Laz Barrera announced he was better than Bold Forbs and just a notch below Affirmed.  (And yes I know he was sick).

2.  Easy Goer.  Expensive and bred to win.  Trainer/rider problems throughout 2/3rds of the Triple Crown and a little $27,000 dollar horse that refused to quit.  

3.  A.P. Indy.  Never made it to the gate.  He probably still would have faired better than Arazi with a bruised foot.

4.  Pyro.  What was all of that about?  "Bet him or get burned."  What?

5.  Any horse ever hyped coming from another county except Cananero II or whatever that horse's name was in 1970.

6.  I need to think of some more.

Householder 06 Mar 2009 1:39 AM

Guys, I think some re-handicapping should be done for this race as some important bits of information are being missed. Let me firstly state that Haynesfield will win Saturday's Gotham. The race is between ML favorite Imperial Council and Haynesfield.  Let’s compare both. They both started their racing career a day apart, Imperial Council a January foal and Haynesfield a May foal. In spite of Imperial Council maturity advantage, he has only made three starts compared to his much younger counterpart’s five. Clearly Haynesfield is the structurally sounder of the two. Haynesfield‘s last four races were mere exercise gallops, whereas Imperial Council had to run very hard to win his 3YO debut. In the speed department, handicappers may believe that Imperial Council is faster than Haynesfield.  Let me hasten to highlight the fact that Haynesfield recorded a time of 1:16 1/5 in the deep sand of Belmont Park for his maiden victory.  That was his second start some five months ago Imperial Council recorded a time of 1:16 3/5 for his 3YO debut victory. In the pedigree department the Haynesfield has the advantage. His sire Speightstown had far superior mile speed to Empire Marker. His broodmare line is far superior to that of   Imperial Council. In summation, Haynesfield is better bred, tougher, faster and more seasoned than Imperial Council will defeat him easily.

As for the rest of the field Mr. Fantasy is a sprinter and will not hit the board. His PP reflect that in his last race he was ridden out in fractions of 48, 1:13 with a final time of 1:45 1/5. Haynesfield in hand recorded fractions of 47, 1:11 final time 1:44 2/5.  I Want Revenge should not beat Axel Foley for the minor spots. Axel Foley finished 5 lengths behind I Want Revenge in the Cash Call Futurity after a slow start. The G1 Cash Call Futurity was his third start compared to I Want Revenge’s fifth. It was also his first in the US. In his last start he race with an equipment change (Blinker) that he clearly didn’t relish. I therefore expect the now more seasoned Beverly Hills Cop to get the better of I Want Revenge for third. My Picks

Haynesfield

Imperial Council

Axel Foley

I Want Revenge

Coldfacts 06 Mar 2009 6:16 AM

In Handicapping remember one thing... "Everything counts if it can lead you to the winner." So many times I here things don't matter but in Handicapping everything does.  My favorite angle is what is your horse doing at 6 furlongs.  In the Derby horses are looking at a 1:11.  In these prep races coming up look at what your horse is doing at the 6 furlong pole.  If the jockey's hands are still and the horse is in hand at this point you have a contender.  If your jockey is having to ask the horse at this point how is he or she ever going to make it another 4 furlongs? Pamplemousse posted a 1:10 in his last and every other horse was being asked behind him with little response.  There are some big races coming up and we are now less than 60 days away from the 2009 Kentucky Derby winner.  Good luck and watch your favorite horse at 6 furlongs in the upcoming prep races.  It will lead you to this years Derby winner.

Draynay 06 Mar 2009 7:04 AM

Totally agree that Mr. Fantasy is the real deal. He will win on Saturday. This colt in his glittery debut romped clear of a horse I own as part of a syndicate. I wasn't even focused on my horse. I couldn't keep my eyes of Mr. F. You have mentioned you got a future wager on Mr. F at 75-1. What service did you place that wager through? I would love to get odds anywhere close to that before the Gotham. The best I can find is 45/1. Keep up the great work. Enjoy the blog.

Tyler

Tyler 06 Mar 2009 7:48 AM

 I'm really looking forward to watching Mr. Fantasy tomorrow. I think of all these horses and there are some very good looking prospects he has the potential to shine.

thw_wiz 06 Mar 2009 7:59 AM

Coldfacts: I read your comments on Jan vs May foals but sometimes those May foals are more mature than the Jan ones. Depends on lots of things besides breeding. There's so many things that come into play that it's hard to handicap based on foaling date. It was an interesting read however, I hope your right.

Anybody near Aquduct or bet the inner track on a regular basis? Can you answer any of my questions from last night? (Mar05- 9:23 PM)

One last comment on politics, how do you guys think we feel in Canada cause anything that goes on below the 49th effects us huge!

Wanda 06 Mar 2009 9:45 AM

Coldfacts - look at Mr. F replays especially the second race - not sure how you lable him a sprinter. completely agree with you on Haynesfield - he looks awesome.

SSC 06 Mar 2009 9:47 AM

Axel Foley's last race was a throw-out; his trainer tried blinkers on and it didn't work. Now the blinkers come off. He is certainly bred to like real dirt (Officer over Clever Trick), if you can call the inner track at Aqueduct 'real dirt', since its form frequently doesn't transfer.

Ann in Lexington 06 Mar 2009 11:38 AM

Coldfacts: Mr. Fantasy a sprinter? Take a look at his TWO-TURN allowance win again. Also take a look at his pedigree. And as much stock as you put in splits, remember he broke from post 10, which cost him some time.

As for Haynesfield, his works have been painfully slow and he gets a new rider. Not a good combination. We shall see

Jason Shandler 06 Mar 2009 12:05 PM

I have been waiting with anticipation for the Gotham. I have loved this horse after I saw his 1st race. He does have the look  of a possible star. I have a good feeling he will show the country what he is. GO MR.Fantasy GO!!!

BE109 06 Mar 2009 12:06 PM

Thanks Tyler: I bet Mr. Fantasy at Wynn casino in Vegas last month. As you know, the earlier you bet them the better odds you get. Words spreads quickly. Plus, you always get better odds in Vegas than you do on the online books, and certainly the Derby Future Pool.

Jason Shandler 06 Mar 2009 12:09 PM

Tomorrow looks like the day to calmly walk up to the window, put $100 on Mr. Fantasy to win, $50 on

a Mr. Fantasy/Haynesfield exacta, $10 each on 5-6-3  5-6-7  5-6-8 trifectas, and walk out with about $2000+.

Alan 06 Mar 2009 12:33 PM

Watching that video of all the selections by the Twin Spires 'experts' was hilarious. I couldn't help but laugh as not one of the four even mentioned 'I Want Revenge'! He had traffic trouble in his first three races- yet he never stopped running in any of them. His level of class is far beyond this bunch and if he likes the dirt- he wins this race and pays $12 for every $2 as the NY crowd will shun him at the windows- just as the panel did.

The bet- $500 win on I Want Revenge.    

Bladerunnernyc 06 Mar 2009 12:59 PM

Gee, politics now with the normal Draynay pontificating. Hey, a former clocker, back-up odds maker, along with the other duties at a major track from hot walker to training (I also stopped working for three years and just gambled for a living until I lost about 50K in two weeks which killed my float I had keep going) isn’t going to make predictions yet on Derby hopefuls for a while. (At the moment I like the two Jones horses but not solid on either) If somebody freaks in the Gotham I would have to take them seriously but I am not looking for my First Saturday in May bet here.

marc w 06 Mar 2009 1:07 PM

not sold on Mr.Fantasy[certainly not at 3/1 vs this bunch]...pedigree looks to be ok to get 8-81/2 furlongs...would be hesitant to look beyond that. Love 'Axel @ a price, especially if the track gets a little moisture. His pedigree shouts mud, and I think the pace will be legit.

nickie 06 Mar 2009 1:09 PM

Bladerunnernyc: Thanks in advance for helping bump up the odds on Mr. Fantasy. Much obliged. You can have your synthetic specialist, his "traffic" excuses and his 1-for-6 record. I'll take the undefeated horse who is proven at the distance, on the track and whose speed numbers are much higher. Again, I thank you very much. Any way I can entice you to pit $1000 on I Want Revenge?

Jason Shandler 06 Mar 2009 1:09 PM

Wanda - there is no rain in NY this weekend

the inner track is a mile

Track bias has been even for the last few weeks

SSC 06 Mar 2009 1:11 PM

Jason - how do you like Garcia vs. Migliore on Mr. F. I know Kiaran had a choice.

SSC 06 Mar 2009 1:14 PM

SSC: I like both but I prefer Garcia. The kid is good. You?

Jason Shandler 06 Mar 2009 1:21 PM

ssc: Thanks for the answers, you got any inside info on the field in regards to the track surface? What the heck do they put on it in the winter to keep from freezing, calcium?

Wanda 06 Mar 2009 1:28 PM

Well I have used Garcia before and at times he tends to go to the lead too often. Mig is a bit more patient. having said that its hard to argue with the success Garcia has had and I respect Kiaran's opinion.

SSC 06 Mar 2009 1:31 PM

Well, time for my first 2 cents of the 3 year old season.  I will just come straight out with it.  Thanks for the wisdom.

HAYNESFIELD Jumps out on the lead with MR. FANTASY right off his hind quarter.  I feel this will push (jockey) I WANT REVENGE and make him worthless in the stretch.  Not sure if MR. FANTASY can pass HAYNESFIELD, I will throw in MASALA for my $2 exactas.  I would love to see RUSSELL ROAD do something but I am a little weary of his last calls, they are a little slow for my taste but when your out over +8 it may be a little misleading.  His test at LRL was right in line so I will put these four in a 10 cent exacta and hope it all falls apart with RUSSELL ROAD and MASALA finishing one, two!! lol.  Now for my real bet.  IMPERIAL COUNCIL - hey I loved Empire Maker he made me alot of money, this horse if he has the perfect trip and it is all set up for him, two speed horses (actually not even that fast) to the inside should create a nice lane for him to set up for the perfect spot (would not surprise me, half expect it).  I will go a little heavy on the betting here with him (I need the money, plus isn't this the most exciting time of the year). My $40 goes straight to IMPERIAL COUNCIL.  I will throw a twenty down on the win for IMPERIAL COUNCIL and place for HAYNESFIELD.  Well that is it, see ya monday for the results!

angels00 06 Mar 2009 1:39 PM

wanda - the track has a limestone base which really drains well and is mixed with some chemicals which prevents it from freezing. Track surface should be fair for all. will see.

SSC 06 Mar 2009 1:55 PM

I Want Revenge ran even better at Hollywood which according to many trainers (Baffert included) is the most "dirt like."  This horse simply out classes all based on his run ins with POTN.  I expect huge things out of him this weekend.  Talamo is "crazy" aggressive (e.g., takes a lot of chances) which often results in suspensions.  

Householder 06 Mar 2009 2:04 PM

I wanted to give you thoughts about The Gotham. I am having trouble separating Masala and Imperial Council. As a member of Brisnet I follow their numbers very closely. I looking at Masala form last November at Aqu he broke his maiden with a 95 speed figure then off of a 10 week layoff he comes off the bench at Gulf to run the exact same speed figure. Pletcher ships him back in this spot for some easy graded earnings. I figure numbers wise he is going to take another move forward and win this race. I am going to use him with Imperail Council in exactas. In his first career start he was beaten by Hello Broadway who at this moment is my Derby selection. Imperial Council is another horse ready to tmove forward numbers wise. For third I will use I Want Revenge based on what Mullins and Talamo have said about this horse wanting to race on dirt. Just my thoughts.

The Legend 06 Mar 2009 2:18 PM

Not the Gotham, but there is a video on Utube of The PM in the saddling shed before the San Rafeal and it is very revealing of his temperment.  He has a crowd of people around him and he is oblivous to the race scene.  He is totally relaxed and interacting (in a pet way) with his people.  He also runs extremely relaxed on the lead.  This kind of mind can be a very big asset to a horse.  Time will tell, he sure is interesting.

Kat 06 Mar 2009 2:40 PM

gotta wonder Kat, if this race was before or after Julio went to his "feed" bag[ie; Russian helmet], and did "Pample" get a wiff?!

nickie 06 Mar 2009 3:23 PM

You know whats funny?..those Thoro-graph guys mentioned that according to their calculations,I Want Revenge hasn't improved since his 3rd place finish in his debut last October..really?..looks like I've found yet another alternative to toilet paper!

Anyway,beware of these short priced runners who win easily vs. lesser competition,and then step-up to face tougher..you never know how they'll react to adversity as opposed to having things their own way up-front.  I'm just saying!!  

Thats why I'll take I Want Revenge based on his experience,talent(yeah,I know he's 1for6 but,he's never been worse than 3rd),and his running down the stretch..Don't worry,this "synthetics specialist" will have NO PROBLEM with the surface.They way he's been training signals that he's sitting on a good one. Beware!! also his regular rider is in town for the ride while the other top contenders' regular jockeys have skipped town or been replaced.Tell-tell signs of what they think of their chances.

Slew.em.All 06 Mar 2009 4:36 PM

Al Khali (Velazquez/Pletcher) edges out Stately Character and Atomic Rain with a win in the 8th at Gulfstream. Very slow fractional times throughout the race and a  tepid finish of 151.39 for 1 1/8 miles.  Doesn't appear on the surface that any of these will make a significant impact on the Derby Trail.

Easy Goer 06 Mar 2009 5:49 PM

Coldfacts- That was a good post! You explained your logic in a clear way- and I will also add that you crack me up JS. When the  windows close- I Want Revenge will not be amongst the top 3 favorites- your Mr Fade will be 2nd choice. Mr. Fade is a good horse, however, the 45 half tomorrow will trash him- he fades. The temp will be 60 and the track fast.  

As for what you said about Haynesfield (Coldfacts)....After tomorrow- he will miss running against Milk From Queens and Legal Concent.    

Robert H 06 Mar 2009 6:17 PM

HELLO JASON:

Your knowledge regarding racing is more than I can ever possess,but with Stardom Bound I have no doubt her talent level is above many of the males and could actually do well on Derby day. I've liked her from day one,unlike many on your blog that jumps on and off horses like the weather changing. Also like Pioneer and if Haynesfield wins tomorrow will be interesting. Too many get swept up in beyers and fractions on horses that never make it into the gates on that first Sat. in May.

Mike Relva 06 Mar 2009 6:24 PM

Also JS- I bet here in Houston- we get what the payoff is at the track the race is run at, so I can't help you on Mr. Fade's odds. I will happily take Revenge at 4-1 against these horses- and make no mistake- he will be the 4th choice with the New York crowd.  

Robert H 06 Mar 2009 7:22 PM

Robert H. - I agree with on one thing; you will get 4-1 or more on I Want Revenge. After that, we differ on opinions. Looking forward to seeing who is right. Maybe we'll all be wrong. Perhaps the Giant Ryan will shock the field at 60-1!

Jason Shandler 06 Mar 2009 7:52 PM

For the record Mr. Fantasy, I want Revenge, Russell Road, Naos and Giant Ryan have better odds of learning to fly then they do winning the Gotham.

Draynay 06 Mar 2009 7:57 PM

JS- I'm glad I visited the board- I hardly do these things anymore- I simply follow all the big races and track the horses- I only bet once or twice a month- couple of hundred then it is back to making notes and watching.

I Want Revenge should have won his last against PON- he was fighting that synthetic track; however, his level of class is far beyond anything in this race.

Every race has 'if' this or 'if' that, yet I've watched this horse several times and I think he will love the dirt at Aqueduct.

In regards to his first races- they weren't excuses- it is what it is; however, he is a gifted horse- his first 3 races were all on different tracks and when you watch them, 2 of the 3 had Revenge getting nightmare trips yet he never stopped running.

A true 'excuse' would be all those that say Big Red lost to Prove Out because he was tired when they fail the mention that Prove Out ran 5 races in 5 weeks- so he wasn't? LOL        

I guess if Revenge had poor Legal Consent- who gets abused by Hanes & Fantasy, as well as Queens Milk Farm to run against- he'd be undefeated as well.

Your horse will be finished after a :45 half. I at least see your logic in that you think he won't look back and I say the pressure will cook him- yet that great Twin Spires show cracked me up- 3 of the 4 picking Masala!

Do they get paid for that show?  

Robert H 06 Mar 2009 8:41 PM

For the record Mr. Fantasy, I want Revenge, Russell Road, Naos and Giant Ryan have better odds of learning to fly then they do winning the Gotham.Draynay >>>>>>>>>

Dray- Your wisdom is boundless! And for the record, although I disagree with JS on the race- I wouldn't be surprised at anything-it's racing. That you don't list a selection must mean you are torn between all the other horses-LOL.

Robert H 06 Mar 2009 8:47 PM

Mr. Fantasy is the most expensive colt in the field: $230,000.

Despite having no shot at winning, Giant Ryan may wind up playing a role.  He runs fast opening fractions and I can see him playing the rabbit.  Remember how Brother Bobby fried Lawyer Ron in the Jockey Club Gold Cup back in 2007?  I can see that possibly happening to Haynesfield.

On the other hand, Mr. Fantasy has run the fastest splits, albeit in a 6 furlong race.  But he won that race going away, so there's the possibilty that Mr. Fantasy will run and hide, winning by a large margin.  Remember, he's 2 1/2 points faster than his closest rival according to Jerry Brown.

These are young horses so you never know though.

Alan 06 Mar 2009 9:06 PM

Robert: Your horse took 4 tries to break his maiden. Four. He is far from special. Enough said about him.

Mr. Fantasy might get cooked after a half-mile, he might not. We wont know until they run. But I feel a lot more confident with a horse who has much bigger speed numbers, a pair of wins over the track a win at the distance, is proven on the surface and didnt have to ship cross country. Plus, he is much more visually impressive that your pick. Again, we shall see.

As far as the show, yeah, we each get a thousand per episode. You think that's too much? And for the record, only two of them picked Masala. I dont like him, but he is 5-1 on the ML. What's so bad about that?

Jason Shandler 06 Mar 2009 9:09 PM

I think Pletcher is holding a strong hand in The Gotham! #1 NAOS: By Lion Heart, cost nearly seven times his stud fee as a yearling--I like that! Had eventful trip 1st out--won for fun--I like that! Caught tough stakes...shuffled back/not abused...Pletcher sends him to Phily cuz he needed to retain horse's confidence with a win! Tracked torrid 22 4/5 pace on a very slow track that day---won for fun and I LOVE that! Slowish work--this guy's gonna take back off that "New York Bred" pace we're sure to get--I love that as well....20-1? I think he runs 1-2-3....#3 Masala, Pletcher/Lion Heart again...the wiseguy pick...Marquetry, broodmare sire...he fits as well....#* I Want Revenge--Horses that race on pro ride usually lose 1st time unless they've been working on it--That is fact! This guy works at Hol--He fits on class, no doubt, and will take back/enjoy the crazy pace....as for the NY breds, they look like real good horses, I think they both need the lead/think this shapes up as the two Pletchers and Mullins.....and I love the 20-1 on Naos!...BIG CAP: As I said, 1st time pro riders are at a disadvantage--also wonder about Col John.....think there's a chance for areal bomb! I like two guys: ENTER #7 BLUE EXIT!!(??)...Was ALWAYS well thought of/well bet...Runs big after 90 day layoff (Jan 22)...works eight days later(!) I would usually wait 14-21 days before working my guy after such a huge race--races in Strub 16 days later--should've bounced to the moon yet he ran his career best race! Now gets a month between races--Blue Exit should be ready to run his best race yet Tom!! #4 Monba is my other longshot with a shot! Had NOT worked on pro ride before his comeback, and he ran very well! He'll sit the trip for "Spaghetti Sauce"---one of the great waiters in racing, a latter day Jorge Valasquez--I think he's better than Cowboy Cal...also think Einstein wants no part of that last furlong...Col John is the class....will box Blue Exit/Monba/Col John---what a race/what a card! Of corse I love the grey filly in the SA Oaks! Will box her with #4 Hooh Why....Think Albarado may have a big day/think Pletcher may as well....

Matthew W 06 Mar 2009 9:27 PM

Robert... Do you ever look at a race and the more you study it the more clear it becomes some of the horses in the race are just not that good?  

We all know its racing and anything can  happen but Imperial Council is a neck away from winning at 3 different tracks and his trainer has a gaudy winning % 2nd off a layoff. The son of Empire Maker is built to go long and cheap speed up front will matter little when they turn for home.  I try to imagine another horse winning this race but I just don't see it.  Many including Jason are touting Mr. Fantasy but until he shows me something else all I see is another Taqarub. Play the 7 on top with the 3,4,5,6 underneath.  Here is my pick 4 for the 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th race at Aqueduct.

7th - 2,9 and 11 (the 9 should be winging it on the front end.)

8th - 1 and 9 (if it comes up wet Ah Day wins...end of story)

9th - All on 7 no others necessary.

10th - Take the 1,6, and 7 and cross your fingers.

Have a fun day and I will see you at the IRS window !

Draynay 06 Mar 2009 9:55 PM

JS-

He lost a 750k race by a nose- he is special as he has raced on 4 different tracks- 2 highly graded races and never been worse than 2 3/4 lengths off the wire when it was over in all of his lifetime starts.

PON was off the board twice- It took Stardom Bound 3 races to get her first win, it took the same horse everybody is now pimping- Pampelmousse 3 shots to break his maiden and once was off the board, it took Take the Points 3 shots- off the board once.

I was in total disbelief as to the logic behind what they said regarding Masala. Masala won't even hit the board based on that Take The Points Race.

He is shipping across the country- and this is his first time on dirt- so I will be a fantastic price on him in NY.

I watched the video of his jog on Thursday- he looked great to me. He was breed to run on dirt- tomorrow on dirt he will run!

And win.

Robert H 06 Mar 2009 10:52 PM

Robert... Do you ever look at a race and the more you study it the more clear it becomes some of the horses in the race are just not that good?  

We all know its racing and anything can  happen but Imperial Council >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You know- I use to get a sore throat when people always said how great Easy Goer was- better than SS and blah blah blah- I would always smile and point out that EG lost 5 of his 6 biggest races. We all to some degree look at the race and form our own idiotic opinions; so when I look at Revenge- I see a horse that on the ONLY track he ran on that is SIMILAR to dirt (Hollywood), he missed breaking his maiden because he was crushed and boxed in the stretch, then broke his maiden at 1 1/16th mile in a change of running style while switching leads- then lost by a nose in the $750k Hollywood Futurity. IF these three races were all on the program for Revenge- he would be 7-5 here to win.

Imperial Council is not a better horse- he won't beat Revenge tomorrow and the races you mentioned- he raced against fluff in his last two and I like Shug- but as I said- all of you look at I Want Revenge and you ignore the fact he doesn't like the synthetic surface.

You look at his 3 Hollywood races- he would stand out alone as none of the other horses have finished in the money in a graded race- let alone the Hollywood Futurity.

Robert H 06 Mar 2009 11:07 PM

Robert: None of us claim to be professional handicappers on the show, and even if we were those so-called experts are wrong most of the time anyway. We're just giving our opinions. relax. We're journalists who are having some fun 'cappin races.

Jason Shandler 06 Mar 2009 11:45 PM

Robert: None of us claim to be professional handicappers on the show, and even if we were those so-called experts are wrong most of the time anyway. We're just giving our opinions. relax. We're journalists who are having some fun 'cappin races.>>>>>>>>>>

JS- I said were all idiots at this-even the self proclaimed 'pros', Beyer once ripped apart Slew then ate his words, so it's all good. I was just bustin' chops about how NOBODY even mentioned I Want Revenge in the entire show- of all four opinions, hence I asked; 'Do they get paid' joking around as I could never look at this race and NOT even mention Revenge! If we only looked at his Hollywood Races- on the only surface similar to dirt that he has been on- he would be 7 to 5 here, instead he's probably 9-2 with the NYC crowd.

The only way to win in the game is to love the sport- I also only bet twice a month tops and only on major races- I'm more into the history of the sport now.

Still- he will prevail tomorrow.      

Robert H 07 Mar 2009 12:03 AM

He's too slow Robert. Look at the speed numbers. They aren't everything, but must be considered. He has too many other negatives that you'r not seeing as well - first time on dirt, jock that doesnt know the track, ships cross country, doesn't have that extra gear, won't be close enough to the pace, etc. Only thing he has going for him is a class edge. That won't matter when he's 8 lengths back at the top of the lane at a speed-favoring track. He better have Stardom Bound-type kick to get home from there.

Best of luck anyway. Can't I talk you into taking your wife out to dinner instead of throwing the money away? lol

Jason Shandler 07 Mar 2009 12:45 AM

You Tube the CASH CALL and watch IWANTREVENGE split horses along the rail in deep stretch.  Pretty good move for a young horse and a pretty gutsy move by a young rider.  I'm not buying that he is going to lay down on the track simply because it's New York.  

Householder 07 Mar 2009 2:03 AM

He's too slow Robert. Look at the speed numbers. They aren't everything, but must be considered. He has too many other negatives that you'r not seeing as well - first time on dirt, jock that doesnt know the track, ships cross country>>>>>>>>>>>

I Want Revenge has only run on ONE track similar to dirt-Hollywood. He loved the surface and if his form was only those three races- he would be heavily favored here. I never said he didn't have several hills to climb- they all do, yet it all comes down to this- if he loves the dirt- 9 to 2 will be a gift, if he doesn't- I hope it's your horse that wins. I saw the speed figures; I know the track bias and the cross referencing of varients and I hear where you are coming from-but I don't think that Mr. Fantasy would have anything close to those numbers if he was running on that Santa Anita strip- the same is true for Haynes.    

Revenge will be third by the half mile- mark my words- ur boy Fantasy and Hanes will rip right at it- I don't think either of them can prevail tomorrow if they don't get the lead. Revenge will sit off them and by the top of the stretch- he does the same run he did in the Hollywood Futurity-only he wins. He is sharp- his works are incredible and his trainer has a solid record shipping around the country.

Robert H 07 Mar 2009 2:29 AM

Mr. Fantasy Has the best DI in here & that will show when he win by 5 later today. Good luck All

KyLou 07 Mar 2009 2:41 AM

Take it to the bank, Mr. Fantasy will prevail. His numbers tower over the rest of the field and he has plenty of room for improvement. The trainer is so confident he drew out of a hat to see who got the ride when Eddie P. bolted for the Wesr Coast to brown- nose Pletcher.

slyder 07 Mar 2009 8:29 AM

Robert ... I Want Revenge may be a tough customer but he has proven himself a loser again and again.  He had to ship all the way across the country for a softer spot and ended up having to face a horse like Imperial Council. 6 races 1 win? Sorry but I am looking for a horse heading to the derby and he ain't it.

Draynay 07 Mar 2009 8:35 AM

Hey Jason it's getting serious! Have fun guys, I'll read it all when I get home tonight.

Oh by the way where are you home boys? Brad, Big, Jordan?

Wanda 07 Mar 2009 9:33 AM

Slyder--Oh really? Or did he go West to win The Big Cap with Monba? Also I like Imp Council but they're rushing him for graded earnings--I mean he comes back three weeks ago---runs big...then they throw two works in and ship him 1000 mi---for his first ever two turn race, and, oh by the way it's a graded race, thank you very much! My money's on Pletcher/Mullins but ya gotta love it! Triple Crown Trail! Big Cap! All the fixins! Yayya!

Matthew W 07 Mar 2009 9:38 AM

K Lou...where your figs comin from? I'm not contesting, but I see nothing that supports your claim other than some "brilliant" numbers, which would account for his precocity. Help me.

nickie 07 Mar 2009 9:45 AM

Dray, I Want Revenge shipped to NY to run on dirt not looking for a soft spot. The Gothem is a lot tougher than anyting he had to face in California

Teaser 07 Mar 2009 10:27 AM

About Oaks...What a Pear may be a lock. Better than Stardom Bound. Never been headed once she had the lead. Will not let another horse get by. Jockey never has had to get into her. Keeps getting better

each race. Really well bred for distance.

GENE F 07 Mar 2009 11:31 AM

Gene F.:

she's never had a filly like Stardom Bound coming at her..The Silver Bullet!!

Slew.em.All 07 Mar 2009 1:09 PM

Jason,that was Awesome..hectic but,Awesome!!

I'd rather have it sloppy @ Aqueduct than the way it's playing so far!..but still,I Want Revenge should win.I'm thinking he'll show more tactical speed today,plus tail-gating Talamo won't let them get too far ahead..This I know: the splits will be hot!..question being, who will "try" and rate? Haynesefield or Mr.Fantasywants togotoky.?  Either way they'll both be on the engine where both are comfortable...compromising their chances.  Here's hoping they soak the inner track prior to the Gotham..Cheers!!

Slew.em.All 07 Mar 2009 1:48 PM

It was fun Slew. Thanks for joining in.

Track is playing all speed at AQ today. They wont catch him!

Jason Shandler 07 Mar 2009 3:13 PM

I do Neddy.

Jason Shandler 07 Mar 2009 3:34 PM

Reality Check.  We came into your house and beat you!  Time to take the OF's, Dunkirks, Mr. Fantasy and whatever other pipe dream is in the works off the top ten list and start adding some Cali horses who have done nothing but run well.

1.  Pioneer of the Nile

2.  I Want Revenge

3.  The Pamplemousse/Stardom Bound

4.  Chocolate Candy

5.  Whatever other 3 year old Allowance Horse who has won by 10 at Santa Anita Recently.

6.  The second/third/and fourth place finishers in the Santa Anita Derby.

Householder 07 Mar 2009 4:49 PM

draynay,

Guess I Want Revenge should take up flying too. You said he had a better chance of learning to fly than win. I nailed it right on the head. Hope you won't be so quick to bash my picks in the future but after observing you I'm sure there will be some excuse you picked the wrong one while I nailed it.

gw_bushwacker 07 Mar 2009 5:01 PM

BOO-YAH!!!  

What did I tell ya'll! The proven Class has prevailed.He sure looked Damn Good didn't he?..told you tail-gating Talamo wouldn't let them get too far ahead,but it surprised me he was that close-up.I knew he was sitting on a good race with his fantastic works out here before being shipped.He took to dirt like a duck to water..remember they're not breeding for synthetics just yet people.Expect the same from the rest of the West Coast Contingent...NONE of the also-rans from the Gotham will return for the Wood Memorial,with the exception of IC,but even he is a bit iffy after getting dusted by the NEW KY.Derby Favorite! I WANT REVENGE

Well Jason theres always the 1mile Derby Trial for Mr.Fadesaway,err..Fantasy,if he ever recovers from being handed his head like that. Brutal,simply Brutal!

Mike Relva: where you at? I got something for you.    I'm Rich B!%#h!!  It's Raining $100 dollar bills Baby!!!!

Slew.em.All 07 Mar 2009 5:08 PM

Nice to stick to your guns Robert H.  I like the Hollywood to Dirt angle.  POTN has run well over it as has Chocolate Candy.  Baffert swears it's the most "dirt like." On to the San Felipe Jason!

Householder 07 Mar 2009 5:08 PM

Congrats Revenge... it is sweet.  Now the east MUST take us seriously here on the left!  OK, Draynay, how do you like your crow prepared??  

helsbelles 07 Mar 2009 5:17 PM

Dang, a lot of people on here are gonna have to eat words.

IWR looked good, and I think Imperial Council took a step forward.

Tiznowbaby 07 Mar 2009 5:21 PM

nay nay,

I must have missed "the coming out party" for Imperial Council. After seeing you bash time and time again Derby hopefuls running 1:13 6f times and 1:37 miles what do you have to say for Imperial Council's 1:14.4 6f and 1:38.2 mile? If the 1:13's and 1:37's are so slow where doeas that put Imperial Council? For now it puts him light years behind many many others. Better luck next pick. LMAO.

draynot 07 Mar 2009 5:40 PM

As I said eight times above- he would win the race and I do appreciate the panel which never once mentioned his name, as well as Draynay giving me a speech about how to look at a race- hilarious.

Robert H 07 Mar 2009 5:46 PM

Congrats to Robert, Slew and everyone who nailed the Gotham. You guys were right on and I was wrong. I Want Revenge ran a huge race.

Mr. Fantasy was no match for the winner but didnt run a bad race. I thought Garcia was absolutely at fault for not holding 2nd. He left a lot of graded earnings on the table. Anyway, I'll do a recap blog post tomorrow so you winner can gloat some more!

Jason Shandler 07 Mar 2009 5:56 PM

Although I said several times that Mr. Fade would......fade-lol, I did not expect that horse to be so empty after such a slow half mile.

As I said- I only bet two or three times a month- that win netted me 3k. Now on to the second play for the month- the Louisiana Derby!

Flying Pegasus baby- I love that horse just as much as Revenge. Pegasus will win the Louisiana Derby- that horse showed me a ton in his last as well as the Futurity.  

Robert H 07 Mar 2009 6:24 PM

Congrats to all who picked IWR !

Mr.Ruffian 07 Mar 2009 6:43 PM

TO SLEW.em.ALL

I was way off,I admit it!

Mike Relva 07 Mar 2009 7:01 PM

Shhh.  Don't tell anyone.  We also have a 3 year old filly who just picked up her 5th straight grade 1 win and an older female who had a perfect 9 for 9 season.  Perhaps these synthetics are not so bad after all.  

Householder 07 Mar 2009 7:29 PM

IWANTREVENGE...was that 10 or 11 lengths in the end?  It was kind of hard to tell.

Householder 07 Mar 2009 7:48 PM

Householder: It's Ok to be feeling good, but I wouldn't get too cocky. Your Cali horses have been abysmal in Derbys for a looong time. They still have a lot to prove. It's still very early in the game.

Jason Shandler 07 Mar 2009 7:56 PM

Jason - now I wish we had Mig up on Mr. F instead of GArcia - he gave away 2nd - we were clearly the second best horse in that race.

SCC 07 Mar 2009 8:16 PM

Jason FYI - Mr. F came out of the race well, scoped him and he was fine. Kiaran was really quite pleased with the effort. It was only his third career start and being a late May foal we were worried he may not have been ready, but we lost to a great looking horse and felt we could move forward off of that effort - thoughts?

SCC 07 Mar 2009 8:25 PM

SCC: I'll give my full thoughts in my blog post tomorrow, but here are my quick thoughts.

A) You're so right. Alan cost Mr. Fantasy 2nd, and a lot of graded earnings, by not getting everything out of him at the wire. Inexcusable. This is Derby season and he has to be aware of what's at stake.

B) I was a little surprised that he got so tired in deep stretch, but I guess it was to be expected when facing pressure for the first time. I guess rating went out the window when Haynesfield didnt break well. The fractions were soft so i thought he'd have more.

C) Give I Want Revenge credit. He is much better than I thought. He was much the best.

D)I'm optimistic Mr. F will improve in the Wood.

Glad he came out OK. Hopefully he learned a lot from the race. Thanks for the update

Jason Shandler 07 Mar 2009 8:41 PM

Mr. Fade would have to go beyond improving if he wanted to be in the winners circle at the end of the Wood. His collapse in the stretch after a very moderate pace would not lead me to look at him in any positive regard in graded races unless they included his past victims.

Can he improve- of course......yet any thought that Mr. Fade can win the Wood is a joke- getting third will be his goal based on that race.

I would have taken Shimatoree in any of those Aqueduct races over Mr Fade- Haynes or IC. Now it's on to the Louisiana Derby!

singing that new orleans favorite <<<little liza jane>>>

and Flying my way home  

Robert H 07 Mar 2009 9:19 PM

OK, hindsight is that The Gotham proved who belongs on the Ky Derby Trail & who doesn't.The only one I can see going on with it is IC,ONLY because he was running at the end..He still has No chance in the Wood though.

Jason,your right Garcia should have held the place.But, What for?.He's Not a Derby horse anyways..set him free! plus him finishing 3rd made the Tri-fecta sweeter!!  :)

Stardom Bound did what a Champion does..Win! Barely! but she won. Speaking of cocky.Mike Smith is getting a little too  cocky/confident with The SilverBullet's greatness.Going 10wide and waiting for room won't cut-it against the Males..She's a Stone Cold Killer though.Refuses to loose..I read a Lil tidbit on Frankel stating that he'd rather point toward the KY Oaks if it were up to him..We'll get a clear picture after the San Felipe on who's running in the SA Derby.

Slew.em.All 07 Mar 2009 9:23 PM

Robert and Slew: It was his third race. You are being too harsh. Heck, in his third start IWR was still trying to break his maiden- and couldnt! Horses improve.

You guys are cocky now and deserve to gloat with your win. But its a long season my friends. Humble pie never tastes good...

Jason Shandler 07 Mar 2009 9:42 PM

If you handicap it backwards, you'd ask who would be good enough to win the Cash Call GR1 Futurity and it's I Want Revenge--the others had not even faced GR3 types! Still, I was impressed with Shug's guy Imperial Council--he was somewhat rushed into this race/there's no other way to spin it---and he was really finishing/AND he got 2nd $$!! But Einstein! He showed me something today--I didn't think he could get the distance--a weak field? Perhaps/probably...But it was his first on pro ride...note how I Want Revenge couldn't win on pro ride--if you don't train on it--it's tough and I give Einstein his due! Methinks Mullins will be back to NY! Am really looking forward to their next races--as well as Quality Road and Beethoven and POTN and that favorite guy of mine right now, The Pamplemousse.....

Matthew W 07 Mar 2009 9:44 PM

I seem to have been forgotten.

A couple of days ago - I said on this blog that I Want Revenge was the best and he would win -

He was and he did...

West coast horses shouldn't be considered 2nd class...

AnneM 07 Mar 2009 9:48 PM

Frankel is right! Frankel is a true horseman---MAYBE she can beat males...but who needs to know/it's not right to send her v males...no way does she catch Pamplemousse at Santa Anita--NO WAY! DOESN'T increase her value one penny--don't do it....let Stardom Bound and Zenyatta inhale the fillies and mares--cuz that's what they are! By the looks of things, Stardom Bound will have plenty of tough races v her own sex...anyway the boys are NICE this year! I Want Revenge looked a nice horse in the eye today--at HIS place/first time dirt--Jeff Mullins has a Derby horse, no doubt! Thy NY bred lost his get'up'n'go at the 3/16 pole--he does not look like a two turn horse as he lost it right away as they straightened out--unless he bled, he's probably a one turn horse but a nice one....  

Matthew W 07 Mar 2009 9:54 PM

"MR FADE" is BUSH! Your horse won--good for you! But this is horse racing my friend, 'taint no one here or anywhere that thinks you have been right all the time--you won, that's all! I Want Revenge won the race--act like you've been there before!

Matthew W 07 Mar 2009 9:58 PM

Lost in the shuffle & awe-inspiring performance by I Want Revenge...Imperial Council!  This horse keeps doing better and better things EVERY time he runs!  Watch Prado jump back on this horse and keep him closer to the pace.  Read Maragh's comments:

Sequoia Racing’s Imperial Council, a son of Empire Maker   trained by Shug McGaughey, also turned in a good effort in his first graded stakes test and first try around two turns.

“This is a really talented horse that is going to appreciate more distance,” said Maragh, who rode Imperial Council for the first time. "He’s the best 3-year-old I’ve ridden in New York. He galloped out tremendous.”

craftylord 07 Mar 2009 10:29 PM

"MR FADE" is BUSH! Act like you've been there before!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Matt- Bush has what to do with anything I posted? Take your medication before you post next time you throw something my way! When JS said I could take my wife out to dinner instead of throwing away the money (Large Win bet on Revenge) I took it in good fun and answered in kind. Your post complaining on what I said after the race is hilarious- like you loving the 2-5 shot that was all out to beat a weak field in the Oaks.

 

Robert H 07 Mar 2009 11:23 PM

JS- My friend- cocky was when you said I should save my money betting on Revenge and take my wife to dinner. Saying that Mr F has no chance in the Wood isn't being cocky- HE DOESNT!

As I said before- I look at Revenge and see his Hollywood races- the only surface that was similar to dirt and that he took well to- you can see whatever you like in regards to his first win.

You can keep Mr. Fantasy all year after that fade he did in the stretch. He quit badly today and showed that when he is engaged- he can't handle it right now.

Please bet everything you have on him if he runs in the Wood- there is no way in hell he is winning it.

THE BEST he could do is something like the Peter Pan Stakes against minor horses in the future.

Robert H 07 Mar 2009 11:35 PM

Robert I give you credit and you helped me hit a 50 dollar Exacta.  Your revolving speeches got me thinking and I emailed Jason last night that I was going to box I Want Revenge with Imperial Council.  That ticket and Ah Day are the only two I cashed all day and turned a negative day into a positive day.  Thank you and I look forward to the two of them meeting again in the Wood.  I have a feeling it will be a much different race.

Draynay 07 Mar 2009 11:52 PM

It was all in good fun Robert. I dont take it too seriously. Again, nice job on your hit. There are 4 to 'cap next weekend. Looking forward to breaking those down next week.

Jason Shandler 08 Mar 2009 12:05 AM

Jason:  Looong time since a California horses ran well in Kentucky??  2005(Giacomo). And Brother Derek's 4th in 2006 was actually quite remarkable.

Lion Heart and Imperialism 2nd and 3rd in 2004.

Peace Rules wintered in Cali before shipping to win the Lousisana Derby and Blue Grass and then run 3rd in the Derby in 2003.

Proud Citizen ran poorly in the SA Derby, won the Lexington and ran 2nd in Kentucky in 2002.

Congaree won an allowance at Santa Anita, shipped to NYC and won the Wood and then ran 3rd in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness while Santa Anita Derby winner Point Given took the Preakness and Belmont.

Horses that wintered in California won every Derby from 1996 through 2000: Silver Charm, Real Quiet, and Charismatic all ran in the Santa Anita Derby. In 2000, Fusaichi Pegasus won the San Felipe and then shipped to take down the Wood before his score in Kentucky.  And Grindstone, the 96' Kentucky Derby winner, went through his conditions in Calfornia during the winter before shipping out to win the Lousiana Derby and running 2nd in Arkansas. And the horse who ran 2nd to Grindstone in Kentucky was Santa Anita Derby winner Cavonnier.

Considering that California horses make up about 25% or less of any Kentucky Derby field, I'd say that the above list of accomplishments is fairly solid.  The poor record of California horses the last 3 years reminds me of the period 1990-1995, when the best finish by a Cali horse was Best Pal's 2nd in 91'.  Of course, right before that period, Cali horses had won the previous 4 Derbys(Ferdinand, Alysheba,Winning Colors,Sunday Silence).

GunBow 08 Mar 2009 3:32 AM

Slew Em All,

IC was running at the end because he did no running in the first mile at all. A 1:38 and change mile is crawling just ask draynay. If he makes it to the Derby and runs those type of fractions he's got no chance. In fact I Want Revenge finished just as fast in his last 1/4 as IC and maybe a tick faster.

SA Oaks:

Stardom Bound lost some luster and I wonder if they will re-think her options. Sure she was 4 wide leaving the stretch (see drf chart)but so was Third Dawn (who was bumped around in deep stretch) and Nan had to wait in mid-stretch while boxed in and would have won by open lengths if not for that. It was a gutsy performance by Stardom Bound who refused to lose but in reality she was clearly not the only horse who had trouble, others had just as much or more. A true champion finds a way to win and nobody can take that away from her. Hey maybe we should all blame the jock for making the race so close. Isn't that how it usually goes when things don't turn out as expected?

gw_bushwacker 08 Mar 2009 7:41 AM

draynay,

Why aren't you bashing your Imperial Council all over for running such slow fractions? Does it only apply when it's not your pick? What a hypocrite.

slyder 08 Mar 2009 7:43 AM

If there are any silver-linings to Mr. Fantasy's performance, one would be he knocked almost a second off his time from the previous race at the same distance (that he won by 8 1/2 lengths).  Another would be he was facing stakes horses for the first time and beat 4 of the 5 in the field.  I Want Revenge had run in 2 prominant stakes races prior to this one, finishing 3rd and 2nd, and Mr. Fantasy took him to task for most of the race.  It was the first time Mr. Fantasy was seriously challenged and maybe we can chalk this one up to a learning experience.  Remember, Curlin finished 3rd in the Derby when facing Street Sense and hard Spun for the first time.  Plus, I Want Revenge ran a ridiculously fast time yesterday, way above anything else he's ever done (granted, it was his first race on dirt and perhaps he really is THAT GOOD, but I doubt it).  Finally, the horses are going to meet again in the $750,000 Wood Memorial on April 4th.  Hopefully, Mr. Fantasy can get his revenge against I Want Revenge.

Alan 08 Mar 2009 10:15 AM

GunBow: There is one California winner in that whole group you mentioned, and he was a fluke. I don't care about 2nd, 3rd or 4th place finishes. Give me winners.

Jason Shandler 08 Mar 2009 10:35 AM

Revenge ran a very nice race and the others are all second level horse’s.  A lot of people will be adding I Want Revenge to their dirty list.

I hate to bring up old news but Curlin didn’t take hold of the track in the Derby until the 1/8th pole, and if he did and he had a better rider we would have had the 12th Triple Crown Winner. Curlin was spinning his wheels til the 1/8 pole and Robby “Plate in the Head” Albarado didn’t give Curlin the best of rides in most of his races and still won.  Curlin had to be on the outside of horses, just look at the Belmont, if Curlin was on the outside he beats Rags, same with Brown, I think they were both rail-a-phobic.

Gary 08 Mar 2009 12:00 PM

that's why we got Pari mutuel system[the French gave us something besides good wine]...inner dirt winner going forward to main track, we'll see...but I for one want no part in what will surely be an underlay @ 5/2! The race looked like a 2 speed number to me...the chart bears this out. Shug's runner will move forward off his race. In my opine, FOY[although one turn] got my attention...Gotham...not so much.

nickie 08 Mar 2009 12:35 PM

Robert--No, calling the losing horse "Mr Fade", to pump your ego up--IS BUSH-LEAGUE all the way! Ya thought I meant W? No, guy, I meant getting mileage outta rubbing people's noses in it--is BUSH! Get it now?

Matthew W 08 Mar 2009 12:37 PM

TO SLYDER:

What were you saying days ago about "taking it to the bank on Mr. Fantasy" ? Guess that didn't work out,like Haynesfield didn't for me!

Mike Relva 08 Mar 2009 3:27 PM

Sorry JASON you don't get to put an asterisk by Giacomo.  We don't want to go down the "Lil E Tee" road and say how many derby winners were "flukes."  The "flukes" far out number the favorites on derby day.  Besides it was not too long ago that everyone put a line through the Wood Memorial Winner.  In the past 20 years how many winners has that produced?  2005 my man that's hardly a drought and now we have "magic dirt."  

Householder 09 Mar 2009 1:30 AM

Matthew W

got the DI from Bloodhorse pedigree. SO much for that. We will see on durby day Mr Fan still has a good chane to be there, Maybe.

KyLou 09 Mar 2009 1:57 AM

The Wood looks pretty dead as far as Debry Winners.  We have Fusaichi Pegasus who won the San Felipe before shipping in.  Sounds like a good angle.  Santa Anita to the Wood onto win the Derby.

Householder 09 Mar 2009 2:16 AM

How did this become a West Coast vs. Least..err..East Coast thing?.

Look,there's Always going to be that East Coast Bias angle regarding horse racing or any sport for that matter.Those Yankees have remained sour ever since Swaps whipped their Wonder horse. It's in their DNA!..and our weather is a whole lot better too. Jealousy has reared it's ugly head again.  lol

Slew.em.All 09 Mar 2009 1:17 PM

mike relva,

mr. fantasy may not have won but I did take him all the way to the bank. I played a $6 super that cost me $48. IWR and Mr. F. over/IWR, Mr. F and IP over/the same over/ Masala and Axel Foley. It returned me 1,054.20 so i'm not complaining.

slyder 09 Mar 2009 4:04 PM

Matt- I gladly exchanged pun with JS and took shots from him- and gave him some in return as it is all in good fun. You might want to learn something about being diplomatic when a conversation doesn't conern you, or when you want to jump in, don't pretend you know somebody and only read the words that please you- it doesn't make you any better and I believe it is your ego that needs feeding.

Had JS been right and Revenge was off the board- he could have in every right repeated what he said- the horse was too slow, Mr Slow if his name was Mr Revenge- that I have to explain all this to you is beyond kiddie league.

Robert H 09 Mar 2009 5:43 PM

Anybody know what happened to Ryehill Dreamer.....Looked for him to run in the SHAM or the San Felipe.......

Jerry 09 Mar 2009 11:23 PM

So can we please have a moratorium on "This horse (Mr. Fantasy or Dunkirk or whatever) is the second coming of Hindoo" after a maiden or n1x win? (For the uneducated, Hindoo won 18 in a row as a 3yo in 1881.)

Ann in Lexington 10 Mar 2009 11:41 AM


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